What will be the expectations for next season?

[glynriley]

6 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

It’s impossible to predict how we will do until we know who is in the league, and how all of the clubs are affected by player movement both in and out.

Even then this league is utterly unpredictable, as we all know.

The loss of Scott, yes, I believe he will almost certainly go, will be difficult but, I am certain that Nige and Tins will have been preparing for that.

To 6 would be excellent but it’s going to be difficult just like it is every season.

I do feel we are making significant progress and will continue to do so.

The key to that is keeping Nige which may be harder than we expect, not because he will get other offers but more so that he might decide he has had enough of the whole thing and go off and do other things.

 

I don't think the OP is bothered about things like that, and isn't really interested in the opinions of others.

Expect this thread to be dragged up by him/her if we don't get off to a good start.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by glynriley

[Davefevs]

Top 2 - okay

Top 6 - okay

Top half - okay

Bottom half - okay

Relegated - okay

Pretty futile at this point.

[BigTone]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Top 2 - okay

Top 6 - okay

Top half - okay

Bottom half - okay

Relegated - okay

Pretty futile at this point.

Okay

[BetterRedthanBlue]

Expectations are growth and continuing to push towards the play offs. Ideally top 10, automatic or plays offs to me would be better than expected.

[pillred]

14 hours ago, BS3_RED said:

As with any season in the championship for a club our size......Promotion. 

 

 

No, mid table would be fine. 

Why? Its collective acceptance of mid-table will be acceptable, progress etc that is probably the reason we are still where we are, sorry if that seems harsh but at the risk of repeating myself the last time we were in the top flight I was 24, I have now been receiving my state pension for well over a year and another season of being happy to be mid-table is just not good enough for me. I hope we use the money from the Scott sale to really give it a go next season. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by pillred

[Negan]

Let’s be honest, Luton, Coventry and Millwall are all “our level” kind of club in this league. I know Millwall fell short at the end but the fact they were in it up until the last game of the season was great. If those 3 teams are challenging for top 6 then there is NO reason why we can’t. It NEEDS to be a top 10 season at an absolute minimum for me otherwise it’s time to move on from Nige. It can’t be another season like this. However without knowing the ins and outs it’s hard to say. You also never know if you’re going to fall victim to an injury hit season, so many factors involved. With the ambition and position we are in with manager/squad though it’s got to be a season where we’re challenging. There’s no more excuses now. Clubs with less resources are out performing us year on year, fingers crossed we can actually spend a bit this window, shame that means losing Scott though.  

[Fuber]

Generally, trend is upwards - and I'd personally hope for that to continue.

I.e. if we better our proportionate points tally, improve defensively and offensively, even if marginally, I'd take it as long as performances are maintained or better - so less soft goals conceded and lapses of concentration.

Hypothetically, lets say we finish 12th next season - but lost key players to injury, conceded less, and new signings have bedded in; I'd take it - just some stability where we're not selling and buying buckets loads of players for the sake of it, and we can keep seeing an identity on the pitch.

If there isn't any injury issues or other unexpected problems that arise - anything below 13th next season I'd consider disappointing - and possibly consider letting Nige leave at the end of his contract and review options to take over.

17 hours ago, Super said:

Surely it's a discussion when we know the ins and outs?

17 hours ago, Top Robin said:

That should have nothing to do with it.

On balance I'd probably agree with TR - I'm an advocate and always have been for NP, but this is Nige's first proper window when he should have resources to build with - if there's any season we should be improving, even if marginally, it should be this season. But hey - opinions etc. There is an element re to the ins-and-outs element, but even if Scott stays we should have some headroom for one or two fees with the reduction in wages of TK and JD, along with Taylor Moore etc leaving.

16 hours ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Halfway i reckon as you said league 1 players can only get you so far look at Boro loans from villa but quality signings . 

I'd be surprised if we didn't try looking abroad as well - but can't say I agree with the general statement here at least in respect of the loans element. Not that I'm against loans completely, but they hamstring you with regards to replacement cost when you lose them end of season. What are Boro going to do end of season? - They arguably only work if you make it up, which we simply can't afford.

If properly scouted, there are some complete gems in the lower leagues and teams that have got the PL have had an eclectic mix regarding recruitment, for example, if you look at the core of Brentfords promotion winning team as a sample;

David Raya (£3m, Blackburn), Mads Roerslav (Nom. Fee, Copenhagen), Pontus Jansson (£5m Leeds), Ethan Pinnock (£3m, Barnsley), Rico Henry (£1m - rising to £5m with add-ons, Walsall), Matthias Jenson (3m, Fiorentina), Josh DaSilva (Free, Arsenal), Shandon Baptiste (£2m, Oxford), Marcus Forss (Free, WBA), Bryan Mbuemo (£5,8m, Troyes), and Ivan Toney (£5m, Peterborough).

