Sunderland fans loving POMO’s and USP’s

[lenred]

6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That’s true of course - I just think it’s more pertinent when the subject (in this case LJ) left the club almost 2 years ago.

I genuinely think it’s sad this thread gets regurgitated whenever Sunderland hit a bad patch. Overall they seem to be doing ok.

Fair enough, but I think such divisive figures as LJ and Ashton, rightly or wrongly, will attract attention and debate for a good while to come and I suppose when they hit a bad patch that attention will be heightened. Don’t see it as a problem myself but get your POV. 

[Harry]

1 hour ago, BTRFTG said:

Harry's response is one step afar from claiming to be 'the best looking bloke in the burns unit'.

God only knows what he'd make of the Mackams themselves reminding they've the most expensive squad ever assembled at that level, that with the resource spent they should waltz out of that Division or why 5,200 supporters didn't travel to a club who's recently staved off extinction expecting to be dicked six zip ( and lucky to get zip at that.) How ungrateful must the Mackams be to overlook the success Johnson has so far delivered?

“Most expensive squad ever assembled at that level”. 
 

The fact he had to reduce the wage budget when he arrived suggests not. 
The fact todays team has 4 academy players, 4 loans, 3 free transfers and only 5 players LJ paid a fee for (4 of which were ‘nominal’), also suggests you’re talking crap again. 
 

Yes, if he doesn’t get them promoted he’ll no doubt be sacked. But cut the bull shit. It’s not very becoming for someone of your clear intellect! 

[Ska Junkie]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

Fair enough, but I think such divisive figures as LJ and Ashton, rightly or wrongly, will attract attention and debate for a good while to come and I suppose when they hit a bad patch that attention will be heightened. Don’t see it as a problem myself but get your POV. 

I wish LJ every possible success and have no issue with Sunderland, a fine club.

Ashton, on the other hand, I wish nothing but failure, wherever the slimy ***** is. No offence to Ipswich Town, I just can't stand the smarmy used car salesman. Didn't like him here, don't like him somewhere else. The man is a chancer, a charlatan.

[RobintheRed Red]

On 16/09/2021 at 23:59, RobintheRed Red said:

Very True Dave deals were scuppered when cotts went on holiday .

 

[RobintheRed Red]

On 09/02/2021 at 23:31, Frenchay Red said:

He is so full of cr@p, how on earth could Lansdown have been so taken in by it.

Probably because Ashton is also full of it!

Always been a manual manipulator will win fuxk all

[RobintheRed Red]

On 10/02/2021 at 08:45, firstdivision said:

Yes, it’s amazing how people forget. 
Also, Lee Johnson helped us to some reasonable finishing positions in the Championship. It’s amazing how people forget that. But I suppose he didn’t win the Champions League so best to rubbish him as much as possible.

Man's a *** 

[firstdivision]

5 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Man's a *** 

I don’t suppose you’ve even met him, have you? 

[The Humble Realist]

I get people might be rubbed up the wrong way by how johnson talks but why the hate ?

Served us well as a player and gave us some good albeit frustrating times as a manager. 

Didnt get us relegated. Even with all the 'problems' he allegedly left us we are no worse than when he took over.

He isnt everyones cup of tea in terms of how he speaks (I hate it!) but that's no reason to wish ill on him or the clubs he goes to. 

People hate johnson more than plenty of other managers who did nowhere near as well, and that's without taking into account his playing career too. 

 

 

[lenred]

29 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

I get people might be rubbed up the wrong way by how johnson talks but why the hate ?

Served us well as a player and gave us some good albeit frustrating times as a manager. 

Didnt get us relegated. Even with all the 'problems' he allegedly left us we are no worse than when he took over.

He isnt everyones cup of tea in terms of how he speaks (I hate it!) but that's no reason to wish ill on him or the clubs he goes to. 

People hate johnson more than plenty of other managers who did nowhere near as well, and that's without taking into account his playing career too. 

 

 

Hate is a very very strong word and certainly not one Id use with LJ at all. But I find it really hard to separate him and Ashton as a joint tenure at our club. A time when, bar a nice run in the 3rd rate cup, we had very little to shout about, played some absolutely dire football a lot of the time and spent so much money that we now are having to rebuild with the odd free transfer here and lower league signing there.  I loved that we employed him at the start it was a really progressive and positive step imho and gave him a couple of years to work it through,  but in the end he was given too much time imho.  Time and the accompanying money wasted, that could’ve been spent much more wisely possibly by a new and better manager and of course it can be said that’s SL’s fault as well that he kept him on too long….

