FBC POD: Sunderland [A] the verdict: it really did feel like a win

[headhunter]

  [also available on Google, Apple & Spotify].

DaveP hosts the inimitable Ian Gay, Mark Tovey AND Chris Honor in this review of this afternoon's game at the SOL.

The unbeaten run is extended to 11 games as City get a point at the SOL but, more importantly, after a wait of 469 days we got a penalty and Nahki tucked it away in the 93rd minute. 

Ian offers a short debrief on what Steve Lansdown said in his address to the Senior Reds on Thursday PLUS, listen out for Chris explaining what it's like to take a penalty under pressure as he recalls his strike from the spot against Joe Jordan's Hearts back in the 90s

Sound quality is better these days and Ian's not his dogmatic self [a trend of late if you're a critic who doesn't listen]

[Kid in the Riot]

15 minutes ago, headhunter said:

  [also available on Google, Apple & Spotify].

DaveP hosts the inimitable Ian Gay, Mark Tovey AND Chris Honor in this review of this afternoon's game at the SOL.

The unbeaten run is extended to 11 games as City get a point at the SOL but, more importantly, after a wait of 469 days we got a penalty and Nahki tucked it away in the 93rd minute. 

Ian offers a short debrief on what Steve Lansdown said in his address to the Senior Reds on Thursday PLUS, listen out for Chris explaining what it's like to take a penalty under pressure as he recalls his strike from the spot against Joe Jordan's Hearts back in the 90s

Sound quality is better these days and Ian's not his dogmatic self [a trend of late if you're a critic who doesn't listen]

Is it on Spotify  now? Will put on whilst watching Inter. Pod in the week was good and I like the new Ian. 

[headhunter]

4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Is it on Spotify  now? Will put on whilst watching Inter. Pod in the week was good and I like the new Ian. 

Yes it is and I'm glad you do [like the "new" Ian]. Chris ,as always, is v. Good too.

[Davefevs]

Re F/Ks…are they that bad?

Re Scott - he’s made the most assists of any City player this season.  He’s joint 13th in the Championship for assists!!!  Goals, yep, could do with improving that, but if you notice, the recent change has allowed him more freedom, and he’s starting to get into better position (plus of course has a cup goal v WBA - got 4 last season).  Brownhill was 21 when he scored 1 in his first season, got 5 the following season aged 22, ditto aged 23, he also took free-kicks too.  Alex just 19, and doing much more to influence games.  Let’s not get too dragged in to goals and assists as the measure of a player like Alex.  Agree with Ian on yesterday, good first half, but got a bit lost second half.  Got another opposition player booked though, a regular thing.

 

 

[Davefevs]

Players are often shown inside…into congestion.  It’s better than showing them the line in that position (inside the lines of the pen area), because players then get into the cutback zone and you have central defenders then worried about stopping the cross than marking their men.  We’ve scored so many goals this season from exactly that…That’s why.

I don’t think for the goal Tanner showed him inside per se, he was just hugely exposed because Zak had tried to nip the ball away from Gelhardt, got rolled and was out of the game for the Clarke v Tanner aspect of that move.  He did get himself back in (through a lung-busting recovery run) and it took a screamer from Clarke and also a bit of luck to go through Zak’s desperate attempt to block.

So you could argue the goal was down to Zak failing to win a ball 10 yards into their half.

But we won’t concede many like that.

[Davefevs]

Re EFL FFP.

In its current guise, nobody can say about 23/24, 24/25, because we don’t know our income or costs yet…regardless of selling players (or buying for that matter).  Assuming no players going in or out and costs and income staying at current levels, we should be ok, because we’ve got the levels down to within the range needed.

As for the proposed changes, we will need to wait and see, but again it looks like we’ve made the move to get costs into line.

[REDOXO]

Watched the Man U game with the paddy on again. The best one I can remember. Having Chris on gives it so much more balance and in general people are more polite and calm. 
 

Great talking points too! 
 

For my tuppence are we good enough to go on a run? I would say yes. Will we be happy when we have the newly adjusted 53 points? yes.
 

The next four games in the league are winnable so keeping my fingers crossed for an exciting end to the season, hopefully in the top half!

Edited February 19, 2023 by REDOXO

[frenchred]

Getting fed up saying it but yet another great listen! Well done guys, keep up the good work it's appreciated

[Davefevs]

46 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Watched the Man U game with the paddy on again. The best one I can remember. Having Chris on gives it so much more balance and in general people are more polite and calm. 
 

Great talking points too! 
 

For my tuppence are we good enough to go on a run? I would say yes. Will we be happy when we have the newly adjusted 53 points? yes.
 

The next four games in the league are winnable so keeping my fingers crossed for an exciting end to the season, hopefully in the top half!

