Pearson comments- might be a quiet summer

[The Bard]

11 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

This kind of strikes me as “nothing to see here”. Nige also commented to pay fees we may need to trade, which we already knew. As has been pointed out, there are a lot of free agents and players in contract where a deal may be done (ie we’d probably let Palmer go for nowt if his wages go and there will be players at other clubs in the same boat)

People commenting that it’s not a good way to sell STs or using it as a reason not to renew haven’t been paying attention for the last six months.

Or , they won't and never will get it.

[And Its Smith]

38 minutes ago, robin for life said:

I think we'll see Joe Bryan and Marlon Pack return this summer and I think Semenyo, and Massengo will leave.

I think Wells will get his chance with Semenyo gone and Pack is a direct replacement for Massengo

Joe Bryan adds defence and midfield abilities and will allow Wiemann to play a more central role.

Absolutely zero chance of Bryan coming back I’m afraid. We cannot afford him. 

[swanker]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

How many other clubs are in such a shite state as us. Many have not mismanaged as poorly as us for such a long period and will surely be able to spend something.

Debt is a massive problem in football and most teams don’t make ends meet. Good job we’ve got Landsdown. 

[The Coach]

In order to progres, I do feel we will need to sell Semenyo, Scott & Massengo this summer. 

Need to get out of the FFP mess. Then need mass funding to build a new squad. Otherwise, I think we are destined for League One come 23/24 season. 

[Steve Watts]

14 hours ago, Slack said:

Within FFP how can the club generate income without selling players? He mentioned being creative at one point. Obviously we don't want to do anything dodgy but is there a way? IE naming rights etc? 

I wonder if the group sponsorship has factored into this thinking.  "If you sponsor the football club for £X we'll chuck your name on the rugby, basketball and womens shirts for a nominal fee." sort of scenario, rather than the sponsorship money being spread across all clubs under the BS banner.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Steve Watts

[Selred]

25 minutes ago, The Coach said:

In order to progres, I do feel we will need to sell Semenyo, Scott & Massengo this summer. 

Need to get out of the FFP mess. Then need mass funding to build a new squad. Otherwise, I think we are destined for League One come 23/24 season. 

How will we progress without 3 of our best players? You remove quality, sign a number of mediocre players, and we won’t stay up. 

[Robbored]

56 minutes ago, Sturny said:

Something we're completely and utterly useless at most of the time. Transfer policy was one step forward two steps back for a long while. 

You can blame the fraud Ashton and LJ for that.

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, Selred said:

How will we progress without 3 of our best players? You remove quality, sign a number of mediocre players, and we won’t stay up. 

Why would we sign ‘ mediocre ‘ players ?

Weimann could have been classed as ‘ mediocre ‘ before he joined us. Scott was languishing in Guernsey, Semenyo at a private academy …

The recruitment needs to be spot on but we’ve recently managed to improve more players than we’ve ruined so I am quietly optimistic that we could advance with the , regrettable, sales of our favourites. Especially if this frees our hand to have a better balanced squad that NP wants.

 

[RedRock]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You can blame the fraud Ashton and LJ for that.

Loathed to add SL to that list, but it didn’t take a rocket scientist to realise that with the football development strategy he had in place the lack of an experienced Director of Football, a Chief Scout and a Scouting System worthy of its name we were doomed. 
 

Much to applaud SL for, Club investment, stadium rebuild, Bristol Sport vision etc but staffing structures ain’t his strong card.

[Selred]

1 minute ago, Major Isewater said:

Why would we sign ‘ mediocre ‘ players ?

Weimann could have been classed as ‘ mediocre ‘ before he joined us. Scott was languishing in Guernsey, Semenyo at a private academy …

The recruitment needs to be spot on but we’ve recently managed to improve more players than we’ve ruined so I am quietly optimistic that we could advance with the , regrettable, sales of our favourites. Especially if this frees our hand to have a better balanced squad that NP wants.

 

Our recruitment hasn't been spot on for years unfortunately. If we lose Semenyo and Scott, that's two of our most creative players. Who will we be able to bring in to make up for their loss? 

 

[Ska Junkie]

6 hours ago, Pezo said:

That all depends on your perspective on who the football club is, if you think Bristol city holdings is the football club then we own the football club. That is also how it works for financial reporting purposes.

