Empty Seats

[And Its Smith]

3 hours ago, marmite said:

We should put home fans back in the Atyeo. The acoustics are far better there than anywhere else in the ground. 500 away fans can outsing the rest of the ground. 

Every year there is talk about acoustics and where fans sit. The atmosphere is shit because not enough fans sing. It’s literally as simple as that 

[Mr Popodopolous]

@OliOTIB

Some interesting ideas and I have some sympathy but without wishing to bang on, I do refer you to the thread about the Dolman A Block/E34.

I'll tag you in the relevant thread and or point out some of the relevant factors.

[And Its Smith]

7 minutes ago, OliOTIB said:

The typical start of season OTIB atmosphere moan is here. 

As always, few fixes which could help to improve the dire atmosphere that we witnessed today. Being in S82 was dreadful today, the display was the only interesting bit, and being honest, I did leave on 85th minute after they scored. Dont hurt me please, I missed my dog

Anyway, heres my ideas.

1) Move some home fans back into the Atyeo. Just like 16/17 season when we had around 30% of the Atyeo, other team had 60% and 10% was left empty. Birmingham were hugely advantaged by the fact there were 3000 away fans, attacking that end. Simply the acoustics allow for that stand to outsing the whole ground, so reduce allocation, put home fans in there.

2) Move Home fans to the middle of South stand, behind the goal. Every teams singing section seems to be behind a goal, which is such a huge advantage when attacking it in the second half. This will of course increase singing across south stand, lansdown and dolman, as singing is closer to them.

This will of course be difficult as the infrastructure is already in place in blocks s25,26 and 27. However, it will allow for a whole stand of just standing. 

We will of course have to relocate those who dont want to be a part of this, which of course will be a huge issue. 

The main problem currently with the SS is the £55 junior season tickets. Say a kid wanted the new home shirt, which costs £40, if a season ticket is bought as an alternative which of course comes with the new shirt, that leaves the season ticket technically costing £15, which works out to 65p per game!! Yet we wonder why its always so empty, kids don’t show up. Yet a part from this, the stand always comes up as full despite it being 1/2 empty, and people miss out on sitting there. Stupidity really.

3) Expand the ‘singing section’. This can be simply done by putting safe standing rails in S24 and allowing for people to stand in there. Of course, the same applies for above, some people wont want to move/ will have to move as a result which is a tad unfair and wont be easy. This can therefore spread the noise more towards the other end of the SS and make that louder.

Also, this comes with the issue of the potential problem of people in S23 not being able to see the corner flag. 

4) Two singing sections. Like at Plymouth (used as an example). 2 areas of the ground which will make noise, similar to the ABLOCK/S82 combination we had at the turn of the year.

Not particularly sure why that fell apart so much, but when it was in full flow it certainly improved the atmosphere quite considerably. I remember games like Birmingham, Norwich, Blackburn all being really good atmospheres due to the combination of two singing sections.

Of course, these things suggested aren’t particularly easy to achieve by any stretch of the imagination, but just some ideas

 

You reds x

 

 

Just need more fans singing.  There have been the odd game here and there with good atmospheres.  On those days or nights more fans sang than they did today. Worrying about where fans sit is not worth it. If 3000 fans were to sing it would sound good. 

[lenred]

2 hours ago, OliOTIB said:

The typical start of season OTIB atmosphere moan is here. 

As always, few fixes which could help to improve the dire atmosphere that we witnessed today. Being in S82 was dreadful today, the display was the only interesting bit, and being honest, I did leave on 85th minute after they scored. Dont hurt me please, I missed my dog

Anyway, heres my ideas.

1) Move some home fans back into the Atyeo. Just like 16/17 season when we had around 30% of the Atyeo, other team had 60% and 10% was left empty. Birmingham were hugely advantaged by the fact there were 3000 away fans, attacking that end. Simply the acoustics allow for that stand to outsing the whole ground, so reduce allocation, put home fans in there.