I liked Chris on Dave’s one-on-one with him, was a very good listen.

What is the method behind 53 points being required.

I’ve added games left and points needed for all those teams below us who need greater than one point per game to get to 53.

Imho none of the bottom 5 will get 53 points.

[2015]

Cheers @headhuntera good listen.

[GrahamC]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I liked Chris on Dave’s one-on-one with him, was a very good listen.

What is the method behind 53 points being required.

I’ve added games left and points needed for all those teams below us who need greater than one point per game to get to 53.

Imho none of the bottom 5 will get 53 points.

Absolutely, plus there are plenty of games when they play each other.

Best of luck to them both winning that..

With by far the best goal difference in the bottom half we probably only need another 9 points to survive now.

[ExiledAjax]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I liked Chris on Dave’s one-on-one with him, was a very good listen.

What is the method behind 53 points being required.

I’ve added games left and points needed for all those teams below us who need greater than one point per game to get to 53.

Imho none of the bottom 5 will get 53 points.

53 points for safety? As in 52 is what 22nd will get this season. Not in a million years. 

47 or 48 will see a team safe this season.

Edited February 19, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Absolutely, plus there are plenty of games when they play each other.

Best of luck to them both winning that..

With by far the best goal difference in the bottom half we probably only need another 9 points to survive now.

I know anyone can beat anyone in the Championship, but Huddersfield play 5 of the top 6, 11 of the top half.  Just 3 games against bottom half teams.  Fair play if they get 53 points.  Not saying they won’t survive, but it won’t be at our expense.

 

Wigan on the other hand have played most of the top 6 twice already.

[REDOXO]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I liked Chris on Dave’s one-on-one with him, was a very good listen.

What is the method behind 53 points being required.

I’ve added games left and points needed for all those teams below us who need greater than one point per game to get to 53.

Imho none of the bottom 5 will get 53 points.

I based 53 on Ian’s SWAG estimate. Sorry nothing scientific!

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I know anyone can beat anyone in the Championship, but Huddersfield play 5 of the top 6, 11 of the top half.  Just 3 games against bottom half teams.  Fair play if they get 53 points.  Not saying they won’t survive, but it won’t be at our expense.

 

Wigan on the other hand have played most of the top 6 twice already.

Rotherham seem to be struggling & QPR are on a horrendous run, Blackpool’s win at the weekend was their first in the league since October..

QPR have a fair few points but those other two don’t look on course for even 50.

Wigan have certainly tightened up under Maloney, Cardiff have had 2 good wins & obviously Huddersfield have Warnock but for all of them to sustain good form seems highly improbable.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I based 53 on Ian’s SWAG estimate. Sorry nothing scientific!

What’s SWAG?

[REDOXO]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What’s SWAG?

Sh***y Wild Arse Guess

[Beni71]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I liked Chris on Dave’s one-on-one with him, was a very good listen.

What is the method behind 53 points being required.

I’ve added games left and points needed for all those teams below us who need greater than one point per game to get to 53.

Imho none of the bottom 5 will get 53 points.

@DavefevsIan has stated a number of times it’s an average league and anyone can beat anyone. I don’t disagree with this point but I think Ian lost sight of the reality of the table and results beyond Bristol City. Took his eye off the ball

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Beni71 said:

@DavefevsIan has stated a number of times it’s an average league and anyone can beat anyone. I don’t disagree with this point but I think Ian lost sight of the reality of the table and results beyond Bristol City. Took his eye off the ball

Posing the question…

- is it an average League?

- What constitutes an average league?

I’m guessing (from memory) that 53 points isn’t the average points total needed to stay up?

[ExiledAjax]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Posing the question…

- is it an average League?

- What constitutes an average league?

I’m guessing (from memory) that 53 points isn’t the average points total needed to stay up?

It's more like 46 or 47, think the actual average points haul for 22nd is 46.something, so 46 +GD or 47 will tend to keep you safe. In very recent years it's even lower, more like 44.

1 point per game tends to keep you safe in most leagues in most seasons.

Edited February 19, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[GrahamC]

45 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Posing the question…

- is it an average League?

- What constitutes an average league?

I’m guessing (from memory) that 53 points isn’t the average points total needed to stay up?

Since we returned to the Championship in 15/16 the highest number of points that’s ever been needed to stay up is 51, so that obviously not true (made up).

[REDOXO]

54 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Posing the question…

- is it an average League?

- What constitutes an average league?

I’m guessing (from memory) that 53 points isn’t the average points total needed to stay up?

I think Ian is saying that it’s a tight league with little between the bulk of the teams. I’ve seen quite a bit of good football and games are tight, so perhaps the word average is a little out of context. Or perhaps it’s meant as a barb, that we are sixteenth in an average league, who knows!
 

