FBC Podcast: STOKE [H] the verdict .... play offs not out of the question!

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

20 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Dave with all due respect, your continued support, or devil's advocate stuff about Nige is beginning to wear really thin. 

 

@Davefevs

So it's not just me, Dave. You and I have been having this debate since last season. Still no progress, still groundhog day as I've said. And it's fact that strong criticism of Nige often results in belittling the poster on here as @exAtyeoMax put it so well in a response to you.

Matt Withers- who I always read and invariably agree with his balanced reports in the EP wrote the following this a.m. This is an excerpt but his whole piece makes painful reading mainly because it's true.

The bit about anger or apathy is the new direction of travel. For me , it's apathy as a loss doesn't affect me anywhere near as much as it always did. I really don't see how NP has remained in the job this long and I really don't see that SL is that bothered anyway so why should I be? I'm certainly not spending any more cash in something where the love and passion just got drained away.

 

 

Matt Withers:

"We created enough chances to get something out of the game but in truth I was bored in the second-half and after Stoke scored what was to be the winner, I never felt that we would get anything. I spoke to three mates after the game all of whom said that they will not be renewing their season tickets next year as they are falling out of love of watching City.

The result sees us drop to 18th place, three points above the relegation places. At the halfway stage of the season, we are on 27 points, exactly the same as this stage last season. What progress have we made where it matters most, on the pitch and with results?

We know that there is likely to be a huge turnaround of players in the summer, with so many out of contract but can Pearson be trusted to regenerate the squad? Does he even want to? When I hear him talking about not caring what we make of his views of the squad and constantly saying we are where we are and it is what it is, I get so angry.

Show me that it matters to you Nigel, show me that you are up for the fight and have the energy and drive to get this club where we want it to be."

[Davefevs]

22 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Dave with all due respect, your continued support, or devil's advocate stuff about Nige is beginning to wear really thin. 

Judge him on players? 

Tanner, fee, bit part, seemingly frozen out

Atkinson, fee, seemingly frozen out. 

Kane Wilson, fee, frozen out before injury 

I seem to recall we've paid a fee for Ewan Clark too. 

We've also worked some bosman magic. 

However his signings are where?? 

We've had Danny Simpson, epoch defining fail. 

Duncan Idehen, come through, play, get bombed out

Tim Klose, went from astute signing to wreck within 6 months. 

Sykes in and out like a yo yo before injury 

Bajic 1,appearance after being injured, nothing of note since. 

Naismith is a highlight 

King and James are disasters in many eyes. 

We're playing a knackered cm as Cb, a striker as a rwb, something he's done before see Sam Bell etc

We've sidelined talent, cutting our noses to spite our faces. Because contract, or fall out or 'trust' . (LJ did that spiel after we got dicked at Preston and blamed Maggers for everything despite being thrown to the wolves, sound familiar??) 

The football is shit, one of the reasons I've stopped watching, we're tactically naive after nearly 3 years and still get taken apart by basics. 

Yet still here we are trying to defend him. 

The impressive progression of young players has stopped or reversrd massively in some cases and were at the GJ / LJ tombola stage of picking the team. 

The radio interview was unbelievable. 

Unless a miracle happens, I'd venture NP not long before the chop. Someone else who ever that is will have to finish his work, because Pearson isnt currently it. 

 

 

So what if it is wearing thin for you.  I don’t like what stuff I read from plenty of posters at times either, it’s why I post responses and debate it.  That’s what the forum is for.  There are plenty of things Nige does that I wouldn’t do, but like others who support what Nige is doing, others fail to read that and it’s thrown back at us as “the Nige cult” or stuff like that.  I wish people would actually read stuff properly.  I wouldn’t be playing Andy King at CB, but for those of you out there who focus on results only we’ve won 1 drew 1 and lost 1 of our last 3, with him playing there.  I think the discussion re playing him there is much more nuanced than that.  As for the post match interview, I‘ve listened 3 or 4 times now, read the written media interview too…and I don’t think it’s as bad as people’s initial reactions to it.  Would I have said it, probably not.  But I’m a totally different character to Nigel Pearson.  Anyone know what Rob Atkinson thinks?

4 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Did we pay a fee or not?

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/clark-signs-for-the-robins/

Not nonsense then.

Quelle surprise another  'correction' that's incorrect.

Will take your 2 year correction, just feels like 3   given the same old defence issues, that sorted briefly at the end of last year with Robbie Cundy and Duncan in the side. that's on me

 

 

 

Yes, we played a nominal fee, we are talking less than an “Arnold Garita punt” as a bit of goodwill to Oxford City who are outside the EPPP compo scheme.  When we did similar with Rory Holden from Ireland we were talking £25k type amount.

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Atkinson & Tanner cost less than £2m combined & as the former was the vast majority of that, we have no idea how that specific deal is structured.

So the £1.6m could be a £1m flat fee, rest based on appearances, for instance.

People can rightly criticise Pearson for not playing him, but he’s spent very little.

From the accounts we paid £1,875,000 plus 5% transfer levy for Tanner and Atkinson, so if reports are true we effectively paid £1.6m for Atkinson and £275k for Tanner.  That would have been the base fee, regardless of whether staged payments or not.  Additional things like appearance based bonus will be on top of that.  As it stands from the accounts, the club recognise just £108,872 of contingent liabilities that might fall due this season for the WHOLE squad.  That would mean if Atkinson was due to reach 50 app milestone, Oxford could be in line for some of that, if it related to him.  But as you’ll see it’s a tiny total amount, so quite possible Atkinson has no appearance clause linked to his signing, or a small amount.

