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Sam Bell & Fan treatment of Young Players

Hup

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Hup

Hup

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When the club are clearly identifying using academy products as part of the strategy fans need to remember to be patient. Young kids take time to find their feet and that means patience from fans. So often are they either lauded too highly or castigated for one or two opportunities or small amounts of minutes on the pitch to aid their development which don’t go to plan. Sam Bell is the perfect example of that. Battered from all quarters because of his performances at wing back or coming on as sub for 5 minutes here and there. Gets his chance (in terms of decent game time) in his favoured position and he’s smashing it. Doing exactly what he does in the 21s. Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

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joe jordans teeth

joe jordans teeth

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2 hours ago, Hup said:

When the club are clearly identifying using academy products as part of the strategy fans need to remember to be patient. Young kids take time to find their feet and that means patience from fans. So often are they either lauded too highly or castigated for one or two opportunities or small amounts of minutes on the pitch to aid their development which don’t go to plan. Sam Bell is the perfect example of that. Battered from all quarters because of his performances at wing back or coming on as sub for 5 minutes here and there. Gets his chance (in terms of decent game time) in his favoured position and he’s smashing it. Doing exactly what he does in the 21s. Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

Correct but not sure why you have put it in this section 

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Robbored

Robbored

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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good point OP. Plus players develop at different times, oj different trajectories too- people writing off Bajic or Low so early in their career here, their development at this level Is a bit mad for example.

Agree that there is a cut off but a bit of patience and encouragement can go a long way.

Every club has a plethora of various opinions within their fan base and otib reflects that perfectly. We have very rational and sensible posters along with other posters who are quick to judge new players whether they’re youngsters or more experienced. We have others who havoc little idea about anything, some of whom I have on ignore.

Football forums are just like people who we meet on a daily basis.Everyone is different and have different opinions about everything.

 

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MelksRed

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On 28/01/2023 at 16:35, Hup said:

When the club are clearly identifying using academy products as part of the strategy fans need to remember to be patient. Young kids take time to find their feet and that means patience from fans. So often are they either lauded too highly or castigated for one or two opportunities or small amounts of minutes on the pitch to aid their development which don’t go to plan. Sam Bell is the perfect example of that. Battered from all quarters because of his performances at wing back or coming on as sub for 5 minutes here and there. Gets his chance (in terms of decent game time) in his favoured position and he’s smashing it. Doing exactly what he does in the 21s. Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

Vyner is a case in point. A few seasons of shaky performances and bad decision making. Now solid and reliable.

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sglosbcfc

sglosbcfc

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Good point OP. Plus players develop at different times, oj different trajectories too- people writing off Bajic or Low so early in their career here, their development at this level Is a bit mad for example.

Agree that there is a cut off but a bit of patience and encouragement can go a long way.

I agree, I'm still convinced that Guy Madjo will come good. 

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

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On 28/01/2023 at 16:35, Hup said:

When the club are clearly identifying using academy products as part of the strategy fans need to remember to be patient. Young kids take time to find their feet and that means patience from fans. So often are they either lauded too highly or castigated for one or two opportunities or small amounts of minutes on the pitch to aid their development which don’t go to plan. Sam Bell is the perfect example of that. Battered from all quarters because of his performances at wing back or coming on as sub for 5 minutes here and there. Gets his chance (in terms of decent game time) in his favoured position and he’s smashing it. Doing exactly what he does in the 21s. Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

You are correct in what you say. Yet it highlights that a very positive attitude from the young ones is what is needed to get through the early period of their career. Sam Bell will probably have been reminded countless times by his father and coaching staff that one mistake or bad game is not a signal to end of his career. He just has to work harder to minimise the errors.

Doesn't it also show how much character within Zak Vyner to keep going, learning all the time and not allowing his mistakes to overshadow his good points.

It proves that it's not the best players who always make it but those with a positive mentality and a will to improve. I've seen so many brilliant youngsters at City over the last 70 years who failed not because they were bad footballers but unable to take the rough with the smooth.

