Steve Watts Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 12 hours ago, markcarter said: Agree with all of this. Except I would add Jay DaSilva as an asset. Once fit and with a long run, he’ll prove to be an outstanding player and will play in the Premier League in due course. I genuinely believe that in the short term at least....possibly for the duration of his remaining time with us, his injury record will scupper his hopes of returning to the Prem. And anyone who does take a punt won't be paying big bucks for someone who has been unavailable for much of two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, TomThumb84 said: Yes is the broad answer. We are a long way off from being a promotion side. The question being: When did our ambitions change for the season, and how was this allowed to happen? I always was under the impression that Lee Johnson was sacked in order for the club to push on to a top 6 finish, and after a lengthy 6 week protracted search for a new manager, Dean Holden was the stand-out candidate to achieve that. At what point will we stand up and say “Actually, what with Covid, injuries, recruitment not being great, Dean Holden has done ok, being the only man who would take the job on our terms, and ultimately we are happy to stay in the division.”? I’d have more sympathy with the club if they were just honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: They've "only" reached two Wembley finals (and not of the Johnstone Paint Pot To Piss In variety) in the last 12 years too, don't forget. The year before Steve took control, Cardiff were in the 4th division. Three years before this they were averaging 3000 odd a season. Vincent Tan has "only" been at Cardiff ten years, half the time Steve has been running the show here. It's quite something - a bit rich - for a Bristol City fan to be saying Cardiff have "only" been promoted twice from this division in the last 7 years or so. Steve's "only" managed two promotions in 20 years - both from League One. I am not disputing any of what you say. The reason I stated that they have "only" been in the premiership twice was in response to the claim that "they always seem to find a way back to the prem", That claim surely implies that they have been there numerous times, or doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomThumb84 Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 34 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Yes, smart response, but the relentlessness of those who present their opinions as to where we’re going wrong as incontestable fact is very wearing. Every thread is hi-jacked by posters who repeat the same memes time after time. How many times can you accuse Mark Ashton of being a liar; Dean Holden of being inept; or Steve Lansdown of only being in it for the money? Need a left back? Ah here’s one on the shelf over here, I’ll have that one! I really do value debate and contrary opinions, but there is no genuine debate on the forum any more. Anyone who dares contradict the end of the world brigade are dismissed out of hand, That’s not argument, it’s just contradiction. My response was clearly facetious, and I appreciate your measured reply. Fact, is, on both sides of the coin, no-one is really wrong. There are some undeniably skewed communications and decisions made and taken by the club that at times lends itself to scrutiny. The key one being how Holden was appointed and his performance in the role then being magnified (perhaps unfairly). The other side of the coin is that we are 3 points off the play-offs in the Championship and the club are doing their best. I think a combination of Ashtons history (Watford), the poor recruitment decisions (in not out), and the circumstances and process in sacking LJ and appointing Holden, plus the football on show, has led to a lot of negativity. This may be an over-reaction but if it transpires to an effect on the gate and ST holders then its one to be taken seriously and discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 30 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: They've "only" reached two Wembley finals (and not of the Johnstone Paint Pot To Piss In variety) in the last 12 years too, don't forget. The year before Steve took control, Cardiff were in the 4th division. Three years before this they were averaging 3000 odd a season. Vincent Tan has "only" been at Cardiff ten years, half the time Steve has been running the show here. It's quite something - a bit rich - for a Bristol City fan to be saying Cardiff have "only" been promoted twice from this division in the last 7 years or so. Steve's "only" managed two promotions in 20 years - both from League One. Well said. And an even better example of how to run a club at this level is Norwich City. They have, for as long as I remember, had a decent and productive youth policy. Since 1971, they have been promoted six times to the top league and are a good bet for number seven this season. And have have cup and European achievements. Now owned and funded by local citizens just like City. The chef appears to be well ahead of the financial whiz kid! It is a city with about half the Bristol population. Yet so well managed that they leave us standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 8 minutes ago, Redtucks said: I am not disputing any of what you say. The reason I stated that they have "only" been in the premiership twice was in response to the claim that "they always seem to find a way back to the prem", That claim surely implies that they have been there numerous times, or doesn't it? Four times since the war