Dean Holden (Merged)

[lenred]

8 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It concerns me that you were still LJ in until the very end and now you’ve written that first sentence that you cannot possibly believe. 

There were rumours on here a while back that the club planted people on this forum to tow the party line and I’m struggling to see any other reason for you having suggested Holden would be the right choice. 
 

You must be able to see that the only reason he’d be appointed would be to be a yes man. 

 

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The club do have people contributing on this forum. 100% fact.

Jesus.  Funny really, if it wasn’t so sad and desperate.  

[supercidered]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK lets examine this: Firstly, not a single person on this forum has a clue what was in the job specification. It might have been unsuitable for an experienced and well known old style manager, who would prefer to buy success with other peoples money. If that ends in failure he would go to pastures new and leave a mess behind for the next chap to try to get rid of unwanted players - all of whom might be blocking progress for our young stars. Experienced big name types may want to buy success because they feel that that is the best way to get their promotion bonus - but may be a kick in the teeth to the squad we already have, who seem to really like Dean Holden. If it is him he may be a popular choice with the existing squad who might otherwise have faced an uncertain future. Of course I am just guessing about all this - but it makes as much sense as some of the more negative bilge spewed on this forum.

The board are smart, experienced and well meaning people, who understand the challenges of running a football club - in terms of players and staff as well as finances. I have faith that they will be better informed than many of the rather hysterical commentators on these subjects.  If they select Dean Holden or anyone else, I will give them my full support, because whatever I think, that is the most pragmatic course of action.

I will have a few pints of what you've been on please!

[Slacker]

1 minute ago, And Its Smith said:

Who wants Lee back?  Yes please 

No thanks.

[italian dave]

5 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It concerns me that you were still LJ in until the very end and now you’ve written that first sentence that you cannot possibly believe. 

There were rumours on here a while back that the club planted people on this forum to tow the party line and I’m struggling to see any other reason for you having suggested Holden would be the right choice. 
 

You must be able to see that the only reason he’d be appointed would be to be a yes man. 

The first sentence says that if Holden is appointed it's because the Board believe he's the best choice. Are you saying you don't believe that? That the Board would deliberately appoint someone other than the person they think is the best choice? 

You may not like the appointment, you may not think it's the best choice, you may think the reason the board think as they d is because he'd be a 'yes' man, but that's not the point.

I've avoided contributing to this thread til now because it reminds me of some kind of weird self flagellation ritual, where all the pleasure some people used to derive from lambasting LJ each week somehow has to replaced, and there's nothing else to do that work ourselves up into a frenzy about something that we know nothing about and that may or nay not happen. 

[BcfcDuncs]

2 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK lets examine this: Firstly, not a single person on this forum has a clue what was in the job specification. It might have been unsuitable for an experienced and well known old style manager, who would prefer to buy success with other peoples money. If that ends in failure he would go to pastures new and leave a mess behind for the next chap to try to get rid of unwanted players - all of whom might be blocking progress for our young stars. Experienced big name types may want to buy success because they feel that that is the best way to get their promotion bonus - but may be a kick in the teeth to the squad we already have, who seem to really like Dean Holden. If it is him he may be a popular choice with the existing squad who might otherwise have faced an uncertain future. Of course I am just guessing about all this - but it makes as much sense as some of the more negative bilge spewed on this forum.

The board are smart, experienced and well meaning people, who understand the challenges of running a football club - in terms of players and staff as well as finances. I have faith that they will be better informed than many of the rather hysterical commentators on these subjects.  If they select Dean Holden or anyone else, I will give them my full support, because whatever I think, that is the most pragmatic course of action.

Yep definitely got the clubs people on this forum.

[Olé]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

“They always shit on us”?  Really?  I’ve quite enjoyed the last few seasons and have been impressed by just how much the club has been prepared to invest. 

Chris (I think it's Chris?) - while I wouldn't use language like "shat on", in this instance I do think that's not far off what is happening to us and we're at risk of believing we're all on different sides when our priorities are the same. A stable, well run, ideally successful club operated in the interests of its supporters, not individuals. I have a lot of time for your responsible, positive outlook, but I think you're drawing a very different conclusion to me, using the exact same data. Or if I can be direct, you see a virtuous, responsible push for a young coach, I see it as anything but. 

My approach to this potential Holden appointment is straightforward. For me it confirms my worst fears about SL's intention at City - which I've covered on here already, but in essence is about indulging his control/access to football matters, through placement of utterly inexperienced people in the most skilled and critical role in the organisation, where they are both indebted to and manipulated by the owner and his appointed CEO. Great benefactor or not, in my view it's reckless, self-indulgent, and not in the interests of the club, the exact opposite of how you read it.

SL admitted this access under LJ, and as a fan of logic, I work through different scenarios to try and understand rationale and I don't see any other explanation other than SL not relinquishing that structure. Suspicion of this under LJ was tempered by his history at City and some legitimacy to his candidacy. But on what planet is Holden a legitimate candidate even if your objective is "good young coach"? He has no history or track record, his isn't known in football as a top coach, hell SL even knows good young coaches - i.e. Luke Williams headhunted by us and from us.