That he kept us up given the money he had isn’t really an achievement in my eyes.  SL funded him like no other manager before and it was wasted in the main.  I’m just glad that era is over.
And in terms of what he’s doing now, I’m interested to see if he builds something at Sunderland without MA, or whether he is, as I suspect, a league 1 manager at best. Given his time here I don’t think it’s a problem to discuss it - as long as it’s in a non hateful way of course, and I wish him no ill at all. It would make a great occasion to be playing Sunderland next year if he makes it! 

Edited January 30, 2022 by lenred

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

I get people might be rubbed up the wrong way by how johnson talks but why the hate ?

Served us well as a player and gave us some good albeit frustrating times as a manager. 

Didnt get us relegated. Even with all the 'problems' he allegedly left us we are no worse than when he took over.

He isnt everyones cup of tea in terms of how he speaks (I hate it!) but that's no reason to wish ill on him or the clubs he goes to. 

People hate johnson more than plenty of other managers who did nowhere near as well, and that's without taking into account his playing career too. 

 

 

LJ still lives in our heads.  He did good things and bad things.

I think it was a divisive appointment, and he was always gonna divide opinions as a result.

I do think his heart was in the right place, but I think there are insecurities there too….and that came out in interviews.  I think he desperately cared about Bristol City, but I think he got led astray by Ashton, and allowed himself to be led astray, they fed off each other’s egos.

Met him a couple of times.  An alright bloke.  Would love to sit and listen to him talk tactics etc, but probably wouldn’t want to go down the pub with him and put the non-football world to rights.

I do think Sunderland this season will be his watershed moment.

[chinapig]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

LJ still lives in our heads.  He did good things and bad things.

I think it was a divisive appointment, and he was always gonna divide opinions as a result.

I do think his heart was in the right place, but I think there are insecurities there too….and that came out in interviews.  I think he desperately cared about Bristol City, but I think he got led astray by Ashton, and allowed himself to be led astray, they fed off each other’s egos.

Met him a couple of times.  An alright bloke.  Would love to sit and listen to him talk tactics etc, but probably wouldn’t want to go down the pub with him and put the non-football world to rights.

I do think Sunderland this season will be his watershed moment.

Yes, the combination of him and Ashton was the problem. I posted elsewhere that things might have turned out differently if he had had an experienced mentor with a deep knowledge of the game as opposed to being led by a CEO who believes he is a football expert.

[BTRFTG]

10 hours ago, Harry said:

“Most expensive squad ever assembled at that level”. 
 

The fact he had to reduce the wage budget when he arrived suggests not. 
The fact todays team has 4 academy players, 4 loans, 3 free transfers and only 5 players LJ paid a fee for (4 of which were ‘nominal’), also suggests you’re talking crap again. 
 

Yes, if he doesn’t get them promoted he’ll no doubt be sacked. But cut the bull shit. It’s not very becoming for someone of your clear intellect! 

As somebody unable to comprehend the clearly advised benefits of vaccines it comes as no surprise you struggle to appreciate why budgets have to be cut when teams get relegated and why that takes time. Doubtless you'll fail to appreciate Johnson's continuing that he deployed at City, sign player after player after player (even if on loan.) And whilst you'll point to many of these being 'free' sensible folks realise nil transfer free does not equal cheap. Loan arrangement, signing-on fees, agents commissions and, er, wages aren't free nor cheap. You'll recall the latter went from £6m to £32m under his reign here, hence why were presently screwed despite his departure two years ago.

[RobintheRed Red]

5 hours ago, firstdivision said:

I don’t suppose you’ve even met him, have you? 

I know all about how he treated the young players bully boy .

[Street red]

2 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

As somebody unable to comprehend the clearly advised benefits of vaccines it comes as no surprise you struggle to appreciate why budgets have to be cut when teams get relegated and why that takes time. Doubtless you'll fail to appreciate Johnson's continuing that he deployed at City, sign player after player after player (even if on loan.) And whilst you'll point to many of these being 'free' sensible folks realise nil transfer free does not equal cheap. Loan arrangement, signing-on fees, agents commissions and, er, wages aren't free nor cheap. You'll recall the latter went from £6m to £32m under his reign here, hence why were presently screwed despite his departure two years ago.

Exactly what Pearson has said no such thing as a FREE transfer and loans cost money etc etc We will be in a better position under Pearson than under Johnson.

[daored]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

LJ still lives in our heads.  He did good things and bad things.

I think it was a divisive appointment, and he was always gonna divide opinions as a result.

