The Semenyo Thread - Now a Bournemouth Player. Deal Confirmed

[Sheltons Army]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s what I’ve been suggesting too.

Recognise his worth, improve his current wage but set sensible, mutually agreement “exit route” (nice term).

Just say he’s on £100k p.a now (£2k p.w.) which is v.low based on what he’s done for us, then doubling, trebling, etc for a year, with an extended expiry would make a lot of sense, even if he then gets sold next summer (or in January).  It benefits / protects both parties.  Antoine could get injured, heaven forbid.

a question for you Dave , or @Mr Popodopolous, or any of the other dark horses who have a good knowledge of finances , contracts

 

Could we offer Antoine a new contract (With a wage in keeping with our top players but not out of sync with them) but with a clause that gives him a percentage of the future transfer fee - the more we get , the more he gets it - a retrospective recompense if you like 

Something for example  like % 5 ? (He goes for £20 m he gets £1m ) 

Possibly something like that , or say %5 up to £20m and %20 of anything above that (So if he goes for £30m he gets £3m) - Just suggested % off the top my head

 

An incentive for him to sign a new deal and to stay in short term ?

Would this be acceptable in the regulations , any idea ?

 

* If allowed I’ve thought it may be a way forward with young promising , potentially valuable players , the better they get , the longer they stay , the more value they have , not only to the club but to themselves

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sheltons Army

[GrahamC]

53 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

 

 

I would still try to give him a better contract , with exit routes for him and extensions for us if we are promoted/not promoted . So his progress is recognised . 

Money will talk but I do hope for once we put our footballing needs first or we are never going to get near the Prem. 
 

 

Makes perfect sense & I’m confident that Gould is on to it.

However our next move here probably depends on his response to that, if he isn’t interested then we have to consider a sale, as although he’s too young to leave for free, we won’t get anything like market value via compensation.

I think the bidding club was one of the promoted sides & that’s the rub here, if he has the prospect of Prem football in August it is difficult to sell him a vision that we can get there soon.

[GrahamC]

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we’d be entertaining a wage outside of the new wage structure that Nige / Gould wants to implement.  The alleged wages of Kalas and Palmer are out of step with the current market, so we wouldn’t offer Antoine that.

Exactly this, Weimann & Martin are his strike partners & they are unlikely to be on the sort of money those 2 (& Wells) are on.

[Magicdaps]

34 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I think the key lies in recruitment, Brentford always seem to have equivalent or better players lined up to replace those who wish to pursue their careers elsewhere. 
Obviously it didn’t stop them going up . 
You can never stop the conveyor belt of players being poached by bigger clubs, we do it to clubs in the lower leagues , so you have to adapt.

 I believe that with the investment in the HPC, playing time offered to those who merit it and the quality of Nigel Pearson, we are an attractive proposition for new and existing players.

NP is slowly changing the culture  of the club and the desire to improve is evident, we have said goodbye to Bristol Cosy football club . 

Spot on.  100% agree.  Succession planning is vital.  If you do it properly, then rather than waiting for a key player to leave and then either panic buying a replacement or not replacing at all you at least give yourselves a fighting chance of managing things better.  It won't always work and each scenario has it's own nuances of course but it's a much better approach than just reacting when, as is inevitable given our place in the football food chain, a key player or bright young talent is sold.  You would hope that we had a theoretical target/watch list in place as a contingency for all positions, or at least all key players.

[headhunter]

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t think we’d be entertaining a wage outside of the new wage structure that Nige / Gould wants to implement.  The alleged wages of Kalas and Palmer are out of step with the current market, so we wouldn’t offer Antoine that.

If, as you said, Semenyo is currently on £2k per week and we offer £10k which is probably within our pay structure then that is fine but not if Celtic or whoever are offering him a 3 year deal at £15k per week now; in fact if "whoever" is any Prem club then read £20k. Semenyo will want that cash NOW like Webster did - its a short career after all!!

[cidered abroad]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Antoine is not the finished player , that is clear , but he has all the attributes required for the top flight . He is improving and learning fast . You cannot set a logical price as it is irrelevant . It is whatever the club value his 2 years of contract , balancing our needs and those of Antoine . Would he benefit from another full season , undoubtedly yes , would  it stop him getting a big move ? No , maybe enhance it . He will get more game time with us and he is 22 , these are valuable development minutes . Do we value those 2 years at 10 m ? I would say , no , much more . It counts zero what other players sell for . You could argue that we are aiming for play offs ( and we are , we always are ) , what value getting to those and maybe the Prem ? What fee would enable us to better the squad , or replace a 22 year old talent ? Who knows , we were not good at spending a big fee in the past , it is not an exact science . Strikers are gold dust . 
 

Unless the fee is dramatic , and it would need to be more £20 m than £10 m, Antoine is worth more to us in our team next season . He can leave next summer as a 23 year old with another year of experience of playing full time . If he does well , we all do well . That is not holding him back , it is keeping his development on track , and meeting our needs . Contracts work both ways .  
 

I would still try to give him a better contract , with exit routes for him and extensions for us if we are promoted/not promoted . So his progress is recognised . 

Money will talk but I do hope for once we put our footballing needs first or we are never going to get near the Prem. 
 

 

Very good post billyw.

To me, it's not how many goals he will score. It is his pace that creates mayhem in opposing defences that gives the others the openings for goals.

Pearson has always said that he wants players with pace. Kante and Vardy in his Leicester side gave them the tools for that Premier title.

[Davefevs]

32 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

a question for you Dave , or @Mr Popodopolous, or any of the other dark horses who have a good knowledge of finances , contracts

 

Could we offer Antoine a new contract (With a wage in keeping with our top players but not out of sync with them) but with a clause that gives him a percentage of the future transfer fee - the more we get , the more he gets it - a retrospective recompense if you like 

Something for example  like % 5 ? (He goes for £20 m he gets £1m ) 

Possibly something like that , say %5 up to £20m and %20 of anything above that (So if he his for £30m he gets £3m) - Just suggested % off the top my head

An incentive for him to sign a new deal and to stay in short term ?

Would this be acceptable in the regulations , any idea ?

 

* If allowed I’ve thought it may be a way forward with young promising , potentially valuable players , the better they get , the more value they have , not only to the club but to themselves

Players used to get a cut, think it was 2.5%, not sure if they still do, or are allowed to Im afraid.

5 minutes ago, headhunter said:

If, as you said, Semenyo is currently on £2k per week and we offer £10k which is probably within our pay structure then that is fine but not if Celtic or whoever are offering him a 3 year deal at £15k per week now; in fact if "whoever" is any Prem club then read £20k. Semenyo will want that cash NOW like Webster did - its a short career after all!!

….and if said club stumps up £20m (or whatever the amount is) to go alongside that wage then he goes.  If not, he stays.  Gould will undoubtedly have spoken with Antoine and his agent - Finnegan (when discussing latest contract offer) about the kind of fee needed to prise him away.  It will come as no surprise to Antoine / Finnegan that we will turn down a £9m bid (alleged) if we’ve said £20m is the fee we want.  

[Lord Northski]

The £9M offer is presumably a toe in the water offer, hoping that City will take £12M. To lose him for less would be a real shame given the excitement he brings to City fans who've seen the absolute carnage he causes running at Championship defenders. If we are to sell him, a bidding war between a few clubs would be ideal. Given he has destructive pace, power and is so young £12M is way below his real worth. City are bloody right to tell Premiership clubs to sod off unless they come back with proper money.

Additionally, probably not alone in thinking that you wait a generation for the Messiah to come alone, and it would be just wrong to sell him to Norwich

Edited June 14, 2022 by Lord Northski

[Sniper]

11 minutes ago, Lord Northski said:

The £9M offer is presumably a toe in the water offer, hoping that City will take £12M. To lose him for less would be a real shame given the excitement he brings to City fans who've seen the absolute carnage he causes running at Championship defenders. If we are to sell him, a bidding war between a few clubs would be ideal. Given he has destructive pace, power and is so young £12M is way below his real worth. City are bloody right to tell Premiership clubs to sod off unless they come back with proper money. 

Totally agree. It's not just what you will get now with Semenyo, you're also buying the potential on what he could be.

[CyderInACan]

48 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Semenyo will want that cash NOW like Webster did - its a short career after all!!

