The so called "promised land"

[Leveller]

3 minutes ago, poland_exile said:

I would suggest you've essentially misunderstood the spirit of the post. 

There is a very valid cause for concern that we would lose 'our club' if we became a premiership mainstay. The premiership is hardly known for fostering the raw side to football that many of us love. If anything, it strips away identity and tradition and nurtures sameness and uniformity. Without answering for Wolf, and without wishing to intellectualize too much, i'd maybe treat this more as a moral debate rather than jumping to the assumption that he and those of his thinking want the club to do badly! 

If the raw side is bunches of young chavs trying to start a running battle during the match, you can keep it.

[New Dazzler]

I think anyone who thinks that us achieving promotion is a bad thing needs to seriously ask themselves why they bother supporting our club, and they would be better off going to watch the Gas or Torquay or some other no-hopers.  To not see Premier League football as our target is masochistic beyond belief, presumably they loved our crap 3 months of poor form last season when we went from 2nd in the table to also rans in the play-offs, that was their idea of football heaven so we didn't end up dumped in the best League in the World!

I am sure Watford, Bournemouth, Palace, Cardiff, Burnley, Brighton, Southampton fans etc go to each match praying their team will lose and get relegated to the promised land of the Championship!!

If you really don't want us to go up then just give up and don't set foot in Ashton Gate ever again!  Or go in the away end and cheer like mad when the away team scores!  How can any genuine fan hate success?

 

 

 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

3 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

I think anyone who thinks that us achieving promotion is a bad thing needs to seriously ask themselves why they bother supporting our club, and they would be better off going to watch the Gas or Torquay or some other no-hopers.  To not see Premier League football as our target is masochistic beyond belief, presumably they loved our crap 3 months of poor form last season when we went from 2nd in the table to also rans in the play-offs, that was their idea of football heaven so we didn't end up dumped in the best League in the World!

I am sure Watford, Bournemouth, Palace, Cardiff, Burnley, Brighton, Southampton fans etc go to each match praying their team will lose and get relegated to the promised land of the Championship!!

If your really don't want us to go up then just give up and don't set foot in Ashton Gate ever again!  How can any genuine fan hate success?

 

 

 

You've completely missed the point I'm trying to make. I don't see the premier league as a fair league, so trying to debate why that would be fun. 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

31 minutes ago, Wanderingred said:

So essentially, you are saying that you want us to start losing games?

Never said that. Think for a second about what the premier league actually is, is it actually a competition. 

[RumRed]

I understand the point totally, and hate the overwankery about the prem.

However I’m of the age where I missed out on the 1st division but was just old enough to see the plummet to the 4th. 

Be nice to be up there for once in my watching lifetime.

[BobBobSuperBob]

10 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

I think anyone who thinks that us achieving promotion is a bad thing needs to seriously ask themselves why they bother supporting our club, and they would be better off going to watch the Gas or Torquay or some other no-hopers.  To not see Premier League football as our target is masochistic beyond belief, presumably they loved our crap 3 months of poor form last season when we went from 2nd in the table to also rans in the play-offs, that was their idea of football heaven so we didn't end up dumped in the best League in the World!

I am sure Watford, Bournemouth, Palace, Cardiff, Burnley, Brighton, Southampton fans etc go to each match praying their team will lose and get relegated to the promised land of the Championship!!

If you really don't want us to go up then just give up and don't set foot in Ashton Gate ever again!  Or go in the away end and cheer like mad when the away team scores!  How can any genuine fan hate success?

 

 

 

Some big opinions there

go and watch the gas ?

Give your skull a wobble

 

Of course the eventual aim of the club has to be top flight football 

But I think a lot of fans would find a lot they’ll don’t like,  and it not quite what they dreamt about 

 

[WolfOfWestStreet]

13 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

I think anyone who thinks that us achieving promotion is a bad thing needs to seriously ask themselves why they bother supporting our club, and they would be better off going to watch the Gas or Torquay or some other no-hopers.  To not see Premier League football as our target is masochistic beyond belief, presumably they loved our crap 3 months of poor form last season when we went from 2nd in the table to also rans in the play-offs, that was their idea of football heaven so we didn't end up dumped in the best League in the World!

