Somebody that knows what they are doing?

[Red_Alligator]

3 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Like Klopp the clown? He'd not come but the widely acclaimed coach interviews badly after these defeats, making excuses, picking a clown of a goalie who cost more than our squad! 

For every stupid post on this forum saying 'get rid' (Lee J or Dean H) it would be nice to get one sensible suggestion from us fans as to who would come to work for the most generous and patient owner in the country. 

Go on smartie, give us one name, though you sound so sure of yourself you can probably come up with ten? 

I'm waiting. 

Well in the last instance Hampshire, many people, including fans, writers and pundits alike saw one candidate in particular as a stand out choice

There were other strong candidates too, dutifully passed up.

As for "Klopp the clown", I can only assume you're generally not well disposed towards Liverpool FC. 

[italian dave]

2 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Excellent post Jon

One of your very best
 

I would be considering the German DoF and coach market too I think , but the issue I see with that is post Brexit recruitment from Germany ( player wise ) and players from Europe that they might normally have eyes on would be difficult to bring here

If it wasn’t for this I’d definitely be scrutinising German Options in DoF and HC roles

Like you, agree with @JonDolman's post completely. I'd say look even wider. But you make a good point and I guess that would be a real problem now? Another reason why we really missed a trick when we replaced LJ - we could have still brought in someone's from Germany then.

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, Eastend said:

For the love of god,  can we just bring in somebody that knows what they are doing and how to management a squad of professional footballers! I get that finances are tight, but every other club is in the same situation. 

And half of them are doing even worse than us. 

I'm being devils advocate saying that: I get where you're coming from and I find some of Holdens recent decisions, especially how we set up and how we use subs, completely baffling. Not baffling in the way LJ was, where there seemed to be maybe something in there that we couldn't work out and sometimes it came off, but baffling in the sense that everyone on OTIB can see how that's going to work out - and it does!

But, I think it was Jean Paul Sartre who said that everything in football is complicated by the other team - and that's the problem. It's not that simple. Yes every other club is in the same position, yes on paper it's that simple for every other club too, but at the end of the day one team wins and one has to lose, and someone has to finish bottom!

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

Good post Jon . However , we have incompetence running the football club . The last decent manager & head scout was appointed by a man no longer at the club . The current owner & CEO are bloody clueless in football terms , so unfortunately you’re wasting your time. 

Just so I can understand where you are coming from, what is your back ground in football and your inside knowledge of how it works to judge as you continually post SL & MA have no idea and try to make out they are idiots and should be driven from the club.

My guess is that SL knows a damn site more about it than you, having been involved and then owned the club since 1996 and MA has been involved for at least 30 years at a senior level including being CEO of Watford.

Things are not good, but it's always easy to say what is wrong with hindsight, but to keep on making out you know more about running a football club than them is ridiculous, of course unless you can prove me wrong with your answer to the first bit.

Reality of it is SL, is happy to fund the club, but does not want to be doing the day to day running, so he employs a CEO to do this, a very common occurrence within football and outside of it. The CEO heads up many different areas of the business making day to day decisions on how we operate, but referring back to SL on any major expenditure or large impact decisions. 

When they got rid of LJ which was the right thing to do as the clubs progression had been halted, it would seem the initial plans were for a high profile manager, but something changed within that 6 weeks. I do not believe it was anything to do with managers saying I cant work for MA, as simply they would know the structure before interview and would not have bothered. The managers interviewed would have submitted there analysis of where it was going wrong and what they need to change to achieve a top 6 finish. I suspect the costing of these plans was significant, so maybe with the uncertainty of covid it was a large risk. Alternatively DH was proposing a few cheap minor additions to the squad and as he had been OK in the caretaker role, this was a lower risk option, to keep going and maybe make top 6.

Unfortunately DH plans, have been hampered by the injuries and now is being badly exposed for lack of experience and tactical astuteness, which is why he must go.

SL, has not become a billionaire by being some sort of bumbling idiot, he will know and understand the reasons why DH was appointed and also why others were not and if MA is a block to getting the right man in, then his role would have to change or he would leave the club, which I would not be upset to see happen as I don't particularly like him either.

