Press Conference Today...

[ExiledAjax]

4 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

Suppose the other factor

The other potentially misleading aspect of this is the Championship experience (or lack of) with some of our younger players. A player can be young and have decent experience at this level (e.g. Dasilva). For many of our younger players this isn't the case.

Pring is 23 (so not THAT young by footballing standards), but is in his first ever season of Championship football. Tanner, Atkinson and Scott are also in their first season at this level. Bakinson came into the season having played 2054 mins in the league in 20/21 - approx 23 matches worth of Championship experience.

It's very plausible that all 5 of those players could be starting a game for us - that's half our outfield players with little/no experience at this level prior to this season.

When Bentley talks of us being "A young squad on a learning curve", perhaps this is part of what he means. 

Agreed, and that's why I asked Fevs for some minutes played stuff. Worth noting as well that the four guys you mention - Pring, Atkinson, Scott and Tanner -  are all 23 or under, and in their first season of Champ football. So that's our first choice RB, first choice CB, plus two who are regularly in the match day 18, and start often enough. 4 of the 18 - about 20% of the match day squad, are simultaneously young and inexperienced at this level. 

[brady bunch]

1 hour ago, RedM said:

they still sometimes look like they don’t know each other at all.

That's what I said to my sons when we watched them play Barnsley, they often look like one of those teams who turn up for a charity match, with decent enough players, but not aware of how each other play and their team-mates strengths and weaknesses.

its a bit bizarre really and maybe understandable in the old days with tombola team selection and a huge sqaud, but neither of those apply now, yet they still appear total strangers at times.

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Pring, Atkinson, Scott and Tanner -  are all 23 or under, and in their first season of Champ football. So that's our first choice RB, first choice CB, plus two who are regularly in the match day 18, and start often enough. 4 of the 18 - about 20% of the match day squad, are simultaneously young and inexperienced at this level. 

That’s just what SL wants - a squad made up of a mix of youngsters and experienced players. That was certainly part of LJs remit.

Seems as if Nige is doing the same.

[Wiltshire robin]

1 hour ago, Hampshire reds said:

negative bore off. i assume you mean me :laugh:. Get real the manager is hardly positive is he or is he. i unfortunately was at St Andrews not sure if you were Dynamite red but i have every right to be negative having spent money getting to and watching what was total crap. But if you are happy with what you are watching then thats fine. good on you.

You have every right to say your opinion just like any other fan but the simple fact is whoever is in charge for the upcoming time period is gonna have a time . I’m still confident that if Pearson stays for his contract we will vastly improve .

[maxjak]

I believe Bournemouth have had the youngest regular line up in the Championship this season...........they are obviously expensive high quality footballers, but shows it's about ability rather than age?

[GrahamC]

3 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I believe Bournemouth have had the youngest regular line up in the Championship this season...........they are obviously expensive high quality footballers, but shows it's about ability rather than age?

They paid us £15m for one of those, Solanke was £20m, so perhaps it shows it’s about cash?

[maxjak]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

They paid us £15m for one of those, Solanke was £20m, so perhaps it shows it’s about cash?

Yep........age is no barrier if you have the ability to perform consistently at a high level.........which is why i said expensive ?      What ever happened to that 15 Mill..Ha!

Edited November 4, 2021 by maxjak

[Rob k]

44 minutes ago, Hampshire reds said:

considering we are both 55 i think she will love been called a bird. next time i go to hospital to visit her i will pass that comment on. 

I hope your wife is ok HR

[Robbored]

12 minutes ago, Lucan said:

Sure, but thats just common sense.  

My point was that has Nige been forced to play youngsters because of the injury list (as he was last season) or because it’s a part of his remit as it was with LJ.

Both probably.

[Kodjias Wrist]

4 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I certainly agree with Pearson about Bakinson. I don't know if he is now fitter or maybe just worked on his defensive game in training. But for 60 minutes he was very impressive.

