AG Redevelopment latest

[Merrick's Marvels]

53 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

The Wickes parking thread got me thinking about this - it seems to have been an age since anything was released around it - anyone got any ideas or know anyone involved? Might be quite some while til we get to watch the Flyers in action in BS3 @Davefevs @SuperDziek

Was in Wickes recently and they confirmed they've been given a date by which to vacate, not that I can remember it!

I do remember thinking "that's not long" though. Apologies if this is old news - not read the Wickes parking thread. 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

4 minutes ago, Wiltshire robin said:

I don’t believe that , we’d sell out every game in the prem other than maybe Bournemouth.

Presumably with the addition of many plastics. Other than the novelty of a first season there is nothing to suggest we could maintain a crowd if 26k. We celebrate the sale of 14k season tickets. It hurts me to say it but for a City the size of Bristol that's pathetic. Cities and towns much smaller than Bristol support sides with consistently larger support than ourselves. We have a really large catchment area compared to many. It's not as if we we sit in the shadow of much larger clubs as they do in London, the Midlands or in North West England. 

[Wiltshire robin]

6 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Presumably with the addition of many plastics. Other than the novelty of a first season there is nothing to suggest we could maintain a crowd if 26k. We celebrate the sale of 14k season tickets. It hurts me to say it but for a City the size of Bristol that's pathetic. Cities and towns much smaller than Bristol support sides with consistently larger support than ourselves. We have a really large catchment area compared to many. It's not as if we we sit in the shadow of much larger clubs as they do in London, the Midlands or in North West England. 

You are right in what you say about our support being poor for a team in a city like Bristol but with prem football it would increase massively , even if it was for a few years it would create a whole new generation of city followers 

[Bris Red]

20 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Presumably with the addition of many plastics. Other than the novelty of a first season there is nothing to suggest we could maintain a crowd if 26k. We celebrate the sale of 14k season tickets. It hurts me to say it but for a City the size of Bristol that's pathetic. Cities and towns much smaller than Bristol support sides with consistently larger support than ourselves. We have a really large catchment area compared to many. It's not as if we we sit in the shadow of much larger clubs as they do in London, the Midlands or in North West England. 

I’d spin it the other way though and say that in actual fact for a club that has had so little success and hasn’t been in the topflight for over 40 years to be pulling in an average attendance of 20k plus most weeks is very impressive..

Catchment area means nothing its generational success and a sustained period of time in the topflight that grows a fanbase and as i said all that considered we are a well supported football club imho.

[Bristol Oil Services]

Leicester City have sought permission to extend their ground by 8,000 seats. I think Wolfs are looking to increase their capacity to 50,000. Bournemouth want to build a new stand at one end. West Ham and Tottenham have a lot more seats than ten years ago. Liverpool have developed Anfield,  adding capacity. 

The idea that TV money in the Prem pays for everything is fanciful. If Ashton Gate stays at 26,000 for football  (which it probably will) that might one day be seen as standing still.

If we somehow made it to the Prem, games v Liverpool and one or two others could attract 40,000, I would say.

 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

9 minutes ago, bris red said:

I’d spin it the other way though and say that in actual fact for a club that has had so little success and hasn’t been in the topflight for over 40 years to be pulling in an average attendance of 20k plus most weeks is very impressive..

Catchment area means nothing its generational success and a sustained period of time in the topflight that grows a fanbase and as i said all that considered we are a well supported football club imho.

You make some valid points but we don't average 20k most weeks, only when there is a sizeable away following. If you deduct away fans from the total gate we average 18/19k and that includes some 14k ST holders whether they turn up or not. 

[Pezo]

It would be interesting to see a team like Newcastle's average attendance per season over the last 50 years.

They have been a nothing team with gates of 13k in that time, I'm fairly sure it's only when they were promoted and then challenged under Keegan that they attracted more support, that support dropped when they were relegated but not by as much as it increased when they were promoted.

[bcfc01]

8 minutes ago, Pezo said:

It would be interesting to see a team like Newcastle's average attendance per season over the last 50 years.

They have been a nothing team with gates of 13k in that time, I'm fairly sure it's only when they were promoted and then challenged under Keegan that they attracted more support, that support dropped when they were relegated but not by as much as it increased when they were promoted.

Urban myth - they have fantastic support.

You'd have to go back to the late 19th century to see Newcastle have an average that low.

The stadium was developed over the years so a big jump around those development times.

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/newu.htm

Edited July 13, 2022 by bcfc01

[Kodjias Wrist]

27 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

You make some valid points but we don't average 20k most weeks, only when there is a sizeable away following. If you deduct away fans from the total gate we average 18/19k and that includes some 14k ST holders whether they turn up or not. 

