Man City v Arsenal

[MarcusX]

9 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

In order to bottle something, you have to be very close to attaining it. My argument is Arsenal have never been in a position where they've had anything like one hand on the trophy. 

I've can't recall seeing/hearing anyone saying confidently that Arsenal were going to win the title. 

I think it’s reasonable to say they’ve bottled it. It was in their hands with 8 games to go, they’ve dropped 2 goal leads in 2 consecutive games (the West Ham game was especially poor) and then almost lost to the worst team in the league, at home. That should have been 6 points minimum instead of 3.

They didn’t even need to beat City if they hadn’t dropped those points.

Liverpool were called bottlers for dropping a 7 point lead from December and finishing with 97 points!

[Kid in the Riot]

9 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

The joys of football is the difference in opinions I guess..

2-0 up vs Liverpool, 2-0 vs West Ham, 3-3 draw vs Southampton at home. If that isn’t bottling it I don’t know what is.

Purely out of interest now, if Man City failed to win the league from here on in, do you think they would have bottled it? Do you think they have one hand on the trophy now even though they have been in second place most the season and are still two points off Arsenal after tonight?

Given they have a much better squad, I'd say if Man C didn't win it from here, it'd be more of a bottle job than claiming Arsenal have bottled it at this point. 

However, I don't think Man C quite have one hand on the trophy yet. Could still be a twist or two, yet. 

[And Its Smith]

Every club has a bad run. Even Man City.  Arsenal are having theirs now. Doesn’t necessarily mean they’ve bottled it 

[Fordy62]

Obviously Arsenal outclassed tonight, by my word the Dias kick not being a red is one of the very worst decisions I’ve ever seen. And to think Clattenburg tried to justify it. Incredible. 

[Henry]

26 minutes ago, Rob k said:

So, at the end of the season, Arsenal finish 2nd and Man United third but they have won a final and in the FA Cup final? Who’s had the better season? 
 

I think the Man Utd fans would be happier than Arsenal’s

[Kid in the Riot]

28 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I think it’s reasonable to say they’ve bottled it. It was in their hands with 8 games to go, they’ve dropped 2 goal leads in 2 consecutive games (the West Ham game was especially poor) and then almost lost to the worst team in the league, at home. That should have been 6 points minimum instead of 3.

They didn’t even need to beat City if they hadn’t dropped those points.

Liverpool were called bottlers for dropping a 7 point lead from December and finishing with 97 points!

It was also in Man City's hands with 8 games to go... 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

KDB and Haaland just make it look too easy. 

For me, KDB is the best ever midfielder we have seen in the history of the premier league.

Second that.

(until Alex Scott gets there, of course!)

[TonyTonyTony]

24 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

the Dias kick not being a red is one of the very worst decisions I’ve ever seen

I thought it was a red card too. 

[ralphindevon]

2 hours ago, RedRock said:

So Sykes gets a 5 match ban for a petulant kick out. Ruben kicks out twice and gets a yellow. Seems fair.

Still angry about, 4 game ban for that was absolutely ridiculous and before anyone says but that’s the rules, I know it was the rules but they’re clearly way off what’s right.

A one game ban if it wasn’t a yellow like tonight, fine but 4 games for that…….

[Midred]

33 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Still angry about, 4 game ban for that was absolutely ridiculous and before anyone says but that’s the rules, I know it was the rules but they’re clearly way off what’s right.

A one game ban if it wasn’t a yellow like tonight, fine but 4 games for that…….

The FA  serm have a habit for when the rules count!

[Fordy62]

The KDB/Partey challenge is a good debate. I think no pen, but lots of people think otherwise. 

[hinsleburg]

23 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

The KDB/Partey challenge is a good debate. I think no pen, but lots of people think otherwise. 

I think penalty...

Only one of them has actually gone to play the ball, it's not like Partey has fully got his body there to shield the ball to me it's a trip.

I'm glad however, that when the free kick has been given VAR hasn't got involved, such a subjective call!

[redkev]

9 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

Obviously Arsenal outclassed tonight, by my word the Dias kick not being a red is one of the very worst decisions I’ve ever seen. And to think Clattenburg tried to justify it. Incredible. 

Sykes banned for 4 games for much less than that , take those 2 incidents into a meeting room show the footage to all the officials and there hierarchy then sit back and listen to the bullshit they churn out , 

i will tell you the difference , one team has Manchester in front of its city the other has Bristol easy as that .

[redkev]

8 hours ago, italian dave said:

Second that.

(until Alex Scott gets there, of course!)

Watching KDB is an absolute pleasure ,best player I have seen in the prem , ozzes class in his conduct and his play .