2) Move Home fans to the middle of South stand, behind the goal. Every teams singing section seems to be behind a goal, which is such a huge advantage when attacking it in the second half. This will of course increase singing across south stand, lansdown and dolman, as singing is closer to them.

This will of course be difficult as the infrastructure is already in place in blocks s25,26 and 27. However, it will allow for a whole stand of just standing. 

We will of course have to relocate those who dont want to be a part of this, which of course will be a huge issue. 

The main problem currently with the SS is the £55 junior season tickets. Say a kid wanted the new home shirt, which costs £40, if a season ticket is bought as an alternative which of course comes with the new shirt, that leaves the season ticket technically costing £15, which works out to 65p per game!! Yet we wonder why its always so empty, kids don’t show up. Yet a part from this, the stand always comes up as full despite it being 1/2 empty, and people miss out on sitting there. Stupidity really.

3) Expand the ‘singing section’. This can be simply done by putting safe standing rails in S24 and allowing for people to stand in there. Of course, the same applies for above, some people wont want to move/ will have to move as a result which is a tad unfair and wont be easy. This can therefore spread the noise more towards the other end of the SS and make that louder.

Also, this comes with the issue of the potential problem of people in S23 not being able to see the corner flag. 

4) Two singing sections. Like at Plymouth (used as an example). 2 areas of the ground which will make noise, similar to the ABLOCK/S82 combination we had at the turn of the year.

Not particularly sure why that fell apart so much, but when it was in full flow it certainly improved the atmosphere quite considerably. I remember games like Birmingham, Norwich, Blackburn all being really good atmospheres due to the combination of two singing sections.

Of course, these things suggested aren’t particularly easy to achieve by any stretch of the imagination, but just some ideas

 

You reds x

 

 

With respect we need to scrap the ‘singing section’ not increase it.   Having an official singing section gives everyone else in the ground a get out clause and allows everyone to rely on them to make the noise and then moan if it doesn’t happen.  Also having a ‘singing section’ is just embarrassing (aimed at the club - not you!) and should never ever have been introduced in the first place.   But it’s symptomatic of the ground since the rebuild and how the hierarchy want a sterile, dull, safe atmosphere.  It needs changing. 

[Bris Red]

The problem is with this football club and unfortunately certain fans is whenever an initiative to improve the atmosphere actually physically happens a large % of fans moan.

Look at the block A movement in the Dolman, yes i know existing season ticket holders were affected but unfortunately something is going to have to give somewhere if we are to improve it.

The same will happen if we wanted to move section 82 more central. You will have the hoards of dull boring i want to sit in silence brigade that will moan that people are standing and singing.

The club really need to pull their finger out aswell. I’m not convinced they think we have a problem with the atmosphere though. Aslong as the board keep seeing 20,000 plus coming through the gates they are happy IMO.

I didn’t go yesterday but i went to Preston. It was sad to see to be honest, so flat and dull. I genuinely miss the EE days, everything felt so much more hostile at AG back then even if we were only getting crowds of 14-15 k.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Bris Red

[Tinmans Love Child]

12 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

Definitely not an empty seat next to me in the South Stand.

In fact this weeks’ resident was so large they were overflowing into my seat. 
 

 

Fat people shouldn't be made to feel uncomfortable at Ashton Gate, so but two seats! 

[ChippenhamRed]

Never really bought into arguments about acoustics of one stand versus another. Were the acoustics a problem when we played United in 2017? Anyone heard Wales fans during big home games at the Cardiff City stadium? The architecture of that ground is very similar to the South Stand.

Atmosphere has an awful lot more to do with what the people in the stadium are doing or not doing to create it, and the performances of the team on the pitch that either inspire it or don’t.

I also don’t really agree with the suggestion of moving home fans into the Atyeo. We don’t sell out, so it’ll just spread our fans over a larger area and potentially dilute the atmosphere still further. All these ideas for moving fans here or there are just fiddling around the edges.