Obviously some great bits of play in possession which we know he can do. But also defending some examples of him tracking runners well. Blocked a shot well too. Brings height to the midfield as he wins headers, particularly against Barnsley where we won quite a few in that crowded part of the pitch.

Very promising. Hope he can build on that. Was a bit worried Nige might look to move him on. Who knows he still might, but Tyreeq has real quality that is worth keeping here imo. The defensive stuff is probably quite basic for some but its the one thing he has to improve on, and it looks like he is. So could be like a new signing if he becomes one we can trust to play regularly from the start. 

Obviously after James went off everything changed and need him to be back as soon as possible.

It's still very early to get too carried away by Bakinson of course, but it is a positive. Not like there's too many of them at the moment!

He was getting slagged off on here most of the match. I didn't watch so can't comnent but good if he does improve, we need him to.

[ExiledAjax]

42 minutes ago, Robbored said:

That’s just what SL wants - a squad made up of a mix of youngsters and experienced players. That was certainly part of LJs remit.

Seems as if Nige is doing the same.

For the purposes of discussion let's assume that this is correct. That there is a formal order from SL that the squad must contain a 'mix' of youngsters and experienced players, and that Pearson is being a good boy in implementing that. If true, then for me that brings up a few points:

• We can't blame errors, poor form or bad results on having youngsters in the team. If it's an order from the powers that be, then we have to live with it, and accept that we are going to get inconsistent performances as those young guys learn on the job.
• We have to readjust our definition of 'success' accordingly, to account for the quantity and quality of the younger players.
• We have to constantly assess whether the balance of youth and experience is correct. That includes Lansdown constantly assessing whether his order remains appropriate, and whether the balance is sufficient in order to deliver the results and level of success that he demands.

If the balance is out of whack, if it starts to shift too much one way or the other, then (within the constraints imposed by finances, injuries and suspensions) action has to be taken.

Every team will have a range of ages and experience levels. My opinion is that we began this season with too many players at either ends of the spectrum, and too few in the ideal goldilocks range. I understand that players in their prime, who are also talented, are expensive to buy and pay, and attract high value offers if we already own them. 

12 minutes ago, Robbored said:

My point was that has Nige been forced to play youngsters because of the injury list (as he was last season) or because it’s a part of his remit as it was with LJ.

Is it the injuries? All 5 players aged 25 - 29 are fit to play as it stands (although two are goalkeepers so we can only ever play 4 of the 5 at any one time). The injuries are mostly in the older or younger players, those aged 30+ or 24-. It's not the injuries, it's the lack of payers in their prime to start with. In our entire squad we have a single midfielder currently aged between 25 - 29. That's COD. On top of that King and James are the only midfielders older than him. So any injury to those two and unless you play COD then you're rolling out a midfield aged 24 and younger. That's just an unbalanced squad.

Edited November 4, 2021 by ExiledAjax

[exAtyeoMax]

9 minutes ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

He was getting slagged off on here most of the match. I didn't watch so can't comnent but good if he does improve, we need him to.

Not by everyone…I thought he played really well

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

We're a squad that has a very young element to it, plus a few 30+, and not too many in the prime ages of 26 - 29. So to an extent yes we are young, despite having James, King, Simpson etc on the books.

We have 7 players 30 or over (Weimann, James, Baker, Wells, Martin, King and Simpson). Interesting that all 3 of our main forward line are 30+.

We have 3 aged 26 - 29 (COD, Bentley and Kalas).

O'Leary is 25.

The rest of the squad is then aged 24 or under, some 13 players.

You can argue about age just being a number, there's a discussion over what exactly constitutes "young", and of course the old adage that if you're good enough you're old enough comes into play.

However, I think it is fair to say that overall we have a "young" squad that is bloated at either end of the age spectrum, with very few in the prime years. It was something I worried about in the summer, too may older and younger players, the older relying on younger bodies, and the younger relying on older minds, but too few that enjoy having both legs and mental fortitude.

