Vyner - scapegoated

[bexhill reds]

21 minutes ago, TransferForum said:

Bit of an outsider view here. Zak is a great lad and imho is a solid Championship player. People on here judging him on on unrealistic Premier League aspirations 

I don’t think anyone is questioning Zak’s personality, he comes across as pleasant and intelligent when interviewed, but invariably being at fault for at least one goal a game every time he plays does not make him a solid championship player, and that ultimately is what he has to be judged on.

[Simon79]

44 minutes ago, nickolas said:

Not sure its to do with desire. Hes simply not good enough!

I posted the other day about playing him in cm, in order to keep him as far away as possible from not marking his man while playing at cb, and then i see Swansea’s first goal today!! . 
Just because hes academy it doesnt mean hes good enough or should be given any more time than anyone else. 
Time to get rid. 

I’ve only briefly seen the goals, but to me it looks like just before the first goal, Vyner tells DaSilva to pick up the goalscorer. To me, it’s a communication fault, something that’s been mentioned before. Yes, maybe he was on his heels a bit, but not on his own. COYR 

[TransferForum]

15 minutes ago, bexhill reds said:

I don’t think anyone is questioning Zak’s personality, he comes across as pleasant and intelligent when interviewed, but invariably being at fault for at least one goal a game every time he plays does not make him a solid championship player, and that ultimately is what he has to be judged on.

Yeh you’re right maybe solid Championship player was incorrect. I think my point is that he’s on a par with where the team is.

Edited February 13, 2022 by TransferForum

[TransferForum]

Just now, TransferForum said:

 

 

33 minutes ago, Mr Hankey said:

Hi Zak’s dad

Not Zak’s Dad but I do know them both. Got a decent understanding or at least viewpoint of what it takes to be a pro footballer in the modern game

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, TransferForum said:

 

Not Zak’s Dad but I do know them both. Got a decent understanding or at least viewpoint of what it takes to be a pro footballer in the modern game

 

No offence to you, but it makes it very hard to be objective if you know the family socially.

No one is criticising Zak as a person and as a player he has lots of qualities.  I'd just rather we had other options in our back line. 

[TransferForum]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

No offence to you, but it makes it very hard to be objective if you know the family socially.

No one is criticising Zak as a person and as a player he has lots of qualities.  I'd just rather we had other options in our back line. 

No offence taken. I don’t know them socially. My Son came through  the Academy with Zak. My comment was from an objective view of where City as a team is.

Edited February 13, 2022 by TransferForum

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, TransferForum said:

No offence taken. I don’t know them socially. My Son came through  the Academy with Zak. My comment was from an objective view of where City as a team is.

Don’t tell ‘em your name Pike

[RobintheRed Red]

On 29/01/2022 at 21:39, Fordy62 said:

Have you watched the replay? Definitely not good enough. 

Took his eye of his man which he tends to do a lot .

[The Swan and Cemetery]

1 hour ago, Simon79 said:

I’ve only briefly seen the goals, but to me it looks like just before the first goal, Vyner tells DaSilva to pick up the goalscorer. To me, it’s a communication fault, something that’s been mentioned before. Yes, maybe he was on his heels a bit, but not on his own. COYR 

Agree, think Zak thought he’d passed him on to Jay and was then unable to react quickly enough. Personally thought their first was much more Jay’s fault, as rooted to the spot despite the player being in his vision and Zak at least indicating it was his (Jay’s) man. For their third Zak made a pretty weak challenge, but wasn’t alone in being poor on that one either. Overall don’t think Zak is what we’d be after with lots of cash and upward ambition, but does tend to be default for blame, despite often a fair number of others not covering themselves in glory. Think there’s a player in there, but not at CB and probably not with us now, as think he’ll struggle to win over fans. 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, Simon79 said:

I’ve only briefly seen the goals, but to me it looks like just before the first goal, Vyner tells DaSilva to pick up the goalscorer. To me, it’s a communication fault, something that’s been mentioned before. Yes, maybe he was on his heels a bit, but not on his own. COYR 

Vyner was also at fault for the third goal. 

