Walsh

[JBFC II]

Gone on loan to Coventry for the season, with an option to recall in January. 

Good move for him that, lets hope he gets minutes under his belt

[Roe]

Bit of a shame as I like Walsh but he hasn't even been getting a spot on the bench despite being the only other fit midfielder.  Hope he does well.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

A little surprised as the indications following yesterday's u23 match with Leeds were that we'd keep him and Watkins around, and send others out. However, he has gone to one of the better footballing clubs in L1 so it should of benefit to all. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

He needs the gametime, but one that would IMO work well in a 3.

Also think given our track record with injuries and indeed in midfield this season, I'd be wary of it- but if he was to come back with regular gametime, a better player it could well work out. Goal and assist at QPR let's not forget.

[westred1]

1 minute ago, Roe said:

Bit of a shame as I like Walsh but he hasn't even been getting a spot on the bench despite being the only other fit midfielder.  Hope he does well.

With Nagy coming back to fitness we’ll have him, Brownhill and Massengo. Walsh is seemingly behind them so makes sense.

Think he’s a good player.

[Rossi the Robin]

He must be thinking at times, what the hell have I done 

[Red Army 75]

Excellent move for him just what he needs IMO. Got the ability but lacks consistency. Definitely won’t write him off . Taylor Moore taught me that 

[And Its Smith]

Leaves us a bit light in midfield considering Korey’s injury record. 

[Prinny]

I sat through the under 23s game yesterday  vs Leeds, the guy has so much quality on the ball but he has to play and make his mistakes at a lower level to us. There are times when he lets up defensively and his decision making is poor, and the way to fix that is to go play football somewhere else. Fully on board with this decision. It's up to him if he makes it with us, has the ability, show the consistency and desire.

[OldlandReddies]

Makes sense with Nagy fit again. 

[BCFCGav]

I think he’ll do bloody well. Go on Walshy.

[Guest]

40 games. He might come back ready. Good move.

[Northern Red]

Needs to play, and he isn't going to do that here. If he was he'd have been making the bench since Nagy got injured.

[spudski]

30 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I sat through the under 23s game yesterday  vs Leeds, the guy has so much quality on the ball but he has to play and make his mistakes at a lower level to us. There are times when he lets up defensively and his decision making is poor, and the way to fix that is to go play football somewhere else. Fully on board with this decision. It's up to him if he makes it with us, has the ability, show the consistency and desire.

I agree in your observations, my only reservations are that he's not fast enough, both mentally and physically...more so the latter. He certainly has technique and an eye for a pass. But fast energy and engine...seems a lot less to how we are trying to play imo 

Hope he proves me wrong.

[Offside]

Probably for the best for him. He’s seemingly way down the pecking order here and needs game time. 

[Prinny]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree in your observations, my only reservations are that he's not fast enough, both mentally and physically...more so the latter. He certainly has technique and an eye for a pass. But fast energy and engine...seems a lot less to how we are trying to play imo 

Hope he proves me wrong.

I think he can play in a three at this level in a manner to how LJ played and I bet that's what LJ sees/wants to see too. You need the runners around him and he needs to be better and more consistent at what he's good at. The technique level, the desire to play the ball forwards rather than sideways and back and his set piece delivery are why I think he has the tools to have a chance here. People often bring up Barry Bannan as an example of not needing pace to be a good player at this level, but Walsh doesn't have his consistency or smarts yet. He's currently our asset so I hope he improves on loan and either comes back and is useful for us or increases his sale value!

I actually think he won't make the grade with us as the club progresses faster than he does. But I do think if he maximises his potential he can be a very good championship midfielder. IF.

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I think he can play in a three at this level in a manner to how LJ played and I bet that's what LJ sees/wants to see too. You need the runners around him and he needs to be better and more consistent at what he's good at. The technique level, the desire to play the ball forwards rather than sideways and back and his set piece delivery are why I think he has the tools to have a chance here. People often bring up Barry Bannan as an example of not needing pace to be a good player at this level, but Walsh doesn't have his consistency or smarts yet. He's currently our asset so I hope he improves on loan and either comes back and is useful for us or increases his sale value!

