Ships on Club badges...

[Selred]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

If they want to change things then become a MP and get into government.

 

Well that's easy to do isn't it.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, Selred said:

Well that's easy to do isn't it.

Of course it isn’t easy but the best way to effect change 

[Robbored]

Watch this - 

One very angry young woman with the courage to take on JRM………..

Edited April 21, 2023 by Robbored

[italian dave]

Since this thread is evidently now being completely derailed by the usual suspect, I’m off. But just to say thanks @spudski for a good thread and discussion this morning. 

[Bazooka Joe]

This is just ship-stirring.

[Robbored]

10 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Since this thread is evidently now being completely derailed by the usual suspect, I’m off.

Threads get derailed on a very regular basis Italian Dave. I’d guess that around 80% go off topic.

[Red DNA]

Why hasn’t this statue to a black slave trader - in Africa, not been pulled down?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efunroye_Tinubu

 

[Selred]

28 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Of course it isn’t easy but the best way to effect change 

But an highly unlikely way to effect change. 650 MPs in 67 million people.

Clearly all the actions the Just Stop Oil and other groups have done have made an effect, as you've discussed them on here.

[lenred]

3 hours ago, lenred said:

Why is that ironic? 

Any update @Selred?

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, Selred said:

Well that's easy to do isn't it.

It is if the voting majority agree with their objectives and desire the same change

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

5 minutes ago, BigTone said:

It is if the voting majority agree with their objectives and desire the same change

And there is no more than one activist per constituency…

[Clutton Caveman]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Indeed. And, just to spread the net of controversy even further, and closer to home, the UK government is about to remove legal protection from modern slavery for people trafficked to the UK. 

People who have paid thousands of pounds to the traffickers and then announce themselves as refugees. Again we live in a democracy and IMO the majority do not want their hard earned tax used to put these people in 4 star hotels. Perhaps we should have an opt in system. If you want to house these people in luxury, give them access to the NHS, provide translators at every government department, pay benefits and then repeat when their families join them, opt in, double your tax (if you pay any)  and pay for it.

[robinforlife2]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Watch this - 

One very angry young woman with the courage to take on JRM………..

I like her. Speaks with passion, I wish politicians had her backbone. 

[Red-Robbo]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

Of course it isn’t easy but the best way to effect change 

 

Not really, pal.

Weekends off, paid holidays, the NHS, non-landowners' right to vote, freedom from religious tythes, the right to join a union, the right to a fair trial, pensions, a representative democracy, contraception rights etc etc etc....

All things that you can enjoy, won by campaigns undertaken, at least initially, outside of Parliament.

 

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, robinforlife2 said:

I like her. Speaks with passion, I wish politicians had her backbone. 

She speaks passionately and with the naivety of youth. I thought JRM was very patient with her extreme way of expressing her views. 

[Crackers Corner]

6 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

OMG, how can we take events in history and judge them by todays standards. At that time half of the Royal Navy crews woke on on board with the kings shilling in their hand having been knocked over the head and brought on board after a heavy night out. In Africa, Egypt and ancient Greece slavery was rife, way before what we see as the slave trade. The past is the past, we cannot change it and we don't have to be ashamed for what our ancestors did. We sent kids up chimneys but are we now saying that Chimney sweep companies should be punished.

True but what was the jolly Roger all about?

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Crackers Corner

[Med/MadHatter]

7 hours ago, The Original OTIB said:

RSPB?

Just tell em it's a pizza cutter not a bird

[italian dave]

56 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

People who have paid thousands of pounds to the traffickers and then announce themselves as refugees. Again we live in a democracy and IMO the majority do not want their hard earned tax used to put these people in 4 star hotels. Perhaps we should have an opt in system. If you want to house these people in luxury, give them access to the NHS, provide translators at every government department, pay benefits and then repeat when their families join them, opt in, double your tax (if you pay any)  and pay for it.

I’ve no problem with people who aren’t genuine refugees being sent away. But the point I was trying to make is that genuine refugees, and specifically genuine victims of modern slavery, will be sent packing without having any opportunity to make their case. We’ll be refusing genuine victims of slavery any protection. Is that right?

”These people” aren’t housed in luxury, and the reason we run up such massive bills is that the Home Office chooses (some would argue deliberately) to not assess their applications properly and promptly. And to keep them in abeyance for months or even years. Those costs are on our government, not asylum seekers.

Once they’ve been assessed and are genuine then would I be prepared to have my tax bill adjusted to pay for them? Very definitely. There are various ways of calculating the net cost to the country so different studies come up with different conclusions. Some calculate a net benefit to the economy - so I’d be quids in there, my taxes would go down. But even the ones that calculate a net cost suggest a very small one - one that would work out to no more than a few ££s on my bill. 

Plus, at the end of the day, they’ll be the people providing my health and social care when I need it and they’ll be the people paying the taxes to pay for it. 

[Tom]

Me when I come into a thread about an emotive topic that requires OTIB members to use critical thinking.



I think I'll save myself the exposure to whataboutism on this fine Friday.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

20 hours ago, miser said:

I'm a left leaning subscriber to the Guardian, but found the article very tenuous. Feels at times that the paper has a quota of politically correct articles to fulfill and this was written to that end. Next week there will be an expose of the lack of diversity within Bowls clubs. Not sure that these "stretch" article's really advance the debate.

Now you've done it!

[AshtonGreat]

1 hour ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

Now you've done it!

Don't worry, they're already on that

[Red-Robbo]

19 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

People who have paid thousands of pounds to the traffickers and then announce themselves as refugees. Again we live in a democracy and IMO the majority do not want their hard earned tax used to put these people in 4 star hotels. Perhaps we should have an opt in system. If you want to house these people in luxury, give them access to the NHS, provide translators at every government department, pay benefits and then repeat when their families join them, opt in, double your tax (if you pay any)  and pay for it.

 

I agree, but the way around it is to have more staff processing those claims so migrants/refugees are quickly assessed and either returned or allowed to live where they want in the country and earn money and pay taxes.

Very few are in "luxury" hotels, most are in run-down B&Bs in parts of the country where no one wants to go on holiday. They get £40 a week and are forbidden from working until their asylum claims are assessed.

Just shorten the process from months to days or weeks, then prolonged stays that neither the migrants or the taxpayers want take place.

Thing is, the government wants UK voters to be angry about this issue.  They figure somehow their deliberate incompetence on immigration, combined with meaningless rhetoric - flights to Rwanda costing £240,000 per person - is somehow a vote winner for them. 

[Calculus]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I agree, but the way around it is to have more staff processing those claims so migrants/refugees are quickly assessed and either returned or allowed to live where they want in the country and earn money and pay taxes.

Very few are in "luxury" hotels, most are in run-down B&Bs in parts of the country where no one wants to go on holiday. They get £40 a week and are forbidden from working until their asylum claims are assessed.

Just shorten the process from months to days or weeks, then prolonged stays that neither the migrants or the taxpayers want take place.

Thing is, the government wants UK voters to be angry about this issue.  They figure somehow their deliberate incompetence on immigration, combined with meaningless rhetoric - flights to Rwanda costing £240,000 per person - is somehow a vote winner for them. 

Agree that ideally the initial process needs to get down to 'days or weeks'. One of the issues would be the small industry of lawyers engaging in lengthy appeals processes. Perhaps we need some sort or triage process so that those that aren't fleeing war or persecution can be returned straight away. Suspect.a change of law might be necessary, not to mention issues with ECHR.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

I agree, but the way around it is to have more staff processing those claims so migrants/refugees are quickly assessed and either returned or allowed to live where they want in the country and earn money and pay taxes.

Very few are in "luxury" hotels, most are in run-down B&Bs in parts of the country where no one wants to go on holiday. They get £40 a week and are forbidden from working until their asylum claims are assessed.

Just shorten the process from months to days or weeks, then prolonged stays that neither the migrants or the taxpayers want take place.

Thing is, the government wants UK voters to be angry about this issue.  They figure somehow their deliberate incompetence on immigration, combined with meaningless rhetoric - flights to Rwanda costing £240,000 per person - is somehow a vote winner for them. 

Personally I think the whole asylum process needs to change throughout the world. 

The amount of people being displaced every year is rising and predicted to do so. 

South Americans were some of the highest amount of applications to Europe in the last few months. 

It's simply unsustainable long term, to have so many heading to Europe, especially when there are other countries doing very little to take people in. 

I look at Sweden, which has taken the most people...and the negative affect its had on the country in a very short time. 

The number of people in Sweden born abroad has doubled in the last two decades to 2 million, or a fifth of the population.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedish-pm-says-integration-immigrants-has-failed-fueled-gang-crime-2022-04-28/

We are purely looking short term. We should be looking long term. 

Some really good info on here. 

https://www.nrc.no/shorthand/fr/a-few-countries-take-responsibility-for-most-of-the-worlds-refugees/index.html

Edited April 22, 2023 by spudski

[cidered abroad]

On 21/04/2023 at 09:22, Silvio Dante said:

100% this. It’s a total non story and nobody is seriously suggesting it. Nobody’s coming to take away ships on badges. Golly dolls - yes, boats -no.

To be fair they had to redo it after the “A” bomb there 

For the bloody umpteenth time…

Thanks for your post. Like many others I did not know the history but wondered if the name "Blackboy" was a corruption from the French word for "wood - Bois".

Then on the Downs is the road "Ladies Mile" which is so named after the "working women" who made their living from the randy male population.

As for the history of so many towns and cities in Europe and Britain, every country in the world has abused other humans and many animals ever since our time on this Earth. We should never forget the past but use that knowledge to make ourselves better humans but treating all races and religions and other football teams with respect and equality.

 

[BigTone]

4 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

and other football teams with respect and equality.

 

Hold on mate, there are limits !!!

[Robbored]

“Next week there will be an expose of the lack of diversity within Bowls clubs”

In the local bowls fraternity I know of three non white players. Two women and one man so to those of a woke persuasion would have a case if they wanted to organise a protest…………

 

[Port Said Red]

Bristol, or at least merchant ships that sailed from here, was really only involved in the slave trade for around 15 years old n the early part of the 1700's. I realise that sounds like an attempt to minimize our involvement, but the point is that trading, merchant activity by sea and associated businesses were prominent from around the year 1000 to the 1990's, and if you include Avonmouth and Portbury it continues today. So, suggesting that a ship on a coat of arms represents 1.5% of the overall activity would seem very selective indeed.

[spudski]

13 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Thanks for your post. Like many others I did not know the history but wondered if the name "Blackboy" was a corruption from the French word for "wood - Bois".

Then on the Downs is the road "Ladies Mile" which is so named after the "working women" who made their living from the randy male population.

As for the history of so many towns and cities in Europe and Britain, every country in the world has abused other humans and many animals ever since our time on this Earth. We should never forget the past but use that knowledge to make ourselves better humans but treating all races and religions and other football teams with respect and equality.

 

I completely agree with the sentiment in your last paragraph. 

It would be great if everyone did the same. 

Sadly a lot of cultures and beliefs are at odds with one another. 

 

[TheReds]

On 21/04/2023 at 09:22, Silvio Dante said:

100% this. It’s a total non story and nobody is seriously suggesting it. Nobody’s coming to take away ships on badges. Golly dolls - yes, boats -no.

To be fair they had to redo it after the “A” bomb there 

For the bloody umpteenth time…

Marvin Rees was happy to go along with the racial aspect of both of these live on GMB after the Colston statue story,, and Susanna Reid said the names "made my skin crawl" when she was at University here. Never said a word previously until it suited her though as far as I'm aware. I think the Bristolian weatherman was on there as well at the same time, and not one of them said these names were probably not associated with slavery and were all more than happy to say they were. Amazing how they were all happy to go along with it to millions of viewers though, and all to suit the narrative at the time.