Preston North End v Bristol City Match Day 9

[Cowshed]

37 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Ok, but I still don't follow the argument. I may be missing something but it seems to amount to Baker got what he deserved because he defended badly so it doesn't matter if he was fouled.

Could you clarify?

The referees judgement was Baker was not fouled. I broke down the why's the referee may have saw it that way. 

If you defend badly expect this as an expected outcome. If as team you are first, take the ball at its highest point you can, keep a defensive triangle the scenarios have to be different.

City were poor on the short corner, allowed Preston time to cross it, allowed a player to get first to a ball in the six yard box … Don't leave it to the ref, look closer to home and improve.  

[mozo]

2 hours ago, UpTheWhites said:

 

Since you brought them up, Weimann was offside and Diedhiou pushed Bauer with two hands in the back. On first viewing, I thought it was incredibly soft. But there are numerous angles showing that it is a foul all day long. 

I've been quite respectful about the game to be honest. We didn't deserve to win. We were poor. 

But please get off your high horse - you scored three goals all from set pieces. 

I think you've been pretty reasonable and rather than blame the ref we should be asking why our players are not just giving away penalties but not defending better in the moment leading up to the fouls. 

I think City were the dominant force in the game, but we deserve what we got because we weren't quite good enough at the back and we didn't get more quality shots on goal from our countless promising attacks.

[chinapig]

19 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The referees judgement was Baker was not fouled. I broke down the why's the referee may have saw it that way. 

If you defend badly expect this is as an expected outcome. If as team you are first, take the ball at its highest point you can, keep a defensive triangle the scenarios have to be different.

City were poor on the short corner, allowed Preston time to cross it, allowed a player to get first to a ball in the six yard box … Don't leave it to the ref, look closer to home and improve.  

Understood. It would be interesting to know if that was the ref's thinking. Or if refs in general consider what might be called contributory negligence when making such decisions. Shame they are forbidden from explaining their thinking, we might all learn something!

[Mortis]

19 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

the reality is that every club has good people who follow them. PNE as a whole, I reckon have a bit of a  we're northern, we're historic, little Bristol who? etc etc thing about them and it totally gets on my tits tbh.12,000 in the championship. Poor, piss poor

IMO you are quite wide of the mark , every club has a minority of dislike of anything other than the club they support never in all my years heard / seen City described as little Bristol etc and as for our gate sizes I’ve posted earlier why we get the crowds we do so have no desire to state it again nor see why it’s of any relevance as I don’t think you get extra league points the last time I looked for larger support

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, chinapig said:

Understood. It would be interesting to know if that was the ref's thinking. Or if refs in general consider what might be called contributory negligence when making such decisions. Shame they are forbidden from explaining their thinking, we might all learn something!

Nah, he was a homer from 36 minutes onwards

Seriously though, a lot of Refs don’t understand the game, they wouldn’t know what to take into account and what not to.  Interesting that this was the same ref who gave a pen against Liam Walsh at QPR.  Admittedly Walsh put his hands on Wells’s back, and Wells stopped moving away from goal making it look like a push.  A ref who understood the game would spot that.  On the flip side, I’d be bollocking Walsh for putting his hands on Wells.

I love it if more (any?) ex-pros went into officiating, but it doesn’t help when current players like James Vaughan gives on twitter and says things like “game’s gone” or words to that effect on Hayden’s red card this afternoon.

Refs and clubs need to work together.  Refs need to understand the game and players need to understand the current rules / laws.

[AppyDAZE]

7 minutes ago, Mortis said:

IMO you are quite wide of the mark , every club has a minority of dislike of anything other than the club they support never in all my years heard / seen City described as little Bristol etc and as for our gate sizes I’ve posted earlier why we get the crowds we do so have no desire to state it again nor see why it’s of any relevance as I don’t think you get extra league points the last time I looked for larger support

Fair play, mate. But I think there has been a bit of bad blood in recent times partly due to the transfers of Bailey Wright, Josh Brownhill and Greg Cunningham gobbing off frequently. I apologize, as i did to BS4 if i made unfair comment about your support.

