Pearson’s Not Happy!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

5 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

That's an interesting take, and a good discussion point I think.

My impression was that lots of fans appreciated that approach. We've felt like we've had too many "passengers" as players for years, and many appreciated the candidness about how that was handled. 

I don't think it was a big error of judgement necessarily as I don't think we'll make much on Bakinson regardless and perhaps was worth it in terms of setting expectations for the squad. 

If the squad don't already know what Nige's expectations are after 12 months then they are beyond help! In any event NP could have easily told them his thoughts on Bakinson at a team meeting.

If NP is to stay at BCFC but wants to move on 5 or 6 or 7 players then he really needs to strike a balance between telling the world they are "not good enough/cop outs" whilst making sure that someone will take them on at another club. Players are hardly likely to want to leave for a reduced wage whilst the club really does need some transfer income- it's not solely about reducing the wage bill . Our club is not in a position to subsidise new contracts at other clubs so presenting players as not worthy is not helpful- however true that may or may not be.

[spudski]

In the 14 minute segment that was deleted, was there comments along the line of NP not knowing what the Club stood for and what it's ' identity' was...still trying to work it out.

Or was that in another recent interview?

I know I heard it recently.

[SecretSam]

I would imagine right now Richard Gould is sitting down with JL and NP and sorting this out. Washing dirty laundry in public is not a good look. Imagine SL probably had a word as well. 

This season has been frustrating, for sure, but I think deep down, most of us expected it to be stop-start. There's been some positives and we can see a clear way forward, which we haven't in the past.

We need to stop thinking of ourselves as a "Top 6" team, we aren't even close just now.

[David Brent]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Apart from when they end up with Comic Sans font as a result of his designs 

 I had that in mind. Difficult to take but I can accept that if that’s all he’s getting involved in.

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

If the squad don't already know what Nige's expectations are after 12 months then they are beyond help! In any event NP could have easily told them his thoughts on Bakinson at a team meeting.

It's possible, if true, that Pearson thought actions would speak louder than words and wanted to make an example of Bakinson. I'm sure players hear about managers' 'expectations' constantly, but perhaps to see it being acted on would be more powerful. 

1 minute ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

If NP is to stay at BCFC but wants to move on 5 or 6 or 7 players then he really needs to strike a balance between telling the world they are "not good enough/cop outs" whilst making sure that someone will take them on at another club. Players are hardly likely to want to leave for a reduced wage whilst the club really does need some transfer income- it's not solely about reducing the wage bill . Our club is not in a position to subsidise new contracts at other clubs so presenting players as not worthy is not helpful- however true that may or may not be.

Yes I agree. I think that the Bakinson incident will probably prove to be an isolated one though. 

 

[Ivorguy]

If NP is still seething when he selects the team then we may expect a similar reaction to that of Cotterill when he saw through the shambles at Ashton Gate.  He refused to fill the bench.  Nige’s response maybe to name a tranch of untried youngsters on the bench and in the team.  We’ll see.

To repeat myself from years back, we need a full audit of the club; whilst I recognise that the Lansdowns don’t favour criticism of any sort.  As they say it is our club.  They simply don’t get Bristol City, and never have. I cite Bristol Sport and SL’s latest comment about bringing sport toBristol when sealing the advertising deal.

I am not very interested in anything other than Bristol City and would like to see aBoard totally focussed on that.  Thinking about it, I would just like to see a proper Board!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Ivorguy said:

If NP is still seething when he selects the team then we may expect a similar reaction to that of Cotterill when he saw through the shambles at Ashton Gate.  He refused to fill the bench.  Nige’s response maybe to name a tranch of untried youngsters on the bench and in the team.  We’ll see.

To repeat myself from years back, we need a full audit of the club; whilst I recognise that the Lansdowns don’t favour criticism of any sort.  As they say it is our club.  They simply don’t get Bristol City, and never have. I cite Bristol Sport and SL’s latest comment about bringing sport toBristol when sealing the advertising deal.

I am not very interested in anything other than Bristol City and would like to see aBoard totally focussed on that.  Thinking about it, I would just like to see a proper Board!

 

I know you've been saying this for years. How would this be done? I'm not aware that auditors for sports teams (the playing side) exist really. 

I imagine Pearson is essentially 'auditing' the club constantly. Most managers probably do to an extent, but as you say - our board don't seem to respond to criticism. 

[054123]

8 minutes ago, S_C said:

So, Jon Lansdown has made a throwaway comment regarding how we could be performing better in the league, something that Pearson has alluded to himself in regard to results, Pearson then feels the need to comment on the situation and suddenly it’s a feeding frenzy for how the heroic and visionary manager is biting back against the clueless owners.