3 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I just think that it is never good when a player gets thrown under the bus. Consider Pring, why did he have to be on the naughty step for months when DaSilva has hardly beat his man all season.

I wonder if King will on the naughty step now? No because he is one of the favourites and is allowed to make mistakes that are not tolerated in others.

To me it feels like a toxic environment with a scapegoat mentality. Bottom line is, we are worse off than this time last year. Our problems are largely the same as last year and that has to go down to management.

I agree, and I think the only player who’s genuinely been thrown under the bus (lazy term imho) is Tyreeq Bakinson.  And it seems that Nige gave him several chances before reaching the decision to launch the attack he did.  I don’t think Rob or Cam have been thrown under the bus.  They’ve just been told they need to do better than others ahead of them.

2 hours ago, 2015 said:

I might be in the minority but I think there has been a MAJOR overreaction to the BBC interview with NP. No wonder this club has always been a soft touch

Me too.  As above it’s not how I would’ve played it, but I’m different to Nige.  Out of interest why didn’t Ali Durden ask about George Tanner?  That to me was the bigger omission, someone who started the previous game.  Vyner deserved to come back into the squad, so someone had to drop out.  Dasilva came back in too, nobody querying Kadji dropping out.

2 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Spot on.

We wanted to see the back of the BCFC cosy club for a long time and maybe this is Pearson’s way of making this happen.

it could be he wants to see how people respond to a good kick up the arse and the ones who respond well will get his undying trust.  Maybe Andy King has been in that position in the past and has passed the test.

Hopefully we’ll benefit from that in the long term, but not looking great in the short term though, but can’t see what orher options we have.

I know, but it seems we don’t like it now it’s being executed.

2 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

People are more than aware of the job taken on 

People are judging on what they are seeing, there's calls all over the shop for change.

Sometimes the one that starts change doesn't get to finish it, and those giving a complete free pass are enabling this.

Terms like 'bedwettters' are thrown like confetti as those with narrow blinkers on seem to forgive the unforgivable and inexcusable time and time again.

People aren't reactionary, they've had enough same shit different day, excused in the name of progress, when they see none

 

I agree.  Why do you think I’ve said countless times that I suspect it will be someone else that comes in and benefits from the groundwork that Nige has done / is doing.  We are still in a mess.  We aren’t finished yet.  We are still making £28m losses with full attendances / concerts back.  I don’t think any Nige supporters are giving him a “complete free pass” btw.

Narrow blinkers analogy suggests that you can actually see quite a lot!  Just saying

And for those of you that have had enough, keep voicing it if that’s the way you feel.  You might get your way, hopefully for you it’s soon.  For me, I want him to continue the rebuild he’s undertaking.

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

@Davefevs

So it's not just me, Dave. You and I have been having this debate since last season. Still no progress, still groundhog day as I've said. And it's fact that strong criticism of Nige often results in belittling the poster on here as @exAtyeoMax put it so well in a response to you.

Matt Withers- who I always read and invariably agree with his balanced reports in the EP wrote the following this a.m. This is an excerpt but his whole piece makes painful reading mainly because it's true.

The bit about anger or apathy is the new direction of travel. For me , it's apathy as a loss doesn't affect me anywhere near as much as it always did. I really don't see how NP has remained in the job this long and I really don't see that SL is that bothered anyway so why should I be? I'm certainly not spending any more cash in something where the love and passion just got drained away.

 

 

Matt Withers:

"We created enough chances to get something out of the game but in truth I was bored in the second-half and after Stoke scored what was to be the winner, I never felt that we would get anything. I spoke to three mates after the game all of whom said that they will not be renewing their season tickets next year as they are falling out of love of watching City.

The result sees us drop to 18th place, three points above the relegation places. At the halfway stage of the season, we are on 27 points, exactly the same as this stage last season. What progress have we made where it matters most, on the pitch and with results?

We know that there is likely to be a huge turnaround of players in the summer, with so many out of contract but can Pearson be trusted to regenerate the squad? Does he even want to? When I hear him talking about not caring what we make of his views of the squad and constantly saying we are where we are and it is what it is, I get so angry.

Show me that it matters to you Nigel, show me that you are up for the fight and have the energy and drive to get this club where we want it to be."

Who has belittled anyone?  I don’t believe @exAtyeoMaxhas replied to me?  Do you mean @Tafkarmlf?  Don’t think you’ll find I’ve belittled them, because I’ll  think you’ll find today is the first time I’ve replied to them in months.  They will confirm this. You can read my responses above (unless you are psychic!).  So again, stop spreading crap.  You’re the first to have a go when you think you’ve been misrepresented.  We disagree about Nige, so effing what.

I like Matt’s articles too.  But what is the relevance, apart from his current view seems to match yours?  I’ve been debating with him on twitter this morning.  He started his article with the fact that he was livid with Nige’s interview.  I can’t believe anyone would be “livid” fwiw.

Part of me hopes you all get your way, and Nige goes.  I think it will be a big shame if he goes, certainly at a time when we are looking for a new CEO and have just appointed Tins into a position where all three seem very aligned.  But hey ho, that’s life.