We are in a farcical situation where our proposed appointment wouldn't be made by a single other club at our level and probably not the level below us and ticks absolutely no boxes other than convenience and then something in my view more sinister around access and influence for the people that make that appointment. I accept you probably see this as pragmatic, stable, sensible - I am absolutely terrified that it is the total opposite. Do no alarm bells go off at all, at the unlikeliness of Holden's candidacy and the hidden agenda that might suggest is at work at the club? 

In the other bit in bold above, you highlight "investment" by City as an example of how impressed you are at their intentions. I would agree, but doesn't that evidence to you precisely the flaw in your acceptance of the approach to managers as prudent and responsible? When by your own observation it can't be about money? To me that's the opposite of prudence, it's utterly reckless to be lavishing cash on all parts of the car but finding reasons to put a novice in the driving seat. Appointing Holden would simply confirm a repeated agenda to install and prop up a puppet.

One of the taboos on OTIB is questioning SL. Funding the club affords him almost unquestioning loyalty and appreciation. I appreciate him too, and all he has spent on City, but owning the club is a privilege for him too, and I won't sit quietly when decisions blur the lines between custodian and self-indulgence. It's an easy line to highlight the reckless and disastrous ownership (foreign and otherwise) at other clubs. No one mentions Leicester, Sheff Utd, Cardiff and plenty of others have passed us by under responsible, hands-off foreign owners without any of this charade. 

[Mr Hankey]

52 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That's always been the rumour with Lansdown and City.  Hence appointments like Millen, LJ and Tinnion.  And hence appointments like Cotterill and Coppell ultimately fail. 

Holden being appointed would confirm my absolute worst fears about SLs hands-on relationship with the club. It'll always hold us back, it always has done since he took over in 2001. 

We're destined to carry on underachieving whilst he remains in charge. 

Can’t be saying things like that about Lord Lansdown, you will have a contract put out on you!

Whilst i appreaciate the good he has done for us in regard to the stadium, which by the way no longer even belongs to the club but the man himself (!), & the training ground & we could have far worse in charge.......we could also have far better! The money he has spent & we seem no closer to the prem ( for people who say “oh i dont want to see us in the prem anyway” have a ******* look at yourself before deciding you want to follow a sport, surely you want your club to be the best), plus the thought of Little Jonny having the club in the future is enough to be worried about.

If Holden is appointed, hopefully he will be a success, but what happens when he doesn’t? Will Ashton put himself in charge, will we have a situation where Jon wants to have a go at telling the manager who to play? Strange times ahead.

[exAtyeoMax]

I would’ve thought it more prudent to employ the experienced person over the novice in times of crisis? I would have thought he was better placed to deal with all aspects of running the team without relying on player trading. Surely CH isn’t that arrogant to demand the same financial backing in the midst of a global pandemic as before? 
 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK lets examine this: Firstly, not a single person on this forum has a clue what was in the job specification. It might have been unsuitable for an experienced and well known old style manager, who would prefer to buy success with other peoples money. If that ends in failure he would go to pastures new and leave a mess behind for the next chap to try to get rid of unwanted players - all of whom might be blocking progress for our young stars. Experienced big name types may want to buy success because they feel that that is the best way to get their promotion bonus - but may be a kick in the teeth to the squad we already have, who seem to really like Dean Holden. If it is him he may be a popular choice with the existing squad who might otherwise have faced an uncertain future. Of course I am just guessing about all this - but it makes as much sense as some of the more negative bilge spewed on this forum.

The board are smart, experienced and well meaning people, who understand the challenges of running a football club - in terms of players and staff as well as finances. I have faith that they will be better informed than many of the rather hysterical commentators on these subjects.  If they select Dean Holden or anyone else, I will give them my full support, because whatever I think, that is the most pragmatic course of action.

Football for me always has been and always will be about passion.  And the current set up in the board room and certainly the apparent appointment of Holden inspires none of it despite millions and millions spent.  I don’t give two flying tosses about pragmatism.  

 

[BrizzleRed]

13 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Agreed. As  much as I'm sure he'll be excited to get the job, I actually feel really sorry for him, due to all the negative reception he's getting, and it's pretty unjustified in that respect. I don't mean any of this as a dig at him at all. He might well be brilliant, I think we're just bored of being the club that takes the chance rather than letting someone else do it.

It's not his fault that genuinely better qualified candidates are about and he is the one that's chosen.

Completely agree there and really don’t envy him.

It’s incredible really, but if this happens, the club will have somehow managed to make a way less popular appointment than when they brought in LJ!

Some achievement City!!!

[Sturny]

Just now, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Who knows we might get relegated

[extonsred]

If it was to be Holden surely he would have been appointed by now. 

Is it not possible we have a foreign manager lined up - but with Brexit there is a whole sheath of new paperwork to be sorted before new long term work permits are issued?? 

Clutching at straws no doubt - its all we have left!! 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Good football?!! Did you watch any of the games?  

[City oz]

Just now, Sturny said:

Who knows we might get relegated

The mention of the word relegated should not be mentioned on OTIB. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

34 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It concerns me that you were still LJ in until the very end and now you’ve written that first sentence that you cannot possibly believe. 

