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Kane Wilson to Derby - Confirmed

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GrahamC

GrahamC

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Reading between the lines seems like he didn’t fancy the challenge. Seemed to be an agreement he’d be off before summer hit.
 

Was living on his own as well, spent any off days back in the midlands with his family, so imagine Bolton moves means he can move back to the midlands full time. 
 

one to file under the ‘just one of those things’ column. 

Spot on.

Was told at the end of the season we’d informed him that he wasn’t in our plans & by someone I respect that he was consistently poor in his U21 appearances to the extent that we stopped picking him.

Pearson is big on expecting players to battle back from adversity, he’s tested the likes of Vyner, Pring, Sykes, Atkinson & Wells to see what they’re made of, those are the ones who have come through it & stayed.

His comments in press conferences towards the end of the season about him needing to be fitter & do more were obvious signs he was off, whatever some on here thought.

I have been saying since he signed that we see McCrorie playing there, that seems even more likely now.

Edited by GrahamC
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glynriley

glynriley

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, tin said:

Which would also be harsh on Tanner given the way he developed last season.

Better to have 2 decent players battling for a position. What's to say Tanner won't outshine McCrorie in pre season and start off as first choice? All about competition driving the standards up.

 

Edited by glynriley
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RedRoss

RedRoss

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

In the modern game the best sides in any league have full backs that attack like Pring or Bryan do.

I worry if Tanner, McCrorie and Roberts are 3 of our 4 full back choices to be honest.

Think your oversimplifing 'best teams' and how they operate. It all depends on style of play. I know some successful teams go for the high press but not all have marauding fullbacks or wingbacks i.e Dan Burn at Newcastle. Also how do you know McCrorie can't do that?

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Jimbo123

Jimbo123

Posted
Posted
Just now, RedRoss said:

Think your oversimplifing 'best teams' and how they operate. It all depends on style of play. I know some modern teams generally go for the high press but not all have marauding fullbacks or wingbacks i.e Dan Burn at Newcastle. Also how do you know McCrorie can't do that?

And look at what Newcastle have on the other side of their defence? The most creative full back in the league other than TAA.

If Pring gets injured we don't have much attacking threat from full back. I watch a lot of Scottish football as I also take an interest in a Scottish team.

Look at Burnley last season with Maatsen/Roberts, both brilliant going forwards. Blades played with wing backs, same for Luton, but Boro again Giles and Smith both brilliant attacking full backs.

It's not oversimplifying it, nor is it saying they have to be "marauding full backs" - just good going forwards.

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RedRoss

RedRoss

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

And look at what Newcastle have on the other side of their defence? The most creative full back in the league other than TAA.

If Pring gets injured we don't have much attacking threat from full back. I watch a lot of Scottish football as I also take an interest in a Scottish team.

Look at Burnley last season with Maatsen/Roberts, both brilliant going forwards. Blades played with wing backs, same for Luton, but Boro again Giles and Smith both brilliant attacking full backs.

It's not oversimplifying it, nor is it saying they have to be "marauding full backs" - just good going forwards.

You've preemptively answered what I was going to say. We also have Pring who does exactly that at our level. We now have Roberts as back up who may also have the ability to do that 'if that's what Nigel needs' as we just don't know. What I do know is that Tins and Nige know how they want to play and have or are identifying players that play the system they want.

Not all teams are going to play this system your referring to with marauding fullbacks and that specific skillset. There isn't just one way to be successful.

Again I think your oversimplifing the matter. Its all about balance in the team.

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Jimbo123

Jimbo123

Posted
Posted
Just now, RedRoss said:

You've preemptively answered what I was going to say. We also have Pring who does exactly that at our level. We now have Roberts as back up who may also have the ability to do that 'if that's what Nigel needs' as we just don't know. What I do know is that Tins and Nige know how they want to play and have or are identifying players that play the system they want.

Not all teams are going to play this system your referring to with marauding fullbacks and that specific skillset. There isn't just one way to be successful.

Again I think your oversimplifing the matter. Its all about balance in the team.

Roberts is a centre half by trade, he's a very promising young player and one I've kept an eye on for a couple of years but he most definitely isn't an attacking option at full back.

I just worry with Pearson that tactically what might have worked for him 10 years ago at Leicester probably won't do now, as the game has moved on.

I can't think of many, if any teams in recent years that have won promotion from this league without full backs contributing in an attacking sense? Look at what Dallas and Ayling were doing for Leeds, they were basically playing as wingers.

I agree, it's all about balance in the team. Which is why Wilson/Tanner is a much better balance in terms of attacking/defensive than having Wilson and McCrorie, I think.

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COYR's

COYR's

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, BCFCAL said:

Watched him in the u21s a couple of times and was not impressed in the slightest. Obviously not worked out, glad that he's getting a move, he can try kick his career on, and City can recoup some money and get another wage off of the bill.