Uh huh.

 

[lenred]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I know you've been saying this for years. How would this be done? I'm not aware that auditors for sports teams (the playing side) exist really. 

I imagine Pearson is essentially 'auditing' the club constantly. Most managers probably do to an extent, but as you say - our board don't seem to respond to criticism. 

Yep. This is as close to an independent audit as we are going to get. Let’s hope JL doesn’t get Daddy to take his ball away from NP because he doesn’t like the findings. 

[redseptember]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

For those on iPad / iPhone just switch to “reader view” for a cleaner / ad-free read.

 

You learn something on OTIB every day. Thanks for the tip. Like an idiot I’ve avoided the Post because it's virtually unreadable with all the ads. 

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I know you've been saying this for years. How would this be done? I'm not aware that auditors for sports teams (the playing side) exist really. 

I imagine Pearson is essentially 'auditing' the club constantly. Most managers probably do to an extent, but as you say - our board don't seem to respond to criticism. 

To be fair to @Ivorguy he has indeed been saying it for ages!

My take is this. Steve Lansdown, whatever we may think of him as an individual (met him a few times, decent enough chap), can surely, after 20+ years of running Bristol City, be judged on his record? That record suggests that SL is not in the least a 'football man'. He relies on deep pockets and a big ego to sustain him. The club is arguably no nearer returning to the top flight of English football than it was when he first showed up, when the challenge was considerably easier than it is today. After 20+ years in which many clubs with far greater challenges have made the step up, that's a pretty damning indictment. The rest is tittle tattle really, managers will come and go and at best we'll yo-yo between tiers 2 and 3 forever more under the Lansdowns. Maybe that's fine, it's better than going bust...but it's a future, like most of the recent past, devoid of glory and rather uninspiring. 

Whether it's a storm in a teacup or something more fundamental that James Piercy article is a massive improvement on comment on the club in recent years. Actually poses some difficult questions.

[Yellow&Blue&Red]

The way that Pearson blasted Bakinson was puzzling. As above, if he wants to get rid of him, I couldn't understand why he'd undermine his resale value.

One possibility that occurred to me was that Bakinson had been argumentative and / or undermining of other players or more likely someone on the coaching team and Pearson wanted to very publicly and forcefully give his backing to whoever had been on the receiving end of Bakinson's 'negative' behaviour. At the time he described Bakinson as 'sapping people's energy' (or something - can't remember the exact quote.

If that were the reason Pearson gave him both barrels as he shipped him out, then I think that could be well judged.

[054123]

2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

To be fair to @Ivorguy he has indeed been saying it for ages!

My take is this. Steve Lansdown, whatever we may think of him as an individual (met him a few times, decent enough chap), can surely, after 20+ years of running Bristol City, be judged on his record? That record suggests that SL is not in the least a 'football man'. He relies on deep pockets and a big ego to sustain him. The club is arguably no nearer returning to the top flight of English football than it was when he first showed up, when the challenge was considerably easier than it is today. After 20+ years in which many clubs with far greater challenges have made the step up, that's a pretty damning indictment. The rest is tittle tattle really, managers will come and go and at best we'll yo-yo between tiers 2 and 3 forever more under the Lansdowns. Maybe that's fine, it's better than going bust...but it's a future, like most of the recent past, devoid of glory and rather uninspiring. 

Whether it's a storm in a teacup or something more fundamental that James Piercy article is a massive improvement on comment on the club in recent years. Actually poses some difficult questions.

A league cup semi final, 2 promotions from division 3, a couple of football league trophies and time spent flitting between division 2 and 3.

1985 - 2002.

Absolutely we have a lovely redeveloped stadium and and training facilities. Genuine and sincere thanks for those

[Waconda]

7 minutes ago, Yellow&Blue&Red said:

The way that Pearson blasted Bakinson was puzzling. As above, if he wants to get rid of him, I couldn't understand why he'd undermine his resale value.

One possibility that occurred to me was that Bakinson had been argumentative and / or undermining of other players or more likely someone on the coaching team and Pearson wanted to very publicly and forcefully give his backing to whoever had been on the receiving end of Bakinson's 'negative' behaviour. At the time he described Bakinson as 'sapping people's energy' (or something - can't remember the exact quote.

If that were the reason Pearson gave him both barrels as he shipped him out, then I think that could be well judged.

Bakinson put in a transfer request in the Summer.

[Rich]

11 minutes ago, 054123 said:

A league cup semi final, 2 promotions from division 3, a couple of football league trophies and time spent flitting between division 2 and 3.

1985 - 2002.