This was able to happen due to reinvestment of players sold - but with a strict wage cap. Whats notable is that a portion of players came from abroad (Roerslav, Jensen, Mbuemo) but a bigger portion came from academy releases or nominal fee purchases (Roerslav again, DaSilva, Forss) and investment in Championship and League One players (Raya, Jansson, for experience the latter from CH; then Pinnock, Henry, Baptiste, and Ivan Toney) 

Other members of their squad signed from lower in the football league pyramid or former academy players include Konsa signed from Charlton (sold for £12.5m), Mepham from their academy having been released by Chelsea (sold for £12m), Sawyers signed from Walsall alongside Henry (sold for £3m), Watkins signed from Exeter (sold to Villa for £20m+) as examples.

Where a player is playing shouldn't matter if they're good enough technically, motivated, and our coaching team are effective.

[Bristol Oil Services]

20 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Auto......off the scale orgasmic

Play offs.....excellent

Position 10 to 6.....acceptable

Below 10....failure 

Option 3 for me, 10th to 6th. Although I wouldn’t call 11th or 12th "failure." Mind, if they Green 'Uns come up and storm into 5th or 6th I will be fuming

[Supersonic Robin]

19 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

I don’t really subscribe to this ‘just improve on last season, 13th, progress’ idea as we’ve done that, got to 8th… then fell back towards battling relegation.

It doesn’t always have to be slow and steady. Sunderland were League 1 last season, but saw a chance for the play-offs right now and took it. Next season will be our 9th at this level, while we’ve been here many teams have hit the right formula and taken their chance. 

Right now we have a good, hungry young team, a good manager and everything off the pitch is PL ready. So next season, we go for top 6. If we don’t make it, so be it. But we push hard for the play-offs, they’re doable!

Interesting point. I was certainly guilty of celebrating the "success" of creeping up the table a couple of places per season under LJ/MA. I suppose the important difference is sustainability - with the way we were run under LJ/MA we didn't have the time to wait 5 years, we had to go up pretty rapidly to justify the spending. We now seem to be being run much more sustainably, and perhaps we can therefore have more patience with creeping up the table.

You're right though, there are lots of examples to show that getting into the play offs doesn't need to be a 10 year process. Sunderland (1 season) and Coventry (3 seasons) the examples from this year.
There's been lots of conversation on the forum in the past about "not keeping our best players". I'm not actually convinced we lose our best players faster than any other midtable championship team - I think the issue may actually be that we just don't capitalise on those players in the same way other teams do. When other teams have a star player, the club rises through the league(s) at a similar rate to the player (e.g. Coventry and Gyokeres). When we have a star player, we have often stagnated whilst that player outgrows us.

Not sure what a realistic aim for us would be next season, but it's definitely the case there there will/should be more expectation. Pearson has had some very reasonable mitigating factors for the last couple of years, but it seems as though we're finally at a point where we can expect more than to just 'stay afloat'.

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, pillred said:

Why? Its collective acceptance of mid-table will be acceptable, progress etc that is probably the reason we are still where we are, sorry if that seems harsh but at the risk of repeating myself the last time we were in the top flight I was 24, I have now been receiving my state pension for well over a year and another season of being happy to be mid-table is just not good enough for me. I hope we use the money from the Scott sale to really give it a go next season. 

I have some sympathy with what you are saying but, as has been mentioned on this thread and elsewhere , even if Scott goes for £25m it is not possible to spend a high percentage of that on fees and wages, much as we may want to.

The club loses significant sums every single season regardless of transfer revenues and it has been made clear by the CEO and NP not to expect big money to be spent. A lot of the potential cash from Scott’s will be retained to reduce the on-going losses, that has not been hidden from us.

We are going to have to rely on good value for money recruitment supplemented by more academy ‘graduates ‘. 

I am not a fan of FFP as it is biased towards clubs that either generate more revenue than us or have PP’s.

There are clubs that have done well without these elements, not least this season, but they are further down the road than us. I know it’s a broken record but the damage that the LJ and MA period did financially has been huge, albeit approved by SL. 

As an aside, it will be interesting to observe what happens financially regarding transfers at Portman Road this summer. 