There were rumours on here a while back that the club AGENTS planted people on this forum to tow the party line and I’m struggling to see any other reason for you having suggested Holden would be the right choice. 
 

You must be able to see that the only reason he’d be appointed would be to be a yes man. 

FTFY

[Jacki]

56 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That's always been the rumour with Lansdown and City.  Hence appointments like Millen, LJ and Tinnion.  And hence appointments like Cotterill and Coppell ultimately fail. 

Holden being appointed would confirm my absolute worst fears about SLs hands-on relationship with the club. It'll always hold us back, it always has done since he took over in 2001. 

We're destined to carry on underachieving whilst he remains in charge. 

I completely agree. I always tried to bury my head in the sand and assume these rumours weren’t true in the hope that someone so obviously business savvy just wouldn’t be that daft.

The more this goes on though, the more I think it must have merit. Someone earlier mentioned Angus Scott alluding to this, and I remember Flapper Phillips saying similar. When Phillips came out with it I dismissed it as a bitter ex player, and a gas one at that. But if Holden ends up getting this job it’s all the confirmation I need to believe it to be true. No manager worth having would put up with it and that’s why, despite spending fortunes on players and infrastructure over the years, we’ve always ended up with the managers we have.

if we get Hughton, however, it would give hope that he’s ripping it up and starting again

[Bat Fastard]

8 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It concerns me that you were still LJ in until the very end and now you’ve written that first sentence that you cannot possibly believe. 

There were rumours on here a while back that the club planted people on this forum to tow the party line and I’m struggling to see any other reason for you having suggested Holden would be the right choice. 
 

You must be able to see that the only reason he’d be appointed would be to be a yes man. 

OK you have caught me - I am a Russian spy!!  

I believed that Lee had lost Webster and then Brownhill, both key players and we had not found adequate replacements.  Injuries to Afobe, Kalas and DaSilva and ongoing injuries to our two best remaining midfield players were the facts that made last season difficult for Lee.  I thought he should have been allowed to continue because he was a very bright, honest and hard working head coach.  That just happens to be my opinion because I have seen so many management changes over the years and think they are frequently disasters that leave fragmented squads of players when changes happen. We have all seen this and that is the reason for our club trying to do things differently.  Every time a manager/head coach loses a few games people call for him to be sacked.  That is no way to run a stable organisation and the baying masses on the forum are frequently a cause for total negativity rather than undying love and support. I love my club and have done for well over 50years and will support come what may. I try to be more positive in my views than many on here. Its the way I am!

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Johnson could’ve done that but he was expected to achieve playoffs and was sacked. Why would the club lower their expectations all of a sudden?

[Mr Hankey]

1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Relying on youth can go terribly wrong, we have no idea if Morrell, Walsh, Vyner (certainly doesnt look it) & Moore will be up to scratch. If it goes wrong first few games and our season turns in to a dogfight will they hide & all confidence drain? I wouldnt be confident in this route, the Championship is a hell of a tough league. Youth doesnt always work, rarely unless you are a United or Arsenal.

[mozo]

3 minutes ago, Olé said:

Chris (I think it's Chris?) - while I wouldn't use language like "shat on", in this instance I do think that's not far off what is happening to us and we're at risk of believing we're all on different sides when our priorities are the same. A stable, well run, ideally successful club operated in the interests of its supporters, not individuals. I have a lot of time for your responsible, positive outlook, but I think you're drawing a very different conclusion to me, using the exact same data. Or if I can be direct, you see a virtuous, responsible push for a young coach, I see it as anything but. 

My approach to this potential Holden appointment is straightforward. For me it confirms my worst fears about SL's intention at City - which I've covered on here already, but in essence is about indulging his control/access to football matters, through placement of utterly inexperienced people in the most skilled and critical role in the organisation, where they are both indebted to and manipulated by the owner and his appointed CEO. Great benefactor or not, in my view it's reckless, self-indulgent, and not in the interests of the club, the exact opposite of how you read it.

SL admitted this access under LJ, and as a fan of logic, I work through different scenarios to try and understand rationale and I don't see any other explanation other than SL not relinquishing that structure. Suspicion of this under LJ was tempered by his history at City and some legitimacy to his candidacy. But on what planet is Holden a legitimate candidate even if your objective is "good young coach"? He has no history or track record, his isn't known in football as a top coach, hell SL even knows good young coaches - i.e. Luke Williams headhunted by us and from us.

We are in a farcical situation where our proposed appointment wouldn't be made by a single other club at our level and probably not the level below us and ticks absolutely no boxes other than convenience and then something in my view more sinister around access and influence for the people that make that appointment. I accept you probably see this as pragmatic, stable, sensible - I am absolutely terrified that it is the total opposite. Do no alarm bells go off at all, at the unlikeliness of Holden's candidacy and the hidden agenda that might suggest is at work at the club? 

In the other bit in bold above, you highlight "investment" by City as an example of how impressed you are at their intentions. I would agree, but doesn't that evidence to you precisely the flaw in your acceptance of the approach to managers as prudent and responsible? When by your own observation it can't be about money? To me that's the opposite of prudence, it's utterly reckless to be lavishing cash on all parts of the car but finding reasons to put a novice in the driving seat. Appointing Holden would simply confirm a repeated agenda to install and prop up a puppet.

