Bristol R*vers dustbin thread

[pongo88]

The longer this goes on, the more I realise how clever Nick Higgs was and how deluded Wael is. Nick Higgs managed to convince Wael that Rovers had a watertight contract with Sainsbury, a new ground was a certainly, megabucks payback was a certainty and he managed to offload the club to him. Normally when there is a takeover of any kind, there is a period of due diligence where the finances of the organisation being taken over are examined in detail. Nick Higgs obviously used the bullsh*t baffles brains technique so that Wael didn’t bother to check the detail 

[Maesknoll Red]

5 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

The more I hear and read about Wael the more I'm convinced he's a con-artist in the same mould as that Brookes Mileson weirdo who apparently "bankrolled" Gretna to the SPL, then suddenly "stopped pumping money in" (If he ever actually had any) causing them to fold.

 

Is that really fair on Mileson, my understanding was that he fell ill and died, his family weren’t in the least interested in spending their inheritance on a football club, hence the financial issues.  At least that’s the way I remember reading about it when it happened.

Unless a wealthy owner has put a trust fund/financial arrangements  in place or his heirs are equally as keen, then it could happen to any small club - could Billericay Town suffer a similar fate if their owner died?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The longer this goes on, the more I realise how clever Nick Higgs was and how deluded Wael is. Nick Higgs managed to convince Wael that Rovers had a watertight contract with Sainsbury, a new ground was a certainly, megabucks payback was a certainty and he managed to offload the club to him. Normally when there is a takeover of any kind, there is a period of due diligence where the finances of the organisation being taken over are examined in detail. Nick Higgs obviously used the bullsh*t baffles brains technique so that Wael didn’t bother to check the detail 

Nick has sold London Bridge again.

[Red Bill]

Surely the day when we see them on "Can't pay - take it away" cannot be far off.  The only question is.....take what?  Garden furniture?  Camping goods?  Portaloos?  The mind boggles.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Red Bill said:

Surely the day when we see them on "Can't pay - take it away" cannot be far off.  The only question is.....take what?  Garden furniture?  Camping goods?  Portaloos?  The mind boggles.

Well it's not going to be horse tack

[View from the Dolman]

26 minutes ago, Red Bill said:

Surely the day when we see them on "Can't pay - take it away" cannot be far off.  The only question is.....take what?  Garden furniture?  Camping goods?  Portaloos?  The mind boggles.

They'll be in esteemed company alongside Swindon Town!

[ZiderEyed]

43 minutes ago, Red Bill said:

Surely the day when we see them on "Can't pay - take it away" cannot be far off.  The only question is.....take what?  Garden furniture?  Camping goods?  Portaloos?  The mind boggles.

The Arabic children on exercise bikes beneath the pitch powering the sprinklers?

[Ska Junkie]

Why buy the land at Almondsbury though? That's what I don't get. If he's bought that with money allegedly secured against their only asset, for land that can't be used for housing, what's the point in owning it if he's gonna do a runner? I appreciate it's his big brother who supposedly controls the purse strings but I don't see the value in owning the colony if he's a con man?

I get the impression that big bruv bought the gas as a 'toy' to keep little bruv out of the way and give him something to do but he ain't being allowed any pocket money.

Here's another question, I understand they're looking for 'outside investment' for any redevelopment, what possible benefit is there for any investor putting money into a redeveloped stadium? Why would anyone do it? That's in general and, rarely, not a snipe at the methane snorters.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Is that really fair on Mileson, my understanding was that he fell ill and died, his family weren’t in the least interested in spending their inheritance on a football club, hence the financial issues.  At least that’s the way I remember reading about it when it happened.

Unless a wealthy owner has put a trust fund/financial arrangements  in place or his heirs are equally as keen, then it could happen to any small club - could Billericay Town suffer a similar fate if their owner died?

Barnsley fans are very worried as their owner`s family apparently have no interest in running the club when he inevitably succumbs to the cancer that`s killing him.

[Fiale]

9 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Why buy the land at Almondsbury though? That's what I don't get. If he's bought that with money allegedly secured against their only asset, for land that can't be used for housing, what's the point in owning it if he's gonna do a runner? I appreciate it's his big brother who supposedly controls the purse strings but I don't see the value in owning the colony if he's a con man?

I get the impression that big bruv bought the gas as a 'toy' to keep little bruv out of the way and give him something to do but he ain't being allowed any pocket money.

Here's another question, I understand they're looking for 'outside investment' for any redevelopment, what possible benefit is there for any investor putting money into a redeveloped stadium? Why would anyone do it? That's in general and, rarely, not a snipe at the methane snorters.

 

 

Land is not a bad investment if you can get it cheap. Bristol will have to expand at some point it's creaking at the artificial green belt joints. 

I tend to agree with you though, they bought a club (I am sure we all at some point thought it would be nice to be owners) and hoped to make a little money. The investment side collapsed, so now they are unsure what to do. Suddenly they cannot show friends around THEIR football clubs spanking new stadium with corporate boxes and restaurants,  hosting events,  inviting them to matches to hang out with them. So now, what to do ?

[Guest]

I think the most likely explanation is he fancied a project, bought Rovers in good faith, the media blew up his 'wealth' incorrectly and he was naive not to be transparent. His plan probably was never to pump loads of money in, and over time it's become less and less attractive and too expensive a toy. 

There isn't really anything suspicious simply from gaining finance through mortgaging. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, pongo88 said:

The longer this goes on, the more I realise how clever Nick Higgs was and how deluded Wael is. Nick Higgs managed to convince Wael that Rovers had a watertight contract with Sainsbury, a new ground was a certainly, megabucks payback was a certainty and he managed to offload the club to him. Normally when there is a takeover of any kind, there is a period of due diligence where the finances of the organisation being taken over are examined in detail. Nick Higgs obviously used the bullsh*t baffles brains technique so that Wael didn’t bother to check the detail 

I`m not so sure. He could be a very clever man and knew exactly what he was doing - buy in, asset strip the club and show a healthy profit for the family.

[Ska Junkie]

Of course, when they took over, the sainsbury's ££££ was on the table wasn't it? 

[Port Said Red]

2 hours ago, Ska Junkie said:

If that's racist, I'm a banana! I don't do PC PSR but would, respectfully, suggest if you're that easily offended, maybe a football forum, with it's odd humour, is the wrong place?

Ah so he really is a "camel herder"? Sorry as you were..... 

[Ska Junkie]

6 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Ah so he really is a "camel herder"? Sorry as you were..... 

With all respect, as you're a good poster, stop looking for things to be offended by please. If you can't see that was light hearted, that's your issue and not mine.

I guess the same applies to El H and James who agreed with you. 

Move on or report me for racism, I don't really care.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Ska Junkie

[Fiale]

8 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Of course, when they took over, the sainsbury's ££££ was on the table wasn't it? 

 

yep, for a couple of million they get a team and brand new stadium - probably couldn't believe their luck.

[pongo88]

10 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

I`m not so sure. He could be a very clever man and knew exactly what he was doing - buy in, asset strip the club and show a healthy profit for the family.

If so he’s got to asset strip very soon. The money he put in to buy the club plus ongoing losses means the total investment must be getting close to the only tangible asset - the land at Filton Avenue. 

[Ska Junkie]

2 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

If so he’s got to asset strip very soon. The money he put in to buy the club plus ongoing losses means the total investment must be getting close to the only tangible asset - the land at Filton Avenue. 

Hasn't he mortgaged that to the hilt though? That asset is surely worth less and less with each additional interest payment.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Ska Junkie

[kevthered]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Pretty much except I would prefer it if we could avoid descending to their level and not use the racial stereotypes.

Agree....The might get the hump

[1960maaan]

19 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

If so he’s got to asset strip very soon. 

Not necessarily . He may have a plan to do to others what he allowed to happen to him.
Get land and planning (in principle) , the manager is highly respected , the team was doing ok and they have a stadium ground . Find a gullible buyer who doesn't do due diligence , if they can find another like him , and flog the whole house of cards at a profit. Of course you have to find a right plum , and a rich one . Maybe he has another brother 

[Port Said Red]

23 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

With all respect, as you're a good poster, stop looking for things to be offended by please. If you can't see that was light hearted, that's your issue and not mine.

I guess the same applies to El H and James who agreed with you. 

Move on or report me for racism, I don't really care.

I think you are a good poster too, and that was why I mentioned it. Alright it's not a nasty term, but I just think you are better than that. I criticise the gasheads for their racist tendencies; which are clearly worse than anything you have posted, but I feel like we have so many other ways to take a shot at them, we don't need to use those terms.

I am sorry if you think I have overreacted, but it came from a good place.

 

[Ska Junkie]

Just now, Port Said Red said:

I think you are a good poster too, and that was why I mentioned it. Alright it's not a nasty term, but I just think you are better than that. I criticise the gasheads for their racist tendencies; which are clearly worse than anything you have posted, but I feel like we have so many other ways to take a shot at them, we don't need to use those terms.

I am sorry if you think I have overreacted, but it came from a good place.

 

No offence but you appear to me calling me a racist or a user of phrases with 'racist tendencies' and I will not accept that at all from anyone. I am genuinely offended. If it means that much to you, report it.

It was a joke term but you're making an issue of it and, to be fair, have support so it's your call. 

I have nothing further to say.

[Port Said Red]

9 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

No offence but you appear to me calling me a racist or a user of phrases with 'racist tendencies' and I will not accept that at all from anyone. I am genuinely offended. If it means that much to you, report it.

It was a joke term but you're making an issue of it and, to be fair, have support so it's your call. 

I have nothing further to say.

No I don't want to make an issue of It. I guess it can be seen as no worse than sheepshagger type references, so as you say I am probably overreacting.