A lot on the poddy has been said about who is coming down v who is going up and increased difficulty. I don’t really see a big difference with the usual suspects flirting with relegation and Sheff Wed with there biggish crowds possibly getting promotion. 
 

One thing for certain if we don’t make a mad dash for a play off spot and go up this season we look as though we are nicely placed for next. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by REDOXO

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I think Ian is saying that it’s a tight league with little between the bulk of the teams. I’ve seen quite a bit of good football and games are tight, so perhaps the word average is a little out of context. 
 

A lot on the poddy has been said about who is coming down v who is going up and increased difficulty. I don’t really see a big difference with the usual suspects flirting with relegation and Sheff Wed with there biggish crowds possibly getting promotion. 
 

One thing for certain if we don’t make a mad dash for a play off spot and go up this season we look as though we are nicely placed for next. 

Makes sense.  I’d probably call it “more competitive” than average, Burnley the exception.

[W-S-M Seagull]

On 19/02/2023 at 12:35, Davefevs said:

Re F/Ks…are they that bad?

Re Scott - he’s made the most assists of any City player this season.  He’s joint 13th in the Championship for assists!!!  Goals, yep, could do with improving that, but if you notice, the recent change has allowed him more freedom, and he’s starting to get into better position (plus of course has a cup goal v WBA - got 4 last season).  Brownhill was 21 when he scored 1 in his first season, got 5 the following season aged 22, ditto aged 23, he also took free-kicks too.  Alex just 19, and doing much more to influence games.  Let’s not get too dragged in to goals and assists as the measure of a player like Alex.  Agree with Ian on yesterday, good first half, but got a bit lost second half.  Got another opposition player booked though, a regular thing.

 

 

Starting to annoy me now that every week Ian mentions lack of goals and assists for Scott. He can put in a top performance and he will still criticise him for that. 

Despite Scott most likely being the most talented player to ever come through our academy, Ian always seems to speak about him negatively whilst ignoring all the good he does do on the pitch. 

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Starting to annoy me now that every week Ian mentions lack of goals and assists for Scott. He can put in a top performance and he will still criticise him for that. 

Despite Scott most likely being the most talented player to ever come through our academy, Ian always seems to speak about him negatively whilst ignoring all the good he does do on the pitch. 

All the while ignoring that he's been at WB or deeper midfield for a time and he's 19.

It'll take him a bit of time to get into the groove of getting into the area at the right time (he had chances to do that on saturday), but he'll get there between now and the end of the season. He's a very intelligent player and he'll learn.

[W-S-M Seagull]

On 19/02/2023 at 22:32, REDOXO said:

I think Ian is saying that it’s a tight league with little between the bulk of the teams. I’ve seen quite a bit of good football and games are tight, so perhaps the word average is a little out of context. Or perhaps it’s meant as a barb, that we are sixteenth in an average league, who knows!
 

A lot on the poddy has been said about who is coming down v who is going up and increased difficulty. I don’t really see a big difference with the usual suspects flirting with relegation and Sheff Wed with there biggish crowds possibly getting promotion. 
 

One thing for certain if we don’t make a mad dash for a play off spot and go up this season we look as though we are nicely placed for next. 

He's said this a few times and I can't really see it. 

I don't think any of the clubs that are likely to come up will make the league tougher. You'll always have one or two current Championship clubs that will regress too. 

From the prem one of them that come down will just replace Burnley. Maybe it will ever so slightly stronger league if two big clubs come down such as Leeds and Everton. However if it was Southampton, Bournemouth and Leeds and I don't it would be too much stronger. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

All the while ignoring that he's been at WB or deeper midfield for a time and he's 19.

It'll take him a bit of time to get into the groove of getting into the area at the right time (he had chances to do that on saturday), but he'll get there between now and the end of the season. He's a very intelligent player and he'll learn.

I just get the feeling he doesn't rate him. He doesn't see the talent that he has and that it's very likely he'll go to the top of the game. He doesn't think anyone would pay 25 million for him and bizarrely he keeps rambling on about selling him and then us loaning him back which very very rarely happens in football. 

Failed to also mention Scott's headed goal vs Italy in the Euros when the opportunity presented itself the other week I believe it was. 

[2015]

37 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Starting to annoy me now that every week Ian mentions lack of goals and assists for Scott. He can put in a top performance and he will still criticise him for that. 

Despite Scott most likely being the most talented player to ever come through our academy, Ian always seems to speak about him negatively whilst ignoring all the good he does do on the pitch. 

Based on numerous listens to the podcast over the past few seasons I would say that Alex Scott isn't really the sort of player Ian likes. He prefers more physical players. Just something i've picked up on anyway.

[Davefevs]

[fairweather]

Removed for being silly post

Edited February 21, 2023 by fairweather
Silly post

[frenchred]

10 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Starting to annoy me now that every week Ian mentions lack of goals and assists for Scott. He can put in a top performance and he will still criticise him for that. 

Despite Scott most likely being the most talented player to ever come through our academy, Ian always seems to speak about him negatively whilst ignoring all the good he does do on the pitch. 

Would you not agree that as our most advanced midfield player goals and assists are needed?

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Would you not agree that as our most advanced midfield player goals and assists are needed?

Too much emphasis on goals and assists as a measure of someone’s game / role, imho.  Last season, did it matter that WSM scored the glut of our goals? They scored 42 / 60 league goals last season.  Which is a very unusual balance.  As for Scott, it is only or more recent games (the change to 4213 / 433) that he’s played a much freer role.  He’s played a lot alongside James or a Williams as the “double pivot” too, and Weimann played behind Conway and Wells for example.

As I pointed out, Scott actually is joint 13th (Wyscout - 17th on BBC) across the whole championship for assists.  So that’s not an issue per se.  So if the argument was “he doesn’t get enough goals” I could see sort of see the case, but mentioning assists is a bit lazy, imho.

 

[frenchred]

20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Too much emphasis on goals and assists as a measure of someone’s game / role, imho.  Last season, did it matter that WSM scored the glut of our goals? They scored 42 / 60 league goals last season.  Which is a very unusual balance.  As for Scott, it is only or more recent games (the change to 4213 / 433) that he’s played a much freer role.  He’s played a lot alongside James or a Williams as the “double pivot” too, and Weimann played behind Conway and Wells for example.

As I pointed out, Scott actually is joint 13th (Wyscout - 17th on BBC) across the whole championship for assists.  So that’s not an issue per se.  So if the argument was “he doesn’t get enough goals” I could see sort of see the case, but mentioning assists is a bit lazy, imho.

 

Bit lazy stating WSM scored the glut of our goals last season when we don't have them here this season, others have to step up to the plate 

He doesn't score enough, I think that's clear for all to see for the position he plays 

Don't wanna spreadsheet but find the 13th or 17th for assists still pretty poor for the position he plays 

I rate Scott (who doesn't!) But a sense of realism.is.needed

 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Bit lazy stating WSM scored the glut of our goals last season when we don't have them here this season, others have to step up to the plate 

He doesn't score enough, I think that's clear for all to see for the position he plays 

Don't wanna spreadsheet but find the 13th or 17th for assists still pretty poor for the position he plays 

I rate Scott (who doesn't!) But a sense of realism.is.needed

 

 

 

 

Eh?  Why the tone?

All I did was bring an example to the debate of how sometimes goals are spread out (e.g. 07/08) and sometimes they aren’t.  Why is that lazy?

I’m not offering you a spreadsheet, just factual numbers that 5 league assists is high up in the Championship.  You can take that or leave it.  In the position he plays he’s actually joint 10th (behind Brownhill, N’Diaye, Crooks, Robinson more a forward than a midfielder, Barlaser, Bacuna, Wallace, Swift, Chair) alongside Norwood, but ahead of Hamer, Grimes, Molumby, Ince, Baker, Johansen, Pritchard, Roberts, O’Hare, Gudmundson, Berge, Hannibal, Weimann, etc.

You are fine to have your opinion that it’s not enough assists for the position he plays.  My opinion is that it’s a good level.  I’ve provided a list to hopefully explain why I think the way I do.

Did you not read the bit about goals in my post that you quoted?

[frenchred]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Eh?  Why the tone?

All I did was bring an example to the debate of how sometimes goals are spread out (e.g. 07/08) and sometimes they aren’t.  Why is that lazy?

I’m not offering you a spreadsheet, just factual numbers that 5 league assists is high up in the Championship.  You can take that or leave it.  In the position he plays he’s actually joint 10th (behind Brownhill, N’Diaye, Crooks, Robinson more a forward than a midfielder, Barlaser, Bacuna, Wallace, Swift, Chair) alongside Norwood, but ahead of Hamer, Grimes, Molumby, Ince, Baker, Johansen, Pritchard, Roberts, O’Hare, Gudmundson, Berge, Hannibal, Weimann, etc.

You are fine to have your opinion that it’s not enough assists for the position he plays.  My opinion is that it’s a good level.  I’ve provided a list to hopefully explain why I think the way I do.

Did you not read the bit about goals in my post that you quoted?

That's fair enough, I did see your bit about not enough goals on that we can agree 

We will just have a different opinion on assists, but that's fine

 

[Davefevs]

33 minutes ago, frenchred said:

That's fair enough, I did see your bit about not enough goals on that we can agree 

We will just have a different opinion on assists, but that's fine

 

Yep, OTIB = opinions = great forum