One of the taboos on OTIB is questioning SL. Funding the club affords him almost unquestioning loyalty and appreciation. I appreciate him too, and all he has spent on City, but owning the club is a privilege for him too, and I won't sit quietly when decisions blur the lines between custodian and self-indulgence. It's an easy line to highlight the reckless and disastrous ownership (foreign and otherwise) at other clubs. No one mentions Leicester, Sheff Utd, Cardiff and plenty of others have passed us by under responsible, hands-off foreign owners without any of this charade. 

Wonderfully put my man

[Kibs]

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Well, that remains to be seen. He might do well but equally, he might struggle to attract players, we might end up in the lower half or fighting relegation and all the hard work of increasing the profile/reputation of the club, where we were thought of as having genuine ambitions of Premier League football, allowing us to attract some very good players, could well set us back years.

[miloemily]

Nothing against Holden if he is appointed but I think city should look at the Middlesbrough shambles of a season. Appointing a novice manager. Woodgate was awful and they were saved by Warnock. It will happen here I’m sorry to say. 

[nebristolred]

The club are daft enough to take 5 weeks to find a successor, but yet they are competent enough to have a complex series of plants on here to try and gauge and even sway fan opinion.

I can't believe this site is free  

[Major Isewater]

49 minutes ago, Coppello said:

The club really are taking the piss now:

Harry Dolman is an anagram of Marry Holdan. They really are just taunting the fans. 

I bet old Harry is turning in his grave right now .

[Robbored]

I must admit that I’m finding the whole managerial appointment very tiresome.....................

[The Coach]

1 minute ago, ReggyRed said:

All positivity has been completely drained from me regarding our football club

Agreed. As fans, we’ve been too positive and sat back for far too long. It’s about time we echo our frustrations to the club. 

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, nebristolred said:

The club are daft enough to take 5 weeks to find a successor, but yet they are competent enough to have a complex series of plants on here to try and gauge and even sway fan opinion.

I can't believe this site is free  

I wouldn't give them the credit of trying to sway fan opinion, completely agree with you on that. But there are club staff on here no doubt about that. Well, I know it's a fact for a start!!

I also agree with you that the club are daft!!!!!!

[Kibs]

6 minutes ago, extonsred said:

If it was to be Holden surely he would have been appointed by now. 

Is it not possible we have a foreign manager lined up - but with Brexit there is a whole sheath of new paperwork to be sorted before new long term work permits are issued?? 

Clutching at straws no doubt - its all we have left!! 

It's the hope that kills you. But that's what supporting Bristol City is all about isn't it!? 

[Major Isewater]

1 minute ago, nebristolred said:

The club are daft enough to take 5 weeks to find a successor, but yet they are competent enough to have a complex series of plants on here to try and gauge and even sway fan opinion.

I can't believe this site is free  

I believe they appointed Holden five weeks ago but haven’t found a plausible reason to offer the public yet . I am sure they’re working on it.

 

[sludge]

23 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It concerns me that you were still LJ in until the very end and now you’ve written that first sentence that you cannot possibly believe. 

There were rumours on here a while back that the club planted people on this forum to tow the party line and I’m struggling to see any other reason for you having suggested Holden would be the right choice. 
 

You must be able to see that the only reason he’d be appointed would be to be a yes man. 

I was LJ 'in' until the very end...............but that's because I was worried that Jamie Mac would be his replacement! 

[Cannybluff]

1 hour ago, keflav said:

As i tweeted my response to this was, that has been the problem for many a year with Bristol city, we don't need the Manager to be popular or friendly with the squad (ok sometime it helps but not a necessity) unfortunately seems its been like this way to many times seems player think its an easy ride at City and can just plod along whatever happens, and players are to pally with the manager... we need a manager who pushes the players and makes them succeed, and if that means not being massively popular off the pitch with the players then so be it. of course not asking for a manager who is a A££whole, but someone who is tough and make the players we have better... If it is DH then as I said before its the most Bristol City thing Little Bristol city have done, and shows the mentality of the club and managment...

So you would be happier if the tweet said nobody likes him?

[Major Isewater]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I must admit that I’m finding the whole managerial appointment very tiresome.....................

A taste of your own medicine according to some of your opponents. 
 

[RedRock]

2 minutes ago, miloemily said:

Nothing against Holden if he is appointed but I think city should look at the Middlesbrough shambles of a season. Appointing a novice manager. Woodgate was awful and they were saved by Warnock. It will happen here I’m sorry to say. 

Now then.

Vote Holden. Suddenly in the ‘Golden Holden’ camp. 

 

How long do I have to wait until I get Warnock please? 

Can you imagine Neil putting up with this load of ‘behind the scenes’ shambles on any matter if he was manager?  A true breath of fresh air. 

 

 

[Northern Red]

3 minutes ago, sludge said:

I was LJ 'in' until the very end...............but that's because I was worried that Jamie Mac would be his replacement! 

He's next in line after Holden...

[Portland Bill]

I think we have a top Spanish manager coming, but he needs to self isolate for 14 days before doing his press conference.