[BS15_RED]

3 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Pretty much except I would prefer it if we could avoid descending to their level and not use the racial stereotypes.

Come on fella, it’s just a bit of banter, there’s no need to be sanctimonious and be offended on other people’s behalf.

[Rich]

2 hours ago, pongo88 said:

The longer this goes on, the more I realise how clever Nick Higgs was and how deluded Wael is. Nick Higgs managed to convince Wael that Rovers had a watertight contract with Sainsbury, a new ground was a certainly, megabucks payback was a certainty and he managed to offload the club to him. Normally when there is a takeover of any kind, there is a period of due diligence where the finances of the organisation being taken over are examined in detail. Nick Higgs obviously used the bullsh*t baffles brains technique so that Wael didn’t bother to check the detail 

I'm not certain but, I think he was even more clever when he sold his shares in Cowlin's, to Balfour Beatty for an increased value, because, Cowlin's had the contract to redevelop the Rugby Ground and appeared a good acquisition. Only for the club he also had shares in (which were given to him) to then cancel the redevelopment, in favour of the UWE.  Or perhaps he was just lucky.

[pongo88]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Hasn't he mortgaged that to the hilt though? That asset is surely worth less and less with each additional interest payment.

This is where the whole situation is a bit odd. The mortgage / loan, whatever, used to buy Rovers came from himself and / or the family. The interest payments seem to be going back to himself / the family via Dwane Sports, or possibly used to cover some of the  losses. (Perhaps someone else could give a more accurate summary). He hasn’t got the option of putting Rovers into administration to clear the debt as then it is the creditors who lose money and he / his family are the main creditors. But, as you say, with each interest payment it gets worse and he moves into negative equity  - i e the value of the asset is less than the total loan 

[Rich]

1 minute ago, pongo88 said:

This is where the whole situation is a bit odd. The mortgage / loan, whatever, used to buy Rovers came from himself and / or the family. The interest payments seem to be going back to himself / the family via Dwane Sports, or possibly used to cover some of the  losses. (Perhaps someone else could give a more accurate summary). He hasn’t got the option of putting Rovers into administration to clear the debt as then it is the creditors who lose money and he / his family are the main creditors. But, as you say, with each interest payment it gets worse and he moves into negative equity  - i e the value of the asset is less than the total loan 

As he /family own the asset, all they'd have to do is sell it to repay the debt to themselves. As they are the only creditor, it only affects them. So administration is their get out clause (if need be), and their hands are tied, they have to sell. Or that's what they will/could say.

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

This is where the whole situation is a bit odd. The mortgage / loan, whatever, used to buy Rovers came from himself and / or the family. The interest payments seem to be going back to himself / the family via Dwane Sports, or possibly used to cover some of the  losses. (Perhaps someone else could give a more accurate summary). He hasn’t got the option of putting Rovers into administration to clear the debt as then it is the creditors who lose money and he / his family are the main creditors. But, as you say, with each interest payment it gets worse and he moves into negative equity  - i e the value of the asset is less than the total loan 

Isn`t that why he put that charge against the mem though - so he becomes the preferred creditor in the event of liquidation?

[Fiale]

5 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

This is where the whole situation is a bit odd. The mortgage / loan, whatever, used to buy Rovers came from himself and / or the family. The interest payments seem to be going back to himself / the family via Dwane Sports, or possibly used to cover some of the  losses. (Perhaps someone else could give a more accurate summary). He hasn’t got the option of putting Rovers into administration to clear the debt as then it is the creditors who lose money and he / his family are the main creditors. But, as you say, with each interest payment it gets worse and he moves into negative equity  - i e the value of the asset is less than the total loan 

 

But have they really put any money into the club ? They paid some of the previous stakeholders Higgs etc - but how much ? Higgs was about to lose everything as all lines of credit had been used up to the point they needed Wonga loans. They may have got the club for very little. The outlay has been, well contracts and they are obviously paid over the length of the contract e.g. Darrell over 5 years, all the new staff etc being paid monthly. We know they had their season tickets cash injected at the beginning  of the season, so how much money have they actually put in ? The land at the colony was cheap and probably worth more than they paid (maybe why it's been put into a separate company so they can keep it if the club goes under). But other than consultants, legal costs they cannot have spend much. The disabled "Stand" was paid for by supporters, I cannot see what they have actually bought/paid for/invested other than the Europa league ready sprinklers.

[CrazyInWeston]

I'm not gas, infact even though I do hate them, you lot sure do talk about them dontcha? **** me 26,890 posts!! (including this one) Surely an OTIB record.

Amazes me that I can remember when this was page 1, only 2yrs ago. Why so obsessed folks?

They are lower than us, have a circus tent stadium, bizarre fans with 6 fingers on each hand that seem to think they are barca.... We should be washing our hands off these scumbags already and start thinking of out next rivals....  the Cardiff munters!