I actually think he won't make the grade with us as the club progresses faster than he does. But I do think if he maximises his potential he can be a very good championship midfielder. IF.

Your last paragraph sums up how I feel too.

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I think he can play in a three at this level in a manner to how LJ played and I bet that's what LJ sees/wants to see too. You need the runners around him and he needs to be better and more consistent at what he's good at. The technique level, the desire to play the ball forwards rather than sideways and back and his set piece delivery are why I think he has the tools to have a chance here. People often bring up Barry Bannan as an example of not needing pace to be a good player at this level, but Walsh doesn't have his consistency or smarts yet. He's currently our asset so I hope he improves on loan and either comes back and is useful for us or increases his sale value!

I actually think he won't make the grade with us as the club progresses faster than he does. But I do think if he maximises his potential he can be a very good championship midfielder. IF.

I think many see him as a Barry Bannan type in future.  I think most of that is based on similar stature, not ability.  He has good technique in space but I don’t think he is quick enough both physically and mentally when pressured.  Barry Bannan at a young age had tonnes more ability imho and had played 30-40 games in the Prem at a similar age.  He (BB) wasn’t heading into a Lg1 loan at 21.  I accept players can improve, I just think the comparison is not based on football ability.  Harsh?  Probably!!

I don’t think he’s good enough to build a midfield that does his leg work for him.

Top Championship?  I don’t see it.

Worrying for his future that he’s going in a season long loan and NOT extended his contract beyond this summer.  Leaves City little protection.

[Prinny]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Worrying for his future that he’s going in a season long loan and NOT extended his contract beyond this summer.  Leaves City little protection.

I guessing we have a years option.

When we signed Bailey Wright and Matty Taylor they were also 2 1/2 year deals with no reported option. But there was the option in there. Pretty terrible decision to pay the fee and only have him for 2 1/2 years if not and doesn't line up with what we were doing before. Just a guess though.

Tweeted Gregor MacGregor to ask, and to ask LJ if he doesn't know!

[weepywall]

Always pleased to see our players go to league 1 and possibly cause some damage to the Gas

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Prinny said:

I guessing we have a years option.

When we signed Bailey Wright and Matty Taylor they were also 2 1/2 year deals with no reported option. But there was the option in there. Pretty terrible decision to pay the fee and only have him for 2 1/2 years if not and doesn't line up with what we were doing before. Just a guess though.

Both were reported with 1 year option.....it’s in my spreadsheet too (and on OS)

[Prinny]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Both were reported with 1 year option.....it’s in my spreadsheet too (and on OS)

My bad, I checked the BBC. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Prinny said:

My bad, I checked the BBC. 

Ha ha.  I’m know I’m a right old Excel saddo, but I keep the dates of the official site announcements, just in case , otherwise searching is a nightmare.

 

of course he may have a year option.  They never used to give us all the info.

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, Rossi the Robin said:

He must be thinking at times, what the hell have I done 

He should concentrate more on what he doesn’t/hasn’t done and work on that..!

[Carey 6]

Any Cov fans looking on our forum for stuff about him, here’s a video. 

 

[BRISTOL86]

Let’s not forget that Moore was seemingly ‘never going to make it’ etc etc and now is a first team starter out of nowhere. Our model isn’t always signing players to instantly be starting every game. 

Good move, if he does well he’ll either play here or we’ll get our money back. Rather he be playing and developing somewhere than getting splinters. 

[Swede]

Sad to see him leave but he needs game time. I really like him and he has a lot in his locker. Absolutely great with the ball. If there was one criticism of him it's tracking runners.

That half last season v Stoke will live long in the memory, he absolutely dominated them.

[Robbored]

The bottom line and the reason he’s gone out on loan is that Walsh needs competitive mens football and that’s not something that LJ could offer him at City given the signing of Nagy and Messengo this summer.

Good move for all parties involved.

[samo II]

Boy needs to play, so this works out.

He’s 21 and isn’t breaking into the side; better he goes and gets games, and we get to assess him at a later time.

Might be frustrating at times, but if we are going to find and improve potential gems, sometimes they have to take a step back to move forwards, and hopefully this is one of those time.