[IAmNick]

Perhaps a new man wants to bring in his own assistant meaning Holden is on the way out, as that's the only way the club could get the new man in (and that's what the hold up has been).

The players are retweeting that article in support of the fact that Holden is very popular - not because he's about to become manager.

I'm clutching at straws here...

[Hazelboy]

Just now, Redpool said:

Agreed. As fans, we’ve been too positive and sat back for far too long. It’s about time we echo our frustrations to the club. 

100%

Unfortunately the majority will continue plodding down to Ashton Gate, giving the club their undeserved backing. 

'Get behind Deano', board only doing what they think is right etc.

No interest anymore, fed up of being treated like customers. Time for a long break from the club when this is announced.  Sad as its been a major part of my life for the last 30 years. Never mind

[2015]

25 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It concerns me that you were still LJ in until the very end and now you’ve written that first sentence that you cannot possibly believe. 

There were rumours on here a while back that the club planted people on this forum to tow the party line and I’m struggling to see any other reason for you having suggested Holden would be the right choice. 
 

You must be able to see that the only reason he’d be appointed would be to be a yes man. 

Bristol City FC. In other words Bristol Secret Police City FC if true

[Abraham Romanovich]

23 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

It concerns me that you were still LJ in until the very end and now you’ve written that first sentence that you cannot possibly believe. 

There were rumours on here a while back that the club planted people on this forum to tow the party line and I’m struggling to see any other reason for you having suggested Holden would be the right choice. 

. 

Blimey , a conspiracy theory .

My own view after reading some late night ramblings that a fair few posters are sponsored by breweries.

[nebristolred]

5 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

I wouldn't give them the credit of trying to sway fan opinion, completely agree with you on that. But there are club staff on here no doubt about that. Well, I know it's a fact for a start!!

I also agree with you that the club are daft!!!!!!

Yeah I was just exaggerating really as a joke. Of course staff will be on here, totally get that.

[Son of Fred]

6 minutes ago, Redpool said:

Agreed. As fans, we’ve been too positive and sat back for far too long. It’s about time we echo our frustrations to the club. 

Vote with your feet!...

Ah,,I mean your 'visa debit.

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Perhaps a new man wants to bring in his own assistant meaning Holden is on the way out, as that's the only way the club could get the new man in (and that's what the hold up has been).

The players are retweeting that article in support of the fact that Holden is very popular - not because he's about to become manager.

I'm clutching at straws here...

Here’s hoping!!

[The Coach]

2 minutes ago, Portland Bill said:

I think we have a top Spanish manager coming, but he needs to self isolate for 14 days before doing his press conference.

Heard it’s Leo Johnsontina 

[bcfc01]

19 minutes ago, One Team said:

I agree with the sentiment, I think it’s based on the news from Gregor and the reaction of the bookies with Holden clear favourite at 4/9.

It won’t be his fault he gets appointed of course, and who can blame him for applying, but it’s a good job we aren’t able to attend games at the moment as I could see the crowd reaction being negative immediately. 

Hopefully this is all a smoke screen and Hughton gets the job. 

I'm not sure if you mean towards Holden ? If so, I would disagree - the vast majority of right minded people would support him in my opinion and reserve any animosity for the board. 

You'll always have the usual  entitled types with complete lack of perspective who go over the top, but they are always in the vast minority as they are in society thank God. They're just mouthy gobshites who will be enjoying this, nothing more than that.

The majority are just concerned that the club have missed an opportunity and are pissed off about it and concerned it may set the club back and I can't see them having a go at Holden himself, but he does need to hit the ground running if appointed.

Anyway, it may yet be Hughton 

 

 

 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

A taste of your own medicine according to some of your opponents. 
 

They have the option of putting me on ignore -I can’t  do that with City.

[LondonBristolian]

11 minutes ago, Olé said:

Chris (I think it's Chris?) - while I wouldn't use language like "shat on", in this instance I do think that's not far off what is happening to us and we're at risk of believing we're all on different sides when our priorities are the same. A stable, well run, ideally successful club operated in the interests of its supporters, not individuals. I have a lot of time for your responsible, positive outlook, but I think you're drawing a very different conclusion to me, using the exact same data. Or if I can be direct, you see a virtuous, responsible push for a young coach, I see it as anything but. 

My approach to this potential Holden appointment is straightforward. For me it confirms my worst fears about SL's intention at City - which I've covered on here already, but in essence is about indulging his control/access to football matters, through placement of utterly inexperienced people in the most skilled and critical role in the organisation, where they are both indebted to and manipulated by the owner and his appointed CEO. Great benefactor or not, in my view it's reckless, self-indulgent, and not in the interests of the club, the exact opposite of how you read it.

SL admitted this access under LJ, and as a fan of logic, I work through different scenarios to try and understand rationale and I don't see any other explanation other than SL not relinquishing that structure. Suspicion of this under LJ was tempered by his history at City and some legitimacy to his candidacy. But on what planet is Holden a legitimate candidate even if your objective is "good young coach"? He has no history or track record, his isn't known in football as a top coach, hell SL even knows good young coaches - i.e. Luke Williams headhunted by us and from us.