@Davefevs, can you perhaps furnish some minutes played data to supplement the above. How many minutes are seeing played by the different age brackets?

 

54 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Agreed, and that's why I asked Fevs for some minutes played stuff. Worth noting as well that the four guys you mention - Pring, Atkinson, Scott and Tanner -  are all 23 or under, and in their first season of Champ football. So that's our first choice RB, first choice CB, plus two who are regularly in the match day 18, and start often enough. 4 of the 18 - about 20% of the match day squad, are simultaneously young and inexperienced at this level. 

Give me chance!

Its almost like you knew I had a chart with the data in!

Heres the player by player view.

 

[Simon bristol]

16 minutes ago, maxjak said:

Yep........age is no barrier if you have the ability to perform consistently at a high level.........which is why i said expensive ?      What ever happened to that 15 Mill..Ha!

We went straight to chelsea and signed kalas palmer and Dasilva with it!

[Davefevs]

Basically one outfield player in the squad (Kalas) in the 24-28 sweet spot playing lots of minutes.

[ExiledAjax]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Give me chance!

Its almost like you knew I had a chart with the data in!

Heres the player by player view.

 

I assumed you were still in your sick bunker! Sorry, didn't want to nag.

So yep, those charts show exactly what I expected, big peaks in playing minutes at ages 23 and 30. In the prime years it is desolate other than Kalas and Bentley giving a big peak at 28.

Look at the strike force - 32, 31, 30, two 21 year old's and a 19 year old boy. Going into a season like that, and expecting success, is borderline delusional imo.

I repeat my point on the midfield as well. Two old heads, a hit and miss winger aged 25, and then a group of guys 24 and younger. Yes some, like Williams, have over 100 appearances at champ level, but I wonder (just wondering, don't go off and spend hours finding out just for me) how in how many of those 100+ apps he was the senior midfielder when playing for Barnsley, Bolton and Wigan at the ages of 20 - 22?

In my opinion that is unbalanced, and was so before anyone got injured.

In the summer we saw 3 players in their prime years leave. Nagy (26 IIRC), Diedhiou (28), and Paterson (29) They were essentially replaced with James, King, and the re-signing of Weimann. So that's 3 out in their prime (all for free - or did we get a small fee for Nagy? - I might add) and 3 replacements aged 30+. I understand we are struggling with money and I'm not saying "why didn't we sign a 27 year old 15-goal striker for £10m". I am more pointing out that over several years of transfers we pruned ourselves of the long term core of a first team.

[Davefevs]

As for todays club press conference.

I actually think it’s one of the first times he’s really talked to Dave Barton about tactics, albeit it at a basic level.  I sense frustration in answering Dave’s football questions / assumptions in the same way as Gregor’s, e.g. don’t tell me what you think if you’re trying to frame a question to ask what I think, just ask me the question.

Today we got some things I’ve been hoping to hear for a while.

1. “We don’t work hard enough to stop crosses” - I particularly took the emphasis on the bit in bold, it’s clear we allow crosses, but here he’s really saying the instruction is to stop them, and we need to work harder to do so, e.g. we are passive.

2. “We didn’t effect the quality of the ball into their two forwards” - I’ve said this countless times against direct sides, you have to pressure the delivery as the first priority.

3. “We had possession and we had chance to get the ball up the pitch (their first goal)” - this less thought provoking, but sense that the ball into Wells aerially against Roberts stemmed from a pass back to Atkinson who had to clear under pressure.  I think the pass was from Dasilva.

 

 

Footnote:  just watched the cross from Graham, 20 seconds before their goal.  Bentley gets a glove on it and perhaps that is why the attacker couldn’t direct it into the goal.  Earlier this season I said we conceded chances in batches, e.g. couldn’t take the sting out our opponents.  Another example of where we need to calm things down to avoid multiple chances.

