Pearson and Tanner Pre Hull.

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

We've fine tooth comb-ed most things on here - the owner, his boy, the manager, the previous manager/s, the CEO before the previous one, the players, the recruitment, the kit, the crowd, the atmosphere, the ffp, the "High" Performance Centre, the parking, the ticketing, the club shop, the concourse- but not so much whoever drills the lads Mon - Thursday up Failand  (assuming Nige mostly leaves that to his staff).

Are we good enough as far as training ground coaching goes?

Our very poor ability to pass the ball more than 5 yards without spoonfeeding an opposition player would suggest, no. 

[exAtyeoMax]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

No, he’s saying that Keith Dawe was the man behind the identifying and appointing of Cotts.  Plenty of stuff written about that at the time too.  Dawe of course was skilled in Recruitment, that was his “bag”.

We do know Holden was left to MA and JL to run the recruitment.

It seems pretty clear LJ was SL himself.  The stories are that he wasn’t the rest of the Board’s choice from the recruitment process, and that Appleton was.

And Nige we don’t know, other than SL picking up the phone to him in his PJs on a Sunday morning.  Could’ve been Ashton, could’ve been others that identified him.

I don’t have the history before that.

#she 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

#she 

Ah, bugger, by the time I’d got around to to clicking quote and actually typing the reply, I’d forgotten Ajax was replying to you.  I know you are #she.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ah, bugger, by the time I’d got around to to clicking quote and actually typing the reply, I’d forgotten Ajax was replying to you.  I know you are #she.

@exAtyeoMax as it says in every contract "all references to one gender include a reference to the other".

[CyderInACan]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

But SL lost his nerve. And to be fair, had the added issue of covid arrive at just the time he was having to make that call. And has now reverted from the Bournemouth/Reading model to the Des Williams model! 

Oooooh is it by Airfix? And do they sell it in Beatties in Town? 

[Merrick's Marvels]

59 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

We've fine tooth comb-ed most things on here - the owner, his boy, the manager, the previous manager/s, the CEO before the previous one, the players, the recruitment, the kit, the crowd, the atmosphere, the ffp, the "High" Performance Centre, the parking, the ticketing, the club shop, the concourse- but not so much whoever drills the lads Mon - Thursday up Failand  (assuming Nige mostly leaves that to his staff).

Are we good enough as far as training ground coaching goes?

Judging by the 2 home games (a small sample) - No!

Because in both, the fact the opposition have set up to make it difficult for us to pass out from the back and also set up to nullify our prime attacking threats (Pring/Bell), seems to have come as a surprise and stumped us. (They appear unconcerned by Tanner/Cornick!!!)

Our coaching team seem baffled by this approach. Perhaps they should have spent the summer working on how we should play when, for instance, someone's sat on James, Pring is double teamed or our CBs are lumping it because they've no options. Because the opposition sure have worked on how to play against us.

Instead, our lot seem to have spent the summer thinking - we're just going to do the same as last season - predictable, you say? yes, but - what's that? - after Scott's left, too? - yes, we know he was basically 3 players in one and we haven't got anyone who can lace his boots, at anything! - don't worry, everything will be fine - we're going to keep doing the same thing, just not as well - what can go wrong? 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, glynriley said:

LJ signed 9, NP 2. I don't think signing 9 GK's in 4.5 years is particularly normal for most footballl clubs.

LJ had Frankie and some kids in the building, NP had Bentley and some kids. To say NP has had 6 GK's is disingenuous, if your including the likes Mac Boyd and dismissing the signing of Begovic. Bentley had to go to bring the wage bill down for a start.

We're not going to agree, clearly, so I'll leave it there.

PS. I’m actually not sure we disagree about much!

Was LJ given massively more resources than NP. Yes. Did that mean he was able to go out and bring in more and more experienced keepers. Yes. Did that mean we ended up signing sufficient to aim for 2/3 quality keepers. Yes. Did that strategy eventually break us. Yes. (And, incidentally, would we like NP to have a greater resource to go out and sign more experience/quality  the consensus seems to be yes)

My only question is whether you lay the blame for that at LJs door or at SLs? He’s got the resource available. The club strategy is moving towards a one of success at all costs. He’s working to an ultimatum as part of that strategy. What’s he going to do? Refuse to sign a Maenpaa or a Steele on the basis that he’d rather bring through an untried youngster and save the money for a successor?

Ultimately he failed of course, and paid the price for that. But he came as close as anyone has done in half a century! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

28 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Judging by the 2 home games (a small sample) - No!

Because in both, the fact the opposition have set up to make it difficult for us to pass out from the back and also set up to nullify our prime attacking threats (Pring/Bell), seems to have come as a surprise and stumped us. (They appear unconcerned by Tanner/Cornick!!!)

Our coaching team seem baffled by this approach. Perhaps they should have spent the summer working on how we should play when, for instance, someone's sat on James, Pring is double teamed or our CBs are lumping it because they've no options. Because the opposition sure have worked on how to play against us.