 

[Eastend]

4 hours ago, Hampshire Red said:

Like Klopp the clown? He'd not come but the widely acclaimed coach interviews badly after these defeats, making excuses, picking a clown of a goalie who cost more than our squad! 

For every stupid post on this forum saying 'get rid' (Lee J or Dean H) it would be nice to get one sensible suggestion from us fans as to who would come to work for the most generous and patient owner in the country. 

Go on smartie, give us one name, though you sound so sure of yourself you can probably come up with ten? 

I'm waiting. 

If finances are tight and we don’t want to go for an ‘expensive’ option I would suggest somebody like Paul Cook or Karl Robinson. 
 

However if for some miracle MA has banged his head and we decide to go down the ‘proven manager at this level’ route then I’d suggest Frank Lampard, Eddie Howe or David Wagner.

I expect that latter is far less realistic. 
 

whatever happens. Holden is dangerous at the helm and we could see ourselves in a lot more trouble if we don’t act FAST!

[Sheltons Army]

56 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Like you, agree with @JonDolman's post completely. I'd say look even wider. But you make a good point and I guess that would be a real problem now? Another reason why we really missed a trick when we replaced LJ - we could have still brought in someone's from Germany then.

South America is suggested as a more open door now Dave (Player Work permit wise post Brexit)

But I can see us scouring Chile or Argentina for our HC !

 

Botswana would be a more likely bet

[steviestevieneville]

54 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Just so I can understand where you are coming from, what is your back ground in football and your inside knowledge of how it works to judge as you continually post SL & MA have no idea and try to make out they are idiots and should be driven from the club.

My guess is that SL knows a damn site more about it than you, having been involved and then owned the club since 1996 and MA has been involved for at least 30 years at a senior level including being CEO of Watford.

Things are not good, but it's always easy to say what is wrong with hindsight, but to keep on making out you know more about running a football club than them is ridiculous, of course unless you can prove me wrong with your answer to the first bit.

Reality of it is SL, is happy to fund the club, but does not want to be doing the day to day running, so he employs a CEO to do this, a very common occurrence within football and outside of it. The CEO heads up many different areas of the business making day to day decisions on how we operate, but referring back to SL on any major expenditure or large impact decisions. 

When they got rid of LJ which was the right thing to do as the clubs progression had been halted, it would seem the initial plans were for a high profile manager, but something changed within that 6 weeks. I do not believe it was anything to do with managers saying I cant work for MA, as simply they would know the structure before interview and would not have bothered. The managers interviewed would have submitted there analysis of where it was going wrong and what they need to change to achieve a top 6 finish. I suspect the costing of these plans was significant, so maybe with the uncertainty of covid it was a large risk. Alternatively DH was proposing a few cheap minor additions to the squad and as he had been OK in the caretaker role, this was a lower risk option, to keep going and maybe make top 6.

Unfortunately DH plans, have been hampered by the injuries and now is being badly exposed for lack of experience and tactical astuteness, which is why he must go.

SL, has not become a billionaire by being some sort of bumbling idiot, he will know and understand the reasons why DH was appointed and also why others were not and if MA is a block to getting the right man in, then his role would have to change or he would leave the club, which I would not be upset to see happen as I don't particularly like him either.

 

I don’t have a background . It’s my opinion. SL has no background in football at all he wasn’t a football fan . It was only when Jon wanted to go SL got involved . His skill set is business finance not football & he’s proved it time & again. Similar in regards to Ashton but failed at Watford & Oxford . He’s just like me in that he’s a failed footballer and just like me he has no qualifications to run football recruitment/ scouting . You don’t believe managers wouldn’t join because of our current recruitment set up. Even though Ashton said as much himself on the radio the other week. The rest of your post are just excuses . If you want to stick your head in the sand fine . Just don’t be surprised if we’re in a relegation battle in a few weeks. 