We are in a farcical situation where our proposed appointment wouldn't be made by a single other club at our level and probably not the level below us and ticks absolutely no boxes other than convenience and then something in my view more sinister around access and influence for the people that make that appointment. I accept you probably see this as pragmatic, stable, sensible - I am absolutely terrified that it is the total opposite. Do no alarm bells go off at all, at the unlikeliness of Holden's candidacy and the hidden agenda that might suggest is at work at the club? 

In the other bit in bold above, you highlight "investment" by City as an example of how impressed you are at their intentions. I would agree, but doesn't that evidence to you precisely the flaw in your acceptance of the approach to managers as prudent and responsible? When by your own observation it can't be about money? To me that's the opposite of prudence, it's utterly reckless to be lavishing cash on all parts of the car but finding reasons to put a novice in the driving seat. Appointing Holden would simply confirm a repeated agenda to install and prop up a puppet.

One of the taboos on OTIB is questioning SL. Funding the club affords him almost unquestioning loyalty and appreciation. I appreciate him too, and all he has spent on City, but owning the club is a privilege for him too, and I won't sit quietly when decisions blur the lines between custodian and self-indulgence. It's an easy line to highlight the reckless and disastrous ownership (foreign and otherwise) at other clubs. No one mentions Leicester, Sheff Utd, Cardiff and plenty of others have passed us by under responsible, hands-off foreign owners without any of this charade. 

If I recall, during his time with us, Holden's name has been linked with vacant jobs at Oldham, Walsall and Bolton. Whilst I'd concede it is possible that all those clubs approached him and turned them down, it certainly appears that he was not seriously considered by the boards of any of those three clubs. It is certainly an alarming sign if we are appointing a manager that Bolton, Oldham and Walsall all decided not to even shortlist.

[Desso]

I've read many times on here that DH was part of the old failed regime. Yes he was but we don't know if he agreed with it. I didn't know LJ but he came across as a "my way or the highway" type. We dont know if DH disagreed with the way he did things or the team selection, and wasn't allowed to say.

I was pretty impressed by the team after LJ left. They looked rejuvenated and up for it. Having said that, I'm disappointed that a proven manager has probably been overlooked but I think DH deserves a chance. 

Just going now to put my tin hat on.

 

[2015]

12 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK you have caught me - I am a Russian spy!!  

I believed that Lee had lost Webster and then Brownhill, both key players and we had not found adequate replacements.  Injuries to Afobe, Kalas and DaSilva and ongoing injuries to our two best remaining midfield players were the facts that made last season difficult for Lee.  I thought he should have been allowed to continue because he was a very bright, honest and hard working head coach.  That just happens to be my opinion because I have seen so many management changes over the years and think they are frequently disasters that leave fragmented squads of players when changes happen. We have all seen this and that is the reason for our club trying to do things differently.  Every time a manager/head coach loses a few games people call for him to be sacked.  That is no way to run a stable organisation and the baying masses on the forum are frequently a cause for total negativity rather than undying love and support. I love my club and have done for well over 50years and will support come what may. I try to be more positive in my views than many on here. Its the way I am!

Defeats were not the problem by many of us LJ outers. It was the style of football, the endless shocking home performances and his embarassing quips in post match interviews.

Holden and Jamie Mac should have gone with him.

[Bat Fastard]

4 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

Blimey , a conspiracy theory .

My own view after reading some late night ramblings that a fair few posters are sponsored by breweries.

In this case it was a fair cop though.  I have always loved conspiracy theories.

[One Team]

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I'm not sure if you mean towards Holden ? If so, I would disagree - the vast majority of right minded people would support him in my opinion and reserve any animosity for the board. 

You'll always have the usual  entitled types with complete lack of perspective who go over the top, but they are always in the vast minority as they are in society thank God. They're just mouthy gobshites who will be enjoying this, nothing more than that.

The majority are just concerned that the club have missed an opportunity and are pissed off about it and concerned it may set the club back and I can't see them having a go at Holden himself, but he does need to hit the ground running if appointed.

Anyway, it may yet be Hughton 

 

 

 

No, not towards Holden directly.

It won’t be his fault he gets the job, any venom will be directed at SL and MA I would think. 

Hopefully we are all concerned about nothing here and it will be Hughton.

[lenred]

2 minutes ago, Desso said:

I've read many times on here that DH was part of the old failed regime. Yes he was but we don't know if he agreed with it. I didn't know LJ but he came across as a "my way or the highway" type. We dont know if DH agreed with the way he did things or the team selection, and wasn't allowed to say.

I was pretty impressed by the team after LJ left. They looked rejuvenated and up for it. Having said that, I'm disappointed that a proven manager has probably been overlooked but I think DH deserves a chance. 

Just going now to put my tin hat on.

 

The perfect ‘yes man’ then in other words? 

[keflav]

7 minutes ago, Cannybluff said:

So you would be happier if the tweet said nobody likes him?

FFS you know that not what I'm saying, trying to make a point about the perceived club culture of players having it easy etc etc. don't try and spin it into something different...  

[Redrascal2]

13 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

OK lets examine this: Firstly, not a single person on this forum has a clue what was in the job specification. It might have been unsuitable for an experienced and well known old style manager, who would prefer to buy success with other peoples money. If that ends in failure he would go to pastures new and leave a mess behind for the next chap to try to get rid of unwanted players - all of whom might be blocking progress for our young stars. Experienced big name types may want to buy success because they feel that that is the best way to get their promotion bonus - but may be a kick in the teeth to the squad we already have, who seem to really like Dean Holden. If it is him he may be a popular choice with the existing squad who might otherwise have faced an uncertain future. Of course I am just guessing about all this - but it makes as much sense as some of the more negative bilge spewed on this forum.

The board are smart, experienced and well meaning people, who understand the challenges of running a football club - in terms of players and staff as well as finances. I have faith that they will be better informed than many of the rather hysterical commentators on these subjects.  If they select Dean Holden or anyone else, I will give them my full support, because whatever I think, that is the most pragmatic course of action.

Lansdown is experienced in failing regularly to pick good managers for Bristol City. And it seems he will carry this on with Holden. Why this is I can only guess. Maybe he has an arrogant belief that he knows best and will not listen to others. But to describe this as pragmatism I would say is misguided and way off the mark.

[2015]

4 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I'm not sure if you mean towards Holden ? If so, I would disagree - the vast majority of right minded people would support him in my opinion and reserve any animosity for the board. 

You'll always have the usual  entitled types with complete lack of perspective who go over the top, but they are always in the vast minority as they are in society thank God. They're just mouthy gobshites who will be enjoying this, nothing more than that.

The majority are just concerned that the club have missed an opportunity and are pissed off about it and concerned it may set the club back and I can't see them having a go at Holden himself, but he does need to hit the ground running if appointed.

Anyway, it may yet be Hughton 

 

 

 

Fans are frustrated due to the lack of ambition by our club and the lies Lansdown made on air to talksport. We have seen this happen too many times now with the club. 

I think City fans are not an entitled bunch you think we are, we just cannot fathom how it has ended up in all likelihood with LJ's assistant. No entitlement there.

If you're happy with Holden good for you, but expect a season of struggle, poor defeats and performances and fan upheaval.

In my opinion you are burying your head in the sand if you are still trying to find positives in the club if this appointment is made. 

[Major Isewater]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

They have the option of putting me on ignore -I can’t  do that with City.

I share your pain Robbored.

[Son of Fred]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

Your just repeating yourself over & over - the theckless over optimism is ridiculous in the face of a wall of information & the history here at this club,,this very mistake being made on other none too distant occasion's should be enough to inform..

Are you sure your not on drugs?

[Finley_Smith10]

Nothing to be positive about regarding this appointment when Chris Hughton’s the stand out candidate, cheap option and fans have lost trust and faith in the board 

[supercidered]

19 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Like I said, Holden for 12 months to play the youth with the seniors. Bring in a few in the window. Play good football like it looked in some of those recent games.

No harm done. Who knows he might even do really well. 

The Championship is a unforgiving place. Trusting youth and Holden who to my knowledge is unproven at anything anywhere let alone at this level. Then you say play good football like in recent times? There were a few patches of ok football and only if it is compared to the tripe that we have seen in recent and not so recent times.

There is a likelihood of real harm being done here. I'm not just worried but I'm terrified of that harm.

[Bat Fastard]

2 minutes ago, 2015 said:

Defeats were not the problem by many of us LJ outers. It was the style of football, the endless shocking home performances and his embarassing quips in post match interviews.

Holden and Jamie Mac should have gone with him.

Yes it was poor but there were clearly reasons behind this - some blamed Lee and I thought it was down to player sales and injuries. We are a selling club trying to develop our own players and this kind of thing is to be expected.  Changing the manager can disrupt the whole ethos of the club and I like the idea of seeing young players coming through and understand that this will sometimes be problematic. This puts pressure on the manager to only pick experienced players and that is not going to help development. If the last season was poor, there has certainly been progress before then and I felt optimistic about the future with Lee. Fan hysteria did for him in the end. I feel it was a mistake personally.

[bcfc01]

Just now, 2015 said:

Fans are frustrated due to the lack of ambition by our club and the lies Lansdown made on air to talksport. We have seen this happen too many times now with the club. 

I think City fans are not an entitled bunch you think we are, we just cannot fathom how it has ended up in all likelihood with LJ's assistant. No entitlement there.

If you're happy with Holden good for you, but expect a season of struggle, poor defeats and performances and fan upheaval.

In my opinion you are burying your head in the sand if you are still trying to find positives in the club if this appointment is made. 

Perfect illustration of how to completely misread a post.

 

[Cannybluff]

3 minutes ago, keflav said:

FFS you know that not what I'm saying, trying to make a point about the perceived club culture of players having it easy etc etc. don't try and spin it into something different...  

Well, I agree with your points that being popular isn't a totally necessary prerequisite. However, I don't really believe that the process is in anyway related to it. It seemed you were saying he was being appointed due to his popularity? FWIW if Holden is appointed I will find it rather baffling that it has taken so long given our extensive search, home and abroad for an exciting manager. I feel we would have already known that holden was better than them all should that be the case.