I am sure Watford, Bournemouth, Palace, Cardiff, Burnley, Brighton, Southampton fans etc go to each match praying their team will lose and get relegated to the promised land of the Championship!!

If you really don't want us to go up then just give up and don't set foot in Ashton Gate ever again!  Or go in the away end and cheer like mad when the away team scores!  How can any genuine fan hate success?

 

 

 

Go watch the gas? My family put their heart and soul into this club and have done for years, don't suggest that's a suitable alternative for me.

It is possible to debate the pro and cons of top flight football without that kind of response. 

[Dr Balls]

Like it or loathe it, the Premier League is the top division in this country. Yes it's unbalanced and possibly even unfair, but then most of the major European leagues are these days, for which in part you can blame UEFA and the Champions League as much as the Premier League. Plus you still get upset results, like midweek with Newcastle coming back to beat Man City & Bournemouth tonking Chelsea.

Clubs can make it work and become established there, and there is no reason to think that that wouldn't be possible in the future. Yes any fixture changes between Saturdays and Sundays would be annoying, but we would hardly be top of Sky's list for live games, so most home games would still be 3pm on a Saturday. As it is, our next 2 home league games have been rearranged such that I can no longer attend, so it's not exactly a unique situation.

[RumRed]

3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Some big opinions there

go and watch the gas ?

Give your skull a wobble

 

Of course the eventual aim of the club has to be top flight football 

But I think a lot of fans would find a lot they’ll don’t like,  and it not quite what they dreamt about 

 

I agree bob, double edged sword.  You want the success but it’s going to come at a price.  

However we’re pretty much a prem team in match day experience now anyway so I’m not sure how much difference it would make.

Ashton Gate is so different now, I only realised  how different when going with mates to Crawley and Worthing.

The Gate is like a Take That concert vs watching a bunch a blokes in the local boozer playing Iron Maiden covers.  Which is more fun?

[WolfOfWestStreet]

9 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Some big opinions there

go and watch the gas ?

Give your skull a wobble

 

Of course the eventual aim of the club has to be top flight football 

But I think a lot of fans would find a lot they’ll don’t like,  and it not quite what they dreamt about 

 

Out of likes (not paid my bill) but you do always seem to get where im coming from bob

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Id bloody love a salary cap. In every league, that would sort the coaches from the blaggers.

[Cyderman]

I remember a lengthy thread similar to this one when we were heading to the playoffs under GJ. I then remember having slightly bitter memories of it just over five years later when we were bottom of league one.

I totally get how a hypothetical future spent constantly in the top half of the Championship might appeal, but the reality is no one stays in this league forever, and I’d much rather exit it going up than down. With a sensible Burnley-esque approach of course.

[New Dazzler]

6 minutes ago, RumRed said:

I understand the point totally, and hate the overwankery about the prem.

However I’m of the age where I missed out on the 1st division but was just old enough to see the plummet to the 4th. 

Be nice to be up there for once in my watching lifetime.

I was 20 when we got promoted to the top flight and loved most (not every!) minute of us competing with the best in the land for 4 years.  I actually think that if we got ourselves in the Prem soon we would have every chance of "doing a Bournemouth" as these days you basically have the top 6, plus Everton who, for legal reasons, can never get relegated, and the rest, ie 13 other teams, are clubs that, with the right management/infrastructure and a bit of luck can make it work, but also risk taking a tumble with parachute payments.  If we can't have the ambition to even take that on because we might get the odd hammering (let's not forget that Bournemouth hammered Chelsea 4-0 the other night) then we might as well just hope we never achieve anything and start investing our money and passion in something non-competitive!

Does it really matter, as the Original Poster made a case for, that its not a "fair league" (whatever that means), are we so highly principled that we want to avoid being in it?