[Davefevs]

22 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Where a player is playing shouldn't matter if they're good enough technically, motivated, and our coaching team are effective.

Boom.

Not enough smart recruitment done, all a bit safe really across the Champ.

But their are a few players who moved last season who’ve showed that you can get it right:

• Scott Twine (Lg1 PO)
• Brandon Thomas-Assante (Lg2)
• Jack Rudoni (Lg1 relegated)
• Mark Sykes (Lg1)
• Harry Darling (Lg1 PO)

Only Twine was a significant fee.

There are of course failures too, but a below Champ player can come straight in and make an impact.

 

 

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Boom.

Not enough smart recruitment done, all a bit safe really across the Champ.

But their are a few players who moved last season who’ve showed that you can get it right:

• Scott Twine (Lg1 PO)
• Brandon Thomas-Assante (Lg2)
• Jack Rudoni (Lg1 relegated)
• Mark Sykes (Lg1)
• Harry Darling (Lg1 PO)

Only Twine was a significant fee.

There are of course failures too, but a below Champ player can come straight in and make an impact.

Atkinson and Tanner as well, although both from the season before IIRC.

Sykes has been such a good signing though, I really don't think that transfer gets enough credit. He could be POTY next season I reckon.

[sunningdalered]

I do think that next season we should start to see what NP can do, coaching-wise, with a squad of players that he trusts more to play in a particular way. Can he deliver a team that plays with greater general movement, is less predictable and is bloody hard to beat? Look at the teams who finished above us this season, especially in places 2 to 6. There is some very effective coaching, with a range of playing styles, in there. What they all had was bags of self belief. If he can send a side out each week that gives itself more than a 50:50 chance of winning it could make a big difference. 

[sunningdalered]

14 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Atkinson and Tanner as well, although both from the season before IIRC.

Sykes has been such a good signing though, I really don't think that transfer gets enough credit. He could be POTY next season I reckon.

I would love to see you be right about Sykes. Like with any young player, predicting the ceiling for their potential is incredibly difficult. Seems to have plenty of self belief, so hopefully he will grow as a player and develop the slight swagger that marks out the special ones! 

[DaveInSA]

10 minutes ago, sunningdalered said:

I do think that next season we should start to see what NP can do, coaching-wise, with a squad of players that he trusts more to play in a particular way. Can he deliver a team that plays with greater general movement, is less predictable and is bloody hard to beat? Look at the teams who finished above us this season, especially in places 2 to 6. There is some very effective coaching, with a range of playing styles, in there. What they all had was bags of self belief. If he can send a side out each week that gives itself more than a 50:50 chance of winning it could make a big difference. 

Head on nail.

We've had players with talent and ability for the past 5-6 seasons. What we have not had is players that collectively believe that they are going to win. And that they deserve to win - until very recently.

My hope is that we can buy wisely, get more steely and be a little more incisive in attack. If we can do this, and have the belief we can actully win games, then we should do much better than this season.

If we achieve that - another 10 points would be a good return. 69-70 points it is then.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, sunningdalered said:

I would love to see you be right about Sykes. Like with any young player, predicting the ceiling for their potential is incredibly difficult. Seems to have plenty of self belief, so hopefully he will grow as a player and develop the slight swagger that marks out the special ones! 

Turns 26 on 4 August so he's not really "young" next season. More in the first year of his prime years. Full pre-season ahead of him, bit of bulking, clear role in the team.

6 goals and 2 assists this season.

I expect him to do better than those numbers next season. 

[Davefevs]

45 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Turns 26 on 4 August so he's not really "young" next season. More in the first year of his prime years. Full pre-season ahead of him, bit of bulking, clear role in the team.

6 goals and 2 assists this season.

I expect him to do better than those numbers next season. 

I don’t believe any City “midfielder” (non-striker) has beat 5 league goals since we’ve been back up.  Brownhill got 5 league goals three times, Joe Bryan once, Aden Flint (CB) twice.

[1960maaan]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t believe any City “midfielder” (non-striker) has beat 5 league goals since we’ve been back up.  Brownhill got 5 league goals three times, Joe Bryan once, Aden Flint (CB) twice.

Paterson 19/20 - 7 

Lee Tomlin got 6 in 16/17

Just been looking and it's really poor pickings as far as goals from anyone but strikers go. We need another to back Sykes up, whether that's a "new" player or a tweak in roles/attitudes from someone here already.

[Davefevs]

Ta Mike…not sure how I missed those.