to our one. Two cup finals and European competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 48 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Worth adding that Tinnion was quoted before the season as saying he thought that Pring was ready for the first team squad. Yet despite knowing JD's injury record we sent him on loan and settled for Rowe as makeshift cover. Planning, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redtucks Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 7 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: Four times since the war to our one. Two cup finals and European competition. Only twice in the prem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 15 hours ago, Robbored said: Ashton has a remit set by SL and one element of that remit is to ensure sustainability. Consequently MA has to be extremely astute on fiscal matters. The sales of our better players is one part of the equation. The second part is keeping the spending on player wages and incoming signings under control. Ultimately SL runs a tight ship with Ashton as his captain and so far SL is content with the job that his captain is doing. So has he delivered value on incoming transfers and is our wage bill under control? Looks to me that he has failed on your second measure yet there is no indication that he is being held accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 22 minutes ago, chinapig said: So has he delivered value on incoming transfers and is our wage bill under control? Looks to me that he has failed on your second measure yet there is no indication that he is being held accountable. We don’t know that tho. I get the impression that SL is quite content to allow his captain run the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Robbored said: We don’t know that tho. I get the impression that SL is quite content to allow his captain run the show. You suggested 2 measures by which SL judges Ashton's performance not me. We have objective evidence in the form of the accounts that he has not met the second, by some distance in the case of the wage bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Robbored said: We don’t know that tho. I get the impression that SL is quite content to allow his captain run the show. So pure speculation then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Give Holden a decent CM and not have 10 injuries then i will judge him and be able to say how far off we are. We are only 3 points off top 6 which isn’t bad given what I expected. The football however has mostly been dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, chinapig said: You suggested 2 measures by which SL judges Ashton's performance not me. We have objective evidence in the form of the accounts that he has not met the second, by some distance in the case of the wage bill. I do know that SL hates the wages the players are on but has no choice but to pay them. Iirc LJ once said that City are the third lowest wage payers in the Championship............ That’s probably still the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soultrader Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 18 hours ago, Sir Geoff said: As the dust settles is there anyone that thinks DH has done better than LJ would have so far this season. Top 10, -2 gd and plying crap football. Wish someone from within the club could answer what the point was of sacking LJ to replace him with this crock of ..... To play devils advocate. LJ was at the club 4 years and signed a shed load of his players. So in theory, prior to his sacking, that is his team, playing his plan. Now you have a novice head coach, who essentially has achieved the same results. Surely if LJ was brilliant, you would have expected DH not to have done as well? As you are comparing LJs 4th year with DHs 1st year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, soultrader said: To play devils advocate. LJ was at the club 4 years and signed a shed load of his players. So in theory, prior to his sacking, that is his team, playing his plan. Now you have a novice head coach, who essentially has achieved the same results. Surely if LJ was brilliant, you would have expected DH not to have done as well? As you are comparing LJs 4th year with DHs 1st year. Quite, it's called selective memory. The football is every bit as bland, the squad is pretty much the same and the results are more or less exactly the same yet Bullshit Lee is alright and Dean is a crock of shite apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooRya Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 31 minutes ago, soultrader said: To play devils advocate. LJ was at the club 4 years and signed a shed load of his players. So in theory, prior to his sacking, that is his team, playing his plan. Now you have a novice head coach, who essentially has achieved the same results. Surely if LJ was brilliant, you would have expected DH not to have done as well? As you are comparing LJs 4th year with DHs 1st year. Not as simple as that though. LJ took us from a relegation threatened side to an established championship side, knocking on the door of the play offs. DH is (at best) treading water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EstoniaTallinnRed Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, Redtucks said: "they always seem to find a way back to the prem" ??? They've only been there twice and got relegated both times in their first season. Where are they now, incidentally??? Getting ready to beat us on Saturday, that's where! after all, don't we struggle against teams lower than us in the table (mostly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: Quite, it's called selective memory. The football is every bit as bland, the squad is pretty much the same and the results are more or less exactly the same yet Bullshit Lee is alright and Dean is a crock of shite apparently. Yep the football under LJ and his dad was like watching paint dry and so far Deano has provided pretty much the same sort of dreary football. However......although City lost at flying Brentford I thought we began to play some half decent stuff particularly in the second half and it came a genuine surprise to see City playing in an entertaining way..... Imv its way too early to slag off Deano. He’s had lots of injuries to cope with and despite that has managed to stay in the top half of the Championship - not that far off the pray off places. Let’s wait and see what Deano can provide when he has a full squad to select from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, ooRya said: Not as simple as that though. LJ took us from a relegation threatened side to an established championship side, knocking on the door of the play offs. DH is (at best) treading water It is as simple as that though. Johnson benefitted from "war chests" generated from selling Bryan, Reid, Kelly and Webster.................that's over £50m right there, and turned out exactly the same bland football that we see from Dean Holden's Bristol City and finished in exactly the same position in the table we currently occupy if not a place or two LOWER. He was able to spend seven figure sums on numerous players. Going off like an express train every season and then coming off the rails with massively long winless streaks does not constitute "knocking on the door of the play offs"........it very much tells me we were never good enough to be in the play offs, again exactly the same as now. Why are people rewriting history? Especially when that history has occurred for the last three years now, there's not even the excuse of rose tinting over time!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooRya Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Numero Uno said: It is as simple as that though. Johnson benefitted from "war chests" generated from selling Bryan, Reid, Kelly and Webster.................that's over £50m right there, and turned out exactly the same bland football that we see from Dean Holden's Bristol City and finished in exactly the same position in the table we currently occupy if not a place or two LOWER. He was able to spend seven figure sums on numerous players. Going off like an express train every season and then coming off the rails with massively long winless streaks does not constitute "knocking on the door of the play offs"........it very much tells me we were never good enough to be in the play offs, again exactly the same as now. Why are people rewriting history? Especially when that history has occurred for the last three years now, there's not even the excuse of rose tinting over time!!! Rose tinted glasses or muddied glasses...................LJ is still polarising peoples opinions! I agree, towards the end of his tenure, LJ had lost his way and the fottball on offer was dire. However, I can honestly say that I also witnessed some of the best football I've ever seen played by a City team whilst he was in charge. No doubt many will disagree, but I think we are currently going rapidly backwards under DH, at a rate that wouldn't be happening if LJ was still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Red Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 18 hours ago, markcarter said: Agree with all of this. Except I would add Jay DaSilva as an asset. Once fit and with a long run, he’ll prove to be an outstanding player and will play in the Premier League in due course. We are a bottom half team with a total novice head coach. An experienced coach would take us to mid table with the current squad, just as Johnson did for 3 years in a row. We have deserved only 4 out of our 12 wins to date on the balance of play. We are 100-1 for promotion and anyone who thinks that’s possible is living on a parallel planet. 6th place would need around 36 points from 19 matches. No chance. We are only 28-1 for relegation. 22nd place might be our fate even with 50 points as other clubs have picked up, so let’s say 12 points from 19 matches not to go down. We’ve got 27 points from the last 23 matches so a run that poor isn’t beyond possibility. Agree re JD if he comes back as the old JD. At the moment no one would look at him as not played for so long. Also agree re looking down not up. The sooner we get to 52 points the happier I will be. Our Key games are Rotherham, Sheff Weds and prob Coventry win all three and we stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutton Caveman Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Can you imagine how it would be if we got promoted as we are. Do we really want to be the team with the lowest points tally ever and getting smashed each week. We may be close to the play offs but we are a mile away from prem level in terms of squad quality, squad depth and the ability to attract half decent reasonably young players. I have resigned myself to life in the Championship with the odd cup run or scrape with the play offs. So long as we have to sell any player that turns out have decent to stay within FFP rules we just cannot make that step. If we can just have a bit of entertainment occasionally I would be happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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