Moore clearly improved his game on loan, and while still the finished article, that’s the process; fine and improve potential, and augment that with proven players.

Rome wasn’t built in a day and all that.

[Sleepy1968]

3 hours ago, Prinny said:

I sat through the under 23s game yesterday  vs Leeds, the guy has so much quality on the ball but he has to play and make his mistakes at a lower level to us. There are times when he lets up defensively and his decision making is poor, and the way to fix that is to go play football somewhere else. Fully on board with this decision. It's up to him if he makes it with us, has the ability, show the consistency and desire.

You're spot on. I watched him last week v Barnsley U23s. A long way from starting in a decent Championship side, but the potential is there. If he can get 25+ starts at Coventry it's going to push him on much better than sitting in the U23s. A win all round I'd say.

[ScottishRed]

I wish him well, the lad can play, but I think our progress is stretching beyond his.

Bar a load of suspensions or injuries he isn’t getting a game here.

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Prinny said:

I sat through the under 23s game yesterday  vs Leeds, the guy has so much quality on the ball but he has to play and make his mistakes at a lower level to us. There are times when he lets up defensively and his decision making is poor, and the way to fix that is to go play football somewhere else. Fully on board with this decision. It's up to him if he makes it with us, has the ability, show the consistency and desire.

 

1 hour ago, Sleepy1968 said:

You're spot on. I watched him last week v Barnsley U23s. A long way from starting in a decent Championship side, but the potential is there. If he can get 25+ starts at Coventry it's going to push him on much better than sitting in the U23s. A win all round I'd say.

Genuine question, how did we set up in those games?

Did we set up to boss the ball, was it more about pressing, eschewing possession, countering? I don't think our shape does him any favours! At times doesn't do the team any favours in terms of ball retention, of contrrol.

[TonyTonyTony]

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

[Sleepy1968]

24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

Genuine question, how did we set up in those games?

Did we set up to boss the ball, was it more about pressing, eschewing possession, countering? I don't think our shape does him any favours! At times doesn't do the team any favours in terms of ball retention, of contrrol.

I'm the last person to ask about that sort of thing - but the Barnsley game was similar to how we played against Boro, but against a massively inferior opposition. I don't think there was much in the way of patterns of play/tactics and we just seemed to rely on having several players that were a couple or three of notches ahead of the very young Barnsley opposition. It wasn't really a contest. Walsh was in a central midfield two with Bakinson (or so I thought). He seemed to give the ball away a few times under no real pressure.  I could see why he's not considered a Championship starter by LJ. It's been a week and my memory is a bit flaky, so take what I say with a large pinch of salt!Insert other media

[Robbored]

16 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

The logic is that  Walsh needs regular competitive league football and currently LJ isn’t able to accommodate that for him. Walsh could stay at AG and either sit on the bench or be omitted from the match day squad but that’s of no benefit to Walsh or the club.

Theres a recall option in January if needed. 

When Walsh returns he’ll be match fit with several consecutive games under his belt. It’s a win win situation for all apertures involved.

[DT The Optimist]

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

[Red Skin]

I really like Walsh.  Bit gutted he is going but probably best for his progression.  

[jimmytango78]

7 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

Don't forget Bakinson. Think LJ has kept him in the squad as he's a 'home grown' player. If we get more injuries in midfield he could probably step up

[tj81829]

Good move for him. Possibly a good move for us if he comes back ready to step-up. I think its Bakinson's turn to sit on the fringes and learn Johnson's way of playing 

[The Journalist]

Josh Brownhill is less than two years older than Liam Walsh and clocked up 150+ more league appearances.

It’s not rocket science, he has to play football.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

I thought Korey was due back October. I think we have those 4 you say, Korey hopefully back next month, O'Dowda if we play 3 in there. And I really would have no problem seeing Taylor Moore move into midfield in an emergency. He can play there. I'm sure he'd do a decent holding job. And then we also have Towler who might surprise some if he came in. Looks very promising. Oh and Bakinson like you say. Would he be much better with better players around him? However bad he looked against Leeds under 23s, he is very highly rated by City.