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I assumed you were still in your sick bunker! Sorry, didn't want to nag.

So yep, those charts show exactly what I expected, big peaks in playing minutes at ages 23 and 30. In the prime years it is desolate other than Kalas and Bentley giving a big peak at 28.

Look at the strike force - 32, 31, 30, two 21 year old's and a 19 year old boy. Going into a season like that, and expecting success, is borderline delusional imo.

I repeat my point on the midfield as well. Two old heads, a hit and miss winger aged 25, and then a group of guys 24 and younger. Yes some, like Williams, have over 100 appearances at champ level, but I wonder (just wondering, don't go off and spend hours finding out just for me) how in how many of those 100+ apps he was the senior midfielder when playing for Barnsley, Bolton and Wigan at the ages of 20 - 22?

In my opinion that is unbalanced, and was so before anyone got injured.

In the summer we saw 3 players in their prime years leave. Nagy (26 IIRC), Diedhiou (28), and Paterson (29) They were essentially replaced with James, King, and the re-signing of Weimann. So that's 3 out in their prime (all for free - or did we get a small fee for Nagy? - I might add) and 3 replacements aged 30+. I understand we are struggling with money and I'm not saying "why didn't we sign a 27 year old 15-goal striker for £10m". I am more pointing out that over several years of transfers we pruned ourselves of the long term core of a first team.

Picking a couple of random matches for each club each season….he was the junior partner / three in each match.

Re ages, it’s why I wasn’t against Pigott (27) or Charles (25/26) as a short to mid term striker signing.

 

Nagy was free.

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, bris red said:

Ive tried to tolerate you but i just canny anymore. Onto the block list you go..!

 

2 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Another one completely blind to the overall problem . I agree with the poster above . On the ignore list you go. 

I was wondering why I couldn't see Hampshire reds posts! Obviously I got bored a while before you two. Welcome to the club.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Picking a couple of random matches for each club each season….he was the junior partner / three in each match.

Re ages, it’s why I wasn’t against Pigott (27) or Charles (25/26) as a short to mid term striker signing.

Nagy was free.

Cheers, interesting on Williams, and as I suspected.

Yeh I liked the look of Pigott.

The unbalanced age of the squad is ultimately a symptom of mismanaged and poorly planned transfers over a number of years. Covid finances hitting when they did have then exacerbated that as it's prevented us from replacing what we lost.

We are where we are.

I hate it but I am expecting more of the same v Cov. Are we going to do much different to the past few games? I want to believe we will, but that NP interview suggests that injuries etc will prevent that until after the break.

Right now I think we are in a spot where we simply:

• Exercise damage limitation on Saturday. Call that tinpot, small mentality etc, whatever, but if we do anything else I suspect we take a beating;
• Then regroup over the break. get players back fit, reassess what went well at the start of the season, and plan our approach until the end of the year; and
• Come back to a potentially lucrative run of games. There are points to be won against Blackburn, Stoke, Sheff Utd, Derby, Hull and Huddersfield. By the time we get to them we need to be clear on our plan, and be confident in executing it.

All far simpler to say than do of course, but this is where we are.

[Kid in the Riot]

16 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As for todays club press conference.

I actually think it’s one of the first times he’s really talked to Dave Barton about tactics, albeit it at a basic level.  I sense frustration in answering Dave’s football questions / assumptions in the same way as Gregor’s, e.g. don’t tell me what you think if you’re trying to frame a question to ask what I think, just ask me the question.

Today we got some things I’ve been hoping to hear for a while.

1. “We don’t work hard enough to stop crosses” - I particularly took the emphasis on the bit in bold, it’s clear we allow crosses, but here he’s really saying the instruction is to stop them, and we need to work harder to do so, e.g. we are passive.

2. “We didn’t effect the quality of the ball into their two forwards” - I’ve said this countless times against direct sides, you have to pressure the delivery as the first priority.