Who do you think owns the stadium if it isn't us? It's not the bears, it's not Bristol sport, it's not any other sport team that SL owns.

Thanks Pezo, I just didn't think it was owned by the football club rather the 'umbrella' company.

[Tin Soldier]

12 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Yet so many idiots do not understand what a £38 M loss really means . Too many used to signing  many players with fees . Love or hate Nige , he is dealing with an awful situation but is getting in with it . No complaints just strong pragmatism. At least we have a fighter with us . It just amplifies how disastrous the previous regime were . But we will come out fighting . This recovery is going to take time , the priority is not being relegated , then we can breathe and build . Build with inventive and hungry players . That will take us far  . We lost our way .

support needed . But when you see players fighting , as fans you get behind it . You cannot underestimate the mess we are sorting 

Well said. Just ignore the idiots who don’t understand how bad Ashton, Johnson and Co were.

[The Coach]

53 minutes ago, Selred said:

How will we progress without 3 of our best players? You remove quality, sign a number of mediocre players, and we won’t stay up. 

Apart from Scott, are Massengo and Semenyo our next best players? That's debatable. Massengo appears to want to leave at the end of his contract. So it would make sense to sell him. Jury is still out for me with Semenyo. I would rather get a good fee now, with a good sell on clause that would also include appearance fee.

We need funding in order to re-build a new squad all round. Not just plug the gaps with 1-2 free agents or low fee figure signings. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by The Coach

[cidered abroad]

44 minutes ago, Selred said:

Our recruitment hasn't been spot on for years unfortunately. If we lose Semenyo and Scott, that's two of our most creative players. Who will we be able to bring in to make up for their loss? 

 

I've said elsewhere that if we intend to sell, I believe letting Massengo go will prove best for the team, even if we'd probably get less than Scott and Semenyo.

[cidered abroad]

40 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Thanks Pezo, I just didn't think it was owned by the football club rather the 'umbrella' company.

It's owned, companywise, by a separate company within Bristol City FC in order that if the football club goes bust, there is still a stadium for any recovery.

Done by Des Williams around 1984 after the 1982 shambles.

[Desso]

15 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Who covets Pring out of interest ? 
I’ve not seen anything on him. 

I covet Pring. I think he's lovely.

[Selred]

38 minutes ago, The Coach said:

Apart from Scott, are Massengo and Semenyo our next best players? That's debatable. Massengo appears to want to leave at the end of his contract. So it would make sense to sell him. Jury is still out for me with Semenyo. I would rather get a good fee now, with a good sell on clause that would also include appearance fee.

We need funding in order to re-build a new squad all round. Not just plug the gaps with 1-2 free agents or low fee figure signings. 

 

27 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I've said elsewhere that if we intend to sell, I believe letting Massengo go will prove best for the team, even if we'd probably get less than Scott and Semenyo.

I am more than happy to sell one, ideally it's HNM. But the poster said all 3, which to me does not make sense.

@The Coach Semenyo is absolutely up there for me. Been a top player since Christmas!

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, The Bard said:

'Did he not say 'At the moment '?

That means he doesn't have a transfer pot now. Just means we need to sell to buy. 

Yes. There are still key parts.

Sell to buy or if large sell on revenue comes in, then we might be able to use it to fix things. I'd prioritise in this order:

1) Offset FFP. If eg we get £10m in sell on fees from Webster or Kelly and we have a £5m FFP hole to fix as of now, that'd still leave us with £5m to play with.

2) If we can't sell, look to loan some players who have run their course. Partial or full wage saving possible there. More freedom to do that with a little cushion.

3) Those we want to keep, use some of the surplus to offer extensions on wages more fitting for the times. More security but perhaps lower wages or maybe more incentives within the deal with a reduced basic.

4) Then and only then, spend the surplus net of an FFP breach on new signings IMO.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Does anyone know if sales this summer will quash our FFP problems? Or have we already 'failed' a 3 year cycle and therefore can expect a points deduction/fine? As I understand it, we've time to rectify the issue but my knowledge of the intricacies of FFP pail in comparison to some of the posters on here. 

Think that the general consensus is that we're certainly within to 2020/21 and well within to 2021/22. 4 year cycle due to Covid, profit from 2018/19 still on the books...