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Sheltons Army said:

Excellent post Jon

One of your very best
 

I would be considering the German DoF and coach market too I think , but the issue I see with that is post Brexit recruitment from Germany ( player wise ) and players from Europe that they might normally have eyes on would be difficult to bring here

If it wasn’t for this I’d definitely be scrutinising German Options in DoF and HC roles

I like a good German market

3 hours ago, JonDolman said:

I do give him praise. I've even got a profile pic with his face on!

Just that if we were to let him go then what I suggested is a possible route.

I actually think we have a good squad of players even with all the injuries we have. 

Mawson and Williams injuries he didn't help prevent himself by playing them in the cup when both been out for so long before that. 

In recent months he's really struggled to know how to play.

He thinks Fam and Wells are an effective partnership. And he thinks Lansbury is a holding midfielder. 

He's making some very basic mistakes now. But he started brilliantly. Obviously had a terrible time with injuries. 

It is not simply the ability of players we have, but the profile of player Holden seems to want to bring to the club.

And as he wants experienced leaders, Brunt and then Lansbury for example, it was a huge mistake releasing Korey who is better than both.

Certainly fair enough to expect better than what we have seen for a while I think. Who knows maybe we win some and things start looking good again. Doesn't look good though looking at the fixtures 

Jon, don’t waste your time.  You made an excellent, thought provoking post.  Trying to explain your rationale to some posters on here isn’t worth it.  Stick them on ignore and have good debate with people who can take a bit of give and take even when not in agreement.

[sh1t_ref_again]

7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I don’t have a background . It’s my opinion. SL has no background in football at all he wasn’t a football fan . It was only when Jon wanted to go SL got involved . His skill set is business finance not football & he’s proved it time & again. Similar in regards to Ashton but failed at Watford & Oxford . He’s just like me in that he’s a failed footballer and just like me he has no qualifications to run football recruitment/ scouting . You don’t believe managers wouldn’t join because of our current recruitment set up. Even though Ashton said as much himself on the radio the other week. The rest of your post are just excuses . If you want to stick your head in the sand fine . Just don’t be surprised if we’re in a relegation battle in a few weeks. 

As I thought an expert opinion constantly calling out SL & MA but no knowledge of the issues of running a football club

Sorry SL now has 24 years of being involved with BCFC and as such will have had a lot of contact with managers and other people in the game, so I suspect will know a lot about running a club. So what do your need to be in your opinion to make you a football person and qualified to own a club?  is OK to have just been a fan, or should he played football as a kid or play play professionally perhaps, what level, L1 min, prem world cup?, the reality is not many people who own football clubs will fit your profile, and its because they don't need to be, but most tend to be very successful businessmen who know how to achieve.

You say MA failed and is unqualified, well he was at Watford for nearly 5 years and WBA for 14 years, so cant of been that bad, but your point he was not a football person which again is wrong.

I said managers would not have bothered interviewing which we know that Cook and Houghton did if they could not work with MA, that's not to say what Geoff Twentymen said about certain managers would not work under MA is also correct, and I went onto say that maybe his role needs to change or needs to leave if he is the barrier.

Far from sticking my head in the sand, I want DH gone and a new top manager brought in with whatever changes are required.

What I am not is naive enough to think that MA & SL are idiots and have no football knowledge and that the decisions were not taken for a reason and that reason is not to try and run the club into the ground. 

 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

As I thought an expert opinion constantly calling out SL & MA but no knowledge of the issues of running a football club

Sorry SL now has 24 years of being involved with BCFC and as such will have had a lot of contact with managers and other people in the game, so I suspect will know a lot about running a club. So what do your need to be in your opinion to make you a football person and qualified to own a club?  is OK to have just been a fan, or should he played football as a kid or play play professionally perhaps, what level, L1 min, prem world cup?, the reality is not many people who own football clubs will fit your profile, and its because they don't need to be, but most tend to be very successful businessmen who know how to achieve.

You say MA failed and is unqualified, well he was at Watford for nearly 5 years and WBA for 14 years, so cant of been that bad, but your point he was not a football person which again is wrong.