Interesting snippet from an article below on Cardiff's recent attendances. Considering how similar our attendance is to theirs, I think we could see sellouts most games but if we find ourselves fighting for our lives in the prem for a few seasons it would naturally drop:

So far this season, Cardiff have averaged an attendance of 18,748 in their South Wales home, which is of course higher than the previous campaign with Covid-19 preventing fans from attending stadia.

The season prior, the figure stood at 22,822, with the impact of the pandemic likely to have played a big part in people’s lifestyle choices.

During the 2018/19 campaign, Cardiff’s average attendance stood at 31,407, with the Bluebirds in the Premier League, which ranked as the 11th highest in England’s top-flight.

[Pezo]

5 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Urban myth - they have fantastic support.

You'd have to go back to the late 19th century to see Newcastle have an average that low.

The stadium was developed over the years so a big jump around those development times.

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/newu.htm

I think the data in the link you posted actually agree with the point I was trying to make. They get relegated they had a poor season the attendance drops off a clif they finish 2nd or 3rd in the top league and they sell out. It's success that gets them the attendances not the catchment area.

The reason I picked Newcastle is because historically they are one of those teams that can finish anywhere in the top league but also in the 2nd tier as well.

[Barrs Court Red]

Apparently it’s not worth expanding to anything below 40k. Which I don’t think is possible at AG. 

[The Bard]

57 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Leicester City have sought permission to extend their ground by 8,000 seats. I think Wolfs are looking to increase their capacity to 50,000. Bournemouth want to build a new stand at one end. West Ham and Tottenham have a lot more seats than ten years ago. Liverpool have developed Anfield,  adding capacity. 

The idea that TV money in the Prem pays for everything is fanciful. If Ashton Gate stays at 26,000 for football  (which it probably will) that might one day be seen as standing still.

If we somehow made it to the Prem, games v Liverpool and one or two others could attract 40,000, I would say.

 

One of the houses on Ashton Road was on the market recently for upwards of £600k.  I think there are 18 such houses behind the Atyeo. There's no chance Steve Lansdown would fork out that plus the obvious cost of building  to expand capacity to at most 35000.

There's scope to add maybe 1500 to 2000 to capacity by knocking down the Atyeo, and wrapping around, but that would cost probably £15 million+.

[semblar]

5 minutes ago, The Bard said:

One of the houses on Ashton Road was on the market recently for upwards of £600k.  I think there are 18 such houses behind the Atyeo. There's no chance Steve Lansdown would fork out that plus the obvious cost of building  to expand capacity to at most 35000.

There's scope to add maybe 1500 to 2000 to capacity by knocking down the Atyeo, and wrapping around, but that would cost probably £15 million+.

I would imagine the purchase prices would skyrocket if a serious plan to do this became known about - imagine what the last one could hold out for...

[Kodjias Wrist]

5 minutes ago, The Bard said:

One of the houses on Ashton Road was on the market recently for upwards of £600k.  I think there are 18 such houses behind the Atyeo. There's no chance Steve Lansdown would fork out that plus the obvious cost of building  to expand capacity to at most 35000.

There's scope to add maybe 1500 to 2000 to capacity by knocking down the Atyeo, and wrapping around, but that would cost probably £15 million+.

I thought the original plans for the redevelopment showed the Gwr section or bottom tier of Dolman as a safe standing section. Together with the bottom tiers of the south stand brought the capacity to 29000.

[TV Tom]

13 minutes ago, The Bard said:

One of the houses on Ashton Road was on the market recently for upwards of £600k.  I think there are 18 such houses behind the Atyeo. There's no chance Steve Lansdown would fork out that plus the obvious cost of building  to expand capacity to at most 35000.

There's scope to add maybe 1500 to 2000 to capacity by knocking down the Atyeo, and wrapping around, but that would cost probably £15 million+.

Buying those houses would cost less than 15 million, it’s all pie in the sky though

[TV Tom]

49 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Urban myth - they have fantastic support.

You'd have to go back to the late 19th century to see Newcastle have an average that low.

The stadium was developed over the years so a big jump around those development times.

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/newu.htm

They do have fantastic support but I remember City playing there in the early 90’s with only 12,000 there, same with Chelsea, support all over the country was very low during the 80s and early 90s

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Leicester City have sought permission to extend their ground by 8,000 seats. I think Wolfs are looking to increase their capacity to 50,000. Bournemouth want to build a new stand at one end. West Ham and Tottenham have a lot more seats than ten years ago. Liverpool have developed Anfield,  adding capacity. 

The idea that TV money in the Prem pays for everything is fanciful. If Ashton Gate stays at 26,000 for football  (which it probably will) that might one day be seen as standing still.

If we somehow made it to the Prem, games v Liverpool and one or two others could attract 40,000, I would say.

 

Bournemouth’s whole ground currently holds about as many people as the Lansdown stand, the other clubs you mention here have funded their increases because they are either massive (Spurs) or because they have been gifted a stadium, like West Ham.

Who is paying for this proposed redevelopment, by the way? Personally I can’t see any point us looking for a ground bigger than the 27,500 current capacity.

36 minutes ago, The Bard said:

One of the houses on Ashton Road was on the market recently for upwards of £600k.  I think there are 18 such houses behind the Atyeo. There's no chance Steve Lansdown would fork out that plus the obvious cost of building  to expand capacity to at most 35000.

There's scope to add maybe 1500 to 2000 to capacity by knocking down the Atyeo, and wrapping around, but that would cost probably £15 million+.

Totally, it is complete fantasy stuff, even before we get to the small matter of someone being unwilling to sell.

These aren’t £50k dilapidated terraced houses in Liverpool, an owner of one could stay in situ for longer than SL has left on the planet, let alone his time as our owner.

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

The Wickes parking thread got me thinking about this - it seems to have been an age since anything was released around it - anyone got any ideas or know anyone involved? Might be quite some while til we get to watch the Flyers in action in BS3 @Davefevs @SuperDziek

I was hoping there might be an announcement in May, but I can only assume “consultation” is taking longer than expected.

[Bris Red]

4 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

You make some valid points but we don't average 20k most weeks, only when there is a sizeable away following. If you deduct away fans from the total gate we average 18/19k and that includes some 14k ST holders whether they turn up or not. 

What other club in the country that hasn’t played topflight football since the early 80s can match out attendance’s?
 

Every single club (bar Coventry who had a freakish season and have a buzz because they are back home) above us in that table has been in the topflight in the last 10-15 years. After the horrendous football served up the past couple of seasons plus as i keep saying the lack of generational success to have pulled in an average of 19 almost 20 k is fantastic.

The away team boosting the average attendance is irrelevant aswell, you can say that for any team in the division. Sheff united’s average for example wouldn’t be 27 k if it wasn’t for some sold out away ends at there place the same goes for Forest etc etc. 

Every team counts season ticket holders aswell present or not so again not overly sure what you are getting at with that, we aren’t the only ones that do it..

Edited July 13, 2022 by bris red

[pongo88]

5 hours ago, Wiltshire robin said:

I don’t believe that , we’d sell out every game in the prem other than maybe Bournemouth.

I was quoting what SL said at a Senior Reds lunch a few years ago. As he’s the one with the money, if he thinks City would have difficulty selling out every game, he’s not going to spend money on redeveloping the Atyeo. 

3 hours ago, The Bard said:

One of the houses on Ashton Road was on the market recently for upwards of £600k.  I think there are 18 such houses behind the Atyeo. There's no chance Steve Lansdown would fork out that plus the obvious cost of building  to expand capacity to at most 35000.

There's scope to add maybe 1500 to 2000 to capacity by knocking down the Atyeo, and wrapping around, but that would cost probably £15 million+.

Exactly. It’s 18 x £600k for the houses until a few decide to hold SL to ransom by asking much more for the last remaining houses. (If there is as a new Atyeo, IMO, it would only make sense to do a “proper job” and build a 12k ish capacity stand with possibly some more boxes and / or hospitality that would push the cost beyond £15m)

[redapple]

4 hours ago, harrys said:

They do have fantastic support but I remember City playing there in the early 90’s with only 12,000 there, same with Chelsea, support all over the country was very low during the 80s and early 90s

I remember the game and your correct . Drew 0-0 but Donowa missed a late sitter. 
I think that was a pretty average attendance for Newcastle that season . 

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, redapple said:

I remember the game and your correct . Drew 0-0 but Donowa missed a late sitter. 
I think that was a pretty average attendance for Newcastle that season . 

That was the Saturday after Donowa had scored the late winner at home to the few on the Tuesday night before.

Only time I have been there, as you say only about 12,000 or 13,000 there & they were booed off at the end of the 0-0 draw.

[pillred]

Would it not be possible to build a mirror image of the Lansdown where the Dolman stand is now that would boost capacity to around 33,000 plus a bit of development on the Atyeo sides we could be looking at 35,000 if we ever needed to if we ever went up and looked like sustaining it by using the TV money.

Edited July 13, 2022 by pillred
Spelling

[bcfc01]

1 hour ago, redapple said:

I remember the game and your correct . Drew 0-0 but Donowa missed a late sitter. 
I think that was a pretty average attendance for Newcastle that season . 

Nope.

Urban myth.

You'd have to go back to 1898 to see Newcastle get an average that low. 

They've had plenty of low attendances but their average has always been high.

Again;

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/newu.htm

[pillred]

8 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Nope.

Urban myth.

You'd have to go back to 1898 to see Newcastle get an average that low. 

They've had plenty of low attendances but their average has always been high.

Again;

http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attnclub/league/newu.htm

But during the 80s and 90s their average was around the low to mid twenties with lows of around 16,500 in a ouple of seasons so that is a hell of a lot lower than say the last 10 or so years. I would say that is quite a wild fluctuation and that when they are sh*t so are their attendances though mid twenties is still pretty ok.

[bcfc01]

5 minutes ago, pillred said:

But during the 80s and 90s their average was around the low to mid twenties with lows of around 16,500 in a ouple of seasons so that is a hell of a lot lower than say the last 10 or so years. I would say that is quite a wild fluctuation and that when they are sh*t so are their attendances though mid twenties is still pretty ok.

Not sure when the ground refurbishments took place, but I'm guessing that had a lot do do with the lower average attendances at that time. Similar to us in that respect.

Their attendances "when they are shit" are still bloody good.

Just to put it in perspective, when we went down the leagues in the 80s our attendances went as low as 3k averaging under 5k in one season.

.

[Merrick's Marvels]

6 hours ago, The Bard said:

One of the houses on Ashton Road was on the market recently for upwards of £600k.  I think there are 18 such houses behind the Atyeo. There's no chance Steve Lansdown would fork out that plus the obvious cost of building  to expand capacity to at most 35000.

There's scope to add maybe 1500 to 2000 to capacity by knocking down the Atyeo, and wrapping around, but that would cost probably £15 million+.

I don't get why buying up those houses is necessary anymore.

In this day and age, it must surely be possible for someone to design a stand that's a bit taller but still doesn't impinge on the houses behind. Might need to be a bit funky but funky's fine - it would be good to have one stand that's architecturally interesting and unique, that makes our ground identifiably Ashton Gate, identifiably BCFC rather than some soulless new build bowl that could be anyone's ground from the outside. But I digress. 

There's plenty of room between the houses and the back of the Atyeo and, anyway, hasn't the old "right to light" argument been abolished?

Personally I think the houses in Ashton Road are a red herring. The stand won't be redeveloped because we don't need the extra seats right now. End of. The only way that will change is if we establish ourselves in the Prem for a good few years and it's a 27,000 sell out every week.

Pigs might fly too, mind. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Merrick's Marvels

[pillred]

2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Not sure when the ground refurbishments took place, but I'm guessing that had a lot do do with the lower average attendances at that time. Similar to us in that respect.

Their attendances "when they are shit" are still bloody good.

Just to put it in perspective, when we went down the leagues in the 80s our attendances went as low as 3k averaging under 5k in one season.

.

I did say mid twenties was still pretty good, and yes our fickle lot did desert us in the 80s, and yes you are right Ashton gate was a pretty depressing place with 3 or 4 thousand in it and that was in the days it held 40,000, I like to think we made almost as much noise as some of the crowds we have had lately though to be fair we have not had an awful lot to get exited about for a while.

[RedRock]

10 minutes ago, pillred said:

I did say mid twenties was still pretty good, and yes our fickle lot did desert us in the 80s, and yes you are right Ashton gate was a pretty depressing place with 3 or 4 thousand in it and that was in the days it held 40,000, I like to think we made almost as much noise as some of the crowds we have had lately though to be fair we have not had an awful lot to get exited about for a while.

Yes, it was strange. Even with sub-5,000 attendances the place didn’t feel that deserted and the atmosphere was generally ok (thanks mainly to Mr Harling). 

Those were the times (with others) when our ‘deflated’ attendance figures were a standing joke. Cue general mutterings from those in attendance about the tax man.

[pillred]

35 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Yes, it was strange. Even with sub-5,000 attendances the place didn’t feel that deserted and the atmosphere was generally ok (thanks mainly to Mr Harling). 

Those were the times (with others) when our ‘deflated’ attendance figures were a standing joke. Cue general mutterings from those in attendance about the tax man.

The attendance against Chelsea in the FA up being a prime example, the crowd actually laughed when the official attendance was given out it was quickly revised up but even then was still miles under the true figure.