[CyderInACan]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought Korey was due back October

I thought it was more like January? Not sure why though. Maybe someone can confirm.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 hours ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I'm the last person to ask about that sort of thing - but the Barnsley game was similar to how we played against Boro, but against a massively inferior opposition. I don't think there was much in the way of patterns of play/tactics and we just seemed to rely on having several players that were a couple or three of notches ahead of the very young Barnsley opposition. It wasn't really a contest. Walsh was in a central midfield two with Bakinson (or so I thought). He seemed to give the ball away a few times under no real pressure.  I could see why he's not considered a Championship starter by LJ. It's been a week and my memory is a bit flaky, so take what I say with a large pinch of salt!Insert other media

Thanks. A 2 then?

Don't believe it suits him. If up against a 3, that can give less time on the ball, less margin for error- easier to be harried into mistakes..

If LJ plays the sort of shape we saw Saturday then yes, it will entertain, yes we will score goals...but we'll concede chances as well. We saw it in evidence at QPR. Lots of them at times!

Still, he needs football and lots of it. I hope this move will be the upturn he needs.

[jellyred]

Hopefully with Moore going away on loan and coming back much improved and now a first team starter its showing those players like Walsh that its definitely worth going out on loan and there is a pathway if you show the desire and attitude

[1960maaan]

9 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

Walsh nor Bakinson have even made the bench this season (Walsh started Vs QPR in the cup), with Szmodics there I guess LJ sees him covering that same role that Walsh would. Our MF options from the bench have been limited to SS and ODowda, at least until Nagy gets fit. Walsh needs to play, he needs to be able to learn and make mistakes in real games, U23s are pointless for further development . I rate him, 2 footed , has vision and plays with his head up, but he needs experience and the only way to get that is a loan. I don't understand why he hasn't made the bench since Nagy has been injured, but it does mean it's not going to be a big miss unless we get several injuries in a short space of time.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Walsh nor Bakinson have even made the bench this season (Walsh started Vs QPR in the cup), with Szmodics there I guess LJ sees him covering that same role that Walsh would. Our MF options from the bench have been limited to SS and ODowda, at least until Nagy gets fit. Walsh needs to play, he needs to be able to learn and make mistakes in real games, U23s are pointless for further development . I rate him, 2 footed , has vision and plays with his head up, but he needs experience and the only way to get that is a loan. I don't understand why he hasn't made the bench since Nagy has been injured, but it does mean it's not going to be a big miss unless we get several injuries in a short space of time.

Walsh and Szmodics are completely different sorts /styles of players 1960

[Northern Red]

9 hours ago, DT The Optimist said:

Our midfield options Now !    Rowe; Brownhill; Nagy & Massengo.  Nagy already been crooked once, and with  bookings injuries and so on.....we r again light. Korey some time in 2020 perhaps ???  If all stayed injury free and fit......no problems, but that will not happen

No doubt if we'd kept him here not playing, that would have been wrong as well.

[1960maaan]

8 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Walsh and Szmodics are completely different sorts /styles of players 1960

I get that, but from the bench (and I'm only guessing as to how LJ sees it) , they have someone to play a slightly advanced role. SS seems to like to get forward and make runs , Walsh to set play going and look for forward momentum. What we don't have is someone to play a deeper role. Massengo has done that, in a more box to box way covering for Nagy, but I don't see either SS or Walsh being able to do that. I can only think LJ wants either balance on the bench, or he trusts Walsh even less than I thought.

[BobBobSuperBob]

26 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I get that, but from the bench (and I'm only guessing as to how LJ sees it) , they have someone to play a slightly advanced role. SS seems to like to get forward and make runs , Walsh to set play going and look for forward momentum. What we don't have is someone to play a deeper role. Massengo has done that, in a more box to box way covering for Nagy, but I don't see either SS or Walsh being able to do that. I can only think LJ wants either balance on the bench, or he trusts Walsh even less than I thought.