I said managers would not have bothered interviewing which we know that Cook and Houghton did if they could not work with MA, that's not to say what Geoff Twentymen said about certain managers would not work under MA is also correct, and I went onto say that maybe his role needs to change or needs to leave if he is the barrier.

Far from sticking my head in the sand, I want DH gone and a new top manager brought in with whatever changes are required.

What I am not is naive enough to think that MA & SL are idiots and have no football knowledge and that the decisions were not taken for a reason and that reason is not to try and run the club into the ground. 

 

They know how to run a football club business, they know eff all about the football playing and talent id side of things.  Leave that to the football people.

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

They know how to run a football club business, they know eff all about the football playing and talent id side of things.  Leave that to the football people.

Don't disagree, SL certainly does not pick which players to buy, and as I understand the process the coach identifies the type of player he needs, the recruitment team and analysis come up with a list of possibles that would be available and in budget and make the recommendations back to the head coach to decide who he wants, prior to MA doing the negotiations.

Now not saying the teams responsible for the scouting are up to it, and that is something that MA is answerable for or needs to address, but it would seem to be "football" people making those decisions, albeit not necessarily very well at times?

[Redtrojan]

How disappointing is this season turning out to be.We seem to be in an endless cycle of false dawns and mediocrity . I didn’t mind the LJ appointment he had actually done something at couple of other clubs.And people have short memories of how well we played in that cup run and the matches around that. Unfortunately he did seem to run out of ideas therefore a change was the right decision,However he was quite hamstrung by having to sell his best players. The farce around the Holden appointment when clearly anyone could see we wouldn’t have taken six weeks and then suggested he was the best candidate for the job, they take us for fools.

It is time for a drastic change. If Mark Ashton is the problem with appointments then he needs to move on and I hope we are looking at proven  but hungry managers like Eddie Howe who are currently doing nothing. I will be slightly concerned about looking abroad as that doesn’t always work out well anyone remember Benny??

We deserve better.

 

 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Don't disagree, SL certainly does not pick which players to buy, and as I understand the process the coach identifies the type of player he needs, the recruitment team and analysis come up with a list of possibles that would be available and in budget and make the recommendations back to the head coach to decide who he wants, prior to MA doing the negotiations.

Now not saying the teams responsible for the scouting are up to it, and that is something that MA is answerable for or needs to address, but it would seem to be "football" people making those decisions, albeit not necessarily very well at times?

I don’t disagree with that either.  I guess I’m poorly articulating that if the head-coach says I want “player x type”, the analysts go away and do their stuff and come back with a few players to discuss, I want to know who, other than the head-coach (who has laid out the requirements in the first place) is challenging 1) the results of the search and 2) the requirements in the first place.

A practical / hypothetical example.

LJ: I want a winger like Antony Knockaert (we know this is actually factual)

Talent ID team: here you go, here’s, x, y, and Eliasson.  They all meet the brief, budget, availability etc.

LJ: ta, I’ll take a look 

LJ (after review): Mark, go and get me Eliasson

This is where a football-person challenges differently to MA.

MA might well ask, you’ve already got O’Dowda, Paterson, Di Girolama.

LJ: it’s not enough, I need 4, two on each side

MA: ok, I’m on it

But the football person / true DoF / Head of recruitment asks:

• is Knockaert the right player to base your search on?  He’s playing in a Brighton side geared up for their system.  He might not look the same player in our system, in fact....
• ....what is the system you intend to play.  We ended the season 4231 with Brownhill playing inside and Pato on the left coming inside.  Maybe we need to find another Brownhill.  He gave us a really nice balance and if you got another player like him you could perm Josh, Korey and Marlon, whilst having flexibility....and ability to rest each one when needed.
• what is Eliasson like without the ball, is he disciplined in his shape
• are you still after Leko too, they are very different, what is it about Leko that you like, as it appears to contradict what you want from Eliasson
• what does this do to academy prospects like Opi Edwards
• etc

Basically you have someone that ensures full due-diligence is done.

 

[Ska Junkie]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

They know how to run a football club business, they know eff all about the football playing and talent id side of things.  Leave that to the football people.