 

 

 

[Sir Geoff]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So what if it is wearing thin for you.  I don’t like what stuff I read from plenty of posters at times either, it’s why I post responses and debate it.  That’s what the forum is for.  There are plenty of things Nige does that I wouldn’t do, but like others who support what Nige is doing, others fail to read that and it’s thrown back at us as “the Nige cult” or stuff like that.  I wish people would actually read stuff properly.  I wouldn’t be playing Andy King at CB, but for those of you out there who focus on results only we’ve won 1 drew 1 and lost 1 of our last 3, with him playing there.  I think the discussion re playing him there is much more nuanced than that.  As for the post match interview, I‘ve listened 3 or 4 times now, read the written media interview too…and I don’t think it’s as bad as people’s initial reactions to it.  Would I have said it, probably not.  But I’m a totally different character to Nigel Pearson.  Anyone know what Rob Atkinson thinks?

Yes, we played a nominal fee, we are talking less than an “Arnold Garita punt” as a bit of goodwill to Oxford City who are outside the EPPP compo scheme.  When we did similar with Rory Holden from Ireland we were talking £25k type amount.

From the accounts we paid £1,875,000 plus 5% transfer levy for Tanner and Atkinson, so if reports are true we effectively paid £1.6m for Atkinson and £275k for Tanner.  That would have been the base fee, regardless of whether staged payments or not.  Additional things like appearance based bonus will be on top of that.  As it stands from the accounts, the club recognise just £108,872 of contingent liabilities that might fall due this season for the WHOLE squad.  That would mean if Atkinson was due to reach 50 app milestone, Oxford could be in line for some of that, if it related to him.  But as you’ll see it’s a tiny total amount, so quite possible Atkinson has no appearance clause linked to his signing, or a small amount.

I agree, and I think the only player who’s genuinely been thrown under the bus (lazy term imho) is Tyreeq Bakinson.  And it seems that Nige gave him several chances before reaching the decision to launch the attack he did.  I don’t think Rob or Cam have been thrown under the bus.  They’ve just been told they need to do better than others ahead of them.

Me too.  As above it’s not how I would’ve played it, but I’m different to Nige.  Out of interest why didn’t Ali Durden ask about George Tanner?  That to me was the bigger omission, someone who started the previous game.  Vyner deserved to come back into the squad, so someone had to drop out.  Dasilva came back in too, nobody querying Kadji dropping out.

I know, but it seems we don’t like it now it’s being executed.

I agree.  Why do you think I’ve said countless times that I suspect it will be someone else that comes in and benefits from the groundwork that Nige has done / is doing.  We are still in a mess.  We aren’t finished yet.  We are still making £28m losses with full attendances / concerts back.  I don’t think any Nige supporters are giving him a “complete free pass” btw.

Narrow blinkers analogy suggests that you can actually see quite a lot!  Just saying

And for those of you that have had enough, keep voicing it if that’s the way you feel.  You might get your way, hopefully for you it’s soon.  For me, I want him to continue the rebuild he’s undertaking.

Who has belittled anyone?  I don’t believe @exAtyeoMaxhas replied to me?  Do you mean @Tafkarmlf?  Don’t think you’ll find I’ve belittled them, because I’ll  think you’ll find today is the first time I’ve replied to them in months.  They will confirm this. You can read my responses above (unless you are psychic!).  So again, stop spreading crap.  You’re the first to have a go when you think you’ve been misrepresented.  We disagree about Nige, so effing what.

I like Matt’s articles too.  But what is the relevance, apart from his current view seems to match yours?  I’ve been debating with him on twitter this morning.  He started his article with the fact that he was livid with Nige’s interview.  I can’t believe anyone would be “livid” fwiw.

Part of me hopes you all get your way, and Nige goes.  I think it will be a big shame if he goes, certainly at a time when we are looking for a new CEO and have just appointed Tins into a position where all three seem very aligned.  But hey ho, that’s life.

 

 

 

If you haven't listened yet, Ali Durden is a guest on 3 peeps. His take on the interview is in contrast to many on here.

[Sir Geoff]

3 hours ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Oh right, makes it all the better then?

Oddly Nige makes no mention of it here just shoehorned because he's brought two further right sided players which he's not utilised recently,  and reverting a RB, previous CB, previous RB, previous CB, and previous DM there, that's before getting to strikers, Midfield and Wingers in the same slot.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/nigel-pearson-bristol-city-tanner-7566344?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

Not hauled over the coals, for no reason, there's literally no plan at all. If someone wants a game they must play in a brand new position to them is madness matey 

 

 

 

As he said, It didn't do Alex Scott any harm last year. Countless examples of it working over the years not just at BCFC but many, many other clubs too. No harm in Players being flexible and able to play a variety of positions, particularly defenders.

[Davefevs]

50 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

If you haven't listened yet, Ali Durden is a guest on 3 peeps. His take on the interview is in contrast to many on here.

Ta, will listen whilst doing the ironing.