Sure , what I was aiming at is , on the bit I’ve seen , wouldn’t consider SS in a midfield role tbh

Hes a bag of tricks but doesn’t have the assets to play in a central midfield role IMHO

He looks like a 10 , wide in a front three or possibly even a second striker in future 

Walsh is , atm , a ‘C’ Grade version of Nagy IMHO

[1960maaan]

I think it comes back to an LJ quote where he said he sees Walsh in a 3 @BobBobSuperBob , and as you say SS isn't that CMF (at least yet). 
With Korey and Nagy out, Pack gone and Walsh still not making the bench you have to wonder about his long term future here. Maybe 40 games on loan will bring him along in the way it did Moore. 

[Davefevs]

Think the “problem” is that LJ trusts Walsh less than the current set of 3 natural CMs (plus Smith in time) and would readily play other players out of natural position ahead of him too. 

He played COD at LWB to allow Rowe to come into CM on Saturday. 

I’m sure if Nagy and Massengo aren’t fit v Stoke, he’d do exactly that again rather than play Walsh. 

For me Walsh didn’t pass his audition v QPR because of his off the ball performance. And LJ won’t take that risk again in a league game.

On the flip side maybe LJ is thinking of Walsh’s development ahead of anything else and has taken a risk that Bakinson would cover any injuries.

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Think the “problem” is that LJ trusts Walsh less than the current set of 3 natural CMs (plus Smith in time) and would readily play other players out of natural position ahead of him too. 

He played COD at LWB to allow Rowe to come into CM on Saturday. 

I’m sure if Nagy and Massengo aren’t fit v Stoke, he’d do exactly that again rather than play Walsh. 

For me Walsh didn’t pass his audition v QPR because of his off the ball performance. And LJ won’t take that risk again in a league game.

On the flip side maybe LJ is thinking of Walsh’s development ahead of anything else and has taken a risk that Bakinson would cover any injuries.

Never impressed me in a game I’ve seen him tbh 

Impresses In flashes with the odd ball but every time I’ve seen him he’s been caught in possession at times , possibly fuelled by his propensity to demand the ball all the time , and IMHO often in ill advised scenarios 

Using LJs ‘USP’ phrase - I look at Walsh and ask what his is - his passing ability I’d suggest 

Unsure on various aspects of his game (atm) I don’t think it’s enough or strong enough

Hes still only 21 ? though so has plenty of time to develop

Can fully see the sense in getting him some first team games (I think he’s a classic product of academy football atm) but I would have also considered keeping him ,  and had him studying and learning from Nagy , who I would suggest could be his ideal role model and style of player

Id go as far as actually asking Nagy to help mentor him 

[Major Isewater]

11 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

So, Korey Smith is out until January ? Pack has gone to Crapdiff - as I see it we only have 3 starters for CM. Nagy, Brownhill and Massengo. If one of those gets injured we are fooked

Hence I don’t understand Walsh being allowed to leave? What’s the logic?

Rowe can play there as can Palmer and a number of others like Eliasson, O’Dowda Sczmodics , don’t panic .

[AppyDAZE]

Message to Coventry...  

Let him take the free kicks.

[JBFC II]

8 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Never impressed me in a game I’ve seen him tbh 

Impresses In flashes with the odd ball but every time I’ve seen him he’s been caught in possession at times , possibly fuelled by his propensity to demand the ball all the time , and IMHO often in ill advised scenarios 

Using LJs ‘USP’ phrase - I look at Walsh and ask what his is - his passing ability I’d suggest 

Unsure on various aspects of his game (atm) I don’t think it’s enough or strong enough

Hes still only 21 ? though so has plenty of time to develop

Can fully see the sense in getting him some first team games (I think he’s a classic product of academy football atm) but I would have also considered keeping him ,  and had him studying and learning from Nagy , who I would suggest could be his ideal role model and style of player

Id go as far as actually asking Nagy to help mentor him 

I was impressed away at Brentford and at home to stoke last year, both times he used the ball well and created chances. 

He definitely needs game time and men’s football, hopefully this loan does him the world of good

[Dullmoan Tone]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

For me Walsh didn’t pass his audition v QPR because of his off the ball performance. And LJ won’t take that risk again in a league game.

 

Think you have hit the nail on the head here - LJ was distinctly unhappy after the QPR games saying not enough players worked hard enough off the ball, at the time I thought he was hinting at Sam S and Liam - it's something you say about midfielders not defenders.