This.

If Ashton kept out of the football decisions and concentrated on the financial and business side of BCFC, leaving the 'football' people to look after the recruitment and first team etc, I could stomach it but he appears to be in charge of pretty much everything when there should be experienced football people making football decisions, not the CEO. Surely his remit is financial performance and feeding back issues surrounding the playing side, not running that as well?

[sh1t_ref_again]

19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t disagree with that either.  I guess I’m poorly articulating that if the head-coach says I want “player x type”, the analysts go away and do their stuff and come back with a few players to discuss, I want to know who, other than the head-coach (who has laid out the requirements in the first place) is challenging 1) the results of the search and 2) the requirements in the first place.

A practical / hypothetical example.

LJ: I want a winger like Antony Knockaert (we know this is actually factual)

Talent ID team: here you go, here’s, x, y, and Eliasson.  They all meet the brief, budget, availability etc.

LJ: ta, I’ll take a look 

LJ (after review): Mark, go and get me Eliasson

This is where a football-person challenges differently to MA.

MA might well ask, you’ve already got O’Dowda, Paterson, Di Girolama.

LJ: it’s not enough, I need 4, two on each side

MA: ok, I’m on it

But the football person / true DoF / Head of recruitment asks:

• is Knockaert the right player to base your search on?  He’s playing in a Brighton side geared up for their system.  He might not look the same player in our system, in fact....
• ....what is the system you intend to play.  We ended the season 4231 with Brownhill playing inside and Pato on the left coming inside.  Maybe we need to find another Brownhill.  He gave us a really nice balance and if you got another player like him you could perm Josh, Korey and Marlon, whilst having flexibility....and ability to rest each one when needed.
• what is Eliasson like without the ball, is he disciplined in his shape
• are you still after Leko too, they are very different, what is it about Leko that you like, as it appears to contradict what you want from Eliasson
• what does this do to academy prospects like Opi Edwards
• etc

Basically you have someone that ensures full due-diligence is done.

 

In effect what you are suggesting is more control of what the head coach wants, by another football person DOF?, would that not put more manager off

 

[marmite]

5 hours ago, Slack Bladder said:

Have the board been really clever here?

When LJ was sacked our expectations were high that some experienced manager was lined up and waiting in the wings. However after 6 weeks of faffing around it was clearly evident we had actually sacked LJ with no plan in mind. They then appoint somebody way below the expectations of the fans and we are not surprisingly in the position that we are.

Now the board are in a position where they can appoint virtually any manager they like and the fans will just be grateful. This new manager could be well below the expectations of what we were expecting after LJ left. But hey, anything is better than we have right now.

Did you really put "the board" and "really clever" in the same sentance? 

[sh1t_ref_again]

13 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

This.

If Ashton kept out of the football decisions and concentrated on the financial and business side of BCFC, leaving the 'football' people to look after the recruitment and first team etc, I could stomach it but he appears to be in charge of pretty much everything when there should be experienced football people making football decisions, not the CEO. Surely his remit is financial performance and feeding back issues surrounding the playing side, not running that as well?

 

 

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Don't disagree, SL certainly does not pick which players to buy, and as I understand the process the coach identifies the type of player he needs, the recruitment team and analysis come up with a list of possibles that would be available and in budget and make the recommendations back to the head coach to decide who he wants, prior to MA doing the negotiations.

Now not saying the teams responsible for the scouting are up to it, and that is something that MA is answerable for or needs to address, but it would seem to be "football" people making those decisions, albeit not necessarily very well at times?

According to MA what I described in my reply is how it works and nothing I have seen officially elsewhere to contradict this, only fans speculation trying to have a dig and more jumping on the bandwagon. Which if this is the case does not have the influence on footballing matters other than over seeing them. He may from a financial view point, by saying you already have too many players or we cannot afford XYZ.

For whats it worth, I agree the head coach manager should be totally in control of what players come in or out and how they are played, as on there head be it with results.

