Nathan ‘sick note’ Baker

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

I don’t disagree that he does seem to go off an usual amount of times and I’ve said that above. What I took issue with is someone with a history working in mental health mocking someone for having (in that posters words) a psychological issue.

If he does have a problem in his head we should look to support him, in fact even if it was a physical problem we should. I doubt any player enjoys being injured whether it’s a physical problem or a mental one.

Marcus - I was not mocking him - that’s your twisted take on my point....,,..........

Baker has been offered  ‘support’ at Villa but declined. Who knows if he’s been offered support at City as well but has also turned that down? Helping anyone who doesn’t want said help is a big problem.

The fact remains that it’s an issue that needs resolving.

[BCFC11]

Harsh to criticise him for being ‘injury prone’ when he’s got what possibly could be a serious underlying concussion problem. LJ is clearly frustrated at the problem but I wouldn’t risk my health for a game of football. Hopefully Bakes will get it resolved as a fully fit Nathan Baker gets into any team in this division.

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Anyone actually know if he does have a psychological issue?

He might just not be up for playing through a slight knock.

Lee Johnson did suggest he didn't have a clue why he keeps coming off in one post match interview earlier in the season.

 

RR is “certain”

[Robbored]

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Anyone actually know if he does have a psychological issue?

He might just not be up for playing through a slight knock.

Lee Johnson did suggest he didn't have a clue why he keeps coming off in one post match interview earlier in the season.

I think Baker himself doesn’t think it’s psychological and why he’s turned down offers of professional help.

Ask yourself this question tho - at both Villa and City he’s had to come off but recovers within a day or two or upon examination the physios can find nothing to treat........what would you conclude from that?

[Spud55]

3 hours ago, phantom said:

@Spud55 This was posted last September so has since increased but look at post 122 it was 8 BEFORE half time and 7 DURING half time, not including reds 

 

And how many games since then has Baker played and come off in the first half or even at half time in the league? It's once and that was on Saturday, so not sure what point you are trying to make? as I said I counted 12 times in the league that Baker played less than 45 minutes, and I now know for certain that one of them was Barnsley away when he actually came on with half and hour to go, so that's down to 11 and I can probably reduce that further if I could be arsed to go through every game he played less than 45 minutes. 

The half time subs are difficult as unless you actually remember an injury taking him off it is entirely possible that we have had to change system at half time, as that is hardly something we have not had to do numerous times over the past few years. So as I said I'm sure a few of them are injuries but some will not be as well. 

All I am saying is that people are making it out as if the man never completes 90 minutes, and that is clearly bollocks, does he go off more than most? Of course, but it's not as bad as people are making out. 

The loss of 1 sub really isn't the end of the world, as let's face it unless we are getting dicked Johnson makes a couple of subs between 63 and 80 minutes and then the pointless give Semenyo 30 seconds sub on 91+ minutes, so he's hardly having all his tactical options ripped away from him by Baker going off once in 6 months is he?

[Frenchay Red]

4 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Ask yourself this question tho - at both Villa and City he’s had to come off but recovers within a day or two or upon examination the physios can find nothing to treat.... what would you conclude from that?

Unlike all our other long term "sick notes", that he is a quick healer and has amazing powers of recovery. 

[Son of Fred]

19 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I think Baker himself doesn’t think it’s psychological and why he’s turned down offers of professional help.

Ask yourself this question tho - at both Villa and City he’s had to come off but recovers within a day or two or upon examination the physios can find nothing to treat........what would you conclude from that?

It's as well your not employed by the club any longer....

You may have been in line for a 'chat' with Lee in his office (minus the coffee).

You'd be able to give marks out of ten on family Johnson "Bollockometer".

[Spud55]

1 minute ago, Frenchay Red said:

Unlike all our other long term "sick notes", that he is a quick healer and has amazing powers of recovery. 

Or that he simply comes off when he feels something before it goes, rather than just blindly carrying on. 

Look at most of the old football players who would play through anything just having a cortizone injection and now can barely walk as their knees are ****** beyond repair. 

Maybe Baker isn't willing to do that? 