Same here. I'm not surprised at all that he's going. Looked unfit, uninterested and one of the worst on the pitch in the 21's games. Pearson would not have liked that at all.

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BCFCAL

BCFCAL

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

Roberts is a centre half by trade, he's a very promising young player and one I've kept an eye on for a couple of years but he most definitely isn't an attacking option at full back.

I just worry with Pearson that tactically what might have worked for him 10 years ago at Leicester probably won't do now, as the game has moved on.

I can't think of many, if any teams in recent years that have won promotion from this league without full backs contributing in an attacking sense? Look at what Dallas and Ayling were doing for Leeds, they were basically playing as wingers.

I agree, it's all about balance in the team. Which is why Wilson/Tanner is a much better balance in terms of attacking/defensive than having Wilson and McCrorie, I think.

That isn't just on the full backs though, any full back can play higher up the pitch if you have the majority of the ball. It's not been possible for City as we don't see that much of it if you look at possession stats, you need the team to hold on to the ball for a good 60% of the game to get the whole side forward. I wouldn't say that Ayling and Dallas were your typical attacking full backs, it's just that they were in a good Leeds side that allowed them to do that.

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RoystonFoote'snephew

RoystonFoote'snephew

Posted
Posted

We don't know if Wilson would have cut it as an attacking full back at Championship level and probably wont know now until Bolton get promoted. I don't see it as entirely essential. Tanner is OK going forward, not the best perhaps but OK and we will have to see about McCrorie, but first and foremost Pearson likes Defenders who can defend and in this regard they look to meet the brief. Pring we know can attack down the left but if doable I'd still like us to get Currie as his back up as Roberts is a CB. . 

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Jimbo123

Jimbo123

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, BCFCAL said:

That isn't just on the full backs though, any full back can play higher up the pitch if you have the majority of the ball. It's not been possible for City as we don't see that much of it if you look at possession stats, you need the team to hold on to the ball for a good 60% of the game to get the whole side forward. I wouldn't say that Ayling and Dallas were your typical attacking full backs, it's just that they were in a good Leeds side that allowed them to do that.

I'm not saying it is, but as we're expecting to be a bit better this year I think we need to have full backs that are more productive and comfortable taking the ball into the final third.

Also, as for Dallas and Ayling - Dallas most definitely was, he was a winger playing at wing back. As was Alioski for them. Ayling absolutely bombed on too, just as he did for us under SC.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

Daft that a player with his talent has never been given a fair crack, 

I think it’s as simple as you have to earn your chance to get a crack.

This is my summary (as per twitter):

Nige is happy to give players a chance (multiple).  Kane just hadn’t taken it.  Shame, but hey-ho.

36 minutes ago, glynriley said:

Better to have 2 decent players battling for a position. What's to say Tanner won't outshine McCrorie in pre season and start off as first choice? All about competition driving the standards up.

 

Exactly.

27 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

In the modern game the best sides in any league have full backs that attack like Pring or Bryan do.

I worry if Tanner, McCrorie and Roberts are 3 of our 4 full back choices to be honest.

Think that’s too big a generalisation.  Depends how you play, what type of team you are.  The Liverpool side of Houllier-success played four CBs…Babbel, Henchoz, Hyypia and Carragher.  Carragher was nose-bleed at the h-w line.  It takes all sorts.

Tanner was perfectly fine last season, we just play differently depending on which flank we play down and the personnel involved in those passages of play.  It’s fine to be lop-sided in approach.  More measured down the right with say Tanner and Sykes, than down the left with Pring and whoever.

18 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

And look at what Newcastle have on the other side of their defence? The most creative full back in the league other than TAA.

If Pring gets injured we don't have much attacking threat from full back. I watch a lot of Scottish football as I also take an interest in a Scottish team.

Look at Burnley last season with Maatsen/Roberts, both brilliant going forwards. Blades played with wing backs, same for Luton, but Boro again Giles and Smith both brilliant attacking full backs.

It's not oversimplifying it, nor is it saying they have to be "marauding full backs" - just good going forwards.

In which case we adapt, adjust.  Roberts might come in and be good, just in a different way.  We can become very fixed in our views.  Some posters (general comment) just have formed blinkered views on Tanner’s attacking ability, so that where he has shown improvement in the attacking third it gets ignored and they harp back to a time when we were struggling.  He suffers from not being Cam Pring.  

Burnley - heavy possession, pivot around Cullen, full-back can play high-high-high.

Sheffield Utd - slight evolvement of Cotts 352…wing-backs the stretch to allow CBs to maraud.

Luton T - the most direct team.  Side-CBs mobile to allow full-back to energetically get forward.

Tanner is better defensively than some of above teams FBs/WBs.  

The simplification is really that the best teams have the best players, and the best teams can play to those player’s strengths.  If Boro had to play defensively due to inadequacies elsewhere, you wouldn’t be saying Ryan Giles is a good attacking full back.  Ryan Giles is an awful defensive full-back but Boro play to negate his weaknesses.