[RumRed]

3 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

I was 20 when we got promoted to the top flight and loved most (not every!) minute of us competing with the best in the land for 4 years.  I actually think that if we got ourselves in the Prem soon we would have every chance of "doing a Bournemouth" as these days you basically have the top 6, plus Everton who, for legal reasons, can never get relegated, and the rest, ie 13 other teams, are clubs that, with the right management/infrastructure and a bit of luck can make it work, but also risk taking a tumble with parachute payments.  If we can't have the ambition to even take that on because we might get the odd hammering (let's not forget that Bournemouth hammered Chelsea 4-0 the other night) then we might as well just hope we never achieve anything and start investing our money and passion in something non-competitive!

Does it really matter, as the Original Poster made a case for, that its not a "fair league" (whatever that means), are we so highly principled that we want to avoid being in it?

I was born 2 days too late for the promotion,  I blame my mother.

[reformed_red]

44 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Never said that. Think for a second about what the premier league actually is, is it actually a competition. 

It is a competition. 

No different to the Championship. Look what Wolves did last year.

Any club in any division can get the luck of the draw and find a sugardaddy owner. Dare say Birmingham, Forest even Villa have spent money and failed. 

Then look at Everton, massive spend last season to get nowhere higher. Really only Chelsea have tanked the money to get a return; Man City have spent but it’s clear they’re building something too.

So where does that leave us? Well - I genuinely think we’re building something too. Every club can have a “blueprint” and try to forge “DNA” but I honestly think we’re going about things the right way. There’s a plan at City. It was very interesting that SL said we got promoted to the Champ a year early. That says to me there’s a plan and a strategy. I think we will get there, one day. And stay.

[New Dazzler]

21 minutes ago, RumRed said:

I was born 2 days too late for the promotion,  I blame my mother.

Haha, sorry about that but at least you were alive for 4 years of top flight football with Bristol City.  Funnily enough, when we had the brilliant celebrations on the pitch and the pubs after the fantastic occasion of achieving promotion when beating Pompey, I noticed a little gang called the "Wolves of West Street promotion haters" holding a little protest on the pitch with placards such as "we wish we were Portsmouth, they're going down!" and "Lucky, Lucky Pompey".  Seriously I do not get why any genuine City fan would have say, gone to Wembley in 2008 for the play off final against Hull and cheered because we lost!

[Up The City!]

2 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

4 fewer home games.

Fewer Saturday games. 

Higher prices. 

Prima Donnas.

Olympic standard diving. 

Here today, gone tomorrow fans. 

 

 

This. 

By default our season ticket prices reduce over night simply because there is less games. Also on top of that there would likely be an increase due to being in the Prem. I'm gonna save this post for the day we do get there and we release ticket prices because there will be a huge shit storm on here.

8 less games a season isn't very appealing but I suppose it's a trade off of being able to visit places like Old Trafford etc.

[RumRed]

14 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

Haha, sorry about that but at least you were alive for 4 years of top flight football with Bristol City.  Funnily enough, when we had the brilliant celebrations on the pitch and the pubs after the fantastic occasion of achieving promotion when beating Pompey, I noticed a little gang called the "Wolves of West Street promotion haters" holding a little protest on the pitch with placards such as "we wish we were Portsmouth, they're going down!" and "Lucky, Lucky Pompey".  Seriously I do not get why any genuine City fan would have say, gone to Wembley in 2008 for the play off final against Hull and cheered because we lost!

Even missed the Hull game, stuck in a shitty pub in Weston on a Stag do.  Picture was about a minute behind the audio.  Bloody awful.

[Ska Junkie]

2 hours ago, poland_exile said:

I loathe the premiership, it's come to stand for everything I hate about the game. I don't think I've watched a full match this season, and seeing a minute of the forced razzmatazz and sky fireworks makes me want to reach for a pistol. At the risk of offending some of the gentler posters on here, I've loved reading about today's shenanigans, it really reminded me of everything that gave me a buzz in my youth. But there's no room for that in the Prem, it's all about the family-first, supermax experience glossily packaged for a foreign audience. It's not the football that I love, it's a soulless product empty of any emotive warmth. 

