Ryley Towler Value

[Tinmans Love Child]

Saw this, good to see him do so well!  Not sure on the value accuracy or not but good for us I guess!

[Leveller]

2 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

This will be framed by many as a bad thing, a mistake etc. But to me this is good news. 

We've taken a smaller fee with a substantial sell on for a player who, imo, would never have realised his potential here at this level. If he continues to progress, puts together a significantly good season for Pompey next year then we will be in line for a significantly bigger fee than we otherwise might have got.

Sometimes a change in environment and a bit of adversity is the making of a player/person. He'll have built so much resilience through the move/rejection here. Now he can play with a chip on his shoulder, determined to prove his worth. It did Tom Brady well after all. 

 

Good for him. Hope he does it. 

But if he had stayed, he would clearly be a good selection for us right now.

And I see Wes Burns is in the same list of players  of increased value.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Leveller

[Major Isewater]

8 minutes ago, Leveller said:

But if he had stayed, he would clearly be a good selection for us right now.

And I see Wes Burns is in the same list of players  of increased value.

I am a fan of Wes Burns , he has made a career after coming through an academy that didn’t have the same quality as today. He has pace and that is precious in the modern game.

 

[Sir Geoff]

36 minutes ago, Leveller said:

But if he had stayed, he would clearly be a good selection for us right now.

And I see Wes Burns is in the same list of players  of increased value.

In place of.............?

[sh1t_ref_again]

Find the rush to knock the club "we should have kept or what a mistake we made" sentiment of these threads a bit frustrating.

The club has to make a decision on if to keep a player when they are young and not always reached their potential, so have to decide what the level they may go on to achieve and if it's worth our continued investment in time money etc.

As fans most of us only get to see a tiny snippet of what these players are like on the pitch as they are usually playing for the development sides or off on loan, but even if we see them play, we do not know about attitude (one of the most important factors if they have skill) or what distractions they have outside of football.

When you released players you will not always get it right, or maybe the issues the club sees with an individual go away as the player has received a kick up the back side by being released, so we cannot know if they would have been the same had they stayed.

I am not saying any of the players mentioned had problems, but for whatever reason the team that have had years of experience of identifying talent have decided they will not benefit the club going forward, I am sure its not something they do if they think money can be made in the future.

Sometimes these players need to move on for a fresh start and a different environment or coach, some will have careers, but most just disappear.

[Davefevs]

….and @sh1t_ref_again, how often are we actually bitten on the arse?  Rarely.

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

But if he had stayed, he would clearly be a good selection for us right now.

Hindsight, Leveller!

Atkinson was fit when he left. We had Naismith, we had Pring. We have good young LCBs coming down the pathway - one of them might be even better than Towler! 

Nothing to see here, imo - young player decided to leave to play first team games rather than our reserves or occasionally sit on our bench.     

[tin]

The devil is in the detail . I’d imagine we have a hefty sell-on (40%?) and maybe even a buy-back clause.

[ExiledAjax]

49 minutes ago, tin said:

The devil is in the detail . I’d imagine we have a hefty sell-on (40%?) and maybe even a buy-back clause.

And this is exactly why we put sell on clauses in. 

When we sell these very young players we know (maybe even hope) there's a chance that they improve beyond the value we sell them for. Hence the sell on which gives us the benefit of some of that gain. It's anti-embarrassment and allows us to sell the player who isn't good enough right at that moment, build our squad, and then still get some cash later.

There's nothing to see here bar the excellent possibility of a healthy sell on and yet another success story for our academy.

Edited May 2, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Davefevs]

54 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Hindsight, Leveller!

Atkinson was fit when he left. We had Naismith, we had Pring. We have good young LCBs coming down the pathway - one of them might be even better than Towler! 

Nothing to see here, imo - young player decided to leave to play first team games rather than our reserves or occasionally sit on our bench.     

Yep, Nige went as far to say had Towler been here, he’d have still picked Pring or Tanner at CB ahead if Ryley.  Okay, I suspect some of that is him being a bit “clever”, but the point has merits.  Couple that with what is in the academy coming behind and it made for a grown-up conversation and decision from both parties.

Had Portsmouth not come in, he’d be still be on loan at Wimbledon, wondering whether he could have a pre-season that forced him into Nige’s plans.  All things being equal, Vyner continued his form, Atkinson didn’t get injured and continued his form, Kalas came back from injury and proved what a good player he is, with Naismith playing in CM but able to cover, with Nige entering the market this summer to bring in the ball winner he desperately wants.  That still leaves Ryley on the outside, he’s not forcing himself ahead of those 4 plus a new signing.  He’s likely to be going out on loan again isn’t he?

