If there was a takeover in the next 12 months...

[tin]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why are you so obsessed with the premier league? Why would you want to risk our very existence for a brief spell in the premier league? 

Many ex premier league clubs now find themselves in league one following dodgy ownership which risked the existence of their clubs. I'll take the financial stability of Lansdown over that thank you. 

 

Without putting words in the mouth of@Supersonic Robin, when SL talks about reaching the PL every pre-season and everyone talks of us being PL-ready off the pitch, it fuels false ambition. False because it’s not matched by SL in reality, who is bizarrely imposing austerity at a time when we have money and are dangerously short on numbers and experience. If we don’t aspire to see City at the highest level or competing for major honours, we might as well give up and do something else. 

[Glen hump]

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why are you so obsessed with the premier league? Why would you want to risk our very existence for a brief spell in the premier league? 

Many ex premier league clubs now find themselves in league one following dodgy ownership which risked the existence of their clubs. I'll take the financial stability of Lansdown over that thank you. 

 

What’s the point in the club if we’re not going all out to be in the top division, we’ve been muddying about in league 1 and the championship for years, how ******* boring being happy just sitting still 

[W-S-M Seagull]

8 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

What’s the point in the club if we’re not going all out to be in the top division, we’ve been muddying about in league 1 and the championship for years, how ******* boring being happy just sitting still 

I'd be absolutely fuming if we went all out to get to the Premier league. Because with our track record, going all out would likely result in extreme financial trouble for us. 

Going all out in football does not guarantee success. It wasn't that long ago we was a league one club. Now we are an established Championship club with top facilities. I'm pleased with that progress. 

Luton didn't get to the Premier league by going all out. 

I'm happy to see us make continued improvements. 

Never forget that 8 men had a dream.

Edited August 28, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[fisherrich]

14 minutes ago, tin said:

Without putting words in the mouth of@Supersonic Robin, when SL talks about reaching the PL every pre-season and everyone talks of us being PL-ready off the pitch, it fuels false ambition. False because it’s not matched by SL in reality, who is bizarrely imposing austerity at a time when we have money and are dangerously short on numbers and experience. If we don’t aspire to see City at the highest level or competing for major honours, we might as well give up and do something else. 

Agreed, Lansdown talks a good story about the Prem “dream”, then sells our best players. All a pipe dream under Lansdown’s ownership IMO. How much £££s has Nige P been given to spend? Wake up City fans!

[Glen hump]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'd be absolutely fuming if we went all out to get to the Premier league. Because with our track record, going all out would likely result in extreme financial trouble for us. 

Going all out in football does not guarantee success. It wasn't that long ago we was a league one club. Now we are an established Championship club with top facilities. I'm pleased with that progress. 

Luton didn't get to the Premier league by going all out. 

I'm happy to see us make continued improvements. 

Things is there’s not much improvement on the pitch where it counts, don’t forget sl put us in big financial trouble, now we actually have a manager with a proven track record his decided to not back him even though we’ve got a bit to play with.

[Supersonic Robin]

11 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why are you so obsessed with the premier league? Why would you want to risk our very existence for a brief spell in the premier league? 

Many ex premier league clubs now find themselves in league one following dodgy ownership which risked the existence of their clubs. I'll take the financial stability of Lansdown over that thank you. 

 

It's not an obsession with the Premier League, it's an obsession with seeing my club be successful. Naturally, for a Championship club success pretty much equates to promotion to the Premier League.

I'm not sure why there's so much scaremongering with regard to new ownership. Why would new ownership mean that the existance of our club is at risk? Sure, it's possible, but it's incredibly unlikely.

As I've alluded to, many of the ex-prem clubs now in League 1 would still probably prefer their last 20 years to ours. After all, it's not like we haven't been in L1 in that time.

Ultimately, it's subjective. If you want high stability but a low probability of achievement, that's okay (genuinely). My view is the opposite - if we're so scared of things going wrong that we won't accept the risks associated with trying to be successful, then why do we even bother having a football club?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I'd be absolutely fuming if we went all out to get to the Premier league. Because with our track record, going all out would likely result in extreme financial trouble for us. 