[exAtyeoMax]

58 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So what if it is wearing thin for you.  I don’t like what stuff I read from plenty of posters at times either, it’s why I post responses and debate it.  That’s what the forum is for.  There are plenty of things Nige does that I wouldn’t do, but like others who support what Nige is doing, others fail to read that and it’s thrown back at us as “the Nige cult” or stuff like that.  I wish people would actually read stuff properly.  I wouldn’t be playing Andy King at CB, but for those of you out there who focus on results only we’ve won 1 drew 1 and lost 1 of our last 3, with him playing there.  I think the discussion re playing him there is much more nuanced than that.  As for the post match interview, I‘ve listened 3 or 4 times now, read the written media interview too…and I don’t think it’s as bad as people’s initial reactions to it.  Would I have said it, probably not.  But I’m a totally different character to Nigel Pearson.  Anyone know what Rob Atkinson thinks?

Yes, we played a nominal fee, we are talking less than an “Arnold Garita punt” as a bit of goodwill to Oxford City who are outside the EPPP compo scheme.  When we did similar with Rory Holden from Ireland we were talking £25k type amount.

From the accounts we paid £1,875,000 plus 5% transfer levy for Tanner and Atkinson, so if reports are true we effectively paid £1.6m for Atkinson and £275k for Tanner.  That would have been the base fee, regardless of whether staged payments or not.  Additional things like appearance based bonus will be on top of that.  As it stands from the accounts, the club recognise just £108,872 of contingent liabilities that might fall due this season for the WHOLE squad.  That would mean if Atkinson was due to reach 50 app milestone, Oxford could be in line for some of that, if it related to him.  But as you’ll see it’s a tiny total amount, so quite possible Atkinson has no appearance clause linked to his signing, or a small amount.

I agree, and I think the only player who’s genuinely been thrown under the bus (lazy term imho) is Tyreeq Bakinson.  And it seems that Nige gave him several chances before reaching the decision to launch the attack he did.  I don’t think Rob or Cam have been thrown under the bus.  They’ve just been told they need to do better than others ahead of them.

Me too.  As above it’s not how I would’ve played it, but I’m different to Nige.  Out of interest why didn’t Ali Durden ask about George Tanner?  That to me was the bigger omission, someone who started the previous game.  Vyner deserved to come back into the squad, so someone had to drop out.  Dasilva came back in too, nobody querying Kadji dropping out.

I know, but it seems we don’t like it now it’s being executed.

I agree.  Why do you think I’ve said countless times that I suspect it will be someone else that comes in and benefits from the groundwork that Nige has done / is doing.  We are still in a mess.  We aren’t finished yet.  We are still making £28m losses with full attendances / concerts back.  I don’t think any Nige supporters are giving him a “complete free pass” btw.

Narrow blinkers analogy suggests that you can actually see quite a lot!  Just saying

And for those of you that have had enough, keep voicing it if that’s the way you feel.  You might get your way, hopefully for you it’s soon.  For me, I want him to continue the rebuild he’s undertaking.

Who has belittled anyone?  I don’t believe @exAtyeoMaxhas replied to me?  Do you mean @Tafkarmlf?  Don’t think you’ll find I’ve belittled them, because I’ll  think you’ll find today is the first time I’ve replied to them in months.  They will confirm this. You can read my responses above (unless you are psychic!).  So again, stop spreading crap.  You’re the first to have a go when you think you’ve been misrepresented.  We disagree about Nige, so effing what.

I like Matt’s articles too.  But what is the relevance, apart from his current view seems to match yours?  I’ve been debating with him on twitter this morning.  He started his article with the fact that he was livid with Nige’s interview.  I can’t believe anyone would be “livid” fwiw.

Part of me hopes you all get your way, and Nige goes.  I think it will be a big shame if he goes, certainly at a time when we are looking for a new CEO and have just appointed Tins into a position where all three seem very aligned.  But hey ho, that’s life.

 

 

 

I don't know how to quote directly. 

I wasn't directing criticism towards you specifically just saying that there are people on here who do demean posters who don't share their position re Nige. 

It's not about people getting their way, sounds a bit churlish and petty. It's about letting people have their opinion and to ask questions. I don't expect people to agree with what I have to say, I don't have to agree with what they say, the most important thing is to be able to have a discussion without abuse. I don't have the energy for point scoring.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I don't know how to quote directly. 

I wasn't directing criticism towards you specifically just saying that there are people on here who do demean posters who don't share their position re Nige. 

It's not about people getting their way, sounds a bit churlish and petty. It's about letting people have their opinion and to ask questions. I don't expect people to agree with what I have to say, I don't have to agree with what they say, the most important thing is to be able to have a discussion without abuse. I don't have the energy for point scoring.

Thanks Max.  I don’t post / try to post in that manner.  I have strong opinions, but I always try to articulate why I feel that way…probably some posts too long.  But if someone says x or y is crap (or the opposite) without explaining, and I think differently, or have another angle on it, I’ll type a response asking why, or giving my view why I might not agree.

You’re a poster I like, you post considered stuff imho.

In terms of you small font reply last week, I don’t think being able to name a replacement is a reason why someone shouldn’t express an opinion of “Nige out” either.  I don’t subscribe to the view that if you can’t name a replacement you can’t want the manager changed.  So criticise away.   It’s not our job…we can of course debate / discuss.  FWIW I’ve no idea either…that’s not meaning I’m “Nige in” because.

