Arena

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, Pearcy said:

When Fulham were rebuilding their ground didn't they have no away fans?  If we had to have them I'm sure we could find 1,000 seats somewhere just for a season. Perhaps add the South Stand upper tier first, chuck them in there, then rebuild the Atyeo. This would give the club the perfect opportunity to move the away fans too so they wouldn't have the whole of one stand.

 

They had to allocate 1,600 to away fans.

Whichever stand you might develop first, you lose that part off your capacity.

[Bris Red]

17 minutes ago, BS30 City said:

I cant imagine theres much scope in increase the capacity with an Atyeo replacement, also unsure of we would get permission to add another tier to the South Stand with the housing behind?!

 

100% i have heard from a couple of sources that another tier can be added to the South stand if required, it has supposedly been built in such a way that another one can be added.
 

Would be interesting to see how they would do it as like you said you have the houses behind to factor in. 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Bris Red

[Mr Popodopolous]

If capacity falls below 20k, it's 10 pct of allocation with a rebuild.

In the event if such a new rebuild what would the new capacity be- of course you drop a bit off for segregation too.

[myol'man]

William Hill are currently offering 2/1 that the entire Ashton Gate Arena Development will be finished before the Memorial Ground South Stand

[Pearcy]

The South Stand currently hold just over 6,000. If you add another tier I guess that would bring it up to about 9,000. The Atyeo currently holds 4,200. If rebuilt in the same way as the South Stand that can be either 6,000 with one tier or roughly 9,000 with two tiers. This would bring capacity up to nearly 30,000 (if a tier is added to the South Stand), or 32,000 (if a tier is added to the South Stand and the Atyeo is rebuilt) or 35,000 (if a tier is added to the South Stand and the Atyeo is rebuilt with two tiers).

 

[elhombrecito]

I'm loving these discussions about how to increase the stadium capacity, at the same time that everybody seems to think we are doomed to be relegated into League 1.

[Pearcy]

1 minute ago, elhombrecito said:

I'm loving these discussions about how to increase the stadium capacity, at the same time that everybody seems to think we are doomed to be relegated into League 1.

I don't see us troubling the play offs, but I also think we'll be well clear of relegation. 

[frenchred]

Can someone sensibly explain why we would need to increase the capacity of our ground when (a) we hardly ever sell out and (b) if we did reach the promised land, match day attendances are incidental to other monies incoming

[Port Said Red]

14 hours ago, pillred said:

The capacity of our present ground whilst it is enough for now we are fairly close at times to capacity for a fair number of games, despite well let's be honest not exactly setting the division alight ( and that's putting it mildly) even a moderately successful season flirting with or making the playoffs would in my opinion show up the limitations of the present ground, if we made the top flight and by some miracle became established there would be endless moans on here about the fact tickets were impossible to get and I haven't been able to see a home game for ages etc., one day the fact we were not able to move to Ashton vale will come back to haunt us in my humble opinion. 

A shocking lie, the gasheads have the true figures on their forum and they say we only average around 13-14k, and we know they never lie or exaggerate figures. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

13 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Can someone sensibly explain why we would need to increase the capacity of our ground when (a) we hardly ever sell out and (b) if we did reach the promised land, match day attendances are incidental to other monies incoming

Future proofing. The demand would be major if we ever went up IMO.

Point b PL matchday revenue with profile etc can increase sharply both POTD and wider use of facilities.

I'm not saying I like this especially, some of the ticket prices are a joke as it is but it is sadly the way of it in 2023.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[bcfc01]

20 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Can someone sensibly explain why we would need to increase the capacity of our ground when (a) we hardly ever sell out and (b) if we did reach the promised land, match day attendances are incidental to other monies incoming

Re (a) As it stands, I think the current capacity and the stadium is fine for where we are.

Re (b) I'm not sure that the attendance monies are incidental. 

https://sportsjournal.io/premier-league-football-clubs-matchday-data/

Surprisingly, Tottenham earned around €107 million in matchday revenue for the 2020/21 season. In comparison, Manchester United earned around €98.8 million. Arsenal earned around €89.7 million. Liverpool made around €82.7 million, and Chelsea reportedly earned around €62.1 million.

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by bcfc01

[95red]

18 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Can someone sensibly explain why we would need to increase the capacity of our ground when (a) we hardly ever sell out and (b) if we did reach the promised land, match day attendances are incidental to other monies incoming

 

4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Future proofing. The demand would be major if we ever went up IMO.

Point b PL matchday revenue with profile etc can increase sharply both POTD and wider use of facilities.

I'm not saying I like this especially, some of the ticket prices are a joke as it is but it is sadly the way of it in 2023.

So why are Liverpool, Chelsea  spurs arsenal  Everton  all expanding  or new doing it if revenue  from the prem far exceeds gate revenue. CITY in the prem would sell out every  week .

[nebristolred]

Lots of talk here of adding a second tier to the South Stand, but surely it's no different to the Atyeo in that it requires house purchases (albeit fewer). At least with the Atyeo there is the physical room for a bigger stand, the South Stand is already cutting it fine with 4 or 5 of them!