[Silvio Dante]

What’s interesting about Arsenal is the value of momentum and how one moment can change a seasons direction. From a city perspective, we all point to that Wolves game under LJ - the “moment” there you can argue was Frankie going off, but for me it was Pack giving away a silly free kick in the last minute. We don’t lose that, I’d have been confident we go up. It changed the entire momentum of the season.

With Arsenal, go back two weeks to the Liverpool game. 2-0 up and Xhaka gets involved needlessly with Alexander-Arnold. The Liverpool fans were quiet. It woke them up and the atmosphere became intense. Momentum passed to Liverpool.

If Arsenal don’t give Liverpool that momentum, they win that game. And winning at Anfield gives them confidence. They draw it, throw away a 2-0. And that eats into them at West Ham.

It’s a little thing but they didn’t “lose” the title tonight. They “lost” it after about 35 minutes at Anfield.

[Open End Numb Legs]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

That was incredibly embarrassing from Arsenal. Probably one of City's easiest wins of the season.

I only saw the highlights on MoTD last night but that Arsenal defence looked very open, just not tight enough, running away from players with the ball plus some rather average goal keeping too.

[Super]

9 minutes ago, redkev said:

Watching KDB is an absolute pleasure ,best player I have seen in the prem , ozzes class in his conduct and his play .

Chelsea have made many mistakes over the years but letting this guy go is right up there.

[Super]

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

What’s interesting about Arsenal is the value of momentum and how one moment can change a seasons direction. From a city perspective, we all point to that Wolves game under LJ - the “moment” there you can argue was Frankie going off, but for me it was Pack giving away a silly free kick in the last minute. We don’t lose that, I’d have been confident we go up. It changed the entire momentum of the season.

With Arsenal, go back two weeks to the Liverpool game. 2-0 up and Xhaka gets involved needlessly with Alexander-Arnold. The Liverpool fans were quiet. It woke them up and the atmosphere became intense. Momentum passed to Liverpool.

If Arsenal don’t give Liverpool that momentum, they win that game. And winning at Anfield gives them confidence. They draw it, throw away a 2-0. And that eats into them at West Ham.

It’s a little thing but they didn’t “lose” the title tonight. They “lost” it after about 35 minutes at Anfield.

See i don't see it that way. Before the game i reckon they would have taken a draw at Anfield so it wasn't the worst result and in the end were lucky to get a point. If Saka scores that pen to put them 3-1 up at West Ham they win that game and more than likely beat Southampton. They should be 6 points in front of Man City now.

[1960maaan]

10 minutes ago, Super said:

See i don't see it that way. Before the game i reckon they would have taken a draw at Anfield so it wasn't the worst result and in the end were lucky to get a point. If Saka scores that pen to put them 3-1 up at West Ham they win that game and more than likely beat Southampton. They should be 6 points in front of Man City now.

I would agree if it wasn't for how the scoring went. Arsenal 2-0 and dominant to 2-2 and panicy, for me it really knocks the wind out of their sails. They do the same Vs WHU , really must start to play on their nerves, specially as this is the first time they have been challenging for a while. The Saka Pen would/could have got them back on track, but again the pressure from losing a 2-0 previously . Being 2-0 & 3-1 down V Southampton plays on that, they looked off the pace and struggled to get going.
For all the years I've watched football, pundits have put store in, "being there and done it". It may well be a case of that. This Arsenal team are new to this chase, for Man City it looks like another day at the office, although they do look a different level.
TBF to Arsenal, Man City are a couple of years (at least)ahead in terms of development. Another good window this summer could see Arsenal stronger next year, I doubt even Arteta expected them to be up there so close this year.

[Silvio Dante]

4 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I would agree if it wasn't for how the scoring went. Arsenal 2-0 and dominant to 2-2 and panicy, for me it really knocks the wind out of their sails. They do the same Vs WHU , really must start to play on their nerves, specially as this is the first time they have been challenging for a while. The Saka Pen would/could have got them back on track, but again the pressure from losing a 2-0 previously . Being 2-0 & 3-1 down V Southampton plays on that, they looked off the pace and struggled to get going.
For all the years I've watched football, pundits have put store in, "being there and done it". It may well be a case of that. This Arsenal team are new to this chase, for Man City it looks like another day at the office, although they do look a different level.
TBF to Arsenal, Man City are a couple of years (at least)ahead in terms of development. Another good window this summer could see Arsenal stronger next year, I doubt even Arteta expected them to be up there so close this year.

Bingo - all about game management. The game, as much as it could be at that stage, was dead and they brought it back to life. I’m in no doubt they would have taken a point pre game, and I’d wager a battling 1-1 having come from behind would have seen different results Vs West Ham and Southampton, if not Man City. 
 

So much of football is psychological (see again when we kept conceding late goals). It’s not the result impact, it’s the psychological impact

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, redkev said:

Watching KDB is an absolute pleasure ,best player I have seen in the prem , ozzes class in his conduct and his play .

On the pitch, he’s still what I remember most vividly about our semi final games against them 5 years ago. 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

The KDB/Partey challenge is a good debate. I think no pen, but lots of people think otherwise. 

Why? Shielding the ball? 

Because I think that, to be entitled to ‘shield the ball’ like that,  you’ve got to have control of it, and he didn’t.

Otherwise,  how do you distinguish between a mistimed tackle and ‘shielding the ball’?!

As you say, interesting debate. 

 

[BCFCGav]

10 hours ago, Rob k said:

So, at the end of the season, Arsenal finish 2nd and Man United third but they have won a final and in the FA Cup final? Who’s had the better season? 
 

I've seen a bit of this debate on Twitter, it's Man United surely. Even if they lose the FA Cup final. Arsenal have been the better team this season, and played better football. But one trophy to nil means United have had the better season. 

[MarcusX]

10 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It was also in Man City's hands with 8 games to go... 

Yea I miscounted, I meant 9 games to go - eg at the point I was talking about when they blew 2 x 2 goal leads and then almost lost to bottom of the league at home.

[MarcusX]

1 hour ago, hinsleburg said:

I think penalty...

Only one of them has actually gone to play the ball, it's not like Partey has fully got his body there to shield the ball to me it's a trip.

I'm glad however, that when the free kick has been given VAR hasn't got involved, such a subjective call!

I'm actually surprised it didn't. It's one of those that the more you watch, the more it looks like a foul.

I said earlier, it's akin to the classic defender shielding the ball out of play or running across a striker and "getting in front". They've not touched the ball, but it's accepted that they're able to do that.

I think Partey "got in front" by a split second, he puts his foot across to shield the ball and then gets kicked. Similar to how the likes of Grealish and Alex Scott often win so many fouls.

Either way, VAR would have looked at it, they've just decided it wasn't a mistake by a ref or worth looking twice at. Given some of the decisions VAR has made, I'm surprised it wasn't overruled because although I can see what Partey was doing - clearly what he's actually done is block De Bruyne from shooting without making contact with the ball.

A very interesting debate

[maxjak]

16 hours ago, maxjak said:

Would love an Arsenal victory.............but just cannot see it............Unfortunately 3-1 to City.   But really hope i am wrong.   It seems most posters would like a Gooners win......but realistically realise it is unlikely?

Nearly got it...........it played out just as i imagined........the master vs apprentice.    Arsenal have fallen short,, but have still had an outstanding season, next season they will be even better.  As long as they stay above Manure Utd i am happy....Ha!

[RUSSEL85]

Arsenal looked very open, more so without Saliba. They lost the title at West Ham imo, but certainly a missed opportunity last few games.

[Fordy62]

4 hours ago, italian dave said:

Why? Shielding the ball? 

Because I think that, to be entitled to ‘shield the ball’ like that,  you’ve got to have control of it, and he didn’t.

Otherwise,  how do you distinguish between a mistimed tackle and ‘shielding the ball’?!

As you say, interesting debate. 

 

Oooh, I’ll bite! Defenders shield the ball out of play all the time. 

So your answer begs the question, how long do you have to shield the ball for in order to be in possession of it? There can’t be a time, Partey puts his leg in a position where it can be claimed that he’s shielding it and KDB kicks him. Ref defo go that right IMO - but I accept there is room for debate. It’s a really interesting one. 

[MarcusX]

11 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Oooh, I’ll bite! Defenders shield the ball out of play all the time. 

So your answer begs the question, how long do you have to shield the ball for in order to be in possession of it? There can’t be a time, Partey puts his leg in a position where it can be claimed that he’s shielding it and KDB kicks him. Ref defo go that right IMO - but I accept there is room for debate. It’s a really interesting one. 

Yep thats the call I reckon was made by the ref and VAR have said it's too subjective to over rule. Still surprised he didn't ask the ref to take another look, but can certainly see that as the reasoning and despite my view being it's probably a penalty, can easily see why it's not.

[italian dave]

8 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Oooh, I’ll bite! Defenders shield the ball out of play all the time. 

So your answer begs the question, how long do you have to shield the ball for in order to be in possession of it? There can’t be a time, Partey puts his leg in a position where it can be claimed that he’s shielding it and KDB kicks him. Ref defo go that right IMO - but I accept there is room for debate. It’s a really interesting one. 

. Yes, and sometimes the way defenders shield it out borders on what would have constituted obstruction in years gone by. 

But at least they have got themselves into a position where they have their body between the ball and the opponent. That’s the difference.

Surely if you’re going to consider that simply getting your foot between the ball and the opponent constitutes ‘possession’ then half the trips that give rise to free kicks are actually legal! 

Who’d be a referee!!