How many games did Kalas miss because he played before he was ready? He's missed 11 games since his first injury this season (which saw him miss 9 games) both times because he played while still injured and not ready to play, how much better off could we be if he didn't play when not fit? 

Whereas Baker has come off in the first half twice this season. But has been back for the next game. 

Which one would you rather? 

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

It's as well your not employed by the club any longer....

You may have been in line for a 'chat' with Lee in his office (minus the coffee).

You'd be able to give marks out of ten on family Johnson "Bollockometer".

I was never employed by the club Bob and I’d love a chat with LJ. We’d able to discuss the why and wherefores of Bakers issues............

[lenred]

10 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I was never employed by the club Bob and I’d love a chat with LJ. We’d able to discuss the why and wherefores of Bakers issues............

Your continued use of these snide emojis when discussing someone’s possible issues - either physical or mental - is crass and pathetic. Give it up. 

[phantom]

2 hours ago, Spud55 said:

And how many games since then has Baker played and come off in the first half or even at half time in the league? It's once and that was on Saturday, so not sure what point you are trying to make? as I said I counted 12 times in the league that Baker played less than 45 minutes, and I now know for certain that one of them was Barnsley away when he actually came on with half and hour to go, so that's down to 11 and I can probably reduce that further if I could be arsed to go through every game he played less than 45 minutes. 

@Spud55 I'm not sure why you are ignoring the facts 

Follow the link i posted above and as mentioned look at post 122 it shows he STARTED the games as I numbered and went off in the first half 

It's VERY black and white there's a problem with his injuries 

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, Spud55 said:

Or that he simply comes off when he feels something before it goes, rather than just blindly carrying on. 

Look at most of the old football players who would play through anything just having a cortizone injection and now can barely walk as their knees are ****** beyond repair. 

Maybe Baker isn't willing to do that? 

How many games did Kalas miss because he played before he was ready? He's missed 11 games since his first injury this season (which saw him miss 9 games) both times because he played while still injured and not ready to play, how much better off could we be if he didn't play when not fit? 

Whereas Baker has come off in the first half twice this season. But has been back for the next game. 

Which one would you rather? 

Are you related to Baker or something? 

You are clearly ignoring numerous facts and figures proving he has a problem yet you blindly refuse to acknowledge everything 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Are you related to Baker or something? 

You are clearly ignoring numerous facts and figures proving he has a problem yet you blindly refuse to acknowledge everything 

I think in fairness to @Spud55 he’s debating whether it’s psychological or physical.

[Spud55]

13 minutes ago, Alan Dicks' Barmy Army said:

Are you related to Baker or something? 

You are clearly ignoring numerous facts and figures proving he has a problem yet you blindly refuse to acknowledge everything 

I have never claimed he does not have injury problems, as  I have said numerous times in all of my posts, but I guess that's gone over your head somehow. What numerous facts and figures have I ignored? The ones I have pointed out where he has gone off before half time 11 times since he's been here? And as Phantom said something like 8 times at half time although we cannot be certain that all of them are injury related. 

As I have acknowledged he has gone off more than any other player, I just don't think that this necessarily meant he has mental issues, he could just know his own body and not be prepared to play through injury. 

I know its seen as a good thing generally to play through injury, but when you actually think about it it's really not, would we be in a better place if Kalas had missed 11 games instead of 9 when he was previously injured and come back fit rather than coming back carrying an injury and then relapsing and missing double the amount of games he may have done otherwise? Would we be better off if Nagy didn't play when not fit and just had his ankle op and came back the player he left or the shadow of the player he looks now? 

I am merely posing the point that maybe having a player who does go of "injured" more than others but is almost always then fit for the next game is not as deserving of the stick that Baker gets, if it isn't psychological it certainly makes Baker an oddity within sport as most sportsmen will often to their own detriment continue to compete through pain and make their injury worse. 

Just because someone offered him Psychological help at Villa, as I have no reason to doubt Robbored or the genuine nature of his source, does not mean that his problems are not physical, Villa might have got it wrong, hence the refusal. But none of us know that, as none of us know Nathan Baker, so i take issue with the ascertations that it must be psychological when there are perfectly reasonable physical explanations. 