[Bat Fastard]

4 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

Lansdown is experienced in failing regularly to pick good managers for Bristol City. And it seems he will carry this on with Holden. Why this is I can only guess. Maybe he has an arrogant belief that he knows best and will not listen to others. But to describe this as pragmatism I would say is misguided and way off the mark.

We have progressed. Steve Cotterill was good in the promotion season and Lee Johnson improved us. The last 5 or 6 years have not been at all bad when you consider our history.

[2015]

Just now, Bat Fastard said:

Yes it was poor but there were clearly reasons behind this - some blamed Lee and I thought it was down to player sales and injuries. We are a selling club trying to develop our own players and this kind of thing is to be expected.  Changing the manager can disrupt the whole ethos of the club and I like the idea of seeing young players coming through and understand that this will sometimes be problematic. This puts pressure on the manager to only pick experienced players and that is not going to help development. If the last season was poor, there has certainly been progress before then and I felt optimistic about the future with Lee. Fan hysteria did for him in the end. I feel it was a mistake personally.

The reasons were Lee Johnson, in my opinion. Our style of football and any excitement went down the pan in January 2018, I have not since then seen a fluent City team. 
Having young players come through is all well and good, only if they are good enough, the Championship is a tough and unforgiving league, not like League 1 or League 2 where young players have more time to grow and where mistakes go unpunished. If we have a team full of academy products, we will likely be in the bottom 6 majority of the season. 
There was no hysteria, just fans who were simply fed up of dire tactics, poor football, combined with us then losing games. 

But it's all good, we're appointing his assistant

[Major Isewater]

11 minutes ago, Desso said:

I've read many times on here that DH was part of the old failed regime. Yes he was but we don't know if he agreed with it. I didn't know LJ but he came across as a "my way or the highway" type. We dont know if DH disagreed with the way he did things or the team selection, and wasn't allowed to say.

I was pretty impressed by the team after LJ left. They looked rejuvenated and up for it. Having said that, I'm disappointed that a proven manager has probably been overlooked but I think DH deserves a chance. 

Just going now to put my tin hat on.

 

May I suggest this outfit following your post? 
 

[2015]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

We have progressed. Steve Cotterill was good in the promotion season and Lee Johnson improved us. The last 5 or 6 years have not been at all bad when you consider our history.

But for the past 2 years we have stagnated

[Banjo Island]

1 minute ago, super slick said:

100%

Unfortunately the majority will continue plodding down to Ashton Gate, giving the club their undeserved backing. 

'Get behind Deano', board only doing what they think is right etc.

No interest anymore, fed up of being treated like customers. Time for a long break from the club when this is announced.  Sad as its been a major part of my life for the last 30 years. Never mind

I feel your pain slick i can top trump your 30 years its 50 years plus for me me and the family havent renewed our season tickets yet but have picked out our seats for coming season we usually book a table in sports bar and guzzle down copius pints of beer and pizzas was very excited at the prospect of stevie G and chris hughton sadly and no disrespect to dean holden most of the family are deflated and dont want to renew sadly i wont be heading back to the gate if dh is appointed iam gutted even with the dire fooball on show i loved my big day out at the gate fingers crossed they pull an awe inspiring appoitment out of the bag that will get the juices flowing again CTID

[Phileas Fogg]

The most interesting aspect would be whether there’s a shift in expectations. You’d assume if we went for Hughton we’d be expecting top 6. I think that’s reasonable given his CV.

As in my reply to @JonDolman, LJ was expected to achieve top 6 and was sacked when it was (as good as) mathematically impossible. It stands to reason Holden should have these same expectations.

It feels an enormous gamble to entrust a tough target to such an inexperienced manager. Would the board be so inconsistent as to shift targets for Holden?

[Jacki]

1 hour ago, desert said:

If the Board (Lansdown) do appoint Holden then they should be ashamed of how they have managed the process. It will give him the worst possible starting point and foundation for doing what must be a hugely challenging and exciting step in his career. He will face anger, disappointment and, in some unfortunate cases, probably abuse from the fan base that he is there to serve. He will be under massive negative pressure from the start and that stuff influences confidence and decision making in managers. Few people give of their best under these conditions.
None of this is his fault. This will be entirely the responsibility of a Board that have clearly made a complete pigs ear of this process.

if I was Holden, despite the temptation of this opportunity, I would be asking myself if I really wanted to accept the offer to be set up to fail. He has been through a lot in his life. He knows what is important and what isn’t. Is dealing with this plate of crap the Board have handed him worth the stress?

Of course they may appoint Hughton in which case ignore the above.

Absolutely spot on and, if Holden does end up accepting the role he personally doesn’t deserve any stick for doing so. The vast majority would do the same in his position.

And if he did turn it down who could blame him? It feels like a proper hospital pass now and he could go on leading a relatively hassle free life as a number two earning good money and living with a lot less stress.

 

[Abingdon Red]

I've reached the point where I dont care any more, just appoint someone who will get the team to play better football and who will give the academy players much more first team opportunities and I'll be happy.

[Bar BS3]

I really hope the Holden takes us up and some of the posters on this thread look back at it and apologise for being utterly embarrassing..!