I do think his heart was in the right place, but I think there are insecurities there too….and that came out in interviews.  I think he desperately cared about Bristol City, but I think he got led astray by Ashton, and allowed himself to be led astray, they fed off each other’s egos.

Met him a couple of times.  An alright bloke.  Would love to sit and listen to him talk tactics etc, but probably wouldn’t want to go down the pub with him and put the non-football world to rights.

I do think Sunderland this season will be his watershed moment.

Plain for me Johnson wanted it too much here , might sound a strange comment but I think he wanted to out do his dad and also must have hurt him to know people were saying he was only in the team due to his dad. I think he tries to over complicate the game, no doubt he’s best results come when limited players to select. 

[BTRFTG]

39 minutes ago, Street red said:

Exactly what Pearson has said no such thing as a FREE transfer and loans cost money etc etc We will be in a better position under Pearson than under Johnson.

Different results but just compare their respective post-match interviews yesterday. Pearson didn't fall for the interviewers pointed questions, called it exactly as it was, threw nobody under a bus, gave a measured, positive response to where we are (clearly indicating that's not where he wants us to be.) Johnson spoke for a similar length of time and said, well,  I'm not sure what? There were 'pitch personalities' and 'prancing', he confirmed they'd prepared well for the match, had an excellent gameplan, was happy with the set-up. Strange then as he made muted apologies for, well, again I'm not sure? Didn't seem to shoulder any responsibility, or provide explanation as to why they shipped six. But then again, we'd seen that in many of his conferences when here. What a refreshing change we have in Nige 

[BTRFTG]

59 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

I know all about how he treated the young players bully boy .

Not forgetting all those senior pros who occupied the 'naughty step'.

One would have to have a sense of humour bypass not to laugh at his:"I could have easily played in The Premier...."

[Fordy62]

5 hours ago, The Humble Realist said:

 

Didnt get us relegated. Even with all the 'problems' he allegedly left us we are no worse than when he took over.

 

 

Presumably this is a joke?

[BTRFTG]

45 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Presumably this is a joke?

They clearly don't know one end of a balance sheet from the other. 

Good news for them being if they think a wage tab increasing from under £10m to £32m per season isn't an issue then the hike in their own utility bills will be commensurately insignificant.

[Red-Robbo]

Literally never had a problem with Johnson's interviews. All football managers come out with cliched crap at times and on some occasions use a lot of words to not say anything other than the obvious: even Mr Pearson does.

My problem came with what he did, rather than how he sounded. 

 

[The Humble Realist]

16 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

They clearly don't know one end of a balance sheet from the other. 

Good news for them being if they think a wage tab increasing from under £10m to £32m per season isn't an issue then the hike in their own utility bills will be commensurately insignificant.

My utility bills arent too much of a problem for me but appreciate the concern. 

I fear this will turn into a boring debate about Ashton/johnson/lansdown but..

1. On the pitch we were no worse off when he left for sure 

For my money virtually all off pitch shenanigans lay at Ashtons door but since you blame LJ I will go on....

2. Ok point taken about the wage bill but that would have been true for virtually all clubs like ours striving to go from bottom of the league after promotion to top half of the championship.  

3. If your blaming johnson for our wage bill being so high presumably you will give him plenty credit for Kodja,  webster , flint , bryan , reid, brownhill, pack and Kelly bringing in literally tens of millions of pounds in revenue through selling them

Caveat to all of the above : I was certainly not disappointed when johnson left and as I said his 'talk' drove me mad. Could he have done better with us YES . 

My only real point is he gets a lot of hate considering ultimately he didnt do awfully with us and gave us some decent memories. No need for people to be wishing ill on sunderland.

[BrizzleRed]

5 hours ago, chinapig said:

Yes, the combination of him and Ashton was the problem. I posted elsewhere that things might have turned out differently if he had had an experienced mentor with a deep knowledge of the game as opposed to being led by a CEO who believes he is a football expert.

Maybe so about a mentor, but how long does he have to be in the game without having someone watching over and guiding him?

I actually went over and read the Johnson thread on a Sunderland forum yesterday and guess what?  It was almost as if someone had lifted a thread from here from a couple of years ago.

According to them, he’s a bluffer, can’t stop tinkering with the starting 11 and tactics and the only time they get some consistency is when they are wracked with injuries and he’s forced to keep a settled side.  Once players are fit again, he reverts to tinkering and it turns to shit again.  He also gets lambasted for unfathomable substitutions and filling the team with diminutive, lightweight players with a total lack of battling instincts.