It's to 2022/23 where the potential issue arises. The starting point sees that profit drop off to be replaced by a loss in the Covid period (combined average of 2019/20 and 2020/21), in FFP terms a negative swing of £25-30m. (£15m FFP profit to £10-15m FFP loss. I make the latter- £14m).

Maybe a shortfall of £4-5m as it stands heading into 2022/23?

ie

1) Combined average of 2019/20 and 2020/21

2) 2021/22

3) 2022/23

[BLRed]

Could call it conspiracy but I wonder if kalas is not actually injured but being ‘rested’ to allow us to see if cundy is up to it prior to kalas being sold in the summer. His sale would be significant to reduce amortisation and reduce wage bill being one of the biggest earners.

just removing him, o’dowda and wells off the books by various means would allow some good wriggle room with salary to compete for the better freebies out there and avoid us having to sell off our prized assets (Scott, semenyo, massengo) immediately.

to note, if any prized assets are sold, massengo obviously to be the likeliest due to contract which could provide a small amount of transfer kitty to work with.

kinda wish the season ended now so we can just get on with reshaping the squad

[Pezo]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

Thanks Pezo, I just didn't think it was owned by the football club rather the 'umbrella' company.

It's pretty normal to have a football team and a stadium separate but report into a holding company and that holding company is essentially the football club (combination of stadium and team) from an assets perspective.

The holding company could be seen as an umbrella company if you see the thing called Bristol City FC as the club (which sounds sensible) but that's where is nuanced. I don't believe Bristol City FC is actually used for reporting though and is more a basket (case) of assets for the holding company.

[BCFCGav]

26 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Think that the general consensus is that we're certainly within to 2020/21 and well within to 2021/22. 4 year cycle due to Covid, profit from 2018/19 still on the books...

It's to 2022/23 where the potential issue arises. The starting point sees that profit drop off to be replaced by a loss in the Covid period (combined average of 2019/20 and 2020/21), in FFP terms a negative swing of £25-30m. (£15m FFP profit to £10-15m FFP loss. I make the latter- £14m).

Maybe a shortfall of £4-5m as it stands heading into 2022/23?

ie

1) Combined average of 2019/20 and 2020/21

2) 2021/22

3) 2022/23

Thanks mate. So we shouldn't have to pull up too many trees this summer to be ok again in the current 4 year cycle. Maybe 2 big sales and a trimming of the wage bill again. 

[GrahamC]

11 minutes ago, BLRed said:

Could call it conspiracy but I wonder if kalas is not actually injured but being ‘rested’ to allow us to see if cundy is up to it prior to kalas being sold in the summer. His sale would be significant to reduce amortisation and reduce wage bill being one of the biggest earners.

just removing him, o’dowda and wells off the books by various means would allow some good wriggle room with salary to compete for the better freebies out there and avoid us having to sell off our prized assets (Scott, semenyo, massengo) immediately.

to note, if any prized assets are sold, massengo obviously to be the likeliest due to contract which could provide a small amount of transfer kitty to work with.

kinda wish the season ended now so we can just get on with reshaping the squad

Don’t think the first part is a conspiracy theory at all, seems probable to me.

Think shifting him & O’Dowda does improve our position but doubt very much it would do so to the extent of stopping a sale, plus of course HNM’s contract situation might force one anyway.

 

[Silvio Dante]

24 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Williams

James

King 

Baker

Bakinson 

Moore

Palmer

Vyner

Are most likely outs for a number of reasons 

 

 

Williams and James outs?

Williams, if fit, is an automatic pick and quality at this level. I know the answer will be “he’s an out because he’s injured”, but who is going to buy if he is crocked, and if he’s not crocked, why would we not keep him?

James I’ve been disappointed by after a decent start. However he’s got two years left and is clearly trusted by Nige. On the basis we expect King to retire, Bakinson to be sold, HNM to probably go and Palmer out if we can, why would Niges most trusted long term player who is in that position be an out?

[Redrascal2]

3 hours ago, swanker said:

Debt is a massive problem in football and most teams don’t make ends meet. Good job we’ve got Landsdown. 

Lansdown has helped to  create the mess we are in by giving Johnson endless amounts to spend and picking an endless supply of sub standard managers. But fair play he bails us out of the mess he has caused by poor stewardship. And  after years of his reign, we have ended up in the state we are in now, some legacy.