At the end of the day, we’re a big club in a big city that hasn’t had much to shout about for 40 years. We’ve floated between the second and third tiers, and we’re currently on a run of 9 seasons in the same division where we’ve rarely had a game that truly mattered at either end of the table, especially in the last few years. It also doesn’t really look like changing any time soon. I think that’s got an awful lot more to do with it than anything else.

[johnheadbcfc]

10 hours ago, marmite said:

We should put home fans back in the Atyeo. The acoustics are far better there than anywhere else in the ground. 500 away fans can outsing the rest of the ground. 

Those were the days followed by the old eastend, it was like being away every game 

[IAmNick]

11 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Never really bought into arguments about acoustics of one stand versus another. Were the acoustics a problem when we played United in 2017? Anyone heard Wales fans during big home games at the Cardiff City stadium? The architecture of that ground is very similar to the South Stand.

Atmosphere has an awful lot more to do with what the people in the stadium are doing or not doing to create it, and the performances of the team on the pitch that either inspire it or don’t.

I also don’t really agree with the suggestion of moving home fans into the Atyeo. We don’t sell out, so it’ll just spread our fans over a larger area and potentially dilute the atmosphere still further. All these ideas for moving fans here or there are just fiddling around the edges.

At the end of the day, we’re a big club in a big city that hasn’t had much to shout about for 40 years. We’ve floated between the second and third tiers, and we’re currently on a run of 9 seasons in the same division where we’ve rarely had a game that truly mattered at either end of the table, especially in the last few years. It also doesn’t really look like changing any time soon. I think that’s got an awful lot more to do with it than anything else.

Totally agree.

The east end was good, but there were also lots of threads back then about how they were often quiet as the rest of the ground found it hard to hear them with the low roof. The multiple groups singing different songs at different speeds (the netters etc ) I think people have their rose tinted specs on a bit (or were in there where it was loud)

We've had fans moved to basically every stand during the rebuild and it was the same. People were complaining about the acoustics of the Atyeo not so long ago.

The issue is that what's on the pitch and the feeling around the ground isn't inspiring people at the moment, like it was during '08 with Gary and the "Always believe" stuff - the ground still seemed full and loud past 90 minutes then even if we were losing.

Edited August 20, 2023 by IAmNick

[phantom]

15 hours ago, Lord Northski said:

It’s the school holidays, so many are on holiday, like myself. As it turned out, probably having a much better time than you lot. 

Sorry but I don't buy that so many are on holiday 

The empty seats will be there all season - like in previous years 

[marmite]

9 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Every year there is talk about acoustics and where fans sit. The atmosphere is shit because not enough fans sing. It’s literally as simple as that 

Sorry but getting singing going is infectious.  At away games the noise is better because you sing cos the guy/gal next to you is singing. 1000 away fans grouped together all sing together.

At AG, home singers are tucked away in a corner as far away from the corporate boxes as possible, probably intentionally,  so it doesn't spread around. I know people will say Man Utd and Man City games were different but they were rare exceptions. Ashton Gate atmosphere is flat since the redevelopment and apparently that cannot be changed because of H and S. 

 

[ChippenhamRed]

14 minutes ago, marmite said:

Sorry but getting singing going is infectious.  At away games the noise is better because you sing cos the guy/gal next to you is singing. 1000 away fans grouped together all sing together.

At AG, home singers are tucked away in a corner as far away from the corporate boxes as possible, probably intentionally,  so it doesn't spread around. I know people will say Man Utd and Man City games were different but they were rare exceptions. Ashton Gate atmosphere is flat since the redevelopment and apparently that cannot be changed because of H and S. 