[Monkeh]

If atkinson and Baker were fit vyner wouldn't even be in the squad,

He's been at fault for close to 18 goals this season, he isnt even conference standard 

[redapple]

Zac Vyner’s issues appear to be with his confidence. As a player I was similar ( in other sports as well). A coach might be able to help with this or they could make it worse. At a professional level it might be  an idea to take him out of the firing line for a while but to sustain a successful career it’s something he needs to deal with. 

[Robbored]

29 minutes ago, redapple said:

Zac Vyner’s issues appear to be with his confidence. A coach might be able to help with this or they could make it worse. At a professional level it might be  an idea to take him out of the firing line for a while but to sustain a successful career it’s something he needs to deal with. 

Anyone remember Nyatanga? He completely lost his confidence over just a few games and eventually moved on.

As for leaving Vyner out - unfortunately the CB cupboard is bare with only the very inexperienced Cundy at Championship level available. That said Nige might feel that he has no other choice if he’s lost faith ZV.

[KegCity]

13 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Simple isn’t it?  He just isn’t interested.  Do you really think that someone who has come up through the ranks with City has no desire?  Better players than we have would struggle in defense for us at the moment, and it’s the managers job to work it out (particularly a manager who was himself a defender).  

Sorry, but by that logic every single footballer in the pro game has enough desire as they made it through an academy and earned a contract? That's simply not true. Once Vyner gets beat he spends half the time jogging back watching the team concede, or gets caught napping when marking a player. 

[LondonBristolian]

18 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Sorry, but by that logic every single footballer in the pro game has enough desire as they made it through an academy and earned a contract? That's simply not true. Once Vyner gets beat he spends half the time jogging back watching the team concede, or gets caught napping when marking a player. 

@redapplehas said this above but my suspicion is you are describing a lack of confidence rather than a lack of desire.

I think it is easy to see this in Vyner in that he has had a few games this season where he has not put a foot wrong but, when he does make mistakes, more mistakes tend to quickly follow.

Problem is - whilst I feel for him - he is either going to have to find a way through this or settle for a career at a level below this one.

Reading between the lines of interviews, I get the impression Pearson knows confidence is an issue for Zak and has tried more than one approach but ultimately it is something only the player themselves can ultimately navigate. Realistically Vyner is probably running out of time.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

If atkinson and Baker were fit vyner wouldn't even be in the squad,

He's been at fault for close to 18 goals this season, he isnt even conference standard 

Clearly you know a lot more than Pearson then.  Isn’t even conference standard, what utter garbage.

[Not Banksy]

12 hours ago, TransferForum said:

Bit of an outsider view here. Zak is a great lad and imho is a solid Championship player. People on here judging him on on unrealistic Premier League aspirations 

No yesterday he seemed to be targeted by Swansea... If people are running at him he never looks like being able to stop them and on the ball he made silly choices and misplaced passes... thing there's a reason people are losing patience with him.

[tin]

To put another angle on this, have we ever heard of even one rumour about a bigger or comparable club being interested in signing Vyner? Not once, and I bet in the unlikely event any of us were to chat to a scout who’d watched him, the same failings would crop up. 

Nothing against the lad at all, but as a CB at this level he’s a serial ball-watcher who’s passive and far too casual. That’s not good enough and he’s shown no improvement in those aspects of his game under three managers here, plus Paul Warne at Rotherham. 

[Carey 6]

I don't think he's awful. Seems to play far worse away from home. 

Trouble is when he makes a mistake it's often a costly one. 

As a few have mentioned, he's probably a squad player for a lower end champ side, not one that should be starting every week. I don't think we'll see him for a while anyway after NP comments yesterday, perhaps for the best because the fans are really starting to get on his back like they did with Fontaine back in the day.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

@redapplehas said this above but my suspicion is you are describing a lack of confidence rather than a lack of desire.

I think it is easy to see this in Vyner in that he has had a few games this season where he has not put a foot wrong but, when he does make mistakes, more mistakes tend to quickly follow.