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

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13 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Don't remember Bell being 'battered from all quarters' at all. It was more aimed at management for chucking such a young lad into a game in an unfamiliar position and basically setting him up to fail! 

I bet Sam took the positive of playing in the first team and not letting anything interfere with his career.

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BCFC Rich

BCFC Rich

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On 28/01/2023 at 08:35, Hup said:

When the club are clearly identifying using academy products as part of the strategy fans need to remember to be patient. Young kids take time to find their feet and that means patience from fans. So often are they either lauded too highly or castigated for one or two opportunities or small amounts of minutes on the pitch to aid their development which don’t go to plan. Sam Bell is the perfect example of that. Battered from all quarters because of his performances at wing back or coming on as sub for 5 minutes here and there. Gets his chance (in terms of decent game time) in his favoured position and he’s smashing it. Doing exactly what he does in the 21s. Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

Good post, also important to keep of Bell's back if he doesn't always replicate that level of performance, particularly as he is getting established. 

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Spike

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On 28/01/2023 at 16:35, Hup said:

When the club are clearly identifying using academy products as part of the strategy fans need to remember to be patient. Young kids take time to find their feet and that means patience from fans. So often are they either lauded too highly or castigated for one or two opportunities or small amounts of minutes on the pitch to aid their development which don’t go to plan. Sam Bell is the perfect example of that. Battered from all quarters because of his performances at wing back or coming on as sub for 5 minutes here and there. Gets his chance (in terms of decent game time) in his favoured position and he’s smashing it. Doing exactly what he does in the 21s. Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

I still to this day remember Semenyo liking a tweet when he was struggling with us and a lot of fans were saying he was rubbish at finishing and so on, essentially I just said that I had faith in him to get past where he was and that he would come good. The fact that he liked that made me realise he was seeing what our fans were saying, he knew he could up his game and all he needed was a little bit of that confidence in him from the fans. 
It's been the same with quite a few of our youngsters, Reid had a bit of a rough time when he was being played in the middle of the pitch, Bryan got ripped into about his "lack of ability to defend" etc I mean hell, I wrote Vyner off a long time ago and this season the bloke has made me put on like 4 stone eating all the humble pie he's served up.

To add to the whole discussion, even players who hit the ground running and look phenomenal will have dips in form, it doesn't mean they've lost it and are in decline, it's just a case of them getting their confidence back up and getting that bit of luck that really gives them a boost. 
The above said I do think constructive criticism still has it's place and if it's fair and correct that kind of feedback can help a player expand their game, I suppose the simple line that sums everything up is when it comes to players in your team, don't be a dick :laughcont:

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Red-Robbo

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On 28/01/2023 at 16:35, Hup said:

Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

 

Perhaps he had to go out on loan to develop his game and get time in first team football? Like most young players do. I doubt Pearson takes such decisions based entirely on crowd reaction in one game.

Ultimately, young players, like older players, get judged on performance and if someone is having a 'mare, it doesn't matter if they've played one game for us or 500, there will be calls to hook them off. We can't afford passengers and we can't afford to drop points, plus it can do players' confidence more harm to leave them on field to make potentially more mistakes, than the humiliation of being subbed will. 

However, I'll agree with you that you can't make judgement on players' effectiveness - any age of player - based on one or two games, particularly if they are cameo performances. Shades of the famous "Matt Smith is Awful" post, just before he helped turn our season around. In young players, there is a developmental arc that they are on, which means, as you say, patience is needed and they may be a better player next season than they were this one. 

I'll also agree that booing and heckling individual players is unhelpful and unfair. It's a team game, and the manager sends them out and tells them what to do. I'm not a fan generally of City supporters ever booing City players.

That said, if a team selection and performance isn't working, it's quite normal for the crowd to let the manager know they can see this and hope he changes things around. Managers can be stubborn creatures and loathe sometimes to see what's happening right in front of them, because their plans worked out so fine in training or on paper. As supporters, we pay our money, and we have the right to occasionally show disquiet at how things are going. 