[UpTheWhites]

20 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

the reality is that every club has good people who follow them. PNE as a whole, I reckon have a bit of a  we're northern, we're historic, little Bristol who? etc etc thing about them and it totally gets on my tits tbh.12,000 in the championship. Poor, piss poor

We have Liverpool, United, & City within a 40 minute drive of us. 

You're obviously a better supported club than we are. But have you never thought that it may be, in part, due to your location? Would you get 21K fans regularly if the three biggest teams in the country were within 40 miles? No. 

We lost a lot of fans during the Graham Westley era who we are yet to get back also. 

[AppyDAZE]

3 minutes ago, UpTheWhites said:

We have Liverpool, United, & City within a 40 minute drive of us. 

You're obviously a better supported club than we are. But have you never thought that it may be, in part, due to your location? Would you get 21K fans regularly if the three biggest teams in the country were within 40 miles? No. 

We lost a lot of fans during the Graham Westley era who we are yet to get back also. 

See above post mate. I've apologized once, not gonna keep doin it.. I get your points. we all make mistakes, even referees

[Up The City!]

59 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

The referees judgement was Baker was not fouled. I broke down the why's the referee may have saw it that way. 

If you defend badly expect this as an expected outcome. If as team you are first, take the ball at its highest point you can, keep a defensive triangle the scenarios have to be different.

City were poor on the short corner, allowed Preston time to cross it, allowed a player to get first to a ball in the six yard box … Don't leave it to the ref, look closer to home and improve.  

Please show me the laws of the game where the ref has to take Into account bad defending when making a decision, specifically the rule that applies to this type of foul. Thanks in advance.

[White boy]

As a Preston fan I can say that Bristol City are the best team I have seen at Deepdale for some time, reminded me of Norwich of last year which may seem strange as we beat them 3-1 but you get the idea.  Both Norwich and you guy us get the ball forward fast and forgetting all the controversy in the rain I think you were unlucky not to take more of your chances.  Not sure if you played the weather better would have liked to seen you on a normal day to make a truer judgement..... Talking about the controversy I think we may have just shaded it.....

[White boy]

AI would also add if you thought that was us being niggly then your mistaken hahhaha

 

I thought we behaved well yesterday

[Mortis]

1 hour ago, AppyDAZE said:

Fair play, mate. But I think there has been a bit of bad blood in recent times partly due to the transfers of Bailey Wright, Josh Brownhill and Greg Cunningham gobbing off frequently. I apologize, as i did to BS4 if i made unfair comment about your support.

And I hope I caused no offence and thank you for the reasonable and well thought out reply , always found City fans a knowledgeable and respectful bunch which is becoming a rarer commodity and is why I go to Ashton Gate every time we play City ( I’ve found the same since posting on OTIB and long may that continue ) , as I stated earlier I was very impressed with Bristol City yesterday and I think most reasoned Preston fans will have been pleased with the point based on the 90 minutes , yes we have had a few antics on the pitch over the years and I think we are a little more street wise in some areas , having watched North End for over 40 years and see us apply for re election and losing 4-0 at grounds like Torquay in League Two and standing amongst 2500-3000 fans in a ground crumbling around us and celebrating a draw at Exeter with my dad like we have won a cup final just to be competing in the 2nd Tier with an owner who divides opinion but keeps us punching above our weight I try to just enjoy the ride and expect little and remember it’s been 57 years since we graced the top table and we may not again if not I’ll keep watching the Whites at whatever level as my dad took me on from aged 3 Home and Away and I’ve loved the ride , City fans I think remind me of North End fans ( except for being Southerners ) always hoping for the best but not to dismayed to be where they are - Cheers 

[AppyDAZE]

4 minutes ago, Mortis said:

And I hope I caused no offence and thank you for the reasonable and well thought out reply , always found City fans a knowledgeable and respectful bunch which is becoming a rarer commodity and is why I go to Ashton Gate every time we play City ( I’ve found the same since posting on OTIB and long may that continue ) , as I stated earlier I was very impressed with Bristol City yesterday and I think most reasoned Preston fans will have been pleased with the point based on the 90 minutes , yes we have had a few antics on the pitch over the years and I think we are a little more street wise in some areas , having watched North End for over 40 years and see us apply for re election and losing 4-0 at grounds like Torquay in League Two and standing amongst 2500-3000 fans in a ground crumbling around us and celebrating a draw at Exeter with my dad like we have won a cup final just to be competing in the 2nd Tier with an owner who divides opinion but keeps us punching above our weight I try to just enjoy the ride and expect little and remember it’s been 57 years since we graced the top table and we may not again if not I’ll keep watching the Whites at whatever level as my dad took me on from aged 3 Home and Away and I’ve loved the ride , City fans I think remind me of North End fans ( except for being Southerners ) always hoping for the best but not to dismayed to be where they are - Cheers 

No, you're a good guy and I am sorry for that post. Really sorry and I WAS drinking 

[AppyDAZE]

PS @Mortis Thanks for stopping Swindon that day   :laugh:

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Basically what I’m saying, he needed to start his jump before Bauer started his.  I didn’t say he didn’t try to jump, just that he needed to get up earlier.  Once Bauer had got a run on him, it was gonna be difficult for Baker.  

You are absolutely correct on all your posts about this Dave - I remember even being taught this at school, if a cross comes in when you are defending your goal you bloody well make sure you get off the ground before the big centre forward behind you, that automatically makes it so much more difficult for him to get a clean header and it totally stuffs his plans to ‘ride on your shoulders’ - you don’t have to be very tall, but getting off the ground early as a defender frustrates many a big, tough striker ...

[Akira]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Baker lost his bearings and was outjumped. Its poor defending. There should not have been a question. The referee was left with a question does the Preston player who is commanding the situation foul a player who was more passive? In this case due to the City's players defending the Preston player was always going to get higher arms involved or not, and its not that difficult to see why the ref decides no foul.

I fail to see how having your arms on a defenders shoulders, and literally being head and shoulders above the defender, isn't a foul. That picture, in my opinion, says clear foul. 

[AppyDAZE]

7 minutes ago, Akira said:

I fail to see how having your arms on a defenders shoulders, and literally being head and shoulders above the defender, isn't a foul. That picture, in my opinion, says clear foul. 

It is a foul and I've even see a fair few PNE say that it is a foul now. Let's move on and cut the ref some slack and put it down to a bad day at the office. We all have 'em 

even Robbored does??

[Mortis]

35 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

No, you're a good guy and I am sorry for that post. Really sorry and I WAS drinking 

:laugh: all good pal

32 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

PS @Mortis Thanks for stopping Swindon that day  

Best day supporting Preston - 21 per cent possession and 4-0

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 hour ago, UpTheWhites said:

We have Liverpool, United, & City within a 40 minute drive of us....

Nah, it’s about a three hour drive to City .... 

[Up The City!]

1 hour ago, UpTheWhites said:

We have Liverpool, United, & City within a 40 minute drive of us. 

You're obviously a better supported club than we are. But have you never thought that it may be, in part, due to your location? Would you get 21K fans regularly if the three biggest teams in the country were within 40 miles? No. 

We lost a lot of fans during the Graham Westley era who we are yet to get back also. 

Distance matters very little. Bristol is full of Liverpool 'fans' and then Man United, I suspect as time goes on Man City will also have a large fanbase in Bristol. 

You should see the pubs in Bristol when Liverpool or United are playing. They are absolutely packed. 

 

[Davefevs]

40 minutes ago, Akira said:

I fail to see how having your arms on a defenders shoulders, and literally being head and shoulders above the defender, isn't a foul. That picture, in my opinion, says clear foul. 

I don’t think anyone is suggesting it wasn’t a foul....but as a defender better to not have to have the ref make a decision.  Get up early, put Bauer off, and he might not head it in.

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

You should see the pubs in Bristol when Liverpool or United are playing. They are absolutely packed. 

Which pubs are those? And people watching big games on tv in a pub doesn’t necessarily mean they ‘support’ the clubs featured on the screen ... they may just want to have a beer or two watching football which is light years ahead of the local offerings ...