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

Posted
Posted

Shame we didn't see the best of him, but a combination of early injuries and a change of shape plus of course the significant growth of Tanner will have contributed

Perhaps League Two to Championship in one leap a step too far- off to one of the better sides in League One.

Will there be a fee? Wage saving and profit on disposal all helps. Joined us on a free didn't he.

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Jimbo123

Jimbo123

Posted
Posted
Just now, Davefevs said:

I think it’s as simple as you have to earn your chance to get a crack.

This is my summary (as per twitter):

Nige is happy to give players a chance (multiple).  Kane just hadn’t taken it.  Shame, but hey-ho.

Exactly.

Think that’s too big a generalisation.  Depends how you play, what type of team you are.  The Liverpool side of Houllier-success played four CBs…Babbel, Henchoz, Hyypia and Carragher.  Carragher was nose-bleed at the h-w line.  It takes all sorts.

Tanner was perfectly fine last season, we just play differently depending on which flank we play down and the personnel involved in those passages of play.  It’s fine to be lop-sided in approach.  More measured down the right with say Tanner and Sykes, than down the left with Pring and whoever.

In which case we adapt, adjust.  Roberts might come in and be good, just in a different way.  We can become very fixed in our views.  Some posters (general comment) just have formed blinkered views on Tanner’s attacking ability, so that where he has shown improvement in the attacking third it gets ignored and they harp back to a time when we were struggling.  He suffers from not being Cam Pring.  

Burnley - heavy possession, pivot around Cullen, full-back can play high-high-high.

Sheffield Utd - slight evolvement of Cotts 352…wing-backs the stretch to allow CBs to maraud.

Luton T - the most direct team.  Side-CBs mobile to allow full-back to energetically get forward.

Tanner is better defensively than some of above teams FBs/WBs.  

The simplification is really that the best teams have the best players, and the best teams can play to those player’s strengths.  If Boro had to play defensively due to inadequacies elsewhere, you wouldn’t be saying Ryan Giles is a good attacking full back.  Ryan Giles is an awful defensive full-back but Boro play to negate his weaknesses.

Houllier was at Liverpool 25 years ago, as I said the game and modern requirement of a full back has moved on. 

I'm not simplifying it to say "the best teams have the best players" - I'm saying the best teams have full backs that can meet the attacking demands of a side that want to become a top team.

Giles I agree on, but he was excellent for Cardiff too in a side that didn't have a lot of possession and weren't half as good. As was Drameh, who is like a right sided Giles.

Just now, Northern Red said:

Well tell us then instead of doing the "ner ner ner ner I know something you don't".

I have done.

Go through my posts, I posted the information on here that he's been told he's surplus to requirements and will be leaving and people didn't believe the information.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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Posted
29 minutes ago, BCFCAL said:

Watched him in the u21s a couple of times and was not impressed in the slightest. Obviously not worked out, glad that he's getting a move, he can try kick his career on, and City can recoup some money and get another wage off of the bill.

Sometimes (not always) playing in the u21s is just getting minutes in the legs, keeping yourself ticking over.  Not saying that’s the case with Kane.

Also he was involved with the match day squad until right near the end when I guess Nige wanted to give Harry Leeson some exposure…and perhaps Nige giving him his first “set of tests” to see how he responded.

24 minutes ago, Jimbo123 said:

Roberts is a centre half by trade, he's a very promising young player and one I've kept an eye on for a couple of years but he most definitely isn't an attacking option at full back.

I just worry with Pearson that tactically what might have worked for him 10 years ago at Leicester probably won't do now, as the game has moved on.

I can't think of many, if any teams in recent years that have won promotion from this league without full backs contributing in an attacking sense? Look at what Dallas and Ayling were doing for Leeds, they were basically playing as wingers.

I agree, it's all about balance in the team. Which is why Wilson/Tanner is a much better balance in terms of attacking/defensive than having Wilson and McCrorie, I think.

I honestly don’t see Nige trying to implement anything like the Leicester tactics here.  Cultural similarities, absolutely!  Tactically, I can’t really point to it at all??”

I think people still see Nige as very one-dimensional (only has one way) in his approach.  Look at the transitions we’ve had already. I think is does him a disservice.  He’s adaptable, he uses the players at his disposal.  I do know from the recruitment meetings, what Nige wants, and is not really tactical system / formation related.

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Swede

Swede

Posted
Posted

To be the League 2 player of the season as a fullback takes some doing. From what I've seen of him, I thought he needed more time to adapt to better opponents two leagues above what he's been used to.

He then picked up that unfortunate injury which he has to learn to live with. From that point on he just fell away down the pecking order. 

Unfortunately for him you're either on the bus or not with Nige.

I hope it works out for him, new club & manager & a fresh start.

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