 

[Ska Junkie]

2 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

 

 

According to MA what I described in my reply is how it works and nothing I have seen officially elsewhere to contradict this, only fans speculation trying to have a dig and more jumping on the bandwagon. Which if this is the case does not have the influence on footballing matters other than over seeing them. He may from a financial view point, by saying you already have too many players or we cannot afford XYZ.

For whats it worth, I agree the head coach manager should be totally in control of what players come in or out and how they are played, as on there head be it with results.

 

Thanks Sra.

I do agree with your summation, the only thing Slimy should be involved in player wise, is what they are paid nd contractual organisation, not, as you say, which players and how they are played. He appears to have far too much power on the football side of the club.

[MATT BCFC]

Listen to the football weekly podcast and Marcus Bean on there always talks a lot of sense. He's currently doing the course to become a director of football I believe and pretty sure he's currently at Brentford. 

Someone like him who has an excellent knowledge base of the English game and has talked about wanting to play good football would be a good choice of director of football for me. 

 

[Davefevs]

Just now, sh1t_ref_again said:

In effect what you are suggesting is more control of what the head coach wants, by another football person DOF?, would that not put more manager off

 

Yes and No!

I do want more control, because we’ve spent willy-nilly with no plan with LJ and MA. I want to head-coach to have to better articulate his player requirements, I want the DoF to help him do that, because they’ve set the plan together.  I want the DoF to completely understand what the head-coach wants and why.

If the DoF is already in place at appointment then the DoF is key to the interview process in understanding the prospective manager’s evaluation of squad, plan for squad etc.  If not then the head-coach plays a part in evaluating prospective DoF’s credentials, as would the CEO as it’s a two way reporting line.

[BS4 on Tour...]

5 hours ago, Red Exile said:

Back in the summer, as I recall, the names in the OTIB frame were Hughton, Cook and McCarthy. Now, we are often accused of being a fickle know-nothing bunch but just for once we're demonstrably ahead of the club in our assessments. Hughton has one defeat in 11 at Forest, turning their season around, and big Mick did a number on Holden. Cook is still out there.

Any one of the three would have been streets ahead of what we got...as predicted.

McCarthy was, and has been, written off by so many on here - the lazy ‘dinosaur’ tag has been thrown his way by those who know best on OTIB - I got fed up of highlighting his phenomenal track record at this level - and as for the ‘dinosaur’ slur - McCarthy is a couple of months younger than Chris Hughton - the same guy who so many wanted to be our next manager yet they didn’t saddle him with the ‘dinosaur’ jibe - they just assumed he was younger than McCarthy, laughable ...

[lenred]

12 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

Listen to the football weekly podcast and Marcus Bean on there always talks a lot of sense. He's currently doing the course to become a director of football I believe and pretty sure he's currently at Brentford. 

Someone like him who has an excellent knowledge base of the English game and has talked about wanting to play good football would be a good choice of director of football for me. 

 

Agree he’s very very good but we’d ruin him. I just don’t think we would give control to a DoF that they would need to turn us around and as such I don’t think that the model would work. Too much meddling imho with MA, JL and SL. May be wrong of course and would love to be proved so. 

[MATT BCFC]

4 minutes ago, lenred said:

Agree he’s very very good but we’d ruin him. I just don’t think we would give control to a DoF that they would need to turn us around and as such I don’t think that the model would work. Too much meddling imho with MA, JL and SL. May be wrong of course and would love to be proved so. 

Yep think your right sadly. We would need to get rid of MA and JL for it to work. 

[chinapig]

29 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

 

 

According to MA what I described in my reply is how it works and nothing I have seen officially elsewhere to contradict this, only fans speculation trying to have a dig and more jumping on the bandwagon. Which if this is the case does not have the influence on footballing matters other than over seeing them. He may from a financial view point, by saying you already have too many players or we cannot afford XYZ.

For whats it worth, I agree the head coach manager should be totally in control of what players come in or out and how they are played, as on there head be it with results.

 

So the question somebody should put to Ashton is "What qualifies you to be in charge of talent identification and recruitment (and indeed all day to day football operations), given that you are an administrator not a football expert?"

 As @Davefevsputs it, he's a wannabe.