The names I like, e.g. Warne, Taylor and Duff (amongst others) have recently got new jobs at Derby, Rotherham and Barnsley, so are a no-go financially.  There is a lot of discussion that we need a young, up and coming coach / manager. Unless they’ve already proven something (and that might be like a Critchley-type who’s been a no2 in the PL and has manager experience) then it’s a bloody huge gamble. We’ve been there twice with Johnson and Holden.

No, you’re right re the “own way” bit, it does sound churlish, but it does feel like some people want to blame every defeat on the manager, and each defeat it’s time to go.  I 100% believe that when Nige leaves this club will be in a far better place than when he joined.  Progress on the pitch is important, but how we measure it is more nuanced that 27pts from 23games this season and last season, imho.

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks Max.  I don’t post / try to post in that manner.  I have strong opinions, but I always try to articulate why I feel that way…probably some posts too long.  But if someone says x or y is crap (or the opposite) without explaining, and I think differently, or have another angle on it, I’ll type a response asking why, or giving my view why I might not agree.

You’re a poster I like, you post considered stuff imho.

In terms of you small font reply last week, I don’t think being able to name a replacement is a reason why someone shouldn’t express an opinion of “Nige out” either.  I don’t subscribe to the view that if you can’t name a replacement you can’t want the manager changed.  So criticise away.   It’s not our job…we can of course debate / discuss.  FWIW I’ve no idea either…that’s not meaning I’m “Nige in” because.

The names I like, e.g. Warne, Taylor and Duff (amongst others) have recently got new jobs at Derby, Rotherham and Barnsley, so are a no-go financially.  There is a lot of discussion that we need a young, up and coming coach / manager. Unless they’ve already proven something (and that might be like a Critchley-type who’s been a no2 in the PL and has manager experience) then it’s a bloody huge gamble. We’ve been there twice with Johnson and Holden.

No, you’re right re the “own way” bit, it does sound churlish, but it does feel like some people want to blame every defeat on the manager, and each defeat it’s time to go.  I 100% believe that when Nige leaves this club will be in a far better place than when he joined.  Progress on the pitch is important, but how we measure it is more nuanced that 27pts from 23games this season and last season, imho.

I think you have made a rod for your own back because you do offer a debate. You're considered a well respected poster on here who will try and offer well balanced view but you don't have to keep defending your position if people keeping attacking it.  

I've got no idea what is going to happen or if we do need a new manager, the replacement of Richard Gould (and or SL through a buyout) may be a deciding factor. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, 2015 said:

On the game on Saturday anyway - Deservedly took the lead. Individual errors from King and O'Leary cost us going in 1-1 at the break, we then start the 2nd half slowly and concede a soft goal. 

We were by no means awfully bad, it was just a poor result. Been a major overreaction

When we lose, like we did on Saturday, I always read people say "that's the worst I've ever seen us play" and it just makes me think wtf. 

For me, the bench mark is always the 6-0 home defeat to Cardiff or the 7-1 defeat to Swansea. 

So to hear people say a 2-1 defeat at home to Stoke was the worst they've ever seen just makes me laugh. Half the time I don't think these people either go to the game or watch the same game as me. 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

Who has belittled anyone?  See belowI don’t believe @exAtyeoMaxhas replied to me?  Do you mean @Tafkarmlf?  Don’t think you’ll find I’ve belittled them, because I’ll  think you’ll find today is the first time I’ve replied to them in months I didn't say you personally and to my knowledge you never do, I said it in context of strong criticism of NP on here generally.  They will confirm this. You can read my responses above (unless you are psychic!).  So again, stop spreading crap.  You’re the first to have a go when you think you’ve been misrepresented.  We disagree about Nige, so effing what. It's a forum and you hold strong views as I do- they're just different

I like Matt’s articles too.  But what is the relevance, apart from his current view seems to match yours?  I’ve been debating with him on twitter this morning.  He started his article with the fact that he was livid with Nige’s interview.  I can’t believe anyone would be “livid” fwiw. Perhaps it's an accumulative affect- he said as much

Part of me hopes you all get your way, and Nige goes.  I think it will be a big shame if he goes, certainly at a time when we are looking for a new CEO and have just appointed Tins into a position where all three seem very aligned.  But hey ho, that’s life. No one ever gets "their way"- it's just sometimes events align with people's views. As it happens my view is that NP has gone as far as he can.

OK- you asked me regarding @exAtyeoMaxand here it is below taken from "Pearson thread" on Saturday- I certainly didn't mean to imply the criticism was made at you, it's just something that was said about ability to question NP and not for the first time :

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

on 17/12/2022 at 22:09, Davefevs said:

Really?  Please point me in the direction of aggressive posts of this nature.  I haven’t read MDT though.

@exAtyeoMax replied

I can’t quote specific posts but I have had that impression that if I questioned Nige and his ability, I was a moron, dumb, deluded etc. Plus I can’t criticise him because I can’t state a suitable replacement! I don’t know who would be a suitable candidate, it’s not my job to, but I am entitled to an opinion on his performance as manager. I don’t tend to enter into the debates on here about Nige because I don’t have facts, figures, stats etc but just an overall judgement on his tenure. I don’t have much to add to a debate, which people might criticise and mock but hey ho. 

 

 

 

[2015]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

When we lose, like we did on Saturday, I always read people say "that's the worst I've ever seen us play" and it just makes me think wtf. 

For me, the bench mark is always the 6-0 home defeat to Cardiff or the 7-1 defeat to Swansea. 