I admire him for evaluating the offer he got out of the blue, deciding to leave, and playing really well.  He’s taken control of his destiny.  It appears from chatting to Tins, that City were happy for him to stay, but they left it to him to decide.

[tin]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

And this is exactly why we put sell on clauses in. 

When we sell these very young players we know (maybe even hope) there's a chance that they improve beyond the value we sell them for. Hence the sell on which gives us the benefit of some of that gain. It's anti-embarrassment and allows us to sell the player who isn't good enough right at that moment, build our squad, and then still get some cash later.

There's nothing to see here bar the excellent possibility of a healthy sell on and yet another success story for our academy.

I’d like to think that after not including a sell-on in the sale of Andy Cole to Newcastle 30 years ago, every sale of a player under 26 has a sell-on clause in the deal. Once bitten, twice shy. 

[Rebounder]

2 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Find the rush to knock the club "we should have kept or what a mistake we made" sentiment of these threads a bit frustrating.

The club has to make a decision on if to keep a player when they are young and not always reached their potential, so have to decide what the level they may go on to achieve and if it's worth our continued investment in time money etc.

As fans most of us only get to see a tiny snippet of what these players are like on the pitch as they are usually playing for the development sides or off on loan, but even if we see them play, we do not know about attitude (one of the most important factors if they have skill) or what distractions they have outside of football.

When you released players you will not always get it right, or maybe the issues the club sees with an individual go away as the player has received a kick up the back side by being released, so we cannot know if they would have been the same had they stayed.

I am not saying any of the players mentioned had problems, but for whatever reason the team that have had years of experience of identifying talent have decided they will not benefit the club going forward, I am sure its not something they do if they think money can be made in the future.

Sometimes these players need to move on for a fresh start and a different environment or coach, some will have careers, but most just disappear.

Patino is a recent example. He could stay at Arsenal and go on another 2-3 loans, and before he knows it he is 23/24 not quite making the grade and settling into a side. The club and the player lose out. So he's asking for a move which could go either way, but likely gives him a better chance of playing in a settled side. 

As our academy is better we need to get used to players that look decent moving on, and should see it as a positive in terms of future money generation and also attracting young players to us. I don't really believe that we need to always think of it terms of a mistake when a player moves on and does well as it may still have been the right decision at that time. 

I think clubs, and especially players are realising that the approach of trying to stock players and loan them out constantly isn't the best thing for anyone involved. 

[LondonBristolian]

3 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I am a fan of Wes Burns , he has made a career after coming through an academy that didn’t have the same quality as today. He has pace and that is precious in the modern game.

 

I do wonder what would have happened with Burns if he had come through at a time when young players were getting the same opportunities as they are now. I think we were right to let him go when we did but I also feel his development was held back by too few chances. Similar with Morrell. Would League One still have been his level if he had been given more chances at Championship level at a younger age?

[MarcusX]

3 hours ago, Leveller said:

But if he had stayed, he would clearly be a good selection for us right now.

And I see Wes Burns is in the same list of players  of increased value.

He’s only a “good” selection now because he’s had regular game time. He wouldn’t have got any of that here until the injuries

[Nogbad the Bad]

Looking at the Pompey forum Towler had a torrid time against Port Vale, was subbed and dropped from the squad for the next match.

He may generally have done well at Portsmouth (don't know) but if he's being subbed and dropped by a moderate 3rd division team for being given the runaround by the likes of Ellis Harrison then there's nothing to suggest he's Championship standard or that City made a mistake allowing him to pursue his career elsewhere.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Looking at the Pompey forum Towler had a torrid time against Port Vale, was subbed and dropped from the squad for the next match.

He may generally have done well at Portsmouth (don't know) but if he's being subbed and dropped by a moderate 3rd division team for being given the runaround by the likes of Ellis Harrison then there's nothing to suggest he's Championship standard or that City made a mistake allowing him to pursue his career elsewhere.

Agreed.

It is also well worth saying that a transfermarkt value is far from gospel. Just a couple of examples:

Currently they value Conway at €1.2m. We'd be looking for a total deal of 10x that should we sell him this summer I suspect.

When he went for circa £10m they had Semenyo "valued" at about €3m.

And they value Scott at €14m. Which is significantly below what we currently expect to get for him.

So yeh, far from gospel.

[Tinmans Love Child]

4 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Find the rush to knock the club "we should have kept or what a mistake we made" sentiment of these threads a bit frustrating.

The club has to make a decision on if to keep a player when they are young and not always reached their potential, so have to decide what the level they may go on to achieve and if it's worth our continued investment in time money etc.

As fans most of us only get to see a tiny snippet of what these players are like on the pitch as they are usually playing for the development sides or off on loan, but even if we see them play, we do not know about attitude (one of the most important factors if they have skill) or what distractions they have outside of football.