Absolutely we have a lovely redeveloped stadium and and training facilities. Genuine and sincere thanks for those

1 League cup Semi Final in those years?

 

[CodeRed]

Jon Lansdown proving yet again that there's no task he can't screw up.

SL must have though it would be fine, get the boy to do the announcement of a new sponser which should be welcome news given the way the wind is blowing regarding betting companies in sport, give a short speech and informally chat with a few selected media types after for half an hour. What could possibly go wrong?

Well now he's upset Nige, caused the local rag to poke into into the way SL has run the club - which SL was hoping everybody had forgotten about - and caused the press release to be issued with more redactions than a Sue Gray report.

Steve - If you want a job doing properly ................

 

 

[exAtyeoMax]

47 minutes ago, spudski said:

In the 14 minute segment that was deleted, was there comments along the line of NP not knowing what the Club stood for and what it's ' identity' was...still trying to work it out.

Or was that in another recent interview?

I know I heard it recently.

I heard it too, possibly in the one on YT

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I heard it too, possibly in the one on YT

Cool... thought I might have imagined it. 

 

[DingleRed]

46 minutes ago, 054123 said:

A league cup semi final, 2 promotions from division 3, a couple of football league trophies and time spent flitting between division 2 and 3.

1985 - 2002.

Absolutely we have a lovely redeveloped stadium and and training facilities. Genuine and sincere thanks for those

For all the criticism of SL and his family, reflect on the fact that, under their ownership, 13 of the past 15 seasons have been spent in the Championship. In the previous 15 years it was 4. I don't believe we have seen that level of consistency at this level in my 60 years following the club. I guess we could all make better decisions, mostly with hindsight. This consistency has come at a cost but not out of step with many other clubs. If running a club was that easy......

Edited February 18, 2022 by DingleRed

[CHIPLEY RED]

"We haven’t won the number of games that we should have done. We haven’t got the number of points that we should have. But we’re not under-performing. In fact, a lot of our players are over-performing."

I cannot understand this statement from the manager who last week publicly slated some of the players.

If "We haven’t won the number of games that we should have done. We haven’t got the number of points that we should have." then by definition we are under performing and if "a lot of our players are over-performing." what was the rant about last week?

Publicly criticizing the players now the Chairman - I think his days will be numbered.

[054123]

8 minutes ago, DingleRed said:

For all the criticism of SL and his family, reflect on the fact that, under their ownership, 13 of the past 15 seasons have been spent in the Championship. In the previous 15 years it was 4. I don't believe we have seen that level of consistency at this level in my 60 years following the club. I guess we could all make better decisions, mostly with hindsight. This consistency has come at a cost but not out of step with many other clubs. If running a club was that easy......

Absolutely. Completely fair to point out that since 2002 we’ve spent more time in Div 2 than Div 3. Probably something like 70-75%. As opposed to maybe 30-50%.

I’ve done lots of reflecting though and don’t see the two as that different.

[1960maaan]

Good article by James Piercy covering recent interviews and announcements. I've been impressed with him so far, this is a good balanced piece again.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/nigel-pearson-jon-lansdown-bristol-6678947

I've picked out a few thoughts that stood out to me.

revealing it’s “certainly not less” when asked about the monetary value of the Huboo deal compared with MansionBet 

This answers a question that was going around, good news as Manshion was reported as being our biggest ever deal I seem to recall. Plus I think it's still good business as finding Sponsorship can't be easy at the moment, even if the money is spread across several teams.

“We should be competitively better than we are doing at the moment in the league.”  

Well, and this has been discussed elsewhere , Is JL saying anything that Pearson hasn't said ? TBF I agree , we should be doing better. 26 points dropped from winning positions speaks for itself. 

Based on his words - and if you were hyper-analysing them in the context of his feelings towards Pearson, there was more not-so positive stuff than there was positive stuff 

I've not heard the bit he's talking about, so I can't tell how it was said, but Piercy does say off hand comments. He contiues ...

His words could be viewed as either direct criticism of apparent under-achievement, or under-performance as Pearson recognised it, or a message to the manager that the desire for progress up the league table is anticipated over these remaining 14 games of the season. A sort of subconscious reminder of what’s expected, if you like.

This is all in how you take it, and reading it, it is impossible to get inflections or and subtle meaning that may , or may not, have been there. But it gave Pearson a chance to come back with, depending what you think, an explanation of how big the job is (if we were in any doubt) or a chance to respond to a perceived dig. I think Nige was getting it out there just how bad things were. 

we’ve got ourselves into a mess as a football club by having a previous strategy to build within a squad and that is spending too much money and having to sell to stay viable which is bonkers.

I'm not sure I'm surprised Jon defended the "strategy", but I am a little disappointed. Buying to sell is never a lasting business plan, if indeed that was the case. Specially as it seemed recruitment relied on Ashton and Ashton alone. No one likes to be told that what you have been doing, which you may have thought successful , is wrong. The fact we were paying 120% of income on wages suggests it was.

(Premier League ) our aim is still to get there. It might take longer than we hope but what is important at the moment is that we get the foundations right. The foundations haven’t been right.”

I think this is painfully obvious. Again I can understand the Lansdown's being a little defensive, it feels like they have been mugged off by an old friend (Aston), and it hurts.

Then came the confirmation, and it was said in a relaxed and almost comedic tone but also with sincerity: “he’s the chairman so he’s allowed to have that point of view, I don’t agree with it personally” only to then be repeated after he had detailed some reasons why with another telling line about the club potentially not knowing what it wants its identity to be. And with that Nigel was gone.

Identity, hhmmm. The sort of word Mark 'it's all about me' Ashton would use, but where I always thought with him it was more Corporate speak, another idea to run up the flagpole , with Pearson it feels more real.  I like that the Manager, the CEO and the Chairman/owner don't all agree, that's healthy . It means there are differing ideas and it can lead to a healthy future, as long as they are brave enough to trust .

I don't like that the 15 minutes was cut from the "full interview" , it's petty and doesn't look good to fans. Changing the title wasn't the right move either. The Lansdown's just make themselves look weak by doing this, if it was them. I'd rather see Steve come out and laugh it off as normal interaction, I don't think Jon is good enough to do that, I've never really been impressed with him in front of the camera.  

TBH, I'm thinking storm in a teacup , or Much ado about nothing for you scholarly types. If everyone has the same idea and the same plan, the Club coasts. A little spark, a bit of disagreement is good. We needed a strong personality , we got one and I'm still optimistic.
 

[Red Exile]

18 minutes ago, DingleRed said:

For all the criticism of SL and his family, reflect on the fact that, under their ownership, 13 of the past 15 seasons have been spent in the Championship. In the previous 15 years it was 4. I don't believe we have seen that level of consistency at this level in my 60 years following the club. I guess we could all make better decisions, mostly with hindsight. This consistency has come at a cost but not out of step with many other clubs. If running a club was that easy......

There's no denying greater consistency, although I'm bound to say that I've not felt any more inclined to actually attend matches...'entertainment' and City have often been strangers.

Where I'd take issue is the currently in vogue criticism killer 'with hindsight'. No hindsight was needed to see that failure to give Keith Burt and Cotts the resources they needed would have consequences, or that LJ was a leap in the dark, or that he was retained for too long, or that Holden was a bizarre appointment...or further back that trusting SL on Tinnion was perhaps unwise! Many people could have made better decisions, SL's ownership model hasn't allowed any other voices to be heard.

[GrahamC]

6 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

There's no denying greater consistency, although I'm bound to say that I've not felt any more inclined to actually attend matches...'entertainment' and City have often been strangers.

Where I'd take issue is the currently in vogue criticism killer 'with hindsight'. No hindsight was needed to see that failure to give Keith Burt and Cotts the resources they needed would have consequences, or that LJ was a leap in the dark, or that he was retained for too long, or that Holden was a bizarre appointment...or further back that trusting SL on Tinnion was perhaps unwise! Many people could have made better decisions, SL's ownership model hasn't allowed any other voices to be heard.

Yep & let’s be honest, we (they?) have spent an inordinate amount of money just to float along at this level.

Only the GJ era (the first season up especially) & the LJ season when we beat Man U could be seen as giving us any real optimism of progress.

Pretty much all of the tangible improvements are in infrastructure, the rest is flatlining at best.

Worth reflecting too that they went to Nige rumoured to be only one of two, (Paul Cook was the other), out of six managers they made contact with who was prepared to take the job on.

I know he’s got things wrong but still think his track record means we are lucky to have him at this juncture.

[054123]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

1 League cup Semi Final in those years?

 

Forest……so close!

[ExiledAjax]

If the way Pearson said:

36 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

“he’s the chairman so he’s allowed to have that point of view, I don’t agree with it personally”

Was truly:

36 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

in a relaxed and almost comedic tone but also with sincerity

Then the Club censoring it seems really odd, and a real failure of judgement. It's not as if the cutting of the press conference has silenced discussion on the matter - there's about 5 threads on the topic on OTIB alone right now! 

38 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

TBH, I'm thinking storm in a teacup , or Much ado about nothing for you scholarly types. If everyone has the same idea and the same plan, the Club coasts. A little spark, a bit of disagreement is good. We needed a strong personality , we got one and I'm still optimistic.

Agree with all that you say here. A little disruption, some questioning of decisions, it's healthy.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, ray savino said:

I have always had this feeling that NP may be the O’Driscoll of this era, coming in to discover a bigger shit storm than they thought, beginning to do the clear out, knowing what should be done, telling quite a few home truths to the owners, but ultimately not the person who will have the benefit of managing in a better financial climate for the club. 

I have the same feelings RS.

Nige will do all the heavy lifting, get all the foundations in place, but someone else might ultimately get us over the line.

In that situation, I kinda hope Nige is still here, “upstairs” somewhere, but has overseen the new guy rise to stardom.  Imagine that was Alex Ball for example.  How amazing would that be?

[Tin Soldier]

2 hours ago, ray savino said:

I think you may be right. When I first read the story, it smacked to me of someone pissed off like any fan that we have conceded too many results which would have put us further up the table. No more, no less.

If I had to be a bit more cynical then it was in part to put over a bit of populist fan frustration and a PR quote to keep onside with the fans, particularly with the problem of season ticket renewals having to be soon.

It’s probably somewhere between both. Bit of a misinterpreted off script gaff, that was possibly a clumsy deflection from the mistakes that have to eventually stop at the owners, decision makers and recruiters at the top. Ultimately, judged on results the project in its many many incarnations has failed. This is not a nice thing for people who have built their reputation on success to easily take.

However, there is no doubt that fans will start to question the decision making, wasteful recruitment and ultimate failure of management regimes to live up to the ultimate sales pitch of getting to the Prem. And not even making the play-offs when we have surrendered good positions to do so. Particularly in 17/18, 18/19 and 19/20 when we fell away badly, despite appearing to have better investment in being able to recruit and real votes of confidence for the management at these times. Didn’t LJ, I think in his final weeks of his tenure here, cryptically mention about people knowing the full story of behind the scenes, but wait till his book came out? Or something along those lines.

I have always had this feeling that NP may be the O’Driscoll of this era, coming in to discover a bigger shit storm than they thought, beginning to do the clear out, knowing what should be done, telling quite a few home truths to the owners, but ultimately not the person who will have the benefit of managing in a better financial climate for the club. 

Trouble is, Mark Ashton should have been that character. The Lansdowns appeared to trust him and no doubt his tenure has left the club in a backward trajectory. I would be amazed if the owners don’t see this, however painful, and ultimately they have to take responsibility for this.

I love Bristol City and supporting them. But it can be painful because let‘s be honest here, historically results and performance wise we are so bang average. Won’t stop me from supporting them, too late to change now! But would just like to see our club reach the top level again by having a realistic plan and the conviction to stick to it.

I hope this perceived spat is nothing more than misunderstandings and they can both stay on the same page with a real plan and sense of reality for rebuilding this club, preferably in the Championship. It might just give us the chance of a few more brighter days to come.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Just read it.
What I have really enjoyed this season is NPs honesty with the fans. It has exposed what a fair few on here suspected. We might not like what he says sometimes but NP wears his heart on his sleeve. Most City fans will like this and if NP was to leave/get pushed out by the Lansdownes (another manager goes again), I suspect they would have a high % of City fans kicking off about the way the club has been run.

The biz model the Lansdownes were/are still using just ain’t fit for purpose and the chaos NP refers to, clearly exposes the constraints he now has to work within.

For Jon Lansdown to then question the performance of the Team after they have been selling off all the best bits in recent years is laughable. Quite frankly, Jonboy should not be allowed anywhere near the football club IMO.

I know it is a gamble, but hopefully a fresh pair of eyes and new ownership/leadership will come along as I’ve had enough of the mistakes SL makes with the running of the club. Shambolic.

[1960maaan]

@ExiledAjax

Yep, as I said , you can't tell how it was said without seeing the clip, which ain't gonna happen.

It just makes the Club appear, weak, petty and scared of opinion . 
All it would take is Jon and/or Steve to come out and say something like. Different opinions are healthy , we know there were mistakes made and we want to be better than we are. They are far too defensive when it comes to the media, just looks weak.

[bcfc01]

4 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

@ExiledAjax

Yep, as I said , you can't tell how it was said without seeing the clip, which ain't gonna happen.

It just makes the Club appear, weak, petty and scared of opinion . 
All it would take is Jon and/or Steve to come out and say something like. Different opinions are healthy , we know there were mistakes made and we want to be better than we are. They are far too defensive when it comes to the media, just looks weak.

GMG says he will be uploading the interview in its entirety later today/tomorrow.