So to hear people say a 2-1 defeat at home to Stoke was the worst they've ever seen just makes me laugh. Half the time I don't think these people either go to the game or watch the same game as me. 

I always think they must not have seen many Bristol City games then. There were multiple matches under Holden, LJ, SOD, McInnes, Millen and GJ that are all worse than what I've seen this season from us. Granted, we haven't been great, but by no means have we been absolutely dreadful. 
Sadly I think it is part of the wider Football community now, win and the manager is the best ever, lose and they're the worst manager ever. 

I don't actually think we're far away from getting things right, it's individual errors that keep costing the team. We actually can play some very good football at times and there was on Saturday and against Rotherham some great combination play between a few players. Yet again though, poor decisions by some players have cost us

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

There’s a difference between being angry and saying something constructive, and being belligerent and rude. Why does everything have to be extremes? People being fed up with rudeness do not want a smiley happy clapper response!

I didn’t think the interview was any different to previous ones, perhaps the journos have had enough of his behaviour? I don’t know

Ali said on the other pod that he didn't find Pearson to be rude in that interview. 

He also said he's seen him at the HPC and that he is highly thought of. 

Also went into great detail to explain he only has 3 minutes to speak to a manager immediately following a defeat and that he expects Pearson will elaborate further at his next press conference. 

[2015]

The biggest issue for me is when we go a goal behind or are searching for a winner is we bring on Chris Martin and then resort to lumping balls up field. We look a lot worse when we do this and I'm confident every time this happens that we won't score.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I always think they must not have seen many Bristol City games then. There were multiple matches under Holden, LJ, SOD, McInnes, Millen and GJ that are all worse than what I've seen this season from us. Granted, we haven't been great, but by no means have we been absolutely dreadful. 
Sadly I think it is part of the wider Football community now, win and the manager is the best ever, lose and they're the worst manager ever. 

I don't actually think we're far away from getting things right, it's individual errors that keep costing the team. We actually can play some very good football at times and there was on Saturday and against Rotherham some great combination play between a few players. Yet again though, poor decisions by some players have cost us

I think by and large, we've played well at home this season. We had done enough to have won against Coventry, Swansea, Sheffield, Watford and probably Stoke too. Win all those and we would be sitting comfortably in the play offs. It's very fine margins. I've been frustrated we've not won more at home but on very few occasions have I walked away and thought we were trash. 

Progress has been made as it wasn't that long ago that we were playing terrible at home. 

Performance wise, we are doing just fine. Its the individual mistakes in both boxes that are costing us. We could have had at least 2 goals in the second half. Unfortunately people look at the result and that dictates what they thought of the performance. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, 2015 said:

I always think they must not have seen many Bristol City games then. There were multiple matches under Holden, LJ, SOD, McInnes, Millen and GJ that are all worse than what I've seen this season from us. Granted, we haven't been great, but by no means have we been absolutely dreadful. 
Sadly I think it is part of the wider Football community now, win and the manager is the best ever, lose and they're the worst manager ever. 

I don't actually think we're far away from getting things right, it's individual errors that keep costing the team. We actually can play some very good football at times and there was on Saturday and against Rotherham some great combination play between a few players. Yet again though, poor decisions by some players have cost us

Cannot remember specific poor games under Alan Dicks but there must have been many, look where that took us. This season is close between every club in this div no-one knows how it will end at the end.

However if we continue to make mistakes...way too many and seem to repeat them in many games; this could well turn out to be our downfall.

NP is picking his best players going by effort etc in training, so his judgement is currently flawed,

SL will go with him till the end, where-ever that takes us, as SL is calling the shots still atm. So changing manager now will make no difference, if we end up a div lower thats where we will be, (more than likely atm imo). We have to go where SL takes us...the end.

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, 2015 said:

It's annoyed me more than our defeat at the weekend. Our fanbase must be the most reactionary bunch in the Country, or certainly up there. 

I don't think people realise how big the job was that NP took on in February 2021. The whole culture within the club has to change i'm afraid, none of this getting upset over our manager being rude, none of this bedwetting over a narrow defeat to a club at a similar level to ourselves. The culture needs to change and reading Adam Baker's tweet - I am now glad he has left the building.

I think this probably deserves its own thread about the culture. 

NP made a big deal about this when he came in and continues to do so. He says we are too nice as a club and I agree. 

But that culture isn't just limited to what goes on with the players. It's the fans too that need to change. I think Nige is experiencing a push back from the fans about the change that needs to happen if we are to push forward as a club. Being a nice club won't get us anywhere. 

We get fans saying "we need to be better at doing the dark arts" the exact same fans are then going mental because Nigel has came out and hurt the feelings of a very well paid player. It's absolutely bizarre. I, like Nigel want these very well paid players to run through brick walls for this club. If a player like Atkinson thinks he can just sit at home and watch Netflix binging on chocolates whilst he takes his time recovering from an illness then he can get out of the club. 

I think it's quite refreshing that we actually have a manager that isn't afraid to call out players that have become a bit too comfortable, something that these very same fans have they themselves complained about. 

I just get fed up of constantly listening to the same fans over and over again being hypocritical without even being aware of the full facts. 

[2015]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think this probably deserves its own thread about the culture. 

NP made a big deal about this when he came in and continues to do so. He says we are too nice as a club and I agree. 