When you released players you will not always get it right, or maybe the issues the club sees with an individual go away as the player has received a kick up the back side by being released, so we cannot know if they would have been the same had they stayed.

I am not saying any of the players mentioned had problems, but for whatever reason the team that have had years of experience of identifying talent have decided they will not benefit the club going forward, I am sure its not something they do if they think money can be made in the future.

Sometimes these players need to move on for a fresh start and a different environment or coach, some will have careers, but most just disappear.

I didn't start this thread to knock the club, and if it came across that way then apologies, I was more pleased for Towler than anything else

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Agreed.

It is also well worth saying that a transfermarkt value is far from gospel. Just a couple of examples:

Currently they value Conway at €1.2m. We'd be looking for a total deal of 10x that should we sell him this summer I suspect.

When he went for circa £10m they had Semenyo "valued" at about €3m.

And they value Scott at €14m. Which is significantly below what we currently expect to get for him.

So yeh, far from gospel.

Valuations in TM are done via a combo of algorithms or input from user groups.  As you say, far from gospel.

[Lanterne Rouge]

I still believe that the move was more down to Ryley than the club. At the stage of his career he was at, if a relatively big club like Pompey come calling he`d be a fool not to take the chance - it may never happen again. It says a lot about the lad that he was prepared to leave his comfort zone and put himself in the spotlight at a big club. It could have gone horribly wrong but it hasn`t and all credit to him and to the club for not standing in his way.

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Looking at the Pompey forum Towler had a torrid time against Port Vale, was subbed and dropped from the squad for the next match.

He may generally have done well at Portsmouth (don't know) but if he's being subbed and dropped by a moderate 3rd division team for being given the runaround by the likes of Ellis Harrison then there's nothing to suggest he's Championship standard or that City made a mistake allowing him to pursue his career elsewhere.

It does , without knowing the ins and outs , look strange. But allowing for the fact it's his first proper season of games I think it's down to youth and experience.
He played 17 games in L2, most of those he seemed to get praise, I follow a Wimbledon fan on Twitter and he was constantly questioning why he wasn't playing for us. For Portsmouth played 14 full 90's before that PV game, then  not in squad , back on the bench twice , then not in squad again. Since played 90 & 84 minutes, so I'm sticking with blip, though I've not watched him other than the odd highlights .
Not saying he's Championship standard, at least not yet, but I think he's doing more than ok ATM.

[sh1t_ref_again]

1 hour ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

I didn't start this thread to knock the club, and if it came across that way then apologies, I was more pleased for Towler than anything else

No apologies needed, it was not aimed at you, but the way these threads always seem to develop

[Leveller]

16 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

No apologies needed, it was not aimed at you, but the way these threads always seem to develop

Just because we discuss whether letting a player go was the right decision, it doesn’t mean the club is being attacked.

Personally I would have kept Towler and let Burns go, but that’s only based on limited views of both. Clearly the club coaches see much more.

[Victory Park Reds]

On 02/05/2023 at 13:15, tin said:

I’d like to think that after not including a sell-on in the sale of Andy Cole to Newcastle 30 years ago, every sale of a player under 26 has a sell-on clause in the deal. Once bitten, twice shy. 

I still get angry about this 30 yrs later! I dislike Mark Ashton as much as his own family and friends do but his transfer dealing did seem to be his thing.We just need Webster/Brownhill and Kelly to **** off to other clubs.

Sorry as you were Mark Ashton is a right proper wrong un.

As for Riley Towler I really hope that he does well in career.Good luck to the young lad.

[spudski]

On 02/05/2023 at 10:21, Major Isewater said:

I am a fan of Wes Burns , he has made a career after coming through an academy that didn’t have the same quality as today. He has pace and that is precious in the modern game.

 

He's actually one player, that I think had he been here under better coaching, would have been further ahead in his career. 

For all your jovial remarks on the forum...when you do comment on football seriously, you have an ' eye' Major. 

 

[chinapig]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

He's actually one player, that I think had he been here under better coaching, would have been further ahead in his career. 

For all your jovial remarks on the forum...when you do comment on football seriously, you have an ' eye' Major. 

 

The irony is he has flourished in a position he didn't much like when he was here, preferring to be seen as a striker.

Kudos to him though for building his career the hard way.

[spudski]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

The irony is he has flourished in a position he didn't much like when he was here, preferring to be seen as a striker.

Kudos to him though for building his career the hard way.

I remember watching him playing as a striker for us in the ' reserves' for want of a better title back then...he shone, and scored. Was quick, reacted and read the game well in that position. I was sad when he left, as I thought he had a future here at this level. In this case, i would be happy to be proved right.