 

Just don’t buy this “tucked away in a corner” nonsense. It’s in the corner that connects the two noisiest stands, which makes some sense for generating and spreading singing around the ground, and acoustically a corner is going to retain and project the sound more than being in the middle of a stand with open space either side of you. Think of it like a megaphone. It’s not a terrible spot and isn’t an excuse for a lack of atmosphere. The atmosphere isn’t great because we don’t have much to get excited about, there isn’t generally that much at stake in our games, and performances on the pitch don’t inspire. People talk about pre-redevelopment Ashton Gate like it was the Istanbul derby every week. It wasn’t.

See also my previous post above.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

The atmosphere is just fine, when the football is...

Trouble is, most teams are trying to replicate "Guardiola ball" which, when you don't have a team full of superstars is frankly the dullest, most boring thing ever to watch. We don't need 400 passes before we cross the halfway line.

Atmosphere relies to a degree, on EXCITING FOOTBALL, through balls, wingers taking people on, crosses, things that get fans out of their seats

Very little of this happens when you're probing for space by passing the opposition to death and boring fans stupid then, when there is a chink in the armour, we have no-one to play the ball...!!!

No wonder there's no atmosphere, Pepe ball really should be banned before it kills the game

Edited August 20, 2023 by Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..

[Ciderhead433]

What happened to the singing section in the Dolman E34 most of the seats were empty. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

41 minutes ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

The atmosphere is just fine, when the football is...

Trouble is, most teams are trying to replicate "Guardiola ball" which, when you don't have a team full of superstars is frankly the dullest, most boring thing ever to watch. We don't need 400 passes before we cross the halfway line.

Atmosphere relies to a degree, on EXCITING FOOTBALL, through balls, wingers taking people on, crosses, things that get fans out of their seats

Very little of this happens when you're probing for space by passing the opposition to death and boring fans stupid then, when there is a chink in the armour, we have no-one to play the ball...!!!

No wonder there's no atmosphere, Pepe ball really should be banned before it kills the game

Yep, very rarely watch the PL but saw the Man.City v Newcastle game last night.

So, so tedious, no excitement and no atmosphere whatsoever.

Foden stood out a mile because he was the only one who actually ran with the ball now and again.

[Dizz]

Long time reader, first time speaker-upper

Keep reading rubbish about acoustics.The Bombanera hasn't even got a flipping roof..

Do you know what would improve the acoustics? Singing.

 

If you don't sing - YOU are the problem

 

If you don't even clap along to the songs - YOU are the problem

 

It's not up to the club to change that. It's up to YOU

[davidoldfart]

16 hours ago, BCFCGav said:

Maybe not the time to say it and if I get some stick so be it - our home support ain’t right full stop.

Let’s be clear the performance today was low on quality. But booing them off at half-time? Shouting abuse at 1-0 down when we play a backwards pass (which is sometimes the right thing to do!). This was Dolman E30, can’t speak for the all the ground of course.

I don’t think our players like playing at the Gate. We’ll get more points on the road this season, the away support stays with them. 

First  time I have sat in the Dolman E30 with my grandson..great view but what a disappointment with guys sat  behind.Language was industrial despite banners indicating bad language was not acceptable..then comments that every one of our players and manager was shite .

This was the first time my 10 yr old had been to the Gate . His comment ‘think I will stay watching Bath’ …that’s one way to loose the future support.

[Mr Popodopolous]

32 minutes ago, Dizz said:

Long time reader, first time speaker-upper

Keep reading rubbish about acoustics.The Bombanera hasn't even got a flipping roof..

Do you know what would improve the acoustics? Singing.

 

If you don't sing - YOU are the problem

 

If you don't even clap along to the songs - YOU are the problem

 

It's not up to the club to change that. It's up to YOU

Ultimately the more singing, chanting and even clapping the better but ground redevelopment can be done with acoustics with a better atmosphere in mind in a ground.

https://illuminated-integration.com/blog/tips-improving-stadium-acoustics/

I've never thought sound travels that well between stands at AG.

A bigger end permitting "Safe Standing" also would assist in respect of generating an atmosphere. Whole end behind a goal would be nice.