[Merrick's Marvels]

28 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Can someone sensibly explain why we would need to increase the capacity of our ground when (a) we hardly ever sell out and (b) if we did reach the promised land, match day attendances are incidental to other monies incoming

"If we did reach the promised land"....

Why wouldn't you want more City fans - as many City fans as possible - to attend??

And anyway, you're wrong - as just posted - match day attendances are not incidental, otherwise Liverpool, Manchester City, Chelsea and a host of other clubs wouldn't want to expand their grounds. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[frenchred]

17 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

"If we did reach the promised land"....

Why wouldn't you want more City fans - as many City fans as possible - to attend??

And anyway, you're wrong - as just posted - match day attendances are not incidental, otherwise Liverpool, Manchester City, Chelsea and a host of other clubs wouldn't want to expand their grounds. 

They wouldn't be city fans!

If they were they'd be attending now!

32 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Future proofing. The demand would be major if we ever went up IMO.

Point b PL matchday revenue with profile etc can increase sharply both POTD and wider use of facilities.

I'm not saying I like this especially, some of the ticket prices are a joke as it is but it is sadly the way of it in 2023.

There certainly wouldn't be any pay in the day! You ever tried to get tickets for any orem game?

[Thomas_red]

Fill in the corners and add capacity (boxes or seats) in the Atyeo feels like the only options available.

If we were in the Premier League this season we'd have a larger ground than 6 of the clubs (with Fulham's new stand still incomplete).

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 minutes ago, frenchred said:

There certainly wouldn't be any pay in the day! You ever tried to get tickets for any orem game?

That's true I suppose, nope never been to a PL game, guess it goes ST, 3k away or 10 pct capacity,  Leeds seem to have 2-3 Tiers of Membership having looked at their site out of idle interest.

Your first point, that's just a bit absolutist. Fanbases grow, new fans join- some are more committed than others granted but fanbases grow at different speeds and times.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Lanterne Rouge]

17 hours ago, Davefevs said:

They won’t be starting til 2024 at least.  Car Park season tickets in Wickes onky sold for half season in case work starts early 2024.

You say that but I have heard of a club that has sold season tickets for a stand that isn`t even built.

You`ll rock up to a home game in September to find it`s a building site.

[Pearcy]

33 minutes ago, nebristolred said:

Lots of talk here of adding a second tier to the South Stand, but surely it's no different to the Atyeo in that it requires house purchases (albeit fewer). At least with the Atyeo there is the physical room for a bigger stand, the South Stand is already cutting it fine with 4 or 5 of them!

Why would you need to buy any houses? When the South Stand was originally built no houses were purchased.

[sglosbcfc]

10 minutes ago, frenchred said:

They wouldn't be city fans!

If they were they'd be attending now!

There certainly wouldn't be any pay in the day! You ever tried to get tickets for any orem game?

That is not true. For many different reasons there are different levels of commitment, from the City fan who goes to every single game home and away in every competition, to the fans that goes once a season, but still would say they are a City supporter. When the team is winning every week, or as the team goes higher in the league then fans shift their level of commitment e.g. more of the once a season brigade will go 4 or 5 times a season. Therefore, if City make the Prem and have a capacity of 23,000 home tickets, 99% of those fans will be 'City supporters' (I'm not doubting the odd ticket will go to a tourist or away fan).

[hollydog]

11 minutes ago, Pearcy said:

Why would you need to buy any houses? When the South Stand was originally built no houses were purchased.

Impact of a much taller structure on the occupiers of the end houses on Raynes Road much more significant than existing stand would make securing planning permission challenging. 

[James54De]

18 minutes ago, Pearcy said:

Why would you need to buy any houses? When the South Stand was originally built no houses were purchased.

Second tier on the south stand would be the footprint would have to be deeper. There is literally no room behind the dolman end of the south stand. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

They wouldn't be city fans!

If they were they'd be attending now!

I'm surprised you don't realise that - "if we did reach the promised land" - there would be thousands - literally thousands - more Bristolians wanting to come to Ashton Gate, compared to now.

Comfortably more than the home seats that are currently empty (about 2 or 3 thousand)

Some might come to watch the opposition but there will be plenty of new City fans wanting to attend and support the home team - more than now which is why more seats would be good - more than are currently available. 

As I say, I'm surprised that needs explaining

Edited August 25, 2023 by Merrick's Marvels

[Cidre Monita]

19 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Can someone sensibly explain why we would need to increase the capacity of our ground when (a) we hardly ever sell out and (b) if we did reach the promised land, match day attendances are incidental to other monies incoming

Incidental? That is incorrect. Every club has to grow its income, more so with revised FFP regulations. There is a reason you have seen substantial new ground investments in the Prem, and still there are developments underway, such as Anfield and the new Everton ground. Man United are looking to rebuild Old Trafford, Leeds wants to rebuild Elland `road, Palace has advanced plans to expand dramatically Selhurst Park. The list goes on. Non media income is around 30% of overall income at the better Prem sides, and each club is seeking to grow it. Liverpool were quoting a target of £100M and growing for non media income. Hardly incidental. 