The only thing that I have disagreed with in this thread is JonDolman asserting that Benkovic looks to be an upgrade currently on Baker which I do not agree with. 

[Spud55]

45 minutes ago, phantom said:

@Spud55 I'm not sure why you are ignoring the facts 

Follow the link i posted above and as mentioned look at post 122 it shows he STARTED the games as I numbered and went off in the first half 

It's VERY black and white there's a problem with his injuries 

What facts have I ignored? I pointed out he'd played less than 45 minutes 12 times and come of at half time a number of times, you have then countered pointing out that this is actually less, at 8 times before half time. 

So I'm not sure what your point is, and I have never said he doesn't have injury problems. Just the way some people are going on its as if he goes off every other game. 

[bcfc01]

2 hours ago, Spud55 said:

Or that he simply comes off when he feels something before it goes, rather than just blindly carrying on. 

Look at most of the old football players who would play through anything just having a cortizone injection and now can barely walk as their knees are ****** beyond repair. 

Maybe Baker isn't willing to do that? 

How many games did Kalas miss because he played before he was ready? He's missed 11 games since his first injury this season (which saw him miss 9 games) both times because he played while still injured and not ready to play, how much better off could we be if he didn't play when not fit? 

Whereas Baker has come off in the first half twice this season. But has been back for the next game. 

Which one would you rather? 

I'd rather have a centre back that can be relied upon to complete the game other than injury tbh.

Too many instances of coming off early and LJ has said the same.

Cash in during the summer imo.

[Spud55]

48 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I'd rather have a centre back that can be relied upon to complete the game other than injury tbh.

Too many instances of coming off early and LJ has said the same.

Cash in during the summer imo.

Fair enough, personally for me Baker is good enough for me to overlook that, but I can't disagree with you too much to be fair. 

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, Spud55 said:

Fair enough, personally for me Baker is good enough for me to overlook that, but I can't disagree with you too much to be fair. 

He is easily good enough, no doubt about it.

But when you have to use an early sub it can throw the game plan (if there is one of course).

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

On 09/03/2020 at 00:07, Davefevs said:

You could of course go and check yourself?  When I say check yourself, I don’t mean check yourself, I mean check a reputable source:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/nathan-baker/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/62638/verein/698

Heres a head-start....it’s quite a lot of times!!

When someone posts ‘Baker has gone off in the first half 20 times’ - I’m not sure why it’s down to me to check the validity of their stats?! I think people like @bcfc01 who post these bold claims should be able to back up their assertions rather than lazily posting links to the Bristol Post website when the articles therein don’t even support their ‘facts’ ...

[RumRed]

6 hours ago, lenred said:

Your continued use of these snide emojis when discussing someone’s possible issues - either physical or mental - is crass and pathetic. Give it up. 

He won’t, he does it on purpose hence why I’ve blocked him.  One day someone will actually buy a box of £1 market special sunnies and insert them up his arse though, like to see him tilt that lot.

For an ex mental health nurse the guys an utter ***.

[MarcusX]

42 minutes ago, mozo said:

DaSilva and Kalas injured... bloody deja vu!

Will either get the same stick as Baker?

[Robbored]

11 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Will either get the same stick as Baker?

Neither of them are sick notes like Baker is so why should they get stick? 

[MarcusX]

Just now, Robbored said:

Neither of them are sick notes like Baker is so why should they get stick? 

I'm not suggesting they should, but apparently Baker's availability was the concern. Big chunks of last season missed and now likely more games this season for both them sadly

 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, MarcusX said:

I'm not suggesting they should, but apparently Baker's availability was the concern. Big chunks of last season missed and now likely more games this season for both them sadly

 

I haven’t seen an injury update on either of them.

[New Dazzler]

8 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Neither of them are sick notes like Baker is so why should they get stick? 

I don't think any of them should get stick, but I am fairly certain that JD has been out injured more than he has been available since signing for us permanently last August, whereas Baker has not, until now, had a long term injury.

 

 

 

[vicky10]

Baker is hardly a sick note..his injuries have often come from putting his body or head in ,and that hurts ,he never pulls out of a challenge so give the guy a little respect.