Instead, our lot seem to have spent the summer thinking - we're just going to do the same as last season - predictable, you say? yes, but - what's that? - after Scott's left, too? - yes, we know he was basically 3 players in one and we haven't got anyone who can lace his boots, at anything! - don't worry, everything will be fine - we're going to keep doing the same thing, just not as well - what can go wrong? 

Scott would have given us some significant space and room in both those home games, fully fit Naismith too but the combination of the two- both are gone.

James is stable and has lots of good things but someone like Naismith perhaps a bit more expansive..a balance at home of James, Williams, Knight doesn't feel quite right to me.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Eddie Notgetinya]

20 hours ago, Superjack said:

Eddie Notgetinit.

Great input

 

[maxjak]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Personally I don’t really care how exciting we are.  I want us to be strong and win games…and achieve promotion.  The style matters little to me.  I could quite happily watch a defensive style that got results.

Others want excitement.

Others want excitement and results.

I do agree we want some hope.  I still have plenty.  But that’s because I don’t necessarily link excitement and hope together.  I’ll have a better idea of whether my pre-season hope has gone up or down after 6,8,10 games.

I’m not sure we are patient and tolerant, I think we are a fickle and whining fan base.  But I think most fan bases are!  Just look at the mood swings from Preston to Millwall, and then Millwall to Brum.  Hardly an objective bunch are we?

But for the time being they keep on attending?  So I 'll get back to you after 10 games...Ha!   PS.  Loved "Get Back"

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, italian dave said:

PS. I’m actually not sure we disagree about much!

Was LJ given massively more resources than NP. Yes. Did that mean he was able to go out and bring in more and more experienced keepers. Yes. Did that mean we ended up signing sufficient to aim for 2/3 quality keepers. Yes. Did that strategy eventually break us. Yes. (And, incidentally, would we like NP to have a greater resource to go out and sign more experience/quality  the consensus seems to be yes)

My only question is whether you lay the blame for that at LJs door or at SLs? He’s got the resource available. The club strategy is moving towards a one of success at all costs. He’s working to an ultimatum as part of that strategy. What’s he going to do? Refuse to sign a Maenpaa or a Steele on the basis that he’d rather bring through an untried youngster and save the money for a successor?

Ultimately he failed of course, and paid the price for that. But he came as close as anyone has done in half a century! 

He said he'll leave it there, Dave, he wants you to have the last word on this, look

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Judging by the 2 home games (a small sample) - No!

Because in both, the fact the opposition have set up to make it difficult for us to pass out from the back and also set up to nullify our prime attacking threats (Pring/Bell), seems to have come as a surprise and stumped us. (They appear unconcerned by Tanner/Cornick!!!)

Our coaching team seem baffled by this approach. Perhaps they should have spent the summer working on how we should play when, for instance, someone's sat on James, Pring is double teamed or our CBs are lumping it because they've no options. Because the opposition sure have worked on how to play against us.

Instead, our lot seem to have spent the summer thinking - we're just going to do the same as last season - predictable, you say? yes, but - what's that? - after Scott's left, too? - yes, we know he was basically 3 players in one and we haven't got anyone who can lace his boots, at anything! - don't worry, everything will be fine - we're going to keep doing the same thing, just not as well - what can go wrong? 

He's no Danny McGrain, George Tanner. Not sure what Pep could do with the Cornick/Tanner right hand side. Maybe the new kiddie will liven things up there

[Merrick's Marvels]

31 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

He's no Danny McGrain, George Tanner. Not sure what Pep could do with the Cornick/Tanner right hand side. Maybe the new kiddie will liven things up there

The new kiddie will need to be Carlos Alberto.

Ross "Carlos" McCrorie. Got a ring to it, that.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Loosey Boy]

Having watched the interview, I personally thought Nige was his usual self.

The interesting point was regarding others potentially leaving - clearly, he wouldn’t be happy if we were left with minimal time if “the club” accepted an offer for one of our players.

Sadly though, I have come to the conclusion that Nige will see his contract out and then leave - I still firmly believe that he is the manager to get us into the PO (and promoted) and that’s something that I find hard to accept when it appears that SL sees things a different way…..

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

He said he'll leave it there, Dave, he wants you to have the last word on this, look

Yeah, sorry, and apologies @glynriley: I was just pondering City’s woes over lunch, as you do, and it occurred to me that I didn’t really know what we were disagreeing about!!
I’ll shut up now. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

17 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

Having watched the interview, I personally thought Nige was his usual self.

The interesting point was regarding others potentially leaving - clearly, he wouldn’t be happy if we were left with minimal time if “the club” accepted an offer for one of our players.

Sadly though, I have come to the conclusion that Nige will see his contract out and then leave - I still firmly believe that he is the manager to get us into the PO (and promoted) and that’s something that I find hard to accept when it appears that SL sees things a different way…..

Him mentioning that suggested to me that we have possibly had interest in some of our players. 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Judging by the 2 home games (a small sample) - No!

Because in both, the fact the opposition have set up to make it difficult for us to pass out from the back and also set up to nullify our prime attacking threats (Pring/Bell), seems to have come as a surprise and stumped us. (They appear unconcerned by Tanner/Cornick!!!)