AG has sold out to home fans already this season. For a side that has performed at a very middling to poor level in the league for a number of years. AG would clearly be inadequate for a sustained Prem side. Current capcity is , with segregation under 26 k, with 22k for home fans. That would easily sell out when , ok when..., Bristol becomes the 53/54th side to get to the Prem. 

The origional Ashton Vale plans had a 32k base design with a ramp up to 40k. that would be clser to where a Prem league BCFC would be aiming. Totally bonkers that it never went ahead. 

AG is landlocked to an extent. 3 sides of the ground have limitations. The most restrictive being the Dolman, followed by the Atyeo ,you can rebuild it, but with minimal gains in capacity if you do not buy the (12-15?) houses behind it. Followed by the South stand, that has 4/5 houses in the corner that you would need to buy, to enable a double/triple tier stand. The Lansdown could have another tier added (but would require replanning the sporting quarter). It is still quite a small stand compared to many in the Prem (The Anfield road new stand, and main stand are huge)

With hindsight, now ownng the land where the sporting quarter is intended, the ground should have been moved . The overall plot size would easily enabe any size stadium you could desire. 

It is rather "little Bristol" when there is talk of "it is fine for what we need now". That thinking is exactly why we are where we are . There are 4 decades of fans who have never seen top flight football in Bristol, a few lifetimes for some. But the fanbase growth potential is clearly there. A whole new generation of fans, new fans. So  there at least needs to be a master plan to grow AG. Some future investors place great importance to current ground capacity and facilities, but also, very importantly, site potential for growth. 40k (actual/potential) is a minimum target number for many ( though certainly not all investors)

To discuss the current Prem grounds that are similar smaller to AG

Luton - What do you wnat to say?

Bournmouth - Plans to rebuild one day for a 20k stadium. It is not a city, population linited and many competing local clubs.

Fulham - Heavily land locked and planning constraints, stadium under devlopment with many complex issues. Aim is to have 29500 capacity

Brentford - New stadium, 17k significant competition from other London Prem sides

Burnley - Small town , similar to Cheltenham

Palace - Selhusrst Park to have new main stand, taking capacity from 26k to 34k

Nottingham F - Plans preogressing to take Capacity to 34k as phase 1

If we get to the Prem, only Luton, Bournmouth and Brentford will have a stadium smaller than AG with the current line up.  For the City of Bristol. The catchment area, the relative wealth. No history of success, true, but the other basics are there.

AG is a lovely ground. No doubts. But it is a Championship ground all the same and would appear too small for a Prem league Bristol City. You would think that City in the Prem would easily sell out all home seats as season tickets. Indeed, City with any scent of promotion would sell out every week. 

Unfortuately with grounds/stadium , these are not decisions that are taken overnight, and the impact is very much long term and can take years, even decades to realise. (or to realise your errors).

[frenchred]

39 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I'm surprised you don't realise that - "if we did reach the promised land" - there would be thousands - literally thousands - more Bristolians wanting to come to Ashton Gate, compared to now.

Comfortably more than the home seats that are currently empty (about 2 or 3 thousand)

Some might come to watch the opposition but there will be plenty of new City fans wanting to attend and support the home team - more than now which is why more seats would be good - more than are currently available. 

As I say, I'm surprised that needs explaining

Not doubting more would want to come, they wouldn't all be city fans though

Surprised this needed explaining 

[nebristolred]

1 hour ago, Pearcy said:

Why would you need to buy any houses? When the South Stand was originally built no houses were purchased.

If you were to add a second tier you would near more room than just up . You'd need to have a load more space in behind to add it too.

Edited August 25, 2023 by nebristolred

[Merrick's Marvels]

27 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Not doubting more would want to come, they wouldn't all be city fans though

Surprised this needed explaining 

Of course they wouldn't all be. I agreed with that.

But, again, there would still be several thousand new fans who want to come and support City. Several thousand more than the spare capacity we have. So more room would be handy. 

[frenchred]

10 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Of course they wouldn't all be. I agreed with that.

But, again, there would still be several thousand new fans who want to come and support City. Several thousand more than the spare capacity we have. So more room would be handy. 

And if (reality check) we got relegated would they all stay? Or would we be rattling round in a stadium to big for us?

[Sleepy1968]

2 hours ago, 95red said:

 

So why are Liverpool, Chelsea  spurs arsenal  Everton  all expanding  or new doing it if revenue  from the prem far exceeds gate revenue. CITY in the prem would sell out every  week .

They're expanding for the corporate money. Liverpool for example, current only sell 26k season tickets, because they can make far more selling memberships and balloting for much higher matchday ticket prices.

When we get promoted I'm sure city will try to do the same i.e. eak out as much revenue per seat as they can. Expect one season at reasonable prices  and if we stay up expect to be pumped.

[Sleepy1968]

1 minute ago, frenchred said:

And if (reality check) we got relegated would they all stay? Or would we be rattling round in a stadium to big for us?

Of course. Look up what happened last time we got relegated from the top flight. Lots of people seemed to forget how to get to Ashton gate. From 33k+ v Liverpool to 4k v Wimbledon in 6 years. Wonderful.