Problem is - whilst I feel for him - he is either going to have to find a way through this or settle for a career at a level below this one.

Reading between the lines of interviews, I get the impression Pearson knows confidence is an issue for Zak and has tried more than one approach but ultimately it is something only the player themselves can ultimately navigate. Realistically Vyner is probably running out of time.

Good post. 

I like Zak & have defended him on here but do think the last sentence is spot on.

He was very good against Reading but yesterday was one where he struggled, though he certainly was not alone & I think both Dasilva & to some extent Pring are under the microscope as well.

Unless we have injuries in midweek I don’t expect him to start v Boro & depending on how soon Tanner is available (he can’t be far away now) he might not be the only one to drop out.

[KegCity]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

@redapplehas said this above but my suspicion is you are describing a lack of confidence rather than a lack of desire.

I think it is easy to see this in Vyner in that he has had a few games this season where he has not put a foot wrong but, when he does make mistakes, more mistakes tend to quickly follow.

Problem is - whilst I feel for him - he is either going to have to find a way through this or settle for a career at a level below this one.

Reading between the lines of interviews, I get the impression Pearson knows confidence is an issue for Zak and has tried more than one approach but ultimately it is something only the player themselves can ultimately navigate. Realistically Vyner is probably running out of time.

How would confidence effect someone's ability to run? To not fall asleep with marking? Him getting bullied in the air can be attributed to a lack of confidence, but a lot of his faults are down to either a lack of awareness or a lack of desire. Either way, it's not good enough.

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, tin said:

To put another angle on this, have we ever heard of even one rumour about a bigger or comparable club being interested in signing Vyner? Not once, and I bet in the unlikely event any of us were to chat to a scout who’d watched him, the same failings would crop up. 

Nothing against the lad at all, but as a CB at this level he’s a serial ball-watcher who’s passive and far too casual. That’s not good enough and he’s shown no improvement in those aspects of his game under three managers here, plus Paul Warne at Rotherham. 

Warne played him RB, and in fairness he did get better over the season.

With what we can all see our weaknesses at CB, that’s why I was advocating RB this season.  I actually think he was fine there.  But a switch to a back 3 has meant he’s had to play RCB again.  Nige said a few weeks ago that Zak needs to be a defender first, to me it appears clear he’s tried to work on that with him, but maybe yesterday was the final straw.

47 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

I don't think he's awful. Seems to play far worse away from home. 

Trouble is when he makes a mistake it's often a costly one. 

As a few have mentioned, he's probably a squad player for a lower end champ side, not one that should be starting every week. I don't think we'll see him for a while anyway after NP comments yesterday, perhaps for the best because the fans are really starting to get on his back like they did with Fontaine back in the day.

Yep, that’s how I see it.  I guess as you approach 25 you either ought to have become more than a squad player or find a club where you can be a regular.  It’s no disgrace to have got as far as he has, and played 100+ games at this level.  But I think the rest of his career is gonna be defined in the next month or so.

15 minutes ago, KegCity said:

How would confidence effect someone's ability to run? To not fall asleep with marking? Him getting bullied in the air can be attributed to a lack of confidence, but a lot of his faults are down to either a lack of awareness or a lack of desire. Either way, it's not good enough.

I see it more as concentration than confidence - hence why I think we took a wrong turn into the world of motivation.  Concentration avoids you have to react.  Some of it could be physical tiredness leading to mental fatigue?  It could be sheer volume of pressure-made decisions finally taking their toll?

Lets hope he works through it with Nige and Curtis’s help.

[LondonBristolian]

52 minutes ago, KegCity said:

How would confidence effect someone's ability to run? To not fall asleep with marking? Him getting bullied in the air can be attributed to a lack of confidence, but a lot of his faults are down to either a lack of awareness or a lack of desire. Either way, it's not good enough.

That's actually the best answer to your question. If you're not confident, you get stuck in your own heard rather than focusing on what's happening on the pitch.