But do I want us to do badly? No I don't. Of course I want to see us promoted, and I'm certain my celebration would go down in international legend. But there's definitely a conflict of interest given the above. 

Thing is, when I signed up to be a City fan for life, I was under no illusion that we would ever be any good, that we'd ever win anything, that we'd ever compete with the best. I signed up knowing we're a s**t club, with great fans that's a good laugh to follow and at times tragic to watch. Anything else I've seen as a bonus. I love supporting this club, no matter how many times it's tested my patience, and I don't really give a monkeys where we are in the league. 

I think the point i'm trying to make, I'm happy with the club I've got and I wouldn't want us to change to accommodate Sky's / the modern punters expectations of how a club should be. 

But maybe I'm a dinosaur  

How has this post not been given more accolades?

Brilliant post PE, absolutely spot on! 

[Ska Junkie]

While I've seen our club in the top flight (I was 9 when we went up in '76), the top flight was a different animal in those days.

If I'm being honest, I want all those younger than me to experience days out watching City at Old Trafford and White Hart lane on a regular basis. Yes. we lost most of the time but we were there, it was Bristol City in the top flight with the Arsenals, Evertons and Tottenhams.

Yes, the financial rewards for the club would be obscene but one year up there for you young 'uns would be my satisfaction. It would shut us older buggers up too. 

Let's have a go eh!! 

[New Dazzler]

Well at least the so-called fans who are hoping we fail in our quest for promotion to the Premier League still have grand hopes for us in the FA Cup, so they will be thrilled if we beat the mighty Shrewsbury or Wolves in the Cup and reach the quarter finals.  How anyone could wish we lose points in the league is beyond me.  Yes, I take the point the Premier League is not perfect, but neither is the Championship (all those parachute payments), but you just have to try and achieve the best possible situation for your resources.   I am so wrong in thinking this?

[Wanderingred]

2 hours ago, poland_exile said:

I would suggest you've essentially misunderstood the spirit of the post. 

There is a very valid cause for concern that we would lose 'our club' if we became a premiership mainstay. The premiership is hardly known for fostering the raw side to football that many of us love. If anything, it strips away identity and tradition and nurtures sameness and uniformity. Without answering for Wolf, and without wishing to intellectualize too much, i'd maybe treat this more as a moral debate rather than jumping to the assumption that he and those of his thinking want the club to do badly! 

I've not misunderstood a thing.

The OP said outright that he "wants to see us stay where we are". If our good run continues, we may well go up, which he doesn't want. Pretty fair game to assume that he therefore wants us to stop winning, no?

I'd jump at the chance to get promoted, surely any of us would. Perhaps the real debate is not would we want to win promotion, but would we want to stay there and fester doing nothing in lower mid table for a few years like Stoke. If the OP was phrased like that, I'd have reacted differently. But I just can't understand any City fan not wanting us to at least get there and experience it.

[Silvio Dante]

It’s a decent discussion- being wary of going up because there’s a fair chance we’d get a lot of whippings is valid, as is the argument that we’d lose the clubs “soul” with multiple moved kick offs. Add in that you don’t do it right, and you can come down with a lot of average players on big money and if you don’t go back up be screwed by FFP. Long term, it’s reasonable to say going up can do harm.

But....

If you do it right, it can and should be a good thing. I’ve made the point before that the sides which survive and thrive tend to be those where it’s hungry players who want their crack at the top level (Reading first time around being a great example, Wolves this year, Swansea when going up initially). What you don’t do is buy journeymen who have been up and down more times than Irene’s knickers, or completely dismantle the side (hello Fulham). Take your promotion team, add 2-3 of the right quality and grow - we’re big enough as a city to sustain that.

Plus, my son really wants BCFC to be in next years Match Attax. 

[Murraysrightplum]

If not, why are we bothering? Why do we care when we lose? People said the same thing when we’d been in L1 for ages

Those cup games last season every week? Even if it’s for 1 season it’d be great

[Major Isewater]

8 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Possibly controversial, but do any city fans think getting to the prem would be a bad thing?