According to them, they can’t stand his post match interviews because of his waffle and never taking the blame for bad results and reckon he’s got a massive ego, but no record of success to back it up and seems incapable of motivating and lifting players when it really matters.  

Granted, they seem a pretty entitled lot, but I’ve got to say those criticisms sound exactly like our experiences when he was here tbh.

Those are just some of the criticisms, but he hasn’t got Mark Ashton there to share the blame with now, so what’s his excuse this time?  He just seems to have taken what he’s learned so far in his managerial career and is rinsing and repeating and unsurprisingly, getting much the same results. 

I agree he was desperate to do well with/for City, but the longer this pattern of streakyness goes on with him, the more it looks like he may never see any real success in management and should maybe stick to coaching, though even that could be debatable too!

[chinapig]

Just now, BrizzleRed said:

Maybe so about a mentor, but how long does he have to be in the game without having someone watching over and guiding him?

I actually went over and read the Johnson thread on a Sunderland forum yesterday and guess what?  It was almost as if someone had lifted a thread from here from a couple of years ago.

According to them, he’s a bluffer, can’t stop tinkering with the starting 11 and tactics and the only time they get some consistency is when they are wracked with injuries and he’s forced to keep a settled side.  Once players are fit again, he reverts to tinkering and it turns to shit again.  He also gets lambasted for unfathomable substitutions and filling the team with diminutive, lightweight players with a total lack of battling instincts.

According to them, they can’t stand his post match interviews because of his waffle and never taking the blame for bad results and reckon he’s got a massive ego, but no record of success to back it up and seems incapable of motivating and lifting players when it really matters.  

Granted, they seem a pretty entitled lot, but I’ve got to say those criticisms sound exactly like our experiences when he was here tbh.

Those are just some of the criticisms, but he hasn’t got Mark Ashton there to share the blame with now, so what’s his excuse this time?  He just seems to have taken what he’s learned so far in his managerial career and is rinsing and repeating and unsurprisingly, getting much the same results. 

I agree he was desperate to do well with/for City, but the longer this pattern of streakyness goes on with him, the more it looks like he may never see any real success in management and should maybe stick to coaching, though even that could be debatable too!

My point is he needed a mentor when he joined us not a bad influence like Ashton. An experienced Director of Football might have been ideal. The die is now cast so it's too late to change him now.

[bearded_red]

One day it may dawn on him that he isn’t actually god’s gift to football.
 

But, to be honest, I won’t hold my breath.

[Southport Red]

After the game yesterday, I heard LJ say it was his worst moment in football. Don’t know why, but I had kind of hoped losing the 2008 playoff final might have been worse, but apparently not. 

[BrizzleRed]

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

My point is he needed a mentor when he joined us not a bad influence like Ashton. An experienced Director of Football might have been ideal. The die is now cast so it's too late to change him now.

Ok got you

Yes see what you mean and it may have helped guide him onto a different path in his more formative managerial years I guess.  It also depends how much guidance he’d be prepared to take, or maybe he honestly believes his way is the right way, so who knows?  

As you say, he’s leaving it late to change now, so I think he’ll need some success pretty soon, or his stock will be on a real downward trajectory.

 

 

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

2 hours ago, Southport Red said:

After the game yesterday, I heard LJ say it was his worst moment in football. Don’t know why, but I had kind of hoped losing the 2008 playoff final might have been worse, but apparently not. 

But, but, but...he loves us!

[Numero Uno]

12 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

But, but, but...he loves us!

Well he must do to a point because he became a millionaire on the back of this club or at least it’s owner anyway……….

[Robbored]

8 hours ago, Davefevs said:

LJ still lives in our heads.  He did good things and bad things.

I think it was a divisive appointment, and he was always gonna divide opinions as a result.

I do think his heart was in the right place, but I think there are insecurities there too….and that came out in interviews.  I think he desperately cared about Bristol City, but I think he got led astray by Ashton, and allowed himself to be led astray, they fed off each other’s egos.

Met him a couple of times.  An alright bloke.  Would love to sit and listen to him talk tactics etc, but probably wouldn’t want to go down the pub with him and put the non-football world to rights.

Entirely down to his father who’s shadow he lived in the vast majority of his professional football career and to a lesser degree his managerial career. LJ desperately wants to achieve in football without his fathers input. His appointment at Sunderland might well be the opportunity to do just that. I hope he succeeds there.

I met him a couple of times and the only subject he could converse in was football and you’re right that putting the world to rights over a few pints would not be his forte.

[Finley_Smith10]

He’s just been sacked