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Dizz said:

Long time reader, first time speaker-upper

Keep reading rubbish about acoustics.The Bombanera hasn't even got a flipping roof..

Do you know what would improve the acoustics? Singing.

 

If you don't sing - YOU are the problem

 

If you don't even clap along to the songs - YOU are the problem

 

It's not up to the club to change that. It's up to YOU

Personally, I quite like sitting quietly watching the game, appreciate that some like to make a bit of noise but I don't think that me having a preference for commenting to the person next to me what my observations of a bit of play were makes me a problem.

[Lord Northski]

3 hours ago, phantom said:

Sorry but I don't buy that so many are on holiday 

The empty seats will be there all season - like in previous years 

Sort of like a Covid conspiracy theory. Crikey. Perhaps they’re watching you through your keyboard. 

[fisherrich]

IMO, the fan base has also changed. The loyal fans don’t bother nowadays. Just a lot of “happy clapper” day trippers near me. Turn up when playing well. Never there when playing badly. The ground is dogshite for atmosphere. Everyone knows it. Don’t think the Lansdowns give a shit though.

[Dizz]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Ultimately the more singing, chanting and even clapping the better but ground redevelopment can be done with acoustics with a better atmosphere in mind in a ground.

https://illuminated-integration.com/blog/tips-improving-stadium-acoustics/

I've never thought sound travels that well between stands at AG.

A bigger end permitting "Safe Standing" also would assist in respect of generating an atmosphere. Whole end behind a goal would be nice.

Hi bud, totally accept the design can affect acoustics, but to pretend that this is the reason the atmosphere is bad I think we all know is rediculous. If the majority of people sang, I'm confident the design would not make the blindest bit of difference.

As stated, plenty of old grounds that have just been mashed together ages ago that have good atmospheres (think old Ashton Gate!)

 

57 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Personally, I quite like sitting quietly watching the game, appreciate that some like to make a bit of noise but I don't think that me having a preference for commenting to the person next to me what my observations of a bit of play were makes me a problem.

You are not contributing to the atmosphere are you? 

You are therefore the problem.

 

I'm not saying this to have a pop my man, if that's your thing by all means do it. 

But recognise that this is why there is no atmosphere.

I spose I'm asking people to join in when/if they can.

Don't do it for me, I'm some random off the internet, do it for the club you support 

[ChippenhamRed]

43 minutes ago, fisherrich said:

IMO, the fan base has also changed. The loyal fans don’t bother nowadays. Just a lot of “happy clapper” day trippers near me. Turn up when playing well. Never there when playing badly. The ground is dogshite for atmosphere. Everyone knows it. Don’t think the Lansdowns give a shit though.

“The loyal fans don’t bother nowadays”.

Interesting definition of “loyal”.

Don’t agree either - loads of us here would describe ourselves as loyal, and we still go to games. Countless fans at Ashton Gate will have been going for their whole lives.

[BigTone]

19 hours ago, OddBallJim said:

Definitely not an empty seat next to me in the South Stand.

In fact this weeks’ resident was so large they were overflowing into my seat. 
 

 

Sorry about that. Dont wear those shorts to football again though cos I did notice you had one odd ball.

Edited August 20, 2023 by BigTone

[Lack of Action Man]

12 minutes ago, BigTone said:

Sorry about that. Dont wear those shorts to football again though cos I did notice you had one odd ball.

Very good

[Welcome To The Jungle]

30 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

“The loyal fans don’t bother nowadays”.

Interesting definition of “loyal”.

Don’t agree either - loads of us here would describe ourselves as loyal, and we still go to games. Countless fans at Ashton Gate will have been going for their whole lives.