But that culture isn't just limited to what goes on with the players. It's the fans too that need to change. I think Nige is experiencing a push back from the fans about the change that needs to happen if we are to push forward as a club. Being a nice club won't get us anywhere. 

We get fans saying "we need to be better at doing the dark arts" the exact same fans are then going mental because Nigel has came out and hurt the feelings of a very well paid player. It's absolutely bizarre. I, like Nigel want these very well paid players to run through brick walls for this club. If a player like Atkinson thinks he can just sit at home and watch Netflix binging on chocolates whilst he takes his time recovering from an illness then he can get out of the club. 

I think it's quite refreshing that we actually have a manager that isn't afraid to call out players that have become a bit too comfortable, something that these very same fans have they themselves complained about. 

I just get fed up of constantly listening to the same fans over and over again being hypocritical without even being aware of the full facts. 

The culture of a club is massively important to any club and its success. You only have to watch films on Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger and Brian Clough to acknowledge this. 

It's not just our fans though, it's within the club - the ownership, the board, the media department. It's all been very cushy cushy for a long time and a club which has been alluded to by FBC podcast as 'pleased with itself'. I massively agree with that quote. 

So now we have a Manager who calls players out, has called things out at the club for what they are and is slated for it. NP has acknowledged that there are things within the club that are going to need to change in order for the club to be successful in the long run. 

Realistically we were never going to push on this season in terms of our own issues with ffp. However this summer coming will be a huge overhaul of players leaving and potentially being sold. I think sacking NP before all of this takes place after overseeing this group of players for 2 years would be a huge mistake. 

The reality is this club was a total mess when he took over and stabilising us into a position where we can still be a Championship team once we are in a better place financially is the most important thing.

I have no doubt we will survive this season by the way.

[lenred]

15 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think this probably deserves its own thread about the culture. 

NP made a big deal about this when he came in and continues to do so. He says we are too nice as a club and I agree. 

But that culture isn't just limited to what goes on with the players. It's the fans too that need to change. I think Nige is experiencing a push back from the fans about the change that needs to happen if we are to push forward as a club. Being a nice club won't get us anywhere. 

We get fans saying "we need to be better at doing the dark arts" the exact same fans are then going mental because Nigel has came out and hurt the feelings of a very well paid player. It's absolutely bizarre. I, like Nigel want these very well paid players to run through brick walls for this club. If a player like Atkinson thinks he can just sit at home and watch Netflix binging on chocolates whilst he takes his time recovering from an illness then he can get out of the club. 

I think it's quite refreshing that we actually have a manager that isn't afraid to call out players that have become a bit too comfortable, something that these very same fans have they themselves complained about. 

I just get fed up of constantly listening to the same fans over and over again being hypocritical without even being aware of the full facts. 

They are aware alright.    They just choose to ignore the facts as they don’t  suit their desperation to get rid of NP! 

Edited December 19, 2022 by lenred

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

When we lose, like we did on Saturday, I always read people say "that's the worst I've ever seen us play" and it just makes me think wtf. 

For me, the bench mark is always the 6-0 home defeat to Cardiff or the 7-1 defeat to Swansea. 

So to hear people say a 2-1 defeat at home to Stoke was the worst they've ever seen just makes me laugh. Half the time I don't think these people either go to the game or watch the same game as me. 

I’ve just listened to 3PIAP, and they all agree we were the better side…albeit in a poor game.  That’s how I saw it.  An Alex Neil side, away from home, intent on disrupting the flow, find themselves behind, then gifted a lead, and go back to disrupting the game.  I have no problem with his tactics either.

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ali said on the other pod that he didn't find Pearson to be rude in that interview. 

He also said he's seen him at the HPC and that he is highly thought of. 

Also went into great detail to explain he only has 3 minutes to speak to a manager immediately following a defeat and that he expects Pearson will elaborate further at his next press conference. 

It’s worth a listen.  He gives quite a lot of info re what he thinks of Nige, their relationship, and other stuff.

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, gl2 said:

Cannot remember specific poor games under Alan Dicks but there must have been many, look where that took us. This season is close between every club in this div no-one knows how it will end at the end.

However if we continue to make mistakes...way too many and seem to repeat them in many games; this could well turn out to be our downfall.

NP is picking his best players going by effort etc in training, so his judgement is currently flawed,

SL will go with him till the end, where-ever that takes us, as SL is calling the shots still atm. So changing manager now will make no difference, if we end up a div lower thats where we will be, (more than likely atm imo). We have to go where SL takes us...the end.

 

How else is he meant to select them ? If I worked my nuts off in training all week and was then benched in favour of someone i knew had only done the bare minimum I would be pretty peed off tbh.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

OK- you asked me regarding @exAtyeoMaxand here it is below taken from "Pearson thread" on Saturday- I certainly didn't mean to imply the criticism was made at you, it's just something that was said about ability to question NP and not for the first time :

 

Wasn’t the post you refer to from someone being sarcastic about “Nige lovers”?

and a reply:

Edited December 19, 2022 by Davefevs

[W-S-M Seagull]

41 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

How else is he meant to select them ? If I worked my nuts off in training all week and was then benched in favour of someone i knew had only done the bare minimum I would be pretty peed off tbh.

Pearsons comments about a lack of enthusiasm by Atkinson is very broad. However it kind of suggests that he hasn't been training well etc. 

