Most of you wanted it....

[Oops]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Updated to date, after I posted it on a match thread a couple of games ago.....

 

Dean Holden (Numpty who should never have been appointed)

P36, W16, L17 PPG 1.42.

Nigel Pearson (the experienced manager that everyone wanted)
P32, W7, L18, PPG 0.875

Point scoring and whataboutery doesn’t make you a ******* expert.

You’re just another mug like the rest of us.

[Red_Alligator]

And some of us still do.

 "Let's get out there today and show the gaffer what we're made of".

And they duly obliged.

Change the Manager if you like (which none of us can). You can't polish a turd. 

Personally, if it were up to me, which it's not, I'd stick most of players in our squad on ebay this very evening. 

[Lew-T]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

If your first action after yet another last min defeat is to start a point scoring thread, it’s a bit of a strange thing to do really.

It’s not the first time.

@Bar BS3 loves waving his wang about.

[Bar BS3]

58 minutes ago, Andy082005 said:

Holden was shite 

Pearson has been even more shite 

Both would have took us down last season had we had another 5 games or so 

And I suppose that's my point. 

Holden wasn't up to it and Pearson is woefully worse..! 

My other point being people's perceptions of the 2 appointments. 

 

[054123]

I’ll make this point again after making it on another thread earlier in the week.

Most people are defending the situation not the actual person.

Its not a competition  between Johnson, Holden and Pearson, but you can compare the parameters and situations they have been asked to work.

Up until today it’s not that I cared about Pearson I just thought we were undergoing a rebuild process and therefor sacking the head of that after 2 months seemed odd.

Edited November 6, 2021 by 054123

[YGBjammy]

Seems like only days ago this forum was full of excitement for Pearson, and prior to that; crying out for Hughton.

Look at where both of them are now. Maybe that generation of managers are simply old-hat now. 

[I'm Sparti-Bob]

So question to @Bar BS3, did you want NP or not? 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, 054123 said:

I’ll make this point again after making it on another thread earlier in the week.

Most people are defending the situation not the actual person.

Its not a competition  between Johnson, Holden and Pearson, but you can compare the parameters and situations they have been asked to work.

Up until today it’s not that I cared about Pearson I just thought we were undergoing a rebuild process and therefor sacking the head of that after 2 months seemed odd.

Great post, exactly that. Thank you.

[ChippenhamRed]

I think maybe we all just need to have the humility to acknowledge that managerial appointments are ALWAYS something of a gamble - particularly for an average club like ours - and none of us really know how it’s going to work out.

Look at our track record on this forum:

- McInnes and SOD broadly popular choices at the time, but both failed.

- Cotterill broadly not wanted, but did really well.

- LJ broadly not wanted, but did OK.

- Holden unanimously not wanted - we got one right!

- Pearson overwhelming a positive appointment, very disappointing so far.

In fact, given the ultimate failure of so many different types of managers at City at this level - journeymen (Cotterill), young and modern (LJ), deep thinker (SOD), novice (Holden), proven (Pearson - so far)…it’s difficult not to conclude that there is a much more fundamental issue at our club. What makes us think yet another new manager is going to be the answer? I think the issue runs deeper even than Lansdown. Is it a long-standing culture of failure? A city so starved of sporting success it simply has no idea how to achieve it? I just don’t know any more.

Sorry, this post has become a stream of consciousness. But I really am left wondering what on earth is wrong with our club. I don’t have the answer. But I suspect it isn’t the manager. Either way, it’s depressing. And I wish I’d been born in Manchester.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Red_Alligator said:

And some of us still do.

 "Let's get out there today and show the gaffer what we're made of".

And they duly obliged.

Change the Manager if you like (which none of us can). You can't polish a turd. 

Personally, if it were up to me, which it's not, I'd stick most of players in our squad on ebay this very evening. 

What are we going to do with the resulting £20?

[Bar BS3]

16 minutes ago, I'm Sparti-Bob said:

So question to @Bar BS3, did you want NP or not? 

Yes. How wrong was I...! 

[Sweeneys Penalties]

If I recall right, we did a comparison that Bears had Pat Lam (a big name who was having a successful season with the Egg Chasers) and City fans thought we needed a big name too. It's all gone very badly wrong and tbh I'm a bit numb and I'm sat in my study with a laptop and a bottle of Jura. I keep thinking that if there was a simple solution we'd be on it. IMHO it's about desire....and there's a few on the pitch who simply dont have it. 