I think loyal is the wrong word, but certainly the club has lost fans, like myself, over the last 5-10 years who no longer feel part of the club. I made my own decision to stop when they hiked the disabled fans and children's prices in 2018. It is callous and business orientated decisions like that which have made many feel not welcome, or less attached.  My loyalty will always be to my fellow fan as I believe every club is the members of that club. My loyalty is not to SL, or to Bristol City Holdings Ltd, or to the players, but to anyone who calls themselves a Bristol City supporter. 

Sadly I feel the club, and English Football as a whole, have moved the overton window so much now, that ticket prices have gone up, therefore fan entitlement goes up, player wages go up and so on and so on. That has ruined atmospheres which in turn puts more people off. 

Now attendances have gone up over the last 10 years too, so clearly the club has done well in attracting new fans. But AG is not a place where people who want to create and atmosphere and those who simply wish to watch are catered for equally. Until those who run the club change their mentality towards the atmosphere, nothing will change. However, fans can make them change, if the voices are loud enough.

[Bris Red]

7 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Never really bought into arguments about acoustics of one stand versus another. Were the acoustics a problem when we played United in 2017? Anyone heard Wales fans during big home games at the Cardiff City stadium? The architecture of that ground is very similar to the South Stand.

Atmosphere has an awful lot more to do with what the people in the stadium are doing or not doing to create it, and the performances of the team on the pitch that either inspire it or don’t.

I also don’t really agree with the suggestion of moving home fans into the Atyeo. We don’t sell out, so it’ll just spread our fans over a larger area and potentially dilute the atmosphere still further. All these ideas for moving fans here or there are just fiddling around the edges.

At the end of the day, we’re a big club in a big city that hasn’t had much to shout about for 40 years. We’ve floated between the second and third tiers, and we’re currently on a run of 9 seasons in the same division where we’ve rarely had a game that truly mattered at either end of the table, especially in the last few years. It also doesn’t really look like changing any time soon. I think that’s got an awful lot more to do with it than anything else.

While i do agree that moving fans around could potentially just dilute things, i am of the opinion that something good was building with the A block movement in the Dolman.

The ‘singing area’ of Section 82 is a nightmare to get tickets in for most home league games. For the casual fan like myself who cannot commit to a season ticket at the moment, having another option of an area to stand and sing would have been ideal. I know many others like myself aswell who when we do attend have no other options in the ground where standing/creating an atmosphere isn’t frowned upon by others. 
 

At the end of the day we have a fairly sizeable 27,000 seater stadium that rarely sells out as you said. I find it hard to fathom that the club cannot support another area of the ground to allow standing. 
 

We all know that the A block movement was poorly executed, but this is where the club need to step in and support things. As i said the stadium is surely big enough to accommodate it.

[Leveller]

3 hours ago, Dizz said:

Long time reader, first time speaker-upper

Keep reading rubbish about acoustics.The Bombanera hasn't even got a flipping roof..

Do you know what would improve the acoustics? Singing.

 

If you don't sing - YOU are the problem

 

If you don't even clap along to the songs - YOU are the problem

 

It's not up to the club to change that. It's up to YOU

Most football fans don’t sing - never have, never will, only a small minority. Atmosphere is generated by exciting football, simple as.

[eardun]

Given the OP was talking about empty seats, I’m not convinced that empty seats in the Atyeo will create any better atmosphere than empty seats in the South Stand. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

14 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

The ‘singing area’ of Section 82 is a nightmare to get tickets in for most home league games. For the casual fan like myself who cannot commit to a season ticket at the moment, having another option of an area to stand and sing would have been ideal. I know many others like myself aswell who when we do attend have no other options in the ground where standing/creating an atmosphere isn’t frowned upon by others.

Still ST only isn't it in the Singing Section isn't it?

14 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

We all know that the A block movement was poorly executed, but this is where the club need to step in and support things. As i said the stadium is surely big enough to accommodate it.

Safe Standing in A Block or indeed E34 as a whole a gateway to this? Existing ST holders hmm, some may well be interested in a livelier A Block themselves.

Club could certainly apply...The process is outlined somewhat on the A Block thread.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous