Finances 21/22

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Only £6m over- have we really improved/are we really set to improve our position by £11-12m in a year?

That’s based on those OOC not signing and amortisation becoming tiny, if we only sign freebies.  All subject to change.

I reckon the impairment is Palmer, brought forward into last year.

[chinapig]

1 minute ago, Dynamite Red said:

You forgot Scott Parker. Unfortunately some fans have no concept of reality. 

Ah yes, another man who was sacked for complaining he wasn't given more money to spend. So it's between him and Wilder then.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That’s based on those OOC not signing and amortisation becoming tiny, if we only sign freebies.  All subject to change.

I reckon the impairment is Palmer, brought forward into last year.

Could be Palmer yep, good shout. Maybe the bulk Palmer and the remainder for Moore and Bakinson.

Won't amortisation still be £6-7m this season?

Your other post, a return to event and a virtual end of furlough will account for some of the costs. A bit more depreciation and interest too probably.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could be Palmer yep, good shout. Maybe the bulk Palmer and the remainder for Moore and Bakinson.

Won't amortisation still be £6-7m this season?

Moore is still our player, so suspect not him.  Bakinson had such little asset value left it could be a smidge of that, assuming Wednesday paid bugger all.

Amortisation - yep, about £6m.

[Dynamite Red]

Who needs an Autumn budget, when we have our own Office for Budget Responsibility in @Mr Popodopolous @Davefevs 

Tough times for the economy, tough times for Bristol City.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Dynamite Red

[Mr Chappers]

Good to see no financial penalties. Finances and first team in harmony!

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

96k/week slashed from wages. 

Just goes to show how much fun LJ and MA had. 

Yep, this.

This is a long, tough old road.

Clearly some think Pearson should still be doing better but effectively since he took over 18 months ago he’s been able to spend just one significant fee (Atkinson) & bring in two proven free transfers that probably had other suitors (James & Naismith) but when that’s compared to the scattergun approach to transfer business of LJ under Train Guy, it is night & day.

[Kid in the Riot]

We're still losing £500k a week and total losses now stand at an eye-watering £198m.

 

[Tom]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Good announcement article as well. Easy to understand and highlights the main points.

I understand that a finance specific interview with Richard Gould will be published this week in order to further explain to those fans who are not currently wallpapering their house with copies of our accounts.

As I understand above, there was certainly no shortage of wallpaper paste. At least that's what I assume that was....

 

[maxjak]

1 hour ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

This is all true but he could coach them better. An argument for another time though.

Obviously we have no money to spaff on playing staff and we are still operating with huge losses. Any ambitions outside of just remaining in this league need to be seriously tempered, however just "remaining" in the championship is not sustainable without the yearly bailout by SL.

The club probably needs to start looking at alternate investment if the club is to progress. 

As Pearson has stated many times ?    ..........."I Don't' Coach, I manage".  But then of course, he does appoint the coaches.

[DaveInSA]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

It’s more people who really thought Dyche/Wilder/Edwards would’ve answered the job offer with “oh yes, I’d love to take this job with a mediocre squad and absolutely no money, not even for loans. Count me in”

This in spades.

I didn't realise HOW BAD IT WAS.

Reading this thread should put the willies up everyone. We need to sell our key assets to be within FFP next year. This, coupled with 11 players being OOC at the end of the season (some of them senior pros) means that season 23/24 will be very "interesting".

If we're still in the Championship at the end of season 24 that will be a massive achievement. 

[BTRFTG]

12 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

We're still losing £500k a week and total losses now stand at an eye-watering £198m.

 

And there are still those out there who talk of SL's 'Cash Cow'.

[And Its Smith]

It’s no surprise at all that we are okay from an FFP point. If we weren’t then we would have sold more in the summer. 

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yep, this.

This is a long, tough old road.

Clearly some think Pearson should still be doing better but effectively since he took over 18 months ago he’s been able to spend just one significant fee (Atkinson) & bring in two proven free transfers that probably had other suitors (James & Naismith) but when that’s compared to the scattergun approach to transfer business of LJ under Train Guy, it is night & day.