[sh1t_ref_again]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

So the question somebody should put to Ashton is "What qualifies you to be in charge of talent identification and recruitment (and indeed all day to day football operations), given that you are an administrator not a football expert?"

 As @Davefevsputs it, he's a wannabe.

He employs a team of people to do that, when you manage you don't need to be an expert in every area, but you do need to employ the right people.

In this thread @Davefevs has advocated having a DOF, which maybe a way forward, but I have also been trying to work out if their is enough to keep a person employed or if really needed. If we had a good proven manager these issues will be resolved because they will have a strong vision of how to achieve and what is needed from other parts of the business. At the moment we have a nice guy, friend to the players and not a clue how to affect a plan.

[chinapig]

5 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

He employs a team of people to do that, when you manage you don't need to be an expert in every area, but you do need to employ the right people.

In this thread @Davefevs has advocated having a DOF, which maybe a way forward, but I have also been trying to work out if their is enough to keep a person employed or if really needed. If we had a good proven manager these issues will be resolved because they will have a strong vision of how to achieve and what is needed from other parts of the business. At the moment we have a nice guy, friend to the players and not a clue how to affect a plan.

He has a team of analysts and what he proudly calls his database. The purpose of analysis is to provide information for a subject expert to interpret and make decisions.

I myself have recently provided analytical services to some senior people in the public sector (not Covid related I should add!). I don't tell them what to decide as they are the experts in their area. I just give then some tools to work with.

Ashton is not a subject expert in this context yet he decides on a shortlist of players the head coach is allowed to choose from.

As to not needing experts at the top, I for one would not be happy to have, say, an unqualified finance director. Why would it be different on the football side?

[Ska Junkie]

2 minutes ago, chinapig said:

He has a team of analysts and what he proudly calls his database. The purpose of analysis is to provide information for a subject expert to interpret and make decisions.

I myself have recently provided analytical services to some senior people in the public sector (not Covid related I should add!). I don't tell them what to decide as they are the experts in their area. I just give then some tools to work with.

Ashton is not a subject expert in this context yet he decides on a shortlist of players the head coach is allowed to choose from.

As to not needing experts at the top, I for one would not be happy to have, say, an unqualified finance director. Why would it be different on the football side?

I'm not doubting this at all CP but it's absolutely scandalous if it's true. Footballing decisions, contracts apart should be naff all to do with our non footballing CEO, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

This exactly the sort of thing that winds me up re Slimey.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Just now, chinapig said:

He has a team of analysts and what he proudly calls his database. The purpose of analysis is to provide information for a subject expert to interpret and make decisions.

I myself have recently provided analytical services to some senior people in the public sector (not Covid related I should add!). I don't tell them what to decide as they are the experts in their area. I just give then some tools to work with.

Ashton is not a subject expert in this context yet he decides on a shortlist of players the head coach is allowed to choose from.

As to not needing experts at the top, I for one would not be happy to have, say, an unqualified finance director. Why would it be different on the football side?

Your making assumptions about what is presented to the head coach, also if we had a competent head coach he would the one to making the footballing decisions and give the green light for MA to try and get. The list may be filtered for all sorts of reasons other than deciding if right for the team, ie club strategy on age, possible re-sell value, perceived problem player, agents / clubs we won't deal with, maybe a whole list of considerations

[chinapig]

2 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

I'm not doubting this at all CP but it's absolutely scandalous if it's true. Footballing decisions, contracts apart should be naff all to do with our non footballing CEO, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

This exactly the sort of thing that winds me up re Slimey.

Ashton himself told Twentyman that he provided the head coach with a shortlist of players by the way.

[John Galley]

6 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

What a strange post. There are plenty of managers who’d come to work under Lansdown. The issue is probably Ashton.

You hit the nail on the head, that’s why we lost Steve Cotterill they appointed Mark Ashton and then sacked him. Steve Cotterill was a proper manager who had control over everything on the playing side and would not work under Ashton so they sacked him. The worst thing the club ever did and that’s why we have ended up in the situation we are in now.