[Cityboy1954]

12 hours ago, Bris Red said:

Indeed. As much as i am supportive of the current transfer policy of signing young up and coming League 1 and 2 players (Mehmeti being a good example) more often than not it is too much of an expectation to assume these players are going to come in and step up straight away to the rigors of Championship football. 

League position is all hypothetical until we know what business is done this summer, however i feel if we are serious about an assault on the top 6 we may need to take the gamble on a couple of Championship ‘ready’ players whether that be loans or perm signings.

For the first time since the summer of 2019 we will have some serious funds in the kitty. I fully trust Pearson to add the necessary quality needed to take us to that next level.

It’s of course a gamble as we know from experience that throwing ££ at it at this level isn’t a guarantee for success, but i feel Pearson will give it a much better go than LJ and MA did.
 

Gone are the days of just scatter gun signings and anyone who is brought in for a substantial transfer or loan fee will be right for the club and system that Pearson is looking to implement IMO. I’m certainly excited and intrigued to see what Pearson can do with a bit of cash at his disposal..

 

Great post i agree think we got some great young kids coming through but need quality of say the likes of the villa loanees of Archer and Ramsey too push us over the half way barrier lets hope nige gets a few bob to achieve this .

[Out of his pie crust]

Win more than we lose. If we do that it will be an improvement 

[cidered abroad]

11 hours ago, chinapig said:

It took Alan Dicks 11 years at a time when the financial disparity between clubs was nowhere near what it is today. He too prioritised developing young players.

It took him (AD) from 1967 until 1976 to get us in the First Division. Nine years. 

He started without a youth policy, a first team that had lost Atyeo a year before, several that were ready for replacing, Connor, Briggs, Ford, Bush, Low. And Dicks, himself, was a raw young manager.

Pearson has a big advantage as the young ones who he's been able to use in the first team were already here, and he's had twenty years management experience..

So Dicks nine years is reducible. We've had two and a half seasons with NP and in that time he is where AD was in 1972 with young ones in the first team, Merrick, Gow, Tainton, Ritchie etc.and able to recruit players who weren't already over the hill that AD had to cope with. 

My feeling is that we should be able to challenge for a play off next season and if that doesn't result positively, say a defeat at Wembley, a really good go in the next season.

By then, the club should have a good idea of the next manager to take us forward just as Ranieri took over Leicester from NP.

[Garland-sweden]

Think and hope Mehmeti next season do what Semenyo did. He is a real player and he will be very good för us. Pass the ball quicker and get confidence with his mates makes the top six not unrealistic. We got a flow in the team with pace in legs and the ball. Defence and midfield are improving, lets go for it!

[City oz]

19 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Top 2 - okay

Top 6 - okay

Top half - okay

Bottom half - okay

Relegated - okay

Pretty futile at this point.

Dave,Dave,Dave, come on cobber, you need to have a nice coldie.

Top 2 - Fantastic.

Top 6 - very good.

Top half - OK.

Bottom half - Poor.

Relegated - Devastating and I'll need more medication.

[Son of Fred]

22 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Whilst it would be great for us to get in the Prem.....next 3 years will mean that will mean Nige has has 6 years and I'm not sure I can wait that long.

Could you close the door on your way out then..

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, Garland-sweden said:

Think and hope Mehmeti next season do what Semenyo did. He is a real player and he will be very good för us. Pass the ball quicker and get confidence with his mates makes the top six not unrealistic. We got a flow in the team with pace in legs and the ball. Defence and midfield are improving, lets go for it!

The Mehmeti's & Cornick's will not push you to the Premier League - full stop.

We need to up our recruitment game.

[ZiderMeUp]

Anything less than champions will be a massive failure.

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 minute ago, ZiderMeUp said:

Anything less than champions will be a massive failure.

Is that lifted straight from Joey the jailbird`s post season musings?

[Top Robin]

59 minutes ago, Son of Fred said:

The Mehmeti's & Cornick's will not push you to the Premier League - full stop.

We need to up our recruitment game.

They were both excellent players for their respective previous clubs.......I still believe they will both come good and unlike you, I haven't written them off.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, City oz said:

Dave,Dave,Dave, come on cobber, you need to have a nice coldie.

Top 2 - Fantastic.

Top 6 - very good.

Top half - OK.

Bottom half - Poor.

Relegated - Devastating and I'll need more medication.

I was basically saying - I’m not playing this game!!!  I shouldn’t have posted really.  Shame on me!