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petehinton

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

@petehinton Hi Pete, I saw you mention on another thread that the next crop coming through the academy are our most exciting ever..

Would you be able to point out a few to keep an eye on?

For me - Raphael Araoye (already been training with the first team a fair bit and referenced on here), Jamie Knight-Lebel, Elijah Morrison, Marley Rose, Olly Thomas and Ephrahim Yeboah all have a real real chance of being in the first team picture over the next 2 years or so. Or at least getting good league loans. 
 

Brandon Bak we’ve just taken from Weston is also really exciting. Haven’t seen him since he joined, but the bits I saw/heard From him from his time at Weston is he’s the all round striker. 

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Betty Swallocks

Betty Swallocks

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7 minutes ago, petehinton said:

For me - Raphael Araoye (already been training with the first team a fair bit and referenced on here), Jamie Knight-Lebel, Elijah Morrison, Marley Rose, Olly Thomas and Ephrahim Yeboah all have a real real chance of being in the first team picture over the next 2 years or so. Or at least getting good league loans. 
 

Brandon Bak we’ve just taken from Weston is also really exciting. Haven’t seen him since he joined, but the bits I saw/heard From him from his time at Weston is he’s the all round striker. 

I really liked the look of Zac Bell in some of the U21 games I seen last season. Haven’t heard him mentioned so much this season. 

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Oh Louie louie

Oh Louie louie

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On 30/01/2023 at 21:46, PHILINFRANCE said:

It was just a joke.

GM must be in his 30s now, and Cameroon have recently kicked out a large number (20?) of their under 21 or under 23 squad as they were found to have falsified their date of birth.

I don’t suppose you remember the young Roger Milla.

What a player Roger was, not many players led pearce and butcher on a merry dance, never did work out his real age

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Red-Robbo

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20 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

What a player Roger was, not many players led pearce and butcher on a merry dance, never did work out his real age

 

38 in that World Cup apparently, and 42 when he had his last international cap.

Oh, and his name was actually Roger Miller it seems.  Strange, but true. 

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Bazooka Joe

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On 28/01/2023 at 16:35, Hup said:

Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

Shame about Low. He was unlucky to give such a poor performance against Lincoln, which was partly due to the team as a whole playing badly.

He must have lost a heap of confidence after that game. If he's mentally tough, he will recover and rebuild himself.

I've said this elsewhere, but will say it again.

Low has the potential to become a solid, reliable, defender. Hopefully, playing regularly for us rather than another club.

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italian dave

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3 hours ago, petehinton said:

For me - Raphael Araoye (already been training with the first team a fair bit and referenced on here), Jamie Knight-Lebel, Elijah Morrison, Marley Rose, Olly Thomas and Ephrahim Yeboah all have a real real chance of being in the first team picture over the next 2 years or so. Or at least getting good league loans. 
 

Brandon Bak we’ve just taken from Weston is also really exciting. Haven’t seen him since he joined, but the bits I saw/heard From him from his time at Weston is he’s the all round striker. 

Imagine, in a year or two, a starting XI entirely academy players. ? 

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Crackers Corner

Crackers Corner

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On 28/01/2023 at 16:35, Hup said:

When the club are clearly identifying using academy products as part of the strategy fans need to remember to be patient. Young kids take time to find their feet and that means patience from fans. So often are they either lauded too highly or castigated for one or two opportunities or small amounts of minutes on the pitch to aid their development which don’t go to plan. Sam Bell is the perfect example of that. Battered from all quarters because of his performances at wing back or coming on as sub for 5 minutes here and there. Gets his chance (in terms of decent game time) in his favoured position and he’s smashing it. Doing exactly what he does in the 21s. Then you have the likes Joe Low who has had to go out on loan because of the disgusting treatment he received. Fans need to be more aware of the impact they have on a young players confidence and their ability to try and step up. 