[Red_Alligator]

36 minutes ago, YGBjammy said:

Seems like only days ago this forum was full of excitement for Pearson, and prior to that; crying out for Hughton.

Look at where both of them are now. Maybe that generation of managers are simply old-hat now. 

Their generation seems to be doing quite well in the Premier League.

[Waffleflap]

2 hours ago, michaeloshea20@gmail said:

Every time the club upload a 'Robins Uncut' on YouTube I see fitness exercises, sprinting and 5 aside type matches.  At no point have I ever seen any actual coaching going on, defensive set pieces, defending corners, forwards running into channels etc etc. Just wondering if there is actually any coaching going on?

I dont think they will show stuff like that to the viewing public. I think they keep stuff like that in house 

[shelts]

The I told you so you thread!!

[lenred]

3 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Updated to date, after I posted it on a match thread a couple of games ago.....

 

Dean Holden (Numpty who should never have been appointed)

P36, W16, L17 PPG 1.42.

Nigel Pearson (the experienced manager that everyone wanted)
P32, W7, L18, PPG 0.875

As my boss would quite rightly say. Don’t come to me with problems, come to me with solutions. What’s yours? Always quick to slag it seems but what would you do about it?

[I'm Sparti-Bob]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yes. How wrong was I...! 

No different to the majority of us then. The title of this thread does come across as a bit 'told you so',  I just wondered. 

 

[cityfan]

If our defence is weak and we're worried about relegation, there is one man who always organises a defence and sorts teams out....

 

Cal in Sam Allardyce till the season end

Edited November 6, 2021 by cityfan

[Leveller]

3 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I think maybe we all just need to have the humility to acknowledge that managerial appointments are ALWAYS something of a gamble - particularly for an average club like ours - and none of us really know how it’s going to work out.

Look at our track record on this forum:

- McInnes and SOD broadly popular choices at the time, but both failed.

- Cotterill broadly not wanted, but did really well.

- LJ broadly not wanted, but did OK.

- Holden unanimously not wanted - we got one right!

- Pearson overwhelming a positive appointment, very disappointing so far.

In fact, given the ultimate failure of so many different types of managers at City at this level - journeymen (Cotterill), young and modern (LJ), deep thinker (SOD), novice (Holden), proven (Pearson - so far)…it’s difficult not to conclude that there is a much more fundamental issue at our club. What makes us think yet another new manager is going to be the answer? I think the issue runs deeper even than Lansdown. Is it a long-standing culture of failure? A city so starved of sporting success it simply has no idea how to achieve it? I just don’t know any more.

Sorry, this post has become a stream of consciousness. But I really am left wondering what on earth is wrong with our club. I don’t have the answer. But I suspect it isn’t the manager. Either way, it’s depressing. And I wish I’d been born in Manchester.

Your first point is spot on. And most of the people blaming Lansdown would probably have agreed with the unsuccessful appointments and disagreed with the successful ones. If I had two billion quid, I’d probably be no good at choosing football managers either. Let’s hope Mr Gould is better at it.

[Bar BS3]

2 hours ago, lenred said:

As my boss would quite rightly say. Don’t come to me with problems, come to me with solutions. What’s yours? Always quick to slag it seems but what would you do about it?

I'm not a highly paid, trained professional. 

Sadly, Pearson IS - yet he doesn't seem to know the answer. 

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, I'm Sparti-Bob said:

No different to the majority of us then. The title of this thread does come across as a bit 'told you so',  I just wondered. 

 

Why are you fixated on the thread title and not the apaulling stats comparison...? 

[Atticus]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh?

 

In this instance is it? Holden was a shambles of an appointment and we were a shambles under him.

Pearson has to go imo. The least I expected was for us to be harder to beat and have some fight. We show neither. These last minute goals have become expected, and an embarrassment and quite frankly pathetic. It shows a team with no confidence, no fight and no desire.

What I'd like in an ideal world is for half of these wage stealers to go with Pearson.

We really do need a rebuild. In terms of playing squad and manager/head coach

[BasSavage88]

3 hours ago, shelts said:

The I told you so you thread!!