[phantom]

8 minutes ago, vicky10 said:

Baker is hardly a sick note..his injuries have often come from putting his body or head in ,and that hurts ,he never pulls out of a challenge so give the guy a little respect.

Do you think he's the only player that does this? 

The number of times he's come off in the first half of a game must be up there with the worst record in professional football 

[archie andrews]

31 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Will either get the same stick as Baker?

Kalas shouldnt... he will need a sling i expect.... 

[Andy082005]

15 minutes ago, vicky10 said:

Baker is hardly a sick note..his injuries have often come from putting his body or head in ,and that hurts ,he never pulls out of a challenge so give the guy a little respect.

You are having a laugh? Bloke spends more time on the treatment table then I spend in my own bed 

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, New Dazzler said:

I don't think any of them should get stick, but I am fairly certain that JD has been out injured more than he has been available since signing for us permanently last August, whereas Baker has not, until now, had a long term injury.

Dasilva had a broken shin bone - that’s why he was out for so long. Baker on the other hand numerous minor injuries that led to him having to go off. He has a similar record at Villa. 

His current injury tho seems to be long term.

[elhombrecito]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Neither of them are sick notes like Baker is so why should they get stick? 

Baker played 12 more games than Dasilva last year. Intrigued to know what makes Baker a 'sicknote' and not Dasilva?

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, elhombrecito said:

Baker played 12 more games than Dasilva last year. Intrigued to know what makes Baker a 'sicknote' and not Dasilva?

Read my last post.............

[elhombrecito]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Read my last post.............

Still doesn't explain anything. An injury is an injury. Why does one long term injury make somebody less of a 'sicknote' than somebody with lots of minor injuries?

Unless you're saying he's been faking his injuries, which seems like a very bold statement?

[Eddie Notgetinya]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Read my last post.............

 

9 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Still doesn't explain anything. An injury is an injury. Why does one long term injury make somebody less of a 'sicknote' than somebody with lots of minor injuries?

Unless you're saying he's been faking his injuries, which seems like a very bold statement?

I think the point is that Baker is injury prone because he picks up a lot of injuries. Dasilva had one big injury so can’t be classed as ‘injury prone’ so to speak. 

[Robbored]

9 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Still doesn't explain anything. An injury is an injury. Why does one long term injury make somebody less of a 'sicknote' than somebody with lots of minor injuries?

Unless you're saying he's been faking his injuries, which seems like a very bold statement?

Baker gets lots of niggling injuries that led to him having to go off early. He’d miss a game and be back for the next before going off injured again - a real sick note.

2 minutes ago, Eddie Notgetinya said:

 

I think the point is that Baker is injury prone because he picks up a lot of injuries. Dasilva had one big injury so can’t be classed as ‘injury prone’ so to speak. 

Well put!

[BigTone]

28 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Read my last post.............

Robbo, if Baker gets stuck in and gets injured how exactly does that make him a sicknote? Am I correct in saying a few were concusion related which indicates he is happy to get in where it hurts.

[JBFC II]

41 minutes ago, phantom said:

Do you think he's the only player that does this? 

The number of times he's come off in the first half of a game must be up there with the worst record in professional football 

8 times in just over 90 games, according to transfermarkt 3 of those were injury based. 

Not great but at the same time not the sick note people make him out to be

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Robbo, if Baker gets stuck in and gets injured how exactly does that make him a sicknote? Am I correct in saying a few were concusion related which indicates he is happy to get in where it hurts.

Baker is an absolute 100%er when he plays to the point of being reckless - nobody can argue that NB isn’t a decent  CB but with so many minor injuries he misses plenty of game time and that labels him a sick note in the eyes of many fans.

LJ mentioned how frustrating it is so see Baker leaving the game early so often. 

[Colemanballs]

I'm not going to get involved in the 'is Baker a sick-note or not' debate, and whilst I recognise that he's a good defender, I'm unconvinced that he's comfortable enough on the ball to play the way Holden seems to want to play.

[Dolman_Stand]

26 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

8 times in just over 90 games, according to transfermarkt 3 of those were injury based. 