[Ska Junkie]

1 hour ago, Pezo said:

It's pretty normal to have a football team and a stadium separate but report into a holding company and that holding company is essentially the football club (combination of stadium and team) from an assets perspective.

The holding company could be seen as an umbrella company if you see the thing called Bristol City FC as the club (which sounds sensible) but that's where is nuanced. I don't believe Bristol City FC is actually used for reporting though and is more a basket (case) of assets for the holding company.

Thanks again Pezo.

I suppose what really bothers me is the like of Stoke, selling their stadium and training ground to comply. What on earth do they do in future as the asset cupboard is pretty much bare there?

They can't sell the stadium again so their attitude seems very short termist and essentially, shit or bust!

Very concerning that clubs are putting their very existence at risk in pursuit of a dream which may not happen.

Maybe I'm missing something, it wouldn't be the first time.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Ska Junkie

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, Tin Soldier said:

Well said. Just ignore the idiots who don’t understand how bad Ashton, Johnson and Co were.

Tbf to the "idiots," we did finish 8th and 11th under those two and contested a League Cup semi final, so they'll be struggling to grasp why Ashton and LJ were rubbish, and Big Nige is doing a good job. Unless you explain to them, and not ignore them.

Because the club don't explain these things. The club, like all clubs, are not open and transparent. They are economical with the truth. And pretty disingenuous at times. 

And it's also possible that they - the club - don't understand fully either, see JL saying "come on Nige, this is shite! We should be not-shite."

Or, Nige is shite, and the "idiots" know something we don't. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

Thanks again Pezo.

I suppose what really bothers me is the like of Stoke, selling their stadium and training ground to comply. What on earth do they do in future as the asset cupboard is pretty much bare there?

They can't sell the stadium again so their attitude seems very short termist and essentially, shit or bust!

Very concerning that clubs are putting their very existence at risk in pursuit of a dream which may not happen.

Maybe I'm missing something, it wouldn't be the first time.

Do agree with what you say. The one caveat about Stoke is that while FFP may well prove a challenge, the solvency shouldn't as Peter Coates is a passionate Stoke fan. One of the best local owners in the game, Bet365 also Stoke based so as long as they're onside but that's solvency, FFP the other side of the coin.

Selling the stadium and training ground to Bet365 also keeps it in the family- the Coates family also own Bet365 although how much interest in Stoke City FC Denise (the CEO) has is open to question. Unsure about John Coates too in relation to Peter.

On a general note however, I totally agree. Fortunately it's now heavily disincetivised as Fixed Asset sales from 2021/22 adjusted out of FFP calculations.

Wouldn't stop a bad or property minded owner buying a fixed asset though and leasing it back at huge rent for their own gain, just wouldn't impact FFP.

Offset some of the debt say £50m, get the ground as fair value also £50m, charge £4m per year rent and it's a nice little cash cow! Especially if you run the club in a way whereby you don't need to invest cash.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 hours ago, The Bard said:

. I much prefer being lied to by charlatans. 

From "Tellin' Stories" iirc?

[Ska Junkie]

46 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Do agree with what you say. The one caveat about Stoke is that while FFP may well prove a challenge, the solvency shouldn't as Peter Coates is a passionate Stoke fan. One of the best local owners in the game, Bet365 also Stoke based so as long as they're onside but that's solvency, FFP the other side of the coin.

Selling the stadium and training ground to Bet365 also keeps it in the family- the Coates family also own Bet365 although how much interest in Stoke City FC Denise (the CEO) has is open to question. Unsure about John Coates too in relation to Peter.

On a general note however, I totally agree. Fortunately it's now heavily disincetivised as Fixed Asset sales from 2021/22 adjusted out of FFP calculations.

Wouldn't stop a bad or property minded owner buying a fixed asset though and leasing it back at huge rent for their own gain, just wouldn't impact FFP.

Offset some of the debt say £50m, get the ground as fair value also £50m, charge £4m per year rent and it's a nice little cash cow! Especially if you run the club in a way whereby you don't need to invest cash.

What can they sell next year though Mr P? I appreciate they're selling to their owner / a big fan, so it's understandable but they can't 'sell' anything in order to comply, if they're in the same position, in 12 months.

False economy isn't it?

Edited April 8, 2022 by Ska Junkie