As fans, we need to accept there is going to be some short term pain. You can't install a culture of players working their socks off in training and in a match if you're simply going to pick players who've not put that effort in out of need.

That could disrupt everything and then make the players that have been working hard think well why should I bother working hard when he's not but he's still playing? 

Playing King at CB sends a very strong message to the other players that even if there is no one else to take their place, we'll play someone there out of position who has worked harder than them. I like that. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by W-S-M Seagull

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Genuinely 

You brought an assumption that you've made up to the table, discussed it as truth and then come up with the conclusion that you're right and everyone else is wrong, or cant have an opinion. 

Absolutely howling 

This place comes up with all sorts of crazy notions at times often at the expense of nuance and discussion. 

This post does that. 

The push back from the fans is because we're shit, the manager is off on one and is playing a 36 year old Cm as a CB. 

There's more to it than that, and it's certainly not about the whole culture thing your post has literally made up, dropped in the conversation and then gone on a rant about. 

We're 5th lowest in the Fair Play Table  a mere two points off being third lowest or, worst behaved if you prefer 

All that mettle, and determination etc that you're craving for sees us near the most goals conceded too, which I note no one discussed. 

So not only are we more likely to get disciplinary points we're also more likely to concede than most. 

This is your culture change? Seriously.

The double hard bastard approach isnt working. 

However don't let that spoil a good made up rant about things no one has said  and you've made or as you call them 'full facts' 

As I said,

 

 

 

Your post doesn't deserve a well thought out reply.

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Genuinely 

You brought an assumption that you've made up to the table, discussed it as truth and then come up with the conclusion that you're right and everyone else is wrong, or cant have an opinion. 

Absolutely howling 

This place comes up with all sorts of crazy notions at times often at the expense of nuance and discussion. 

This post does that. 

The push back from the fans is because we're shit, the manager is off on one and is playing a 36 year old Cm as a CB. 

There's more to it than that, and it's certainly not about the whole culture thing your post has literally made up, dropped in the conversation and then gone on a rant about. 

We're 5th lowest in the Fair Play Table  a mere two points off being third lowest or, worst behaved if you prefer 

All that mettle, and determination etc that you're craving for sees us near the most goals conceded too, which I note no one discussed. 

So not only are we more likely to get disciplinary points we're also more likely to concede than most. 

This is your culture change? Seriously.

The double hard bastard approach isnt working. 

However don't let that spoil a good made up rant about things no one has said  and you've made or as you call them 'full facts' 

As I said,

 

 

 

Out of interest how do you justify that your assumptions / thoughts / theories carry more credibility than someone else’s, to write a post like the one above?  I’m intrigued.

[W-S-M Seagull]

Just now, Davefevs said:

Out of interest how do you justify that your assumptions / thoughts / theories carry more credibility than someone else’s, to write a post like the one above?  I’m intrigued.

This is the push back against the culture change that I spoke about. People don't like change. This is what Nige is working with both with the players and the fans. 

People just like us being a nice little club. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

20 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Genuinely 

You brought an assumption that you've made up to the table, discussed it as truth and then come up with the conclusion that you're right and everyone else is wrong, or cant have an opinion. 

Absolutely howling 

This place comes up with all sorts of crazy notions at times often at the expense of nuance and discussion. 

This post does that. 

The push back from the fans is because we're shit, the manager is off on one and is playing a 36 year old Cm as a CB. 

There's more to it than that, and it's certainly not about the whole culture thing your post has literally made up, dropped in the conversation and then gone on a rant about. 

We're 5th lowest in the Fair Play Table  a mere two points off being third lowest or, worst behaved if you prefer 

All that mettle, and determination etc that you're craving for sees us near the most goals conceded too, which I note no one discussed. 

So not only are we more likely to get disciplinary points we're also more likely to concede than most. 

This is your culture change? Seriously.

The double hard bastard approach isnt working. 

However don't let that spoil a good made up rant about things no one has said  and you've made or as you call them 'full facts' 

As I said,

 

 

 

Is that you Ian? 

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I dont that's the point.

its a discussion. Ive discussed what I thought of the post, added some context around mettle and 'double hard bastard' stuff not working 

And prompted either a rebuttal, a fuelled up ranty post or questions such as your own. 

Not that difficult to get Dave. 

It’s not fuelled up at all…and why aren’t I allowed to ask a question why you think @W-S-M Seagull’s thoughts / claims are so ridiculous against your own?

[Davefevs]

to add, hit enter too quick…

@W-S-M Seagullisnt saying his post is full facts he’s saying others are quoting things as full facts when they are conjecture / opinion etc

[W-S-M Seagull]

49 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

So that's a no then. Didn't think so. Quelle Suprise

You're definitely Ian. 

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Pearsons comments about a lack of enthusiasm by Atkinson is very broad. However it kind of suggests that he hasn't been training well etc. 

As fans, we need to accept there is going to be some short term pain. You can't install a culture of players working their socks off in training and in a match if you're simply going to pick players who've not put that effort in out of need.

That could disrupt everything and then make the players that have been working hard think well why should I bother working hard when he's not but he's still playing? 

Playing King at CB sends a very strong message to the other players that even if there is no one else to take their place, we'll play someone there out of position who has worked harder than them. I like that. 

That was my point so not too sure why you quoted me.