Our coaching team seem baffled by this approach. Perhaps they should have spent the summer working on how we should play when, for instance, someone's sat on James, Pring is double teamed or our CBs are lumping it because they've no options. Because the opposition sure have worked on how to play against us.

Instead, our lot seem to have spent the summer thinking - we're just going to do the same as last season - predictable, you say? yes, but - what's that? - after Scott's left, too? - yes, we know he was basically 3 players in one and we haven't got anyone who can lace his boots, at anything! - don't worry, everything will be fine - we're going to keep doing the same thing, just not as well - what can go wrong? 

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Scott would have given us some significant space and room in both those home games, fully fit Naismith too but the combination of the two- both are gone.

James is stable and has lots of good things but someone like Naismith perhaps a bit more expansive..a balance at home of James, Williams, Knight doesn't feel quite right to me.

Both kinda right

This pic kinda explains it.  Think this is when Max tried to chip it to Pring and it got intercepted.

 

Why not pass it to Dickie or Vyner?  What was the need to try that type of pass at 15:03 (according to the metadata of my photo)?

It is clear to me at this juncture:

- Brum gone 3v3 at the back

- Bacuna, Anderson abd Hogan are predominately trying cover James and Williams and Bacuna trying to half-cover Pring as well as engage Dickie if he gets it.

- Laird was half-covering Bell, but as soon as Max plays it, him and Bacuna start a pincer movement on Pring.

- Bielik and Sunjic are aware of Knight and protecting Long who is really 1v1 versus Bell.

 

This is not how we played v Millwall, albeit against a different system.  Knight and Williams split, we were more a 1 DM / 2 Eights.  Against Brum it’s more 2 DMs / 1 No10.  Preston did similar.  Even though they played a back-3.  Effectively Potts did what Laird did.  Browne did what Bacuna did.

 

What we needed to do imho was either be more patient (Max use Dickie and Vyner) or bypass their front-4 and Laird, and play off the bits and pieces.  Not elegant I know.  But you watch Brum’s front 4 get cheesed off watching them press our best 4 and then see the ball disappear over their heads, especially if our back 4 squeeze up behind and make them sprint back to stay onside.

 

Lets see how we do against Hull.

 

[Ted Basso]

All the best teams have a bit of continuity, so let them all play together and learn - but the spine does seem a bit lightweight. In the ‘old days’ they would always look for strong Keeper, centre back, centre mid & centre forward to build team from. Our good’uns are all wide…

but more optimism than a couple of years ago!

[Bristol Oil Services]

3 hours ago, italian dave said:

Yeah, sorry, and apologies @glynriley: I was just pondering City’s woes over lunch, as you do, and it occurred to me that I didn’t really know what we were disagreeing about!!
I’ll shut up now. 

How was lunch?

[eardun]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Both kinda right

This pic kinda explains it.  Think this is when Max tried to chip it to Pring and it got intercepted.

 

Why not pass it to Dickie or Vyner?  What was the need to try that type of pass at 15:03 (according to the metadata of my photo)?

It is clear to me at this juncture:

- Brum gone 3v3 at the back

- Bacuna, Anderson abd Hogan are predominately trying cover James and Williams and Bacuna trying to half-cover Pring as well as engage Dickie if he gets it.

- Laird was half-covering Bell, but as soon as Max plays it, him and Bacuna start a pincer movement on Pring.

- Bielik and Sunjic are aware of Knight and protecting Long who is really 1v1 versus Bell.

 

This is not how we played v Millwall, albeit against a different system.  Knight and Williams split, we were more a 1 DM / 2 Eights.  Against Brum it’s more 2 DMs / 1 No10.  Preston did similar.  Even though they played a back-3.  Effectively Potts did what Laird did.  Browne did what Bacuna did.

 

What we needed to do imho was either be more patient (Max use Dickie and Vyner) or bypass their front-4 and Laird, and play off the bits and pieces.  Not elegant I know.  But you watch Brum’s front 4 get cheesed off watching them press our best 4 and then see the ball disappear over their heads, especially if our back 4 squeeze up behind and make them sprint back to stay onside.

 

Lets see how we do against Hull.

 

Exactly this. We gave the ball away through through lack of patience (to wait for a decent opportunity). As a result, we were playing Hollywood balls out of defence - Vyner did it as well, and Naismith before their second goal. Be patient and work the ball again. 

[italian dave]

17 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

How was lunch?

Thinking about City....bit depressing to be honest!!

[W-S-M Seagull]

I think for me the frustrating thing is that we've all been patient the past couple of years because we all understood the situation. Despite the situation 20k of us still turn up each week. At a time where we're all feeling the pinch. 

So to be told we may have to once again play full backs at cb because we can't afford to buy anyone despite selling a player for 25 million is incredibly frustrating. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

13 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Aye, and if we are moving toward a "possession" game, players not making themselves available for a pass is going to be a bit of a problem. I would imagine Nige might forgive them many things but not lack of effort or courage. 

Yes I agree totally there. It seems the players are going to have to learn a new mind set