Not great but at the same time not the sick note people make him out to be

Thats getting on for 10 of his starts where he has gone off injured in the first half then? Quite a high percentage if you ask me

[BigTone]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Baker is an absolute 100%er when he plays to the point of being reckless - nobody can argue that NB isn’t a decent  CB but with so many minor injuries he misses plenty of game time and that labels him a sick note in the eyes of many fans.

LJ mentioned how frustrating it is so see Baker leaving the game early so often. 

No more frustrating than it was watching LJ try and manage the team.

[phantom]

34 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

8 times in just over 90 games, according to transfermarkt 3 of those were injury based. 

Not great but at the same time not the sick note people make him out to be

Do you honestly know any other professional footballer that has gone off injures as often at such early stages of the game?

These are from last season (2019/20)

Home to Swansea

Away to Shrewsbury (FA Cup)

Away to Fulham

Away to Hull City

Home to Stoke City

 

The cycle continues all the way through his time with us.....

 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Neither of them are sick notes like Baker is so why should they get stick? 

What’s the definition of “sick note”?  Missing games or coming off during games?

[westex red]

Baker gives 100% to call him sick note is very poor, okay he gets injuries however a big team/squad player and deserves more respect from us fans, he goes into tackles that most players would shun away from, gets quite a few yellow/red cards hence the injuries, a little over exuberant at times, but usually gives his all, the good thing is we have an excellent squad this year and he could struggle to regain a first team place.

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

What’s the definition of “sick note”?  Missing games or coming off during games?

Both.

The guy never seemed able to play a consecutive number of games.

[Davefevs]

Red = starts

Yellow = subs

Grey = unused subs

[Lrrr]

4 hours ago, Colemanballs said:

I'm not going to get involved in the 'is Baker a sick-note or not' debate, and whilst I recognise that he's a good defender, I'm unconvinced that he's comfortable enough on the ball to play the way Holden seems to want to play.

He can but how regular we see it is the issue, Forest away he showed he could be a perfect defender for the system.

[MarcusX]

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

I haven’t seen an injury update on either of them.

Admittedly a bit of speculation but it's safe to say Kalas probably won't be back Sunday! Dasilva seeing a specialist and could be related to last seasons injury

15 hours ago, phantom said:

Do you think he's the only player that does this? 

The number of times he's come off in the first half of a game must be up there with the worst record in professional football 

You make it sound like it happens every game. It's well documented that its a handful of times. "worst record in professional football" is pure hyperbole. Only way you can judge is on availability and he's rarely unavailable (current longer term issue aside)

15 hours ago, Andy082005 said:

You are having a laugh? Bloke spends more time on the treatment table then I spend in my own bed 

Obviously, he does not.

15 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

Still doesn't explain anything. An injury is an injury. Why does one long term injury make somebody less of a 'sicknote' than somebody with lots of minor injuries?

Unless you're saying he's been faking his injuries, which seems like a very bold statement?

Well this is the same guy who despite his apparent history of working in mental health, did continously attack Baker saying it was all in his head.

14 hours ago, Robbored said:

Baker gets lots of niggling injuries that led to him having to go off early. He’d miss a game and be back for the next before going off injured again - a real sick note.

Well put!

How many games has he missed? I'll give you some help, I've posted about it several times! I'd be more concerned about yourself, posting that you couldn't remember the last time he'd played a full 90 just a few days after completing he'd completed several 90 minutes in a row 

Shouldn't get dragged into this each time  Baker's picked up a few injuries (concussion twice) that have led him to go off on a handful of occasions. Always been available again the next game. 3rd highest appearences last season behind Bentley and Weimann. This latest one is unfortunate but its his first prolonged absence in years

[MarcusX]

11 hours ago, Robbored said:

Both.

The guy never seemed able to play a consecutive number of games.

Total nonsense, see below.

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Red = starts

Yellow = subs

Grey = unused subs

 Thanks @Davefevs p.s. the games 24-27 I'm fairly sure he was dropped rather than unavailable (i looked it up last time this came up but cba to do so again) Which would mean he was actually physically available for every game last season?