Going all out in football does not guarantee success. It wasn't that long ago we was a league one club. Now we are an established Championship club with top facilities. I'm pleased with that progress. 

Luton didn't get to the Premier league by going all out. 

I'm happy to see us make continued improvements. 

Never forget that 8 men had a dream.

LJ; 17/18 Season finished 11th, LJ 18/19 Season finished 8th, spent sh1te loads much wasted but got access to the SL wallet,

NP; 21/22 season 17th, 22/23 14th restricted access to the wallet, worse finishing position, so good a manager but where`s the money to help him?

So we have in league finishing position wise def NOT made "continued improvements"

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Glen hump said:

Things is there’s not much improvement on the pitch where it counts, don’t forget sl put us in big financial trouble, now we actually have a manager with a proven track record his decided to not back him even though we’ve got a bit to play with.

I disagree. On the pitch I think we are better than before Pearson came in. 

If we compare our starting line up vs Preston to the starting line up in Holdens first game then I'd have to say we have improved. 

If we compare the club as a whole to then vs now then there has also been huge improvements. Opening of the HPC, academy and women's team on the same site, medical department, management team etc etc. 

All these improvements should eventually translate into results. 

I do agree that I don't understand why NP isn't being given a bigger budget.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, fisherrich said:

Agreed, Lansdown talks a good story about the Prem “dream”, then sells our best players. All a pipe dream under Lansdown’s ownership IMO. How much £££s has Nige P been given to spend? Wake up City fans!

I partially agree although we did get ourselves into a mess just recently.

We appear to have weirdly continued to swing towards austerity though, when ironically it is not needed as it was for 18 months to 2 years. We have some aspects of a reasonable base but we are thin in certain areas.

[Hxj]

On 27/08/2023 at 19:04, IAmNick said:

a slightly ruthless attitude to how each part is run.

If you ran a ruthless attitude over the commercials of Bristol City Holdings Limited you would run a mile and not invest.  End of story.  Nobody investing with a sound commercial mind would go anywhere near a Championship club.

[Hxj]

9 hours ago, fisherrich said:

Lansdown has not backed NP financially. Give him some £££s and see what he can do.

NP does not want to be backed with lots of cash.  What he wants is an agreed budget and to manage the team within that budget.  Both of which he has.  As I have said many times before we all know which pool we are paddling in for players and to be fair on balance the recruitment has been pretty good.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Hxj said:

If you ran a ruthless attitude over the commercials of Bristol City Holdings Limited you would run a mile and not invest.  End of story.  Nobody investing with a sound commercial mind would go anywhere near a Championship club.

Surely the prospect of promotion in a couple of years is factored into a lot of these new savvy investors plans and mindsets. Go big, go up..reap the PL cash and maybe flip at a profit.

One I don't fully get is Acun Illaci, he's gone on the radio and complained he can't invest more a year ago ie Parachutes v FFP.and basically said he likes throwing money away. Was an entertaining interview on Talksport last August.

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Hxj said:

NP does not want to be backed with lots of cash.  What he wants is an agreed budget and to manage the team within that budget.  Both of which he has.  As I have said many times before we all know which pool we are paddling in for players and to be fair on balance the recruitment has been pretty good.

It has been decent the recruitment tbh but a bit more, the sale of Scott- maybe a slightly deeper and wider pool to factor it in and give everyone a lift.

[Hxj]

On 27/08/2023 at 18:12, Davefevs said:

AG Ltd hasn’t posted a profit for the last 5 accounting years!

The company isn't there to make a profit.  It is there to ensure that if the football club goes bust again, the ground is protected from the creditors of the club.  The ownership structure is such that whilst that protection exists the club and the ground are there to sell as a single entity by selling BC Holdings Ltd.

As to the P&L, AG Ltd has made a profit before interest, depreciation and amortisation for the last five years, a positive EBITDA is a good thing.  It absorbs a huge sum of costs that would otherwise fall on the football club, and spreads it out amongst the other activities of the wider Bristol Sport empire and the other commercial activities,

[Hxj]

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Surely the prospect of promotion in a couple of years is factored into a lot of these new savvy investors plans and mindsets. Go big, go up..reap the PL cash and maybe flip at a profit.

Nah - buying a championship football club is a vanity project.  You invest £20 million a year, £13 million for FFP plus all the other 'non-FFP costs' and you might get it right, and win promotion.  If it doesn't work out in five years you are £100 million poorer, and have an asset basically worth nothing.

Mind you if I could find £200 million behind the back of my sofa it would be a fun way of losing half my fortune and imagine the hate I would get on here for spending £100 million of my own money! 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Hxj

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, Hxj said:

Nah - buying a championship football club is a vanity project.  You invest £20 million a year, £13 million for FFP plus all the other 'non-FFP costs' and you might get it right, and win promotion.  If it doesn't work out in five years you are £100 million poorer, and have an asset basically worth nothing.

Some of the amounts a newer breed have put in is mental. The amount Shahid Khan at Fulham has put in over a decade or so, PL and Championship makes SL, Whelan etc look like paupers. Parachute Payments and PL cash help a hell of a lot though.

The Allams eventually got their cash back out of Hull, after it went sour..mix of PL, Parachutes and tough austerity whereby the club seemed to be repaying some of the loans over time.

[Hxj]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Allams eventually got their cash back out of Hull

And how much did Mel get out of Derby?

[Mr Popodopolous]

8 minutes ago, Hxj said:

And how much did Mel get out of Derby?

Very true! What was it £150-200m down in 6 years?? Albeit Covid didn't assist but MSD seemed to prop them up somewhat.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 hours ago, fisherrich said:

Agreed, Lansdown talks a good story about the Prem “dream”, then sells our best players. All a pipe dream under Lansdown’s ownership IMO. How much £££s has Nige P been given to spend? Wake up City fans!

Every one always throws this around but they don't consider the individual deals. It's a lazy arguement to make.

Webster - huge money for a CB and he wanted to go to Brighton, the club he supports. 

Kelly - Moved to a premier league club

Brownhill - Moved to a premier league club

Reid - contract expiring and moved to a premier league club

Bryan - wouldn't sign new contract and moved to the Premier league. 

Semenyo - wouldn't sign new contract and moved to the Premier league. 

Scott - incredible talent and an incredible amount of money. 2 years left on contract and he wasn't going to sign a new one as he wanted to move to the Premier league. 

So what do you do about all of those players that want to move? 

We did keep some of our best players such as Kalas, Fammy, JD, Baker and they departed here on a free having spent big amounts on them.

The issue isn't that we sell our best players, the issue is that the money has been spent badly.

 

 

 

 

 

[Davefevs]

47 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We did keep some of our best players such as Kalas, Fammy, JD, Baker and they departed here on a free having spent big amounts on them.

The issue isn't that we sell our best players, the issue is that the money has been spent badly.

 

Exactly.  In each case none of them bad signings from a playing side point of view (we’ll all have our nuanced views), but all left for zilch.  Baker almost left twice, although the latest was very unfortunate.  At least with Wells we’ve managed to extend his time with us beyond the single contract.

If you sign players whose contracts are gonna end in their late 20s / early 30s there has to be a better plan once they get 18-24 months out.  Covid didn’t help with Diedhiou, but we still wasted a transfer fee and a year’s wages by not being more ruthless.

[Superjack]

4 hours ago, Hxj said:

NP does not want to be backed with lots of cash.  What he wants is an agreed budget and to manage the team within that budget.  Both of which he has.  As I have said many times before we all know which pool we are paddling in for players and to be fair on balance the recruitment has been pretty good.

I would imagine that he would like to be backed with some cash.

If I were him, I would think that I wasn't valued. 

And I have a horrible feeling that I would be right.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I disagree. On the pitch I think we are better than before Pearson came in. 

If we compare our starting line up vs Preston to the starting line up in Holdens first game then I'd have to say we have improved. 

If we compare the club as a whole to then vs now then there has also been huge improvements. Opening of the HPC, academy and women's team on the same site, medical department, management team etc etc. 

All these improvements should eventually translate into results. 

I do agree that I don't understand why NP isn't being given a bigger budget.

You can compare lots of things to prove a point i.e. despite losing 6 games in a row and being given less than a year when Holden left he still had us 13th in the table higher than NP`s had us finishing in the last 2 full seasons.

We seem happy to just compete in the championship rather than try and win it atm, cant see the point in being in a race if we dont want to try and win at least.

[Hxj]

4 hours ago, Superjack said:

If I were him, I would think that I wasn't valued. 

Not everybody values themselves by the amount of somebody else's money they get to spend.

 

[Superjack]

17 minutes ago, Hxj said:

Not everybody values themselves by the amount of somebody else's money they get to spend.

 

I wasn't talking about him valuing himself.

But I guess you know that.

[headhunter]

5 hours ago, Superjack said:

 

If I were him, I would think that I wasn't valued. 

Have you ever heard SL utter a single word of praise for Nige.

Very quick to salivate over Robins and take a dig at NP with his recent comment about our squad being better than Luton's, the inference being NP should be getting more of a "tune" out of them.

[Mr Popodopolous]

In the interim while looking for investment or similar the truth could be relatively simple.

SL no longer wants to be the sole one putting in £10-15m per season to cover cash losses and wants this to be as low as possible.

Combination of search for an investor and the economic madness that is Championship football.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Bristol Rob]

Of course, the financial tap being reduced to a trickle might be as a result of NP doing reasonably well with limited funds.

Because of injuries, player sales and financial constraints NP was forced to player more academy players than he might have wanted, his hands were tied and he needed to field them. These kids have largely done better than expected and few of them have looked out of place.

With the academy/Tins/NP providing a pathway to first team football and producing players who can cope with the demands of the Championship, are relatively cheap to employ and have the potential to be sold for millions, why would SL (or anyone) sanction the signing of an £8mil midfielder on 5 times the money who might not be any better than a 17 year old who might have been 18 months away from their first start and now finds themselves 3 years away from featuring.

SL has long said that he would love to see a starting 11 of Bristolians or academy players and maybe this is part of the new/latest model.

Seem to remember than the signing of Tanner was because the academy didn't have a right back who was ready, so perhaps that's the plan. Only sign players in positions where we don't have a realistic prospect.

It would go some way to explaining the reduced spending.

[Shauntaylor85]

To be honest time has come for change IMO. The current owners have had their time and for the most part it’s been disappointing. Their name deserves to be associated with the stadium of course and the infrastructure, but the investment made into the former manager’s son and a certain former CEO which was the downfall and why we ended up in this mess, as were the crazy decisions over the years to appoint likes of Holden, Tinnion and Millen. However when you see the success the former CEO has had at another fellow club, you do wonder if again too many decisions are made by the owners without being football people. As much as I love our former players too still at the club, I sometimes feel we create too much of a cosy culture because of that and think that new fresh eyes would shake things up a bit. I’ve said before that I think the best DoF for this club is Nige with a progressive Head Coach under him. He has a true eye for a player and how to build a successful culture, I just feel he isn’t given the chance to fully let loose. 

[Rob k]

On 28/08/2023 at 22:27, Mr Popodopolous said:

It has been decent the recruitment tbh but a bit more, the sale of Scott- maybe a slightly deeper and wider pool to factor it in and give everyone a lift.

Has the recruitment been decent? Time will tell with that one. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 hours ago, Rob k said:

Has the recruitment been decent? Time will tell with that one. 

Decent within the constraints moreso

Tanner, Dickie, Atkinson, Roberts. Sadly Atkinson who knows when he will be back.

Naismith, Knight- King is and was always bit-part.

McCrorie we've barely seen- this virus etc.

Gardner-Hickman has just joined. Let's see.

Sykes needs a run in his preferred position, when fit I'd always start him on the right.

Mehmeti..he seems to have stalled sadly, looked very exciting when he came in.

Cornick should be more of a bench strength really but when he does play centre or bust- he was central at Luton iirc.

Time will tell as you say.

Several of these players are still of ages where they are developing too.the squad balance just doesn't seem right to me.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous