Did we lose yesterday?

[Red Skin]

Well said @City 62

Those playing week in week out have got no meaningful rest since summer 2019.  They had to stay fit through the first lock down and played into the summer with only a short break.  Added to that the additional isolation they must undergo is surely having a mental effect on them.   That's why the same players that played more convincingly against Stoke aren't playing with the same energy now.l, and will see more injuries like O'Dowda's if they don't get some reinforcements in January.

Tiredness can affect mental sharpness too.  Performances have been littered to poor decisions and poor touches (like Wells' yesterday when through in goal) you wouldn't expect from the same players.

I think this explains (not excuses) performances lately.  To be where we are is quite remarkable.  It's the togetherness of the squad that is getting us through games and as you will hear from those that comment on games and have some inside knowledge (Tinnion, Gary O'Neil, Gilmarton) Dean Holden can take lot of credit for that.

People are tested most in difficult times.  Experiencing difficult moments and challenges could be the making of players like Semenyo, Bakinson and Vyner and indeed Dean who still new to management (though has plenty to draw on in his personal life).

[WolfOfWestStreet]

We play a brand of football very few people would want to pay to watch. 

Please tell me what we do better than Johnson's Bristol City because I see very little difference. 

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Sorry Dave, but I think that’s a bit naive.  One of the important impacts of the injury situation (I think the worst I have experienced in 50+ years of supporting City) is that we have no flexibility.  We have a bench that isn’t strong enough for the championship; if we have a sending-off we are significantly weakened; if someone has a dip in form we often have no viable alternatives.  Football is a squad game these days, never more than during the pandemic with the fearful schedule of games, and having eleven fit starters is almost neither here nor there.  We need 22 players in order to compete on a level playing field with most teams, and at present we have 14 at best.

I get all of that.  I’m one of the biggest advocates on here of not focussing on best eleven as it’s a squad game.  The bench isn’t strong, but only 5 can get on, so we still had Mariappa, Moore, Massengo, Diedhiou.  We aren’t having to throw all the kids on...yet.  I know Opi came on yesterday, but that was ahead of Moore and Massengo.

But I still expect us to be able to string some passes together.  It’s the football, the incoherence of it (second half in the main) that gets me.  The players that took the pitch yesterday are capable of more....especially on the back of 8 days prep.  I know that included rest days and Xmas, but a chance to get over some little niggles too.  To me, that’s not about fitness and fatigue but doing the basics....which they are all capable of....and should be doing.  I think there is a lack of application, a bit of lack of ownership, a bit of hiding when the going gets tough, e.g. not creating passing options, not closing down, etc.

I see those basics not being done, that frustrates me.  It made Wycombe look better than they were.

Wycombe are one of the teams I’d suggest have suffered injury wise in near terms to us.  They played far better football than us second half.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Well said @City 62

Those playing week in week out have got no meaningful rest since summer 2019.  They had to stay fit through the first lock down and played into the summer with only a short break.  Added to that the additional isolation they must undergo is surely having a mental effect on them.   That's why the same players that played more convincingly against Stoke aren't playing with the same energy now.l, and will see more injuries like O'Dowda's if they don't get some reinforcements in January.

Tiredness can affect mental sharpness too.  Performances have been littered to poor decisions and poor touches (like Wells' yesterday when through in goal) you wouldn't expect from the same players.

I think this explains (not excuses) performances lately.  To be where we are is quite remarkable.  It's the togetherness of the squad that is getting us through games and as you will hear from those that comment on games and have some inside knowledge (Tinnion, Gary O'Neil, Gilmarton) Dean Holden can take lot of credit for that.

People are tested most in difficult times.  Experiencing difficult moments and challenges could be the making of players like Semenyo, Bakinson and Vyner and indeed Dean who still new to management (though have plenty to draw on in his personal life). 

 

Good post.

[Blackbird1]

What really made me angry, was the lack if our strikers not squaring the ball to Martin who had at least two tap ins. It's a team game, if your teammate has a square on chance in front of goal you pass it..Not take a shot from the angle.That should be hammered home by the coaches, inexcusable. 

[Alessandro]

If you're only watching the highlights or the games on sky, you could be forgiven for looking at the table and saying, 'what's the problem?'

Fair enough. As always it's all about context though. The context being the words and actions of the club over the summer. No god given right to win or get promoted expected by me, but I can understand why some get frustrated and want the club to be accountable for their words and actions.

Back to the football - I was saying pretty much every game earlier on this season I was concerned the results and league position masked the performances. For me, the football this season has regressed. I think DaveFevs sums up very well in this thread what i've felt for a while. The application and the standard at times has been nowhere near good enough, hence being humbled by teams we should have the quality to overcome. People talk about squad unity, but I think that's been stressed over the last few weeks and the signs of that frustration have perhaps been on display IMO.

I think we've seen now the early league position was a bit of a false one, but we've done well to stay "in the hunt" with the injuries. With all that being said, I want Holden to see out this season, we won't go down. Can we see consistent improvements as he gets his enforcements back and at least finish the season positively. That's probably a fair expectation now. 

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, bcfc01 said:

Prior to yesterday, Wycombe had played 10 with five being draws and the rest defeats by a one goal margin.

That suggests to me that they are not a pushover and to expect us to routinely beat them is naive.

However, if Martin, Wells, and Semenyo had scored it may well have turned out that some of the people on here wouldn't be posting. Its fine margins and we did just enough to get the points. Not a great performance, especially second half, but three points in the bag.

Someone mentioned that we had 7 starters that had played in the Stoke game earlier in the season which, for me, is a meaningless observation. It could also be said that we had 4 missing from that game or 36.4% which may affect the formation and tactics. As I said, a meaningless observation.

Also, we don't know who is playing whilst not 100% fit after knocks or the effects of Covid. Its not all black and white and I didn't see many complaining about our early season form (other than the usual ones). Form is temporary and there is every reason to think that it will return at some point when we have a squad free from injury, niggles, and the effects of Covid.

The main criticism I have is the squad having a soft underbelly (aside from a few individuals tbf) which showed up in the Rotherham game where they just bullied City for most of the game. That isn't acceptable and needs sorting out pronto.

This is a very important point that often gets overlooked A hell of a lot goes on that fans won't know about.

E.g. yesterday when the teams were announced, there was a lot of grumbling that Martin was starting and Diedhiou wasn't and it was put down to favouritism and the manager having a blind spot. We later learn that Fam was carrying a knock which meant that he was restricted to 20-30 minutes maximum.

[Northern Red]

On a more general point, performances haven't been anywhere near good enough over the last few weeks, even allowing for the mitigating circumstances.

However I can guarantee that if exactly the same performances and results were being achieved with Hughton, McCarthy or Warnock in the dugout then there would be nowhere near as much negativity or holding the manager responsible as there is currently. Though that's perhaps to be expected given the fact that Holden is unproven and wasn't a popular appointment.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

2 really "stupid questions" the last of which suggests fans are not supposed to post views on what was ANOTHER dire performance.

You can be sure that when/if some injured players come back, they may not actually be the saviours as some hope. The likes of Weimann/Pato etc were often lambasted on here for just running around/not showing interest etc.

I would suggest its our very in-exp manager that is the main problem and the person who brought him here, while ignoring much more exp managers.

Your hope of strengthening in Jan is unlikely, in fact the opposite may happen if any sort of offer comes in for Fam.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, BCFCGav said:

Performances are the issue and are what’s causing frustration. We do go a LONG time without carving out a chance lately. 

That said we are expectant buggers on here. We have between 9 and 12 injuries as things stand, and need to temper our expectations as such. I’m over the moon with yesterday, as I just want us safe this season given circumstances. They aren’t Holden’s fault. It’s the physios that I think need looking at...

Not yesterday, Martin certainly should have hit the target when put clean through by O’Dowda, Semenyo contrived to hit the bloke on the line when a finish anywhere else would have resulted in a goal, Wells also should have scored at the start of the second half when put in by Semenyo, who then shot wastefully well wide when he was clean through.

We had more presentable/easy chances than in any game recently.

Wycombe had just 1 shot on target, which took an incredibly unlucky deflection to go in, at no other time did I ever think they were remotely likely to score, yet I read reports saying there were worth a point, absolute ******* nonsense.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I get all of that.  I’m one of the biggest advocates on here of not focussing on best eleven as it’s a squad game.  The bench isn’t strong, but only 5 can get on, so we still had Mariappa, Moore, Massengo, Diedhiou.  We aren’t having to throw all the kids on...yet.  I know Opi came on yesterday, but that was ahead of Moore and Massengo.

But I still expect us to be able to string some passes together.  It’s the football, the incoherence of it (second half in the main) that gets me.  The players that took the pitch yesterday are capable of more....especially on the back of 8 days prep.  I know that included rest days and Xmas, but a chance to get over some little niggles too.  To me, that’s not about fitness and fatigue but doing the basics....which they are all capable of....and should be doing.  I think there is a lack of application, a bit of lack of ownership, a bit of hiding when the going gets tough, e.g. not creating passing options, not closing down, etc.

I see those basics not being done, that frustrates me.  It made Wycombe look better than they were.

Wycombe are one of the teams I’d suggest have suffered injury wise in near terms to us.  They played far better football than us second half.

We were doing that so well earlier in the season. Little triangles, keep possession, eyes forward. For some reason we stopped and now there are no options so we lose possession trying to keep hold of the ball or pump it long and lose it that way.

When watching a game  I always look at the options available to  the receiving player and guess where he should be playing it. ( different level I know but watching Man City it is usually possible to see a couple of moves ahead.....with us recently I feel sorry for the receiving player because there are no options) Bakinson and Nagy were the best two at dropping off  to receive the ball and keep it moving but even they seem to be 'hiding' lately.

[Sir Geoff]

36 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Not yesterday, Martin certainly should have hit the target when put clean through by O’Dowda, Semenyo contrived to hit the bloke on the line when a finish anywhere else would have resulted in a goal, Wells also should have scored at the start of the second half when put in by Semenyo, who then shot wastefully well wide when he was clean through.

We had more presentable/easy chances than in any game recently.

Wycombe had just 1 shot on target, which took an incredibly unlucky deflection to go in, at no other time did I ever think they were remotely likely to score, yet I read reports saying there were worth a point, absolute ******* nonsense.

Or passed it across the six yard line to O Dowda who would have had a tap in.

[steveybadger]

4 hours ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

The number of likes you have for this post tells you what the silent majority think of our results this season.

[Murraysrightplum]

We lost 2 more to injury

[REDOXO]

5 hours ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

Way to rational. We are hanging in there. Something is going to turn in Holden’s favor soon. The bloke can’t keep having this kind of luck!

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

I think we've seen now the early league position was a bit of a false one, but we've done well to stay "in the hunt" with the injuries. With all that being said, I want Holden to see out this season, we won't go down. Can we see consistent improvements as he gets his enforcements back and at least finish the season positively. That's probably a fair expectation now. 

I've been giving Holden a fair bit of leeway because of the injuries, but that's not the whole story. As Dave Favs said, the team is close to that early on in the season but the football is poor. That is a lot of the cause of the moans, seeing us struggle against poor sides, yes I know not God given right etc, etc. But we are being out passed and dominated by sides that don't concentrate on ball possession. First touch and missing simple passes are down to the players, but the movement from early season has dropped off and with it our possession and control. We have gone backwards . Now another reason I'd feel sympathy is the timing of the injuries. I think Kalas was the straw that broke the camels back. We stopped playing in the first half of games hoping to nick it in the 2nd. Yesterday was the first time for a while we looked as though we were actually trying to go at the other team from the kick off. The 2nd half it looked like the old worries kick in, but at least we showed some intent. 
The problem for many , look at the team from yesterday ;
Defence: Experienced FB's, Very promising CB alongside an International
Midfield: 2 Internationals, 2 very promising younger players (one arguably one of the finds f the year so far)
Strikers: Experienced Championship players and scorers.
There is no reason for us not to be a lot better than we were in the 2nd half. Come to that 1st half Vs PNE and games against Rotherham & Millwall.
While I still believe we will be better with players back, we should be better with the players we have. 

Yesterday I was genuinely excited with what I saw Brom Bakinson. Still raw, needs to cut out the mistakes and lapses in concentration, but some of those passes, the weight spot on and the vision unbelievable . Semenyo has lots to offer, running with the ball , but needs to make better choices. Vyner looks a class act.  There were good performances from Kalas, Nagy & COD. So it makes it hard to understand halves of football like yesterday, and previously. THAT is a main reason for the criticism  for Holden. 

Things could get worse before they get better. 
No players due back before Jan, probably mid Jan. Yesterday saw COD limp off, Hunt gashed shin , Vyner go off injured and Fam was only risked for 20 minutes so no guarantee he'll be 100% for Tuesday. 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I've been giving Holden a fair bit of leeway because of the injuries, but that's not the whole story. As Dave Favs said, the team is close to that early on in the season but the football is poor. That is a lot of the cause of the moans, seeing us struggle against poor sides, yes I know not God given right etc, etc. But we are being out passed and dominated by sides that don't concentrate on ball possession. First touch and missing simple passes are down to the players, but the movement from early season has dropped off and with it our possession and control. We have gone backwards . Now another reason I'd feel sympathy is the timing of the injuries. I think Kalas was the straw that broke the camels back. We stopped playing in the first half of games hoping to nick it in the 2nd. Yesterday was the first time for a while we looked as though we were actually trying to go at the other team from the kick off. The 2nd half it looked like the old worries kick in, but at least we showed some intent. 
The problem for many , look at the team from yesterday ;
Defence: Experienced FB's, Very promising CB alongside an International
Midfield: 2 Internationals, 2 very promising younger players (one arguably one of the finds f the year so far)
Strikers: Experienced Championship players and scorers.
There is no reason for us not to be a lot better than we were in the 2nd half. Come to that 1st half Vs PNE and games against Rotherham & Millwall.
While I still believe we will be better with players back, we should be better with the players we have. 

Yesterday I was genuinely excited with what I saw Brom Bakinson. Still raw, needs to cut out the mistakes and lapses in concentration, but some of those passes, the weight spot on and the vision unbelievable . Semenyo has lots to offer, running with the ball , but needs to make better choices. Vyner looks a class act.  There were good performances from Kalas, Nagy & COD. So it makes it hard to understand halves of football like yesterday, and previously. THAT is a main reason for the criticism  for Holden. 

Things could get worse before they get better. 
No players due back before Jan, probably mid Jan. Yesterday saw COD limp off, Hunt gashed shin , Vyner go off injured and Fam was only risked for 20 minutes so no guarantee he'll be 100% for Tuesday. 

Good summary Mike.  Think @Sir Geoffgave a good one too.

In effect we are trying to win a game in 45 minutes, giving ourselves half the chance to do so.  Yesterday, first half was alright (in a positive way), still some issues, but we created some good chances.  Second half it was not good enough for 30-35 minutes.  That’s the frustrating bit.

I’m totally happy with Holden, he’s still learning too, but the players are too easily out-controlled by an opposition....I don’t expect Wycombe to roll over, but I expect us to be able take the pressure off too, like Preston did to us second half.  Although we played better, PNE took the sting out of us every time we tried to build pressure.  We couldn’t stop Wycombe building a head of steam and ultimately they needed one lucky break to equalise.  Most of us feared them scoring evening if they didn’t create anything to test Bents.( @GrahamC)

We did battle back though, so fair play, and it was a thunder-bastard of a strike from Fam.

[Colemanballs]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think any / many of us think we have a right to win any game.

I’m still fully behind Dean, but I think he’s made mistakes of late, and I think also that the team that cross the line aren’t playing well either.

Delighted with 3 points, but of character to be second best second half and snatch the win, that looked very likely at h-t.

I think we played much better football earlier this season, we aren’t doing many of the basic things we were doing then.  I expect more from the players on show yesterday, especially after an 8 day prep.

For me, not only has he made mistakes (some of which are excusable but others not) but he has persisted with them in a way that has made me lose all confidence in him as a head coach. Playing Moore as a LCB was blatantly dumb after 20 minutes of his first outing but he persisted with it for a further four (?) games until it culminated in the fiasco that was Norwich. Moore looked a very decent championship player before that and now looks shell-shocked. And then Holden started against Millwall with Moore on the left. WTF!!!

He has been chronically overplaying players. Martin is the obvious example but I question whether Patterson's injury was avoidable. Wells out wide until he seems to have lost all ability in front  of goal.  Bonkers!!

I'm totally happy with our position in the league right now, particularly given the injuries, but have no belief anymore in Holden. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

7 hours ago, City 62 said:

Did we lose? I watched a game where I thought we won against a team that have recently picked up points against the likes of Watford and Brentford.

 We have probably the worst injury list in the Championship, and still got the points. Why all the negativity? Surely it's about hanging on in there until January, and then hopefully we will strengthen. Also by then some of our injured players should also be available. 

We have not got the given right to go around beating team's easily in this league. No team has.

 

Well said 

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Colemanballs said:

For me, not only has he made mistakes (some of which are excusable but others not) but he has persisted with them in a way that has made me lose all confidence in him as a head coach. Playing Moore as a LCB was blatantly dumb after 20 minutes of his first outing but he persisted with it for a further four (?) games until it culminated in the fiasco that was Norwich. Moore looked a very decent championship player before that and now looks shell-shocked. And then Holden started against Millwall with Moore on the left. WTF!!!

He has been chronically overplaying players. Martin is the obvious example but I question whether Patterson's injury was avoidable. Wells out wide until he seems to have lost all ability in front  of goal.  Bonkers!!

I'm totally happy with our position in the league right now, particularly given the injuries, but have no belief anymore in Holden. 

I’m with you to an extent on the two points you make, but I’m still with Dean.

[Colemanballs]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m with you to an extent on the two points you make, but I’m still with Dean.

To me, it seems like he has a reasonable understanding of systems but no idea of how to get the best out of his players or effectively fit them into the system that he wants to play. 

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m with you to an extent on the two points you make, but I’m still with Dean.

And I actually think that if you thought he wasn’t up to it or the signs were too worrying you would have to make the change (Which won’t happen) now or certainly in the next few months 

Because - The squad needs surgery and some resetting and it would be a mistake to let DH do that over the next two or three windows if the hierarchy don’t believe in him for anything other than a stop gap (Don’t believe that to be so for one moment)

LJ was afforded 4 1/2 years , numerous windows and many rebuilds so it would unlikely , and unfair , that DH wasn’t allowed to shape Or tweak the squad before he’s fully judged.

The performances concern me , but having appointed him , and the results at least to date , not to back him for the forseeable period would be nuts

[Davefevs]

He won’t get the same leeway as LJ did.

But he also needs this season too.  The indicators will be there before the end of the season if it’s “carry on Dean” or it needs someone else.  He’s been hamstrung by injuries undoubtedly but surely we will see some of them back to judge properly.

[Numero Uno]

6 minutes ago, Colemanballs said:

To me, it seems like he has a reasonable understanding of systems but no idea of how to get the best out of his players or effectively fit them into the system that he wants to play. 

You look at our squad and we have a couple of has-beens, a few who do a job at our level, a few approaching their peak who hold us together, half a team of injured players and a load of younger players still learning the game and making mistakes on the job (and most will come out the other end better players). It isn’t about not getting them playing, generally we just aren’t good enough to do anything other than stay in games and grind out results at the moment. We cannot play on the front foot with the players available.

The squad needs strengthening and we do have two players coming back from injury who will massively help that. We also need at least three more new bodies in January I think then we can start to look at how we play going forward.

Holden must be given the opportunity to bring in a few players before people start judging him. Otherwise we sack him and leave it to the people in charge to come up with their next belter of an appointment and we rinse and repeat.

[Sleepy1968]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

We did battle back though, so fair play, and it was a thunder-bastard of a strike from Fam.

Was I the only person watching whose first thought was that Fam smashed it into the south stand? He seemed to score 'between frames' on my Robins TV stream.

[Northern Red]

Just now, Sleepy1968 said:

Was I the only person watching whose first thought was that Fam smashed it into the south stand? He seemed to score 'between frames' on my Robins TV stream.

On another day it does go into the stand and everyone's criticising him.

[Davefevs]

28 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Was I the only person watching whose first thought was that Fam smashed it into the south stand? He seemed to score 'between frames' on my Robins TV stream.

Haha, likewise.  I think using my 4k tv web browser makes it more pixelated, and I’m thinking of using my iPad Pro on Tuesday to see whether I think it’s better.  My tv is at the bottom of the Samsung range, so picture is ok, but not upscaling it well.

His goal yesterday and v Derby were definitely South Stand options....but fair play to him, two good finishes.

[Street red]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think my other thread was also saying that we’d had 8 days to prepare too (a rarity this season), yet I didn’t see much difference.  Footballers rarely play feeling 100%, they are always carrying niggles.

Every point is worth something in the Champ, those points here and there instead of a defeat are most welcome indeed.  Sometimes, e.g. Brum, you play ok first half, but then struggle second half.  At 0-0 after an hour / 65 minutes, I think sometimes you have to accept that it’s not your day and although you want the winner you don’t over-push for it....don’t lose one point, take what you’ve got.

Forget the xG scores, I know it’s not for everyone, but I use these timelines to see the regularity of chances.

From the Wells chance in the first minute of the second half we then went over 35 minutes before creating another.  During that period Wycombe controlled parts and you can see they had several chances, albeit little of note.

Its those long spells that get me.  We don’t control games.

I’m not asking for expansive football, honestly I’m not.  But second half was just win it back, give it away, go deeper and deeper.  I expect better than what I saw yesterday.  I don’t think I’m asking too much.  More of the first half type stuff would’ve been fine.

When was the last time we controlled a game for 70 minutes at least and I mean controlled with passing and attacking intention,Most of our play is in 45 minutes slots either first half or second that has been happening for the past few seasons ..Im finding it hard to see the general squad is fit enough and I really do believe we've been lacking in this area for a fair while.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Street red said:

When was the last time we controlled a game for 70 minutes at least and I mean controlled with passing and attacking intention,Most of our play is in 45 minutes slots either first half or second that has been happening for the past few seasons ..Im finding it hard to see the general squad is fit enough and I really do believe we've been lacking in this area for a fair while.

If you mean control rather than dominate, I’d say “not enough”.  Expectation of dominating are too high.  But I do expect us to be able to control periods of games.

Yesterday we played ok 1st half without really being in control.  Second half, not at all.  I don’t call a 3 minute spell around 55 mins as control.

I accept that some games are end to end, where no side controls the game.

But I’m really going back go early season to give you games where I thought we controlled games, built pressure etc.

Of the latter games, I thought we had good control for the 1st half of Brum (h), but then had none in the second half.  Then I have to go all the way back to Swansea....

[Street red]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

If you mean control rather than dominate, I’d say “not enough”.  Expectation of dominating are too high.  But I do expect us to be able to control periods of games.

Yesterday we played ok 1st half without really being in control.  Second half, not at all.  I don’t call a 3 minute spell around 55 mins as control.

I accept that some games are end to end, where no side controls the game.

But I’m really going back go early season to give you games where I thought we controlled games, built pressure etc.

Of the latter games, I thought we had good control for the 1st half of Brum (h), but then had none in the second half.  Then I have to go all the way back to Swansea....

I do mean control rather dominant which yes the expectation is high. Do you think this comes down to players fitness and them producing consistent team performances(Individual performances),And being able to control a game for 70 minutes at least added with that the inexperience of Holden .. I will be interested to see how we come up against Brentford and how much control we gain in that game because thats one thing Brentford are very good at.