I think it's a different scenario to that with Webster TBH. He's young, he's just established himself and seems to be grounded & humble with a good family around him. I'd hope that he'd listen to advice but ultimately make a decision that was right for his career, not just a move to a "big team" now when that is not necessarily the best move in terms of his potential trajectory. 

 

[headhunter]

8 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

I think it's a different scenario to that with Webster TBH. He's young, he's just established himself and seems to be grounded & humble with a good family around him. I'd hope that he'd listen to advice but ultimately make a decision that was right for his career, not just a move to a "big team" now when that is not necessarily the best move in terms of his potential trajectory. 

 

Antoine is 23 in January, a year younger than Webster was when he joined us and he was gone within 12 months. The "right time for his career" argument does not apply IMHO to Antoine but it DOES for Alex Scott who's only 19 in two months time.

[ScottishRed]

So much will depend on the lad himself and of course his agent.

There COULD come a point when a bid is made that the club deam too good to turn down, then it will be up to the player.

It is hard to see him turning down a move that will be to the PL and give him a salary of multiple times what we pay him - even with an improved contract, IF one was on offer.

The reality is that we and indeed most championship clubs cannot get anywhere close to what even a newly promoted side can offer in terms of salary..

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

So much will depend on the lad himself and of course his agent.

There COULD come a point when a bid is made that the club deam too good to turn down, then it will be up to the player.

It is hard to see him turning down a move that will be to the PL and give him a salary of multiple times what we pay him - even with an improved contract, IF one was on offer.

The reality is that we and indeed most championship clubs cannot get anywhere close to what even a newly promoted side can offer in terms of salary..

Money / wages are of course a big factor in any decision, but so is game time, enhancing Ghana (WC) opportunities, etc too.

[LondonBristolian]

37 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

So much will depend on the lad himself and of course his agent.

There COULD come a point when a bid is made that the club deam too good to turn down, then it will be up to the player.

It is hard to see him turning down a move that will be to the PL and give him a salary of multiple times what we pay him - even with an improved contract, IF one was on offer.

The reality is that we and indeed most championship clubs cannot get anywhere close to what even a newly promoted side can offer in terms of salary..

From everything I've read, I get the impression that Semenyo and his agent are both quite grounded and have got a pragmatic view.

I absolutely agree that he will leave for the right offer and the right Premier League club (and I think it will happen - I just really hope it is next summer when it does!). However I honestly don't think it will just be about the wages - it will be plans for him, style of football, chance of game time and finding a club and manager that have a long term plan for him too. I don't think he'll rush off for the first offer he gets and I'd not be shocked if he took an improved contact in the medium-term, as long as he gets reassurances that we won't stand in his way when an offer comes that is right for him and the club. 

[Davefevs]

15 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

From everything I've read, I get the impression that Semenyo and his agent are both quite grounded and have got a pragmatic view.

I absolutely agree that he will leave for the right offer and the right Premier League club (and I think it will happen - I just really hope it is next summer when it does!). However I honestly don't think it will just be about the wages - it will be plans for him, style of football, chance of game time and finding a club and manager that have a long term plan for him too. I don't think he'll rush off for the first offer he gets and I'd not be shocked if he took an improved contact in the medium-term, as long as he gets reassurances that we won't stand in his way when an offer comes that is right for him and the club. 

Girlfriend lives in London too.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Girlfriend lives in London too.

Leyton Orient it is then!

[LondonBristolian]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Girlfriend lives in London too.

Being honest, I struggle to think of a footballer in the Championship who better fits the criteria for a future Crystal Palace player...

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Being honest, I struggle to think of a footballer in the Championship who better fits the criteria for a future Crystal Palace player...

I know, I know.

Finnegan was a Palace player too.

[JoeAman08]

I was looking at sky transfers and it popped up saying Man City would sell Morgan Rodgers. He was at Bournemouth this season and think I remember they had an option to buy at 8-9m which it seems they have declined. Maybe it would only take 5-6m this summer. 
 

I would guess his wages are high as well but maybe affordable if we sold Semenyo? Perhaps could convince him of lower wages. I think we could be seen as an attractive option for young players like him to get their career to kick on. He hasn’t had a standout spell yet but he looks the part for sure.

