Football in the 70's

[22A]

OK, I nicked this from the Forest forum, but worth a read.

https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/49448-Proper-Football-in-the-70s-and-80s-before-those-W***ers-at-Sky-killed-it

Interested to read posts such as 

 Originally Posted by virgo 

https://i-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.amppro...67_964x642.jpg

Bristol City v Forest in 1980 - look at the state of that pitch

Aye... I remember that game. Looks like Gerry Gow in that picture with our Viv.

On page 2, they are looking at grounds no longer with us.  Anyone able to identify the ground shown in post #41?

 

[frenchred]

Typical forest really they still hark on back yo when they were good for a few years. Entitled fans just like leeds

[Jim Davey]

Ibrox Park

[Robbored]

Was football ‘better’ in the 70s?  I’m I not so sure but then it was half a century ago and age and memories can fade over time.

Obviously those of us that were around in the 70s were significantly younger than now and thru a young man’s eyes things always seemed fantastic back then - but was it really?

Standing in the EE with its crap view and gruesome bogs didn’t matter. It was just being there amongst like minded souls that made the day so exciting. Somehow the actual style of play was secondary or even tertiary but now it really matters to me. 

Refereeing has definitely changed and some would say for the worse and the Madeleys, Bremners, Gows and Hunters of those days wouldn’t be on the pitch for long now. Have the referees sanitised game so much that they detract from the entertainment of the beautiful game?………

Not for me. I enjoy different elements on a matchday than I did 50+ years ago. It’s just me getting older………

 

 

[TonyTonyTony]

Ahh, the good old days of being crushed on terraces, getting pissed on, listening to racial abuse and witnessing people getting beaten up / knived. The good old days.

OId fart nostalgia at its best.

[1960maaan]

13 hours ago, 22A said:

Anyone able to identify the ground shown in post #41?

Not a clue, but I did see a Youtube clip of the home fans in that corner because West Ham were stood in the middle bit 

[archie andrews]

13 hours ago, 22A said:

OK, I nicked this from the Forest forum, but worth a read.

https://www.forestforum.co.uk/threads/49448-Proper-Football-in-the-70s-and-80s-before-those-W***ers-at-Sky-killed-it

Interested to read posts such as 

 Originally Posted by virgo 

https://i-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.amppro...67_964x642.jpg

Bristol City v Forest in 1980 - look at the state of that pitch

Aye... I remember that game. Looks like Gerry Gow in that picture with our Viv.

On page 2, they are looking at grounds no longer with us.  Anyone able to identify the ground shown in post #41?

 

Ill raise you with terry cooper.... 

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Not a clue, but I did see a Youtube clip of the home fans in that corner because West Ham were stood in the middle bit 

And the only sport that place saw involved greyhounds.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

I think the standard of football in Division 1 from 1976 to 1980 probably equates to today’s Championship, and maybe not even the top half.  The Premier League is off the map by 1970s standards.  This year’s Fulham team could probably have won the 1976 First Division title at a canter.

[1960maaan]

7 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I think the standard of football in Division 1 from 1976 to 1980 probably equates to today’s Championship, and maybe not even the top half.  The Premier League is off the map by 1970s standards.  This year’s Fulham team could probably have won the 1976 First Division title at a canter.

Not on those pitches with what you were allowed to get away with.

Joking aside. You are comparing Apples and Oranges. Give that Liverpool team the pitches of today and a chance to play without being hacked ? Or make Fulham play on a quagmire while having lumps kicked out of them.

You are obviously right in a superficial way, but it's almost a different game in some ways.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

On 23/05/2022 at 23:18, Robbored said:

Was football ‘better’ in the 70s?  I’m I not so sure but then it was half a century ago and age and memories can fade over time.

Obviously those of us that were around in the 70s were significantly younger than now and thru a young man’s eyes things always seemed fantastic back then - but was it really?

Standing in the EE with its crap view and gruesome bogs didn’t matter. It was just being there amongst like minded souls that made the day so exciting. Somehow the actual style of play was secondary or even tertiary but now it really matters to me. 

