The Semenyo Thread - Now a Bournemouth Player. Deal Confirmed

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well we've seen the consequences for clubs at our level disregarding it and I fear that as it stands atm we're set to breach this season albeit not a big one.

I actually believe that we are under some kind of monitoring requirements in line with a forecast breach hence the current inability to sign (Bamba on a free maybe an example of an acceptable deal).

My view is slightly / subtly different….we are looking at Bamba because we can’t afford anyone unless we cut some costs (someone leaves).  I don’t believe it’s the EFL constraining us, more it’s ourselves running the business properly.  I don’t think we make the summer signings if so.

We are under EFL monitoring (not restriction) regardless as we are in breach of the £15m lower-limit.

[Redrascal2]

10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Well we've seen the consequences for clubs at our level disregarding it and I fear that as it stands atm we're set to breach this season albeit not a big one.

I actually believe that we are under some kind of monitoring requirements in line with a forecast breach hence the current inability to sign (Bamba on a free maybe an example of an acceptable deal).

Fairly sure we can't even afford a loan deal on regular terms from a PL club as of now though, that's the hole we are in.

As previously mentioned the Academy is now massively important as a source of new players.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Redrascal2 said:

As previously mentioned the Academy is now massively important as a source of new players.

Yep, and look what gems there are if you give them the right exposure.  That’s not just games, but joining in training, becoming a member of the training squad, etc, etc.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

My view is slightly / subtly different….we are looking at Bamba because we can’t afford anyone unless we cut some costs (someone leaves).  I don’t believe it’s the EFL constraining us, more it’s ourselves running the business properly.  I don’t think we make the summer signings if so.

We are under EFL monitoring (not restriction) regardless as we are in breach of the £15m lower-limit.

This is fair too, we could be self-regulating in order to avoid more formal regulation and as you say running it correctly. Sure if we suddenly started splashing it without a plan or outgoings there would be a view from the Football League.

That's true, they'll be keeping an eye for that reason. Don't really see without outgoings much more than a Bamba type on a free coming in.

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

If we're going to take Massengo at his word then it begs the question why isn't he signing a contract?

If the rumoured offer of no increase is true then not really surprised. I know covid and all that. But he came as a 17 year old with very little first team football anywhere and he’s now a relatively experienced Chanpionship player with 100+ games. 

[DaveF]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Allegedly City knew in the summer of 2019 (halfway through his 4 years) that he was never gonna sign an extension, but nobody was interested at the fee we wanted or the wages Fam wanted.

In some respects, we wanted too much for him, and had made it harder by offering him too high a wage initially.

Over the next 12-18 months the club decided that “we’d get our value on the pitch”.  We didn’t.  It cost us his wages and amortisation for the that final period.

I’m not saying we’ve cracked it under RG, but there seems to be a better appreciation of a player who isn’t playing that it’s better to get something (Palmer - saved his wages) than nothing.

At some point we will see a squad of:

• Nige signings, e.g. Naismith, Atkinson, Wilson, etc
• Academy players, e.g. Conway, Scott, Smith
• players signed previously but re-contracted / properly extended by Nige, e.g. Weimann, Baker (are the only 2….so far) - I don’t include Martin as his extension was on his terms not club

we aren’t there yet, hence still stung by the previous regime’s “legacy”.  We will know much more when Kalas, Bentley, Dasilva, Massengo, Williams (2024) and Wells contract situations are solidified one way or another.

Nige will make mistakes in recruitment, e.g. Simpson, but hopefully they are low-value mistakes.

Sorry Dave, this may be a silly question as I have barely slept due to have a 5 day old but who is Smith?

9 minutes ago, italian dave said:

If the rumoured offer of no increase is true then not really surprised. I know covid and all that. But he came as a 17 year old with very little first team football anywhere and he’s now a relatively experienced Chanpionship player with 100+ games. 

Surely that isn't true!

[James54De]

5 hours ago, Logical-City said:

He will be gone for between 12-15 million and not upfront similar to Kodjia fee that Villa paid in instalment’s 

He has 2 years left only other scenario where we get a bigger fee is he stays and we gamble that we will be in the promotion mix come the end of January in that scenario he is worth 30m to us.

But we are in no position to gamble financially so we will take what we are given.

If we get £20m I will be shocked, even £17-18m would supprise me

Almost every transfer fee is paid in instalments over the contract length. It makes no difference on the balance sheet. 

[italian dave]

4 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Sorry Dave, this may be a silly question as I have barely slept due to have a 5 day old but who is Smith?

Surely that isn't true!

I’ve read it on here, so it must be

[PHILINFRANCE]

12 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Sorry Dave, this may be a silly question as I have barely slept due to have a 5 day old but who is Smith?

Surely that isn't true!

Isn’t he the young, promising winger we got from Wrexham?

He went out on loan and then left permanently on a free, or a very low fee.

Oh, and Congratulations on your newborn.

Edited August 30, 2022 by PHILINFRANCE

[DaveF]

20 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Isn’t he the young, promising winger we got from Wrexham?

He went out on loan and then left permanently on a free, or a very low fee.

Oh, and Congratulations on your newborn.

Yeah Jonny Smith, the next Gareth Bale. But he was never in and around the first team and it doesn't make much sense DaveFevs mentioning him! Maybe he meant Semenyo?

Thanks, poor girl is going to be a Bristol City fan.

[mozo]

34 minutes ago, italian dave said:

If the rumoured offer of no increase is true then not really surprised. I know covid and all that. But he came as a 17 year old with very little first team football anywhere and he’s now a relatively experienced Chanpionship player with 100+ games. 

I'm working on the assumption that Massengo came here not only because he was offered gametime but also because we offered more than a typical 17 year old gets paid. And in the current climate that pay might not be so disproportionate. 

Even if the no increase rumour were true, City might be saying 'look you're not going to get better elsewhere so sign another deal and if a big club comes in for you we won't stand in your way. Then Massengo's agent/dad says we'll we'll just keep our options open thanks.

I'm just making this up but I find it more plausible than the idea that Massengo is on crap money, we've offered crap money again and then feel aggrieved that he hasn't signed for crap money. 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, italian dave said:

If the rumoured offer of no increase is true then not really surprised. I know covid and all that. But he came as a 17 year old with very little first team football anywhere and he’s now a relatively experienced Chanpionship player with 100+ games. 

Depends how much we paid him initially doesn’t it?  If we gave him £10k p.w. as an 18 year old…is he now deserving of more than Andi Weimann for example?  I guess context is everything…I’ve no idea what he’s on or what he’s been offered.  Poor old Andi had to take a 50% cut (we know from Nige it was a cut).  It would not surprise me if we “overpaid” at the time and the reality of the current contract deal is more aligned to his ability / experience / performance levels.  As you say the world has moved on.

I think he’s experiencing what lots of other pros are…existing contract terms might be better than future contract terms.

In this scenario, you can play the field a bit, but he also needs to be reminded that he can’t walk for free in the summer, compensation is due under FA or FIFA regs.

Depends if money is the driver.  I don’t expect him to play for buttons either.  It’s a complex dynamic in a worsening market.  I rate him though, and would be trying to get him to sign, but there are wage structures in place….for a reason.  I think he’s playing well (in the main) at the moment too.

25 minutes ago, DaveF said:

Sorry Dave, this may be a silly question as I have barely slept due to have a 5 day old but who is Smith?

Surely that isn't true!

Smudger….Semenyo (sorry, ooops).

[Mr Popodopolous]

Actually on the topic I doubt Semenyo goes this window.

January could be different and depend on a range of factors. Maybe he'd get a goal or make an appearance or 2 at WC which would indeed make him more desirable, to foreign clubs too.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

I'm working on the assumption that Massengo came here not only because he was offered gametime but also because we offered more than a typical 17 year old gets paid. And in the current climate that pay might not be so disproportionate. 

Even if the no increase rumour were true, City might be saying 'look you're not going to get better elsewhere so sign another deal and if a big club comes in for you we won't stand in your way. Then Massengo's agent/dad says we'll we'll just keep our options open thanks.

I'm just making this up but I find it more plausible than the idea that Massengo is on crap money, we've offered crap money again and then feel aggrieved that he hasn't signed for crap money. 

What he said!

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Redrascal2 said:

I am sure I am wrong but it seems sometimes like we are the only club  fans worried about FFP.

Amended to what might be a more accurate reflection.

Following the Derby situation in particular, I suspect that we are not the only club worried about ffp, as in the club's chief exec, financial officers pr the owner.

Again, and as with Derby's situation, it does seem that there are still many fans that do not properly understand ffp and it's implications, or that are just of the belief that it does not apply to them or that the EFL will not take severe action in the event of a breach

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

If the rumoured offer of no increase is true then not really surprised. I know covid and all that. But he came as a 17 year old with very little first team football anywhere and he’s now a relatively experienced Chanpionship player with 100+ games. 

That's totally believeable and gives one the strong impression he has been overpaid for 4 years.   Will be interesting to see how this all plays out.   

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, mozo said:

If we're going to take Massengo at his word then it begs the question why isn't he signing a contract?

We don’t know but perhaps he sees himself at a bigger club with a new challenge. May be when he signed for us that was what he wanted and now he feels he has sufficient experience to move on.

 It wouldn’t surprise me, however, if he did re-sign as the ambition of the club is plain to see, the squad is tight knit and they all seem to be enjoying their careers. 
Add in the fact that we’ve received no offers then it makes sense for him to stay on. 

[mozo]

11 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

We don’t know but perhaps he sees himself at a bigger club with a new challenge. May be when he signed for us that was what he wanted and now he feels he has sufficient experience to move on.

 It wouldn’t surprise me, however, if he did re-sign as the ambition of the club is plain to see, the squad is tight knit and they all seem to be enjoying their careers. 
Add in the fact that we’ve received no offers then it makes sense for him to stay on. 

And we've literally just signed a goalie to keep him company. What more does he want?!

[REDOXO]

I hope someone comes in for Massengo in the next 48 hours and he leaves. The ongoing Maynardesque contract saga is not only annoying, it undermines team morale. 
 

 

[Simon bristol]

15 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I hope someone comes in for Massengo in the next 48 hours and he leaves. The ongoing Maynardesque contract saga is not only annoying, it undermines team morale. 
 

 

I agree, he hasnt done anything wrong, but leaving like that leaves a bitter after taste. We just need to secure a sell on clause if he does go! Its a shame too cause the supporter base in general have really taken to him and to wind his contract down like that kinda throws that back in peoples faces.

[Lord Northski]

7 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I hope someone comes in for Massengo in the next 48 hours and he leaves. The ongoing Maynardesque contract saga is not only annoying, it undermines team morale. 
 

 

I would counter your point, by suggesting that there’s been speculation about his likely departure for months, and rather than undermine team moral, he’s playing better than he has done since his arrival, I would add that his personal level of commitment at least matches everyone in the team. Plus, the whole team’s playing more entertaining football than it has for years. As such, I would like him to stay.
Football as they say is a game of opinions.

 

[AshtonRobin21]

The most interesting point surrounding Semenyo is that every penny from a sale would be kept by the club. 

As his only professional club, he would have no sell-on % owed to anyone else. 

It's quite rare in today's game that we see this occur. Youth players are transferring at young ages and having sell on fees inserted into their contracts. But this isn't the case for Antoine.

He is more valuable than most would initially realize.

From a FFP viewpoint, he alone could offset the clubs current circumstances. 

However, we need to consider his current value on the pitch, and what he can contibute. 

For me, I would get to January and then consider our next step. His value will either stay the same, or increase in that timeframe. 

[Lew-T]

Every time this thread hots up I worry. Just get the feeling it’s only a matter of time!

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

The most interesting point surrounding Semenyo is that every penny from a sale would be kept by the club. 

As his only professional club, he would have no sell-on % owed to anyone else. 

It's quite rare in today's game that we see this occur. Youth players are transferring at young ages and having sell on fees inserted into their contracts. But this isn't the case for Antoine.

He is more valuable than most would initially realize.

From a FFP viewpoint, he alone could offset the clubs current circumstances. 

However, we need to consider his current value on the pitch, and what he can contibute. 

For me, I would get to January and then consider our next step. His value will either stay the same, or increase in that timeframe. 

As per another post, we don’t need £15m plus (or whatever Antoine is worth) to comply with FFP.

Would be better off finding someone else of a lower value to sell, e.g. a Dasilva or a Pring, if that makes sense.

Just now, Lew-T said:

Every time this thread hots up I worry. Just get the feeling it’s only a matter of time!

You and me both. I honestly don’t expect him to go in this window, but every post that gets added I expect to see “xyz are bidding for him”.

Phew.

[mozo]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As per another post, we don’t need £15m plus (or whatever Antoine is worth) to comply with FFP.

Would be better off finding someone else of a lower value to sell, e.g. a Dasilva or a Pring, if that makes sense.

You and me both. I honestly don’t expect him to go in this window, but every post that gets added I expect to see “xyz are bidding for him”.

Phew.

It's good to hear that from an FFP perspective we don't have to sell, but we might still want the money. In this market 15m would go far.

Like you, I think January might be the time. It might suit everyone involved.

[AshtonRobin21]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As per another post, we don’t need £15m plus (or whatever Antoine is worth) to comply with FFP.

Would be better off finding someone else of a lower value to sell, e.g. a Dasilva or a Pring, if that makes sense.

My main point with Antoine is that all money received is ours to keep. 

Therefore we can subsidize some of the money for FFP purposes, and then bulk up the squad. 

It will be interesting in January, as we could find ourselves in a very strong league position, and his value could be at its highest. 

Personally, I'd love him to stay. But my main concern is that our squad is very thin on numbers. It could force our hand. 

[mozo]

2 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

My main point with Antoine is that all money received is ours to keep. 

Therefore we can subsidize some of the money for FFP purposes, and then bulk up the squad. 

It will be interesting in January, as we could find ourselves in a very strong league position, and his value could be at its highest. 

Personally, I'd love him to stay. But my main concern is that our squad is very thin on numbers. It could force our hand. 

And we've got a ready made replacement in Conway. Suddenly (when fit) Bell comes in as back up.

[Lord Northski]

35 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As per another post, we don’t need £15m plus (or whatever Antoine is worth) to comply with FFP.

Would be better off finding someone else of a lower value to sell, e.g. a Dasilva or a Pring, if that makes sense.

You and me both. I honestly don’t expect him to go in this window, but every post that gets added I expect to see “xyz are bidding for him”.

Phew.

Sorry Dave, I’m a bit blooming late to the party on this, but how much “ish” do we need in the coffers, and by when? 

[Davefevs]

23 minutes ago, AshtonRobin21 said:

My main point with Antoine is that all money received is ours to keep. 

Therefore we can subsidize some of the money for FFP purposes, and then bulk up the squad. 

It will be interesting in January, as we could find ourselves in a very strong league position, and his value could be at its highest. 

Personally, I'd love him to stay. But my main concern is that our squad is very thin on numbers. It could force our hand. 

agree…post mainly for the benefit of others who think we have to sell a “big-un”!

5 minutes ago, Lord Northski said:

Sorry Dave, I’m a bit blooming late to the party on this, but how much “ish” do we need in the coffers, and by when? 

Before the start of the season I estimated we were somewhere in the region of being £2.5m shy of complying.  @Mr Popodopoloushas a slightly wider range, think he’s in the £2-4m ballpark.

We’ve since had a number of “transactions” in and out and I think we’ve brought that deficit down, but not by a huge amount.  We have to comply by the end of this season, although projections submitted in March might prompt action from the EFL.  So we’ve got 6 months to sort things out…we still have January window, hence why no panic.

That deficit might be covered by additional Covid allowances, and therefore we are currently satisfying EFL.  If Stoke and Forest were putting in tens of millions in, surely we can exempt enough?

Hence why I think we are complying, but with a very prudent outlook until the EFL formally confirm the “rules” and also new rules from next season onwards.  We don’t want to do something now that will hamstring us in future.

Its very much guesswork, and I can re-baseline my figs when 21/22’s accounts come out.  They might come out earlier this year by the sounds of it.

 

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, mozo said:

I'm working on the assumption that Massengo came here not only because he was offered gametime but also because we offered more than a typical 17 year old gets paid. And in the current climate that pay might not be so disproportionate. 

Even if the no increase rumour were true, City might be saying 'look you're not going to get better elsewhere so sign another deal and if a big club comes in for you we won't stand in your way. Then Massengo's agent/dad says we'll we'll just keep our options open thanks.

I'm just making this up but I find it more plausible than the idea that Massengo is on crap money, we've offered crap money again and then feel aggrieved that he hasn't signed for crap money. 

Yeah, agree: and I wasn’t suggesting he is necessarily on crap money (I’ve no idea!) just that he probably thinks he’s done enough to be worth a bit more. And that with 100+ games under his belt he might have other options now that would give him both more money and game time.