I would put this under the highly unlikely category considering all that. Just thought I’d mention though as there is a high upside there and his physical profile is similar to Antoine. And if there is a position you spend 5m or more on, I think it is for attacking players. Perhaps just not the right time for us this summer. 

[bcfc01]

3 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Well I guess his injury could stop any move , Evil reporting he is likely to miss pre season . 

Indeed.

Seeing a specialist to see how bad it is.

 

[Merrick's Marvels]

23 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Well I guess his injury could stop any move , Evil reporting he is likely to miss pre season . 

I wondered about this when he was sent home by Ghana - had to be something substantial. Disappointing as we're half the side without him. 

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Girlfriend lives in London too.

Yes , In his recent interview with a Ghana Sports Pod he mentioned about spending time off in London with his girlfriend 

Fair play to the lad , with his loan spells , he’s not been afraid to go it alone as a young lad

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

Almost 2 weeks on from his shin injury and he's been recommended to see a specialist, though unclear when this will happen.

With a continuing 'anxious wait' before the severity of the injury is known

All seems a bit slow, 

[Pickle Rick]

11 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Almost 2 weeks on from his shin injury and he's been recommended to see a specialist, though unclear when this will happen.

With a continuing 'anxious wait' before the severity of the injury is known

All seems a bit slow, 

You never know, it could partly be a ploy to fend off interest if he’s injured with no return date.

[Red-Robbo]

On 31/05/2022 at 19:36, Rich said:

As well as the financial advantage Bournemouth currently have over us, because they splashed out, well above their weight and reaped the benefits. Big catchment area but, large ageing population of London retirees.

 

On 31/05/2022 at 19:41, archie andrews said:

apart from the seafront/pier area the rest of it is a shithole going the way of blackpool .........

 

If you think that, I suggest you don't know Bournemouth very well.  Christchurch and the New Forest coast are the Cosata Geriatrica. Bournemouth itself has a lower-than-average wage profile and some of the best paid jobs in the south-west outside Bristol.

If you avoid the horrors of Bournemouth pier beach and Boscombe, there are 21 miles of sand, with some lovely beaches at Hengistbury Head, Southbourne, Durley Chine and Sandbanks etc. 

[Rudolf Hucker]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Girlfriend lives in London too.

Blimey, you’re a dark horse Dave. 

[chinapig]

16 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Almost 2 weeks on from his shin injury and he's been recommended to see a specialist, though unclear when this will happen.

With a continuing 'anxious wait' before the severity of the injury is known

All seems a bit slow, 

This is familiar territory for us. It usually goes something like this:

°It's a minor injury, back in 2 weeks.

°Actually he now needs a month's rest.

°"He's back on the grass".

°Bit of a setback, back in 2 more weeks.

°Needs to see a specialist.

°Specialist recommends more rest.

°Month later no progress so sees specialist again.

°Specialist recommends surgery.

°Finally returns in February, after several more back on the grass/bit of a setback stages.

It's what we do.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by chinapig

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I wondered about this when he was sent home by Ghana - had to be something substantial. Disappointing as we're half the side without him. 

He's very good but not sure he's 5.5 players worth. Hopefully it's something that can be relatively easy to resolve but if not it's an opportunity for someone else to step up. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, chinapig said:

This is familiar territory for us. It usually goes something like this:

°It's a minor injury, back in 2 weeks.

°Actually he now needs a month's rest.

°"He's back on the grass".

°Bit of a setback, back in 2 more weeks.

°Needs to see a specialist.

°Specialist recommends more rest.

°Month later no progress so sees specialist again.

°Specialist recommends surgery.

°Finally returns in February, after several more back on the grass/bit of a setback stages.

It's what we do.

 

Although in this case club have said nothing

[Merrick's Marvels]

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

This is familiar territory for us. It usually goes something like this:

°It's a minor injury, back in 2 weeks.

°Actually he now needs a month's rest.

°"He's back on the grass".

°Bit of a setback, back in 2 more weeks.

°Needs to see a specialist.

°Specialist recommends more rest.

°Month later no progress so sees specialist again.

°Specialist recommends surgery.

°Finally returns in February, after several more back on the grass/bit of a setback stages.

It's what we do.

 

Shins aren't one of Dave Rennie's strong points,  it would seem.