All I'm saying is NB deserves more respect than to be labelled a sick note, and abused for his injury record. He's been a very good servant for us

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

All I'm saying is NB deserves more respect than to be labelled a sick note, and abused for his injury record. He's been a very good servant for us

Absolutely he has - when he’s played. No one is questioning his ability.

Many of his injuries are down to him. He is often reckless by putting his head in where it hurts but it is frustrating when he has to come off. He was the same at Villa and they were just as frustrated as LJ was.
 

[TonyTonyTony]

Jesus, even when the stats are presented some of you still bang on. For a physical defender his injuries are about par. For the 2 seasons he has played regularly for us (last year and 17/18) he played 34 games in the championship season. 74%. 18/19 Webster took his place.

[Alan Dicks' Barmy Army]

1 hour ago, MarcusX said:

All I'm saying is NB deserves more respect than to be labelled a sick note, and abused for his injury record. He's been a very good servant for us

Don't be dramatic, nobody is "abusing" him. Pathetic over-reaction

1 hour ago, TonyTonyTony said:

Jesus, even when the stats are presented some of you still bang on. For a physical defender his injuries are about par. For the 2 seasons he has played regularly for us (last year and 17/18) he played 34 games in the championship season. 74%. 18/19 Webster took his place.

Exactly, the stats show that his record for coming off injured is the worst record at our club for decades

All this nonsense about he goes in harder, or in areas others don't is completely laughable

You may want to look back into the deeper issues surrounding Baker

[RedM]

16 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

Thats getting on for 10 of his starts where he has gone off injured in the first half then? Quite a high percentage if you ask me

It’s got to the point when I  see Baker receiving treatment I automatically look to the bench to see who is coming on, and it’s often in the first half. This of course limits how we can affect the rest of the match which is a nigh negative. And I agree he isn’t the quick thinking,ball playing player Holden might be looking to. 

Plus point if Kalas and others are injured is that the transfer window is still open. 

[RedM]

2 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Johnson gave it away in one post match interview that he doesn't know why he keeps coming off injured. He said we will have to look at that. 

Defenders get knocks all the time. It seems to me he walks off when he gets one, but Kalas, Wright etc would carry on if possible.

I think Baker is not even that injury prone. Just doesn't like to continue when he gets a knock. 

Bentley has this trait too. I think it’s psychological more than purely physical sometimes.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Johnson gave it away in one post match interview that he doesn't know why he keeps coming off injured. He said we will have to look at that. 

Defenders get knocks all the time. It seems to me he walks off when he gets one, but Kalas, Wright etc would carry on if possible.

I think Baker is not even that injury prone. Just doesn't like to continue when he gets a knock. 

Of course this current injury is a proper injury. Obviously nothing wrong with being injured for real.

As a player I'd let go for sure. I was saying I'd like to sell for a long time. What we saw the other night is what ball playing defenders can bring.

Its likely now we will let him go at the end of the season and we might then need to bring in 2 centre backs with Mawson going back to Fulham.

That's a very long way off though.

Just using your post as something to anchor off.

When Baker first came here on loan and back again permanently, I reckoned I could tell when he was gonna have a shocker by the way he warmed up.  He’d look like he was spaced out completely.  I’ve not seen that in him for 18 months.

What we will never know is what level of fitness Baker goes into a game at.  That’s both physically and mentally.  Nor will we know whether LJ ever asked him to play when he wasn’t right physically or mentally.  It’s not unreasonable for LJ to have been a bit disingenuous either.  Was he right to go public re O’Dowda or Baker....no imho.

Some players play through pain, others don’t.  I did - foolishly as it turns out, as I had to stop at 31 and my knees are absolutely knackered now.  My CB partner would never play if not 100%, in fact he could diagnose how many weeks he’d be out too....which always made me laugh.

Each player is different.

If we look at Baker’s recent in-game withdrawals.

Villa (friendly)....none of us saw it, so difficult to pass comment

Hull (home)....big clash of heads

Fulham (home)....battered by Kamara, who was late and could’ve seen red.

One final point - do we ever criticise players who get injured in training?