To be fair i don't think Bell was "battered on all quarters" by the fans when he played wing back. If it is the game in question then it was very obvious that he not working as a wing back and there was genuine concern from where i was sat about his confidence being smashed and lack of protection from both management and teammates. if i remember correctly Kalas was out on the pitch 5/10 mins early for second half so there was obviously a "firm discussion" about this in the dressing room.

one of the few pleasures over the last couple of seasons has been watching young players come good and force their way into the 1st team which i doubt many of us realised how successful this would be and what a great crop of Academy players we have.

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Hup

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7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Perhaps he had to go out on loan to develop his game and get time in first team football? Like most young players do. I doubt Pearson takes such decisions based entirely on crowd reaction in one game.

Ultimately, young players, like older players, get judged on performance and if someone is having a 'mare, it doesn't matter if they've played one game for us or 500, there will be calls to hook them off. We can't afford passengers and we can't afford to drop points, plus it can do players' confidence more harm to leave them on field to make potentially more mistakes, than the humiliation of being subbed will. 

However, I'll agree with you that you can't make judgement on players' effectiveness - any age of player - based on one or two games, particularly if they are cameo performances. Shades of the famous "Matt Smith is Awful" post, just before he helped turn our season around. In young players, there is a developmental arc that they are on, which means, as you say, patience is needed and they may be a better player next season than they were this one. 

I'll also agree that booing and heckling individual players is unhelpful and unfair. It's a team game, and the manager sends them out and tells them what to do. I'm not a fan generally of City supporters ever booing City players.

That said, if a team selection and performance isn't working, it's quite normal for the crowd to let the manager know they can see this and hope he changes things around. Managers can be stubborn creatures and loathe sometimes to see what's happening right in front of them, because their plans worked out so fine in training or on paper. As supporters, we pay our money, and we have the right to occasionally show disquiet at how things are going. 

Agree with some of this. There has to be balance. Bottom line as a fan, all that matters is winning games. 3 points above all else. Any other positives on top of that are a bonus. Ie. Performance, playing style, quality of game etc. 

I do however disagree with ‘we pay our money so…’. As fans our ‘job’ is to support the team, no matter what. Not get a red mist after a few pints and lose the plot which as we all know Ashton Gate is very guilty of, either that or complete silence. Which is sometimes worse. 

The impact fans have on players young and older is massive. I know for a fact that until this recent run of form players, and I quote ‘hated playing at home’. Can’t wait for away games. The players talk and how the fans are at home is a massive issue for the squad. Hugely affects performance. Some people often either don’t understand that or care as long as they can have a rant. It’s a two way thing I know! 

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Red-Robbo

Red-Robbo

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42 minutes ago, Hup said:

Agree with some of this. There has to be balance. Bottom line as a fan, all that matters is winning games. 3 points above all else. Any other positives on top of that are a bonus. Ie. Performance, playing style, quality of game etc. 

I do however disagree with ‘we pay our money so…’. As fans our ‘job’ is to support the team, no matter what. Not get a red mist after a few pints and lose the plot which as we all know Ashton Gate is very guilty of, either that or complete silence. Which is sometimes worse. 

The impact fans have on players young and older is massive. I know for a fact that until this recent run of form players, and I quote ‘hated playing at home’. Can’t wait for away games. The players talk and how the fans are at home is a massive issue for the squad. Hugely affects performance. Some people often either don’t understand that or care as long as they can have a rant. It’s a two way thing I know! 

 

Perhaps I didn't explain it well, H.  In short, me - I don't boo. Don't see the point. During a game especially, it negatively impacts players. 

HOWEVER, I do defend the right of those who do. It's OUR club. Not Lansdown or the players, for most of whom, it's just a job and they'll have many more clubs in their career. We, the fans, will be here after they've gone, after Pearson, after Lansdown. For this reason, I'm not going to slag folk off for wanting the best at their club; their passion; a natural reaction to the agony of us playing poorly.

But, as I say, it doesn't exactly help things along if you do it mid-game or barrack a struggling player.  I think that's where we agree. 

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