The Naismith addition wouldn’t be on these accounts. That’ll be on next years. 
On this years accounts, the player additions totalling contracts of £2.3m would be James, King, Atkinson, Tanner & Klose. 
On next years accounts, player contract wise, the only biggies we really have coming off is O’Dowda & Palmer. With Naismith, Wilson, Sykes & Bajic being added (plus anything in Jan?)

We’re still gonna be paying the big Ashton contracts into next years accounts too (Kalas, Bentley, Wells, Dasilva, Martin), so it’s still not gonna be pretty until the following year. 

[maxjak]

7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

And there are still those out there who talk of SL's 'Cash Cow'.

I get all of this....but excuse my ignorance, what is - Creditors : Amounts falling due after more than one year (£91,803,147)  if someone can explain this aspect of our finances, I would be grateful?

[And Its Smith]

What we do have coming up though is £15m+ for Scott, who will no doubt leave by end July. Semenyo possibly as well. 

[Dredd]

@Davefevs

Should the worst happen and we drop into league one and manage to bounce straight back up. What happens to the FFP position then?

[GrahamC]

15 minutes ago, Harry said:

The Naismith addition wouldn’t be on these accounts. That’ll be on next years. 
On this years accounts, the player additions totalling contracts of £2.3m would be James, King, Atkinson, Tanner & Klose. 
On next years accounts, player contract wise, the only biggies we really have coming off is O’Dowda & Palmer. With Naismith, Wilson, Sykes & Bajic being added (plus anything in Jan?)

We’re still gonna be paying the big Ashton contracts into next years accounts too (Kalas, Bentley, Wells, Dasilva, Martin), so it’s still not gonna be pretty until the following year. 

True.

End of this season provides the best opportunity for change, from memory Bentley, O’Leary, Kalas, Klose, Moore, Baker, Vyner, Dasilva, Massengo, King, Wells & Martin all out of contract.

Edited November 17, 2022 by GrahamC

[Red Billy]

2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

In my head, I sang that to the tune of 12 days of Christmas.

So thanks for that. That'll be stuck in my head for the rest of the evening. 

Four Colin Cramb, three Dave Seals, two Ian Bairds and a Scott Partridge at the city.  I’ll get my coat  

[Clevedon Red]

 

[Kid in the Riot]

36 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

This in spades.

I didn't realise HOW BAD IT WAS.

Reading this thread should put the willies up everyone. We need to sell our key assets to be within FFP next year. This, coupled with 11 players being OOC at the end of the season (some of them senior pros) means that season 23/24 will be very "interesting".

If we're still in the Championship at the end of season 24 that will be a massive achievement. 

We won't breach FFP. Whilst I agree it looks bad, we are far from the only C'ship club in this position. Be plenty of other clubs releasing horror-show accounts for this financial year.

[cidercity1987]

36 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I get all of this....but excuse my ignorance, what is - Creditors : Amounts falling due after more than one year (£91,803,147)  if someone can explain this aspect of our finances, I would be grateful?

Mainly owed to Pula Sport/Lansdown but £8m owed to the football league for a Covid loan 

[BTRFTG]

28 minutes ago, maxjak said:

I get all of this....but excuse my ignorance, what is - Creditors : Amounts falling due after more than one year (£91,803,147)  if someone can explain this aspect of our finances, I would be grateful?

Exactly as described.

Any long term loans, mortgages, debts but may also include shareholder capital that is to be repaid beyond 12 months.

In theory when you buy a share in a company at its 'issue price' that's what it's worth should it ever need to be repaid.  You often pay more than issue price and that's share premium (variable) and is at risk, as is share capital itself should the company go belly up. SL's regularly turned his 'loans' (have a repayment date and attract interest,) to 'share capital' (has no fixed repayment date and attracts dividends normally only if there's profit to pay them.) Gets City out of the P&S/FFP hole.

[Sleepy1968]

34 minutes ago, Clevedon Red said:

 

Plug for ya'll to listen to The Price of Football. Entertaining and informative. I listen on Podbean, but I guess it's available on Spotify et al.

[chinapig]

16 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Plug for ya'll to listen to The Price of Football. Entertaining and informative. I listen on Podbean, but I guess it's available on Spotify et al.

Yep, I use Spotify to listen to it. I know there are others on here who are regular listeners and I endorse your recommendation.

Kieran Maguire and Kevin Day make for an informative and entertaining team.

[Tim Monaghan]

2 hours ago, Mr Chappers said:

Good to see no financial penalties. Finances and first team in harmony!

How has this post not got more likes?

[Rob k]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

The Naismith addition wouldn’t be on these accounts. That’ll be on next years. 
On this years accounts, the player additions totalling contracts of £2.3m would be James, King, Atkinson, Tanner & Klose. 
On next years accounts, player contract wise, the only biggies we really have coming off is O’Dowda & Palmer. With Naismith, Wilson, Sykes & Bajic being added (plus anything in Jan?)

We’re still gonna be paying the big Ashton contracts into next years accounts too (Kalas, Bentley, Wells, Dasilva, Martin), so it’s still not gonna be pretty until the following year. 

So we’re still paying big wages then - that makes those 5 players on an average of 9k and I’m certain Tanner won’t be on anywhere near that 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

This in spades.

I didn't realise HOW BAD IT WAS.

Reading this thread should put the willies up everyone. We need to sell our key assets to be within FFP next year. This, coupled with 11 players being OOC at the end of the season (some of them senior pros) means that season 23/24 will be very "interesting".

If we're still in the Championship at the end of season 24 that will be a massive achievement. 

It is bad, but the big figure missing from the accounts (legitimately missing) is how much we’ve offset the losses by using Covid allowances, e.g. lost revenue due to no crowds, lost transfer income (“add-backs”).

I’m taking the notes into the accounts to take it that these allowances are significant enough to cover the current FFP cycle’s (to May 2023) gap to meet compliance.  We know the minimum is £2.5m + £5m (£5m + £5m halved).  City might argue there was even more lost revenue from cancelled gigs etc.

1 hour ago, Dredd said:

@Davefevs

Should the worst happen and we drop into league one and manage to bounce straight back up. What happens to the FFP position then?

We would fall into SCMP rules:

https://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php

which is effectively wages as a percentage of turnover.  The only leeway is down to players signed under historic contracts.

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

True.

End of this season provides the best opportunity for change, from memory Bentley, O’Leary, Kalas, Klose, Moore, Baker, Vyner, Dasilva, Massengo, King, Wells & Martin all out of contract.

Yep, although Harry is saying we won’t see those wages off of the accounts until the season after’s accounts, next season’s “budgets” will be based on those players not being here (unless they re-sign).

38 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

Plug for ya'll to listen to The Price of Football. Entertaining and informative. I listen on Podbean, but I guess it's available on Spotify et al.

Haven’t listened for a few weeks, but it’s good value / entertaining.

[Merrick's Marvels]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

True.

End of this season provides the best opportunity for change, from memory Bentley, O’Leary, Kalas, Klose, Moore, Baker, Vyner, Dasilva, Massengo, King, Wells & Martin all out of contract.

Plus Baker, assuming we're still paying him until next June.

We have option of 1 year extension on O'Leary and Vyner - likely to do so, based on current form.

Same option with Semenyo which we'll obviously take up, if only to flog him to the highest bidder asap.

Think there's plenty of the reserve team also ooc - Morton, Owura Edwards, Wiles-Richards, Casa-Grande, James Taylor, Araoye, Owers, Kadji, Taylor-Clarke, yer man Palmer-Houlden. 1 year options on Morton and Edwards - can't imagine we'll take up either.   

Pearson to find replacements for tuppence ha'penny whilst trying to keep us safe from relegation in the most competitive league in the world.