[Up The City!]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Which pubs are those? And people watching big games on tv in a pub doesn’t necessarily mean they ‘support’ the clubs featured on the screen ...

I agree. The vast amounts of people wearing Man United or Liverpool shirts when a game is on in a pub are definitely not there to watch the game. 

[Kodjias Wrist]

17 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Distance matters very little. Bristol is full of Liverpool 'fans' and then Man United, I suspect as time goes on Man City will also have a large fanbase in Bristol. 

You should see the pubs in Bristol when Liverpool or United are playing. They are absolutely packed. 

 

I worked with loads of Arsenal fans and a fair few hammers fans. We need a sustained period in the top flight i think to start attracting these glory fans.

[BS4 on Tour...]

3 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

I agree. The vast amounts of people wearing Man United or Liverpool shirts when a game is on in a pub are definitely not there to watch the game. 

As I asked in my earlier posts - which pubs are full of people wearing Utd and Pool shirts? Do you do a tour of all Bristol pubs when the ‘live’ football is on?! I agree lots go to the pub to watch the big teams play on tv, doesn’t mean they support them though ...

[Up The City!]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

As I asked in my earlier posts - which pubs are full of people wearing Utd and Pool shirts? Do you do a tour of all Bristol pubs when the ‘live’ football is on?! I agree lots go to the pub to watch the big teams play on tv, doesn’t mean they support them though ...

Are you just looking for a petty debate or something? Just walk into any pub in Bristol on a match day and see for yourself. 

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, Up The City! said:

initially Please show me the laws of the game where the ref has to take Into account bad defending when making a decision, specifically the rule that applies to this type of foul. Thanks in advance.

A referee throughout the laws of the game has to take into account what bad is e.g. deliberate, reckless .. Referees do have to take into account the bio mechanics of movement. 

 

46 minutes ago, Akira said:

I fail to see how having your arms on a defenders shoulders, and literally being head and shoulders above the defender, isn't a foul. That picture, in my opinion, says clear foul. 

Being head and shoulders above an opponent is not a foul. And making contact with an opponent is not necessarily a foul either. That picture does not show the first stage of the Preston's players act of jumping. The player does not use his arms to gain leverage, he jumps with his arms up as virtually all do to help generate downward force and explosive movement through the legs. His secondary movement is where his arms come down. 

I am inclined to agree with this post. The Preston's players height was not created by using his opponent to gain it. Baker got himself into a position where he cannot be favourite to defend the ball. It is poor defending.  

On ‎28‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 21:01, BTRFTG said:

Where's the ball? Video shows Bauer goes over and on top of Baker post heading the ball,  point being whether he used Baker as a pivot to gain greater height. In this image Baker is already going down and the video footage shows that being the case Bauer's already headed the ball (Baker is pretty much upright when he makes contact else Baker should be criticised for poor defending if he's bending over to defend a cross.) Makes no difference what you or I think, the officials saw no foul and I think they called this one correctly (unlike quite a few they called wrong in Preston's favour.)

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

Are you just looking for a petty debate or something? Just walk into any pub in Bristol on a match day and see for yourself. 

Fair enough, so you don’t know that any of your claims are true .... just pure speculation, that’s standard on here - you can’t name any pub to support your ‘claims’ - that’s the problem with social media, people post stuff and lots just assume it’s true because it’s on the Internet ... 

[Up The City!]

2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fair enough, so you don’t know that any of your claims are true .... just pure speculation, that’s standard on here - you can’t name any pub to support your ‘claims’ - that’s the problem with social media, people post stuff and lots just assume it’s true because it’s on the Internet ... 

Walk into ANY pub in Bristol on a match day and see for yourself. 

I'd spend all night listing all the pubs. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

1 minute ago, Up The City! said:

Walk into ANY pub in Bristol on a match day and see for yourself. 

I'd spend all night listing all the pubs. 

Wow, you’d ‘spend all night listing the pubs’ - so you must trawl around hundreds of Bristol pubs when premier league games are live on Sky to make that claim, that’s an admirable devotion to proving that everyone in the pubs wear Man Utd and Liverpool shirts ...