I'm thinking this watching match of the day, Chelsea V Huddersfield. Pundits getting a hard on over billion pound Chelsea beating their peasant opposition. It's like watching u18s play u12s, ...... guess who wins?  

The premier league is completely unfair, the haves and have nots. Why would we want to be apart of that? How boring would it be to be part of a league you could never win?

I actually hope we stay where we are, at least it's competitive to an extent. 

The prem is not the "promised land" but training ground for the the club's owned by countries, to take the piss out of clubs steeped in heritage. Not interested, no dignity in that.

Whilst globally I see your point of view if you can’t aspire to be the best what’s the point of it all ?

Who’s to say that we could never win it ?

 I will throw in Leicester as the obvious ‘ perfect storm ‘. 

We are trying to do it differently and just maybe we will succeed.

As LJ stated it is depth of squad which is important to maintain a successful season , that’s where the richer clubs have the advantage but you could have ‘ luck ‘ with injuries or just have a game plan which the others can’t nullify and it could happen.

 I don’t see how it would be so very different from the last time we graced the top division. The money is bigger all round and the big clubs are still there but we were a better team than many of them even though we perhaps lacked the individual talent. 

I would love us to go up even if we came straight back down again it would put us on the footballing map and get the monkey off our backs whilst showing progress.

[bcfcredandwhite]

If we do get to the Premiership then I suspect our focus to be around not getting relegated. I can imagine that the first season might be ok and possibly the second, due to the novelty, but after a few seasons of relegation battles I would imagine the crowd getting despondent and fed up. 

We might take the opportunity to have a real good go at one of the cup comps though - as long as we were safe. 

Of course, SL could splash the cash and we would be the next Man City - with all the Manc kids running around with Bristol City shirts on - we would create a whole new generation of plastics!!!!

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

You've completely missed the point I'm trying to make. I don't see the premier league as a fair league, so trying to debate why that would be fun. 

No Division is ‘ fair ‘ .

We were a big club in the third and fourth divisions, way richer than most other clubs and bought the best players for those divisions. Did it stop us getting tonked by those smaller clubs ? 

Some of those smaller clubs have by passed us and been in  the Prem ,to this day  Bournemouth, for example. 

Add Wigan, Reading, Swindon ...

LJ could become our «  Eddie Howe «  we may be much better run than certain clubs who have been damaged by their flirtation with the top flight.

Chill and enjoy the ride would be my advice.

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 hours ago, New Dazzler said:

Well at least the so-called fans who are hoping we fail in our quest for promotion to the Premier League still have grand hopes for us in the FA Cup, so they will be thrilled if we beat the mighty Shrewsbury or Wolves in the Cup and reach the quarter finals.  How anyone could wish we lose points in the league is beyond me.  Yes, I take the point the Premier League is not perfect, but neither is the Championship (all those parachute payments), but you just have to try and achieve the best possible situation for your resources.   I am so wrong in thinking this?

Give it a rest 

You are coming across as a cock now

 

 

[New Dazzler]

17 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Give it a rest 

You are coming across as a cock now

 

 

Thank you!  I mentioned in a previous post about the Ashton 8 that when a poster resorts to name calling and cannot articulate any reasoned debate, they realise that they have lost the argument..

[22A]

This question was asked in 2006 / 07 and then the majority of posters stated they'd rather have City as a strong Championship team with a good cup run every few years than be in the prem with higher ticket prices and kick off times and days altered at short notice.

Then we reached THAT play off final and so many changed their PoV as it was realised City could get to thew prem.

Yes, we all want City to be one of the top teams in the land, but i would not want one season of weekly humiliation though. Remember when Swindon made it? They had to endure such things as a televised five nil home defeat one Sunday afternoon. 1980 we were relegated from the then Division One and yes we won just nine and lost 20 of our 42 games and scored less than 42 goals, but we were never really humiliated, it was just a string of defeats and we felt as though things could be turned round .