3. “We had possession and we had chance to get the ball up the pitch (their first goal)” - this less thought provoking, but sense that the ball into Wells aerially against Roberts stemmed from a pass back to Atkinson who had to clear under pressure.  I think the pass was from Dasilva.

Footnote:  just watched the cross from Graham, 20 seconds before their goal.  Bentley gets a glove on it and perhaps that is why the attacker couldn’t direct it into the goal.  Earlier this season I said we conceded chances in batches, e.g. couldn’t take the sting out our opponents.  Another example of where we need to calm things down to avoid multiple chances.

That interview, along with Tuesday's post-match one, do not fill me with confidence I have to say. He looks more downbeat than we've ever seen him before. 

Looks and talks like somebody that has come to terms with the fact they aren't going to be able to get a tune out of these players, until post international break when a few players should be back in contention, and ultimately the next two transfer windows.

His comment on Tuesday "I've got my own thoughts on where this squad is" was revealing enough...

[Sleepy1968]

54 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I certainly agree with Pearson about Bakinson. I don't know if he is now fitter or maybe just worked on his defensive game in training. But for 60 minutes he was very impressive.

Obviously some great bits of play in possession which we know he can do. But also defending some examples of him tracking runners well. Blocked a shot well too. Brings height to the midfield as he wins headers, particularly against Barnsley where we won quite a few in that crowded part of the pitch.

Very promising. Hope he can build on that. Was a bit worried Nige might look to move him on. Who knows he still might, but Tyreeq has real quality that is worth keeping here imo. The defensive stuff is probably quite basic for some but its the one thing he has to improve on, and it looks like he is. So could be like a new signing if he becomes one we can trust to play regularly from the start. 

Obviously after James went off everything changed and need him to be back as soon as possible.

It's still very early to get too carried away by Bakinson of course, but it is a positive. Not like there's too many of them at the moment!

I thought Bakinson did most of our good things on Tuesday. Attacking wise I think he'd look really good in a decent side. Defensively, err .... After 60 minutes, ... err. Ty, get your shooting boots on for Saturday. If not you then who? (I know, no-one.)

[GrahamC]

23 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

That interview, along with Tuesday's post-match one, do not fill me with confidence I have to say. He looks more downbeat than we've ever seen him before. 

Looks and talks like somebody that has come to terms with the fact they aren't going to be able to get a tune out of these players, until post international break when a few players should be back in contention, and ultimately the next two transfer windows.

His comment on Tuesday "I've got my own thoughts on where this squad is" was revealing enough...

Agree & it will be interesting to see what he does selection wise on Saturday seeing as Baker isn’t back & I take from this James is highly doubtful to be fit.

We either basically shuffle virtually all the same players again or try a couple of youngsters, but my hunch is seeing that the starting line up will probably include Tanner, Pring, HNM & Bakinson anyway, that he won’t want to risk too many more & he’s looking to change it around more once Baker, Williams & Semenyo are fit after the international break.

Edited November 4, 2021 by GrahamC

[Merrick's Marvels]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

3. “We had possession and we had chance to get the ball up the pitch (their first goal)” - this less thought provoking, but sense that the ball into Wells aerially against Roberts stemmed from a pass back to Atkinson who had to clear under pressure.  I think the pass was from Dasilva.

 

Last Saturday, Barnsley's goal came from our own throw in.

Pring (I think) goes backwards to Atkinson instead of up the line away from goal. Atkinson is in a tight spot, close to the touchline and under pressure, manages to do no more than punt the ball straight out of play - Barnsley now have a throw in from basically the same position we were in and, with a few simple touches, had opened us up and were in on goal.  

Yet again, we fail to do the absolute basics - execute a simple throw in! - and gift the opposition easy opportunities to score.

Beyond infuriating.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels

[Shuffle]

14 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

I thought Bakinson did most of our good things on Tuesday. Attacking wise I think he'd look really good in a decent side. Defensively, err .... After 60 minutes, ... err. Ty, get your shooting boots on for Saturday. If not you then who? (I know, no-one.)

We have such a low bar where Bakinson is concerned that when he has a reasonable half, some become all upbeat about his ability. Second half was the performances we are use to for Tyreeq & the booking was embarrassing as it showed up his complete lack of pace. I hope I’m wrong & I eat my words but for his height, does he dominant in the air ? I’d love to see him race Martin as it would be close. I don’t see him flying into tackles & to the opposite I’ve seen him pull out of challenges.  On the plus side he can pick a pass & looks to play forward but mobility is going to be his biggest challenge.

Personally, he would be no where near my starting 11 but appreciate options are low.

 

 

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

22 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Agree & it will be interesting to see what he does selection wise on Saturday seeing as Baker isn’t back & I take from this James is highly doubtful to be fit.

We either basically shuffle virtually all the same players again or try a couple of youngsters, but my hunch is seeing that the starting line up will probably include Tanner, Pring, HNM & Bakinson anyway, that he won’t want to risk too many more & he’s looking to change it around more once Baker, Williams & Semenyo are fit after the international break.

I think James is the big loss as that's his "enforcer" (for want of a better word) on the pitch gone. As Tues demonstrated, we fell apart without him. 

Unfortunately this squad has proven time and time again there is a lot of mental fragility imo. 

[Sir Geoff]

33 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Last Saturday, Barnsley's goal came from our own throw in.

Pring (I think) goes backwards to Atkinson instead of up the line away from goal. Atkinson is in a tight spot, close to the touchline and under pressure, manages to do no more than punt the ball straight out of play - Barnsley now have a throw in from basically the same position we were in and, with a few simple touches, had opened us up and were in on goal.  

Yet again, we fail to do the absolute basics - execute a simple throw in! - and gift the opposition easy opportunities to score.

Beyond infuriating.

Atkinson had time to turn inside and roll a simple pass back to Bentley thus retaining possession. Instead he sliced an upfield punt out for a cheap throw in about 10 yards up the pitch.

[Merrick's Marvels]

26 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Atkinson had time to turn inside and roll a simple pass back to Bentley thus retaining possession. Instead he sliced an upfield punt out for a cheap throw in about 10 yards up the pitch.

Yes, I was pitchside at the other end of the Lansdown so didn't have the best view of Atkinson's options. I was sure going 1-0 down was self-inflicted though - same as far too many other occasions.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Merrick's Marvels

[slartibartfast]

5 hours ago, DaveF said:

How so? What would you like him to do?

That is quite rich, coming from H R...........mr smile-a -while !

[Davefevs]

48 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I have wasted a lot of time watching both players, Pigott in particular!

I was never 100% on Pigott as there were things that I thought could have meant he would struggle at this level.

But wow what a touch he has and pass, his link up play a joy to watch at times for Wimbledon last season. Very classy and an intelligent player. I probably would have taken the punt on a free as a rotation option with Martin. 

So I have been very surprised to see him now being a sub at Ipswich! Thank god I am not a City scout recommending players. Best to leave it to the professionals 

This season a league one player I think is worth keeping an eye on is Camara of Plymouth. I guess we may need a midfielder next summer if King is released.

That doesn’t make him a bad player per se Jon, just a poor recruit by Ipswich.  Sign him on a free, then sign Bonne, then sign Chaplin, then go one up top, blah, blah, blah.  Notwithstanding Aluko and Fraser who can play as “forwards”.

I’m a bit like you, a decent punt for us….did little things that I thought were wasted at Wimbledon that maybe meant he might be suited to playing with better players.

3g / 1a in 442 mins this season.

Don’t knock yourself.  Our recruitment team over the years do this full-time, with all the football insight, video, data and live scouting you can shake a stick at, and look at what we’ve brought in.