Refereeing has definitely changed and some would say for the worse and the Madeleys, Bremners, Gows and Hunters of those days wouldn’t be on the pitch for long now. Have the referees sanitised game so much that they detract from the entertainment of the beautiful game?………

Not for me. I enjoy different elements on a matchday than I did 50+ years ago. It’s just me getting older………

 

 

Refereeing has changed for the worse but I'm not sure that they're at fault. Back then they were simply asked to referee according to the laws of the game, but over the years the powers that be have interfered so much that they don't officiate so much in line with the laws of the game but according to the long list of instructions they are given. Offside used to be simple and instant but now the referee doesn't know whether to stick or twist with the number of phases before blowing his whistle, or may not be aware that the right earlobe of the striker was protruding beyond the last defender until 3 minutes later when the linesman deems to put his flag up. Add to that the pressures of close scrutiny of TV cameras and now VAR then it's no wonder standards of dropped. 

[richwwtk]

3 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Refereeing has changed for the worse but I'm not sure that they're at fault. Back then they were simply asked to referee according to the laws of the game, but over the years the powers that be have interfered so much that they don't officiate so much in line with the laws of the game but according to the long list of instructions they are given. Offside used to be simple and instant but now the referee doesn't know whether to stick or twist with the number of phases before blowing his whistle, or may not be aware that the right earlobe of the striker was protruding beyond the last defender until 3 minutes later when the linesman deems to put his flag up. Add to that the pressures of close scrutiny of TV cameras and now VAR then it's no wonder standards of dropped. 

I very much doubt that referees themselves have got worse, if anything they will be a lot better given improved fitness etc.

I would agree that the constant media scrutiny has made their job much harder and more likely to show up errors of judgement etc.

I also agree about the instructions they are given, but still think it's the media coverage that is the main factor at play.

And VAR is just a joke in it's current form. Not convinced it will ever work particularly well for Football. It's great for tennis and cricket but Football is a very different beast and does not have the natural breaks in play, or the clear cut out/in type decisions for video replays to improve matters (crossing the goal line decisions aside).

[1960maaan]

4 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

 I very much doubt that referees themselves have got worse, if anything they will be a lot better given improved fitness etc.

I would agree that the constant media scrutiny has made their job much harder and more likely to show up errors of judgement etc.

I also agree about the instructions they are given, but still think it's the media coverage that is the main factor at play.

And VAR is just a joke in it's current form. Not convinced it will ever work particularly well for Football. It's great for tennis and cricket but Football is a very different beast and does not have the natural breaks in play, or the clear cut out/in type decisions for video replays to improve matters (crossing the goal line decisions aside).

It should be impossible to have got worse . As you say fitness, but just having the one job to focus on and being able to interact with lawmakers and players in a full time environment should make things better. 

Going back pre-Sky decisions were looked at, big talking points discussed , but now everything is looked at in slow motion. Things that weren't seen first time around , by anyone, get picked apart to see if it could be used to blame someone for something .
The rules/laws are changed on a regular basis, with seemingly no thought, then changed again when they are found not to work. Which always makes the Ref seem at fault. 

One thing I slightly disagree with is VAR.
Firstly, I don't like it. In the Prem it isn't fit for purpose , but the last Women's World Cup, the Mens World Cup and many Foreign games show it can work with common sense. When I've seen games from around the World the decisions seem quicker and they don't try and judge it to the last blade of grass. It comes down to the very poor decisions ( or non decisions ) made away from the game. You can see the same type of incident over two games with completely different decisions given by the VAR Refs, the exact thing they were brought in to stop. 

It's always going to be hard to implement in a fast moving game, but until the TV Refs are improved it's more trouble than it's worth

[richwwtk]

48 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

One thing I slightly disagree with is VAR.
Firstly, I don't like it. In the Prem it isn't fit for purpose , but the last Women's World Cup, the Mens World Cup and many Foreign games show it can work with common sense. When I've seen games from around the World the decisions seem quicker and they don't try and judge it to the last blade of grass. It comes down to the very poor decisions ( or non decisions ) made away from the game. You can see the same type of incident over two games with completely different decisions given by the VAR Refs, the exact thing they were brought in to stop.

Even if it is made to work with common sense it still detracts from the game. One of the joys of the sport, as everybody knows, is the celebration when you score. These days in the big matches you almost have to wait until you are informed if it is going to VAR or not, that thought is already in fans minds at the top level and will only grow over time. To my mind it spoils it completely.

Also, football historically has thrived on bad decisions. It's part of the history and folklore of the game. At the highest level a lovely example is the 'Hand of God'. I know it went against England, but that is irrelevant. It is one of the biggest moments in our history, it is also the match that probably cemented Maradona as one of the all time greats. In the next World Cup it would be disallowed, maybe a sending off for Maradona and would be forgotten in a couple of years. Where's the fun in that? You would also have never had the Freddie Sears Ghost Goal, a great moment from our recentish history.

I am all for a lot of things in modern football. The decline in hooliganism, the changes to the game to allow talent to flourish ahead of the cloggers, the improved facilities around stadiums etc., but I will always be against video refereeing. It takes half the joy out of it for me.

[1960maaan]

10 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

Even if it is made to work with common sense it still detracts from the game. One of the joys of the sport, as everybody knows, is the celebration when you score. These days in the big matches you almost have to wait until you are informed if it is going to VAR or not, that thought is already in fans minds at the top level and will only grow over time. To my mind it spoils it completely.

Also, football historically has thrived on bad decisions. It's part of the history and folklore of the game. At the highest level a lovely example is the 'Hand of God'. I know it went against England, but that is irrelevant. It is one of the biggest moments in our history, it is also the match that probably cemented Maradona as one of the all time greats. In the next World Cup it would be disallowed, maybe a sending off for Maradona and would be forgotten in a couple of years. Where's the fun in that? You would also have never had the Freddie Sears Ghost Goal, a great moment from our recentish history.

I am all for a lot of things in modern football. The decline in hooliganism, the changes to the game to allow talent to flourish ahead of the cloggers, the improved facilities around stadiums etc., but I will always be against video refereeing. It takes half the joy out of it for me.

While I agree about VAR ruining the instant high while every goal is checked, I think there is a need for obvious cheating or mistakes to be spotted. I doubt Maradonna would have even been booked back then, and yes the Linesman should have seen it, but it is blatant cheating. It also gives a back up to dubious Refs, not so many these days, unless you're Italian I guess. There have been some real dodgy decisions , Schumacher Vs Germany, Koemann Vs England, personally I'd rather see assaults and cheating punished. 
What I don't like is the petty nature of some decisions and the clunky slowing down of the game.  I think the idea is right, the implementation isn't. Goaline tech is pretty good, though how VAR missed that goal against Villa a year ago is a disgrace.  The countless watching and rewatching of incidents is awful . If you aren't sure after 2 looks, move on. 

You don't like it now, wait until they introduce it in the Championship, bound to be the poor relation of the Prem system. It has all the hallmarks of a complete disaster.

[spudski]

 'Better'...to partake in, or watch?

All sport is gradually moving in a direction of ' perfection'. Technically, fitness, equipment etc etc. All pushing in a direction of achieving the aim of the sport in a more perfect way.

It changes quickly. Each sport is pretty much uncomparable from generation to generation. 

With football...pitch, ball, equipment, fitness, nutrition, analysis, training, coaching, technical data, understanding of tactics, to name a few....it's ever changing. 

What happens as sport becomes more perfect, is that it nullifies itself. 

'perfection' leads to it being 'easier' and more boring. It's finding a balance of imperfection in a sport that makes it fun and exciting.

Looking across all sports, in general, imo, sport was at its most fun and entertaining to partake in and watch was in the 70s.

The equipment, technical and fitness levels reached a level of 'imperfection' that made it most enjoyable in all aspects.

Whether it ball sports, motor sports etc.

 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

11 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Not on those pitches with what you were allowed to get away with.

Joking aside. You are comparing Apples and Oranges. Give that Liverpool team the pitches of today and a chance to play without being hacked ? Or make Fulham play on a quagmire while having lumps kicked out of them.

You are obviously right in a superficial way, but it's almost a different game in some ways.

Yes you’re right in many ways, but there are several indicators of the difference in standards.  For instance, there were no overseas internationals playing in the top division in the 1970s.  Players from the Scottish league routinely transferred to the top division in England and were often highly successful.  It was almost unheard of for players outside the top division to be called up for internationals. In the Premier League we already effectively have a Super League.

I’ve spent this season watching my son’s youth side playing a standard of football which was unthinkable when I was at school.  In that sense you’re right, it’s almost a different game.