Nah that'll be mine. I'll bump it to the top when he's gone

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Atticus said:

What I'd like in an ideal world is for half of these wage stealers to go with Pearson.

We really do need a rebuild. In terms of playing squad and manager/head coach

In fairness that is what Pearson is trying to do….rebuild.  But contracts are contracts and the finances are shot!

[Red_Alligator]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

In fairness that is what Pearson is trying to do….rebuild.  But contracts are contracts and the finances are shot!

That's exactly it Dave. The bottom line is that due to financial knots the club has got itself tied in, only time (and i don't think that a few seasons is over stating the case) will allow expensive contracts to expire, players to be moved out, and therefore wiggle room for a squad rebuild made available.

FFP doesn't help of course. Long gone are the days when SL could have literally bought us into the top flight ( I daresay that a lot of people thought that's what he was going to do, which is understandable given his financial clout). 

The club needs to get much more savvy in it's recruitment if we are to move forward.

None of that changes whoever holds the very poisoned chalice that is the Manager's / Head Coach's job.

This is a very dark period for the club indeed, but it's made it's own mess.

Utterly heart breaking.

 

[BigAl&Toby]

14 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Bollocks..! 

He's the man who sends us out with no shape, no game plan & doesn't have a clue about our best starting 11, after 9 months! 

Bollocks back!

Who’s the ****** who appointed him. Or Holden. Or Johnson. Or Ashton. Or anyone else?

How many years and the ****** still keeps making “mistakes” and has absolutely no ******* clue about how to run a football club.

Then again perhaps that’s always been the plan……..

[BS4 on Tour...]

12 hours ago, I'm Sparti-Bob said:

So question to @Bar BS3, did you want NP or not? 

 

12 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Yes. How wrong was I...! 

So why did you choose the wording of the thread title to imply that it was most people, but not you, who wanted NP ?! 

“Most of you wanted it” dissolves yourself of any mis-judgement, whereas “Most of us wanted it” would have been a tad more accurate and honest ...

[Bar BS3]

1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 

So why did you choose the wording of the thread title to imply that it was most people, but not you, who wanted NP ?! 

“Most of you wanted it” dissolves yourself of any mis-judgement, whereas “Most of us wanted it” would have been a tad more accurate and honest ...

Yes, valid point - however I would temper that with saying that I wasn't one of those who was demanding that either LJ or Holden were sacked and replaced with a bigger name manager. 

I agreed that the time was up for both of them, but I wasn't calling for their heads and I wasn't clamouring for this big name manager - but Pearson was always one of my top of list choices should we go for one. 

The point being, that it goes to show that a bigger name doesn't guarantee anybody anything & Hughton & Pearson have proven that point, quite shockingly..! 

[Bar BS3]

9 hours ago, Atticus said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh?

 

In this instance is it? Holden was a shambles of an appointment and we were a shambles under him.

Holden certainly turned out to be a poor appointment - after an incredible start. 

However, both Hughton, at Forest, and Pearson here, have both turned out to do even worse, despite their big name reputations. 

I honestly don't know where we do/would go from here...! 

One thing is for sure though - we've never looked like we are going backwards and in utter free fall, as much as we are doing right now, under Pearson. 

The one thing I'd expect is the nouce to be able to get the basics right & be harder to beat - but it's the total opposite - getting worse game by game...! 

[Lack of Action Man]

Mixed feelings for me. I have no doubt that NP should be getting more out of the squad than this. 

However, even with the addition of King, James, Atkinson and Tanner, there’s still a core of players there that have been there under LJ, DH and NP who (for whatever reason) are just not up to the level required:
-Dasilva
-Bakinson
-Palmer
-Vyner
-Pring
-Baker (horrendous injury record)
-Williams (ditto)

For me, we were absolutely reckless with spending under MA and LJ, resulting in a scatter gun approach to signings - very few of which went on to make money or enhance the squad (Engvall - wtf was that all about?!). Now we are stuck in the mud by FFP, unable to recruit anyone to sort this dross out.

Blame for the situation goes all the way to the top (SL) for me. However I will concede that NP is proving hugely disappointing.

Our current plight also stinks of the end of SC’s tenure. I remember him not using subs and also not fielding a full bench to stick two fingers up at SL for not backing him in the transfer market. That’s pretty much exactly what it feels like currently for me.