Cornicks chance…

[BCFC31]

For balance though I don't rate cornick one single bit! Looks like he won a chance to play for us.

[old_eastender]

In the heat of the moment I thought it was an awful miss, that's unfair, but still think on balance he should score but more 60/40.

Overall I don't understand why we signed him, Luton fans said his best position was playing inside forward off a target man... we don't have a target man in the entire squad!

Think that's 20 appearances now and 1 goal. Poor return for any forward.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, BCFC31 said:

For balance though I don't rate cornick one single bit! Looks like he won a chance to play for us.

Bit harsh, mate. Safe to say though, Harry won't be the one Stevie Guernsey sells for £25 millions next summer to top up his "nest egg."

Harry looks like someone we, ideally, are bringing on when we're 2:1 up with 15 to play, not someone to "unlock the door." Or nick one "against the run of play." He might do alright Tuesday against the plucky L1 nobbers from Plymouth though ....

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, old_eastender said:

In the heat of the moment I thought it was an awful miss, that's unfair, but still think on balance he should score but more 60/40.

Overall I don't understand why we signed him, Luton fans said his best position was playing inside forward off a target man... we don't have a target man in the entire squad!

Think that's 20 appearances now and 1 goal. Poor return for any forward.

Think I saw yesterday that Wells has 1 goal from open play in 23 games…

Need Tommy back and firing asap. 

[Lack of Action Man]

Good save, required a lot of skill and a slice of luck and sadly for us their keeper got it. Cornick was unfortunate not to score.

Edited September 17, 2023 by OddBallJim

[1960maaan]

Change of opinion alert !!

Must admit I said it was a bad miss , and he should have buried it. 
Having watched it a few times now I can see his chest control was better than I gave him credit for. Plus, with the defender getting across well and the keeper spreading himself it was a harder chance than I thought.
I still think Wells & Conway may have done better, and I'm still hoping that Cornick proves me wrong about him, we shall see.

[Red-Robbo]

49 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Bit harsh, mate. Safe to say though, Harry won't be the one Stevie Guernsey sells for £25 millions next summer to top up his "nest egg."

Harry looks like someone we, ideally, are bringing on when we're 2:1 up with 15 to play, not someone to "unlock the door." Or nick one "against the run of play." He might do alright Tuesday against the plucky L1 nobbers from Plymouth though ....

 

That's kind of my view of the man.

It isn't that he's been particularly bad - just that he hasn't (well, only once) been particularly good. He's been consistently average.

If that sounds harsh, it isn't. I'm not writing him off. Vyner was consistently average (average to poor, some might say!) but turned his game around to being the sort of name you want to see starting for us. Other players have also upped their games. Harry has many of the attributes necessary to become more effective. 

[GrahamC]

53 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Think I saw yesterday that Wells has 1 goal from open play in 23 games…

Need Tommy back and firing asap. 

In League games Wells has only scored one goal that wasn’t a penalty since last January.

Having said that, he’s had at least one disallowed & is working as hard as ever.

Yesterday he was being marked by Ajayi who is about 6ft 5 alongside Kipre who isn’t that much shorter, but despite the ridiculous height disparity he gave it a proper go.

Obvious that as you say, with Conway & Weimann unavailable we are lacking a fair percentage of our goal threat, but until they’re back, unless we are going to give Cornick a run (& bet that would be popular on here) he’s still probably our best bet.

[Roger Red Hat]

4 hours ago, BCFC31 said:

For balance though I don't rate cornick one single bit! Looks like he won a chance to play for us.

Yes, people are queuing up to play for us.......

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, SouthS22 said:

No goals, no assists, no goal involvements, no successful crosses, today the only shot so far this season.    I’m not sure where the happening is there.  
 

it was a good touch today to set up the chance, but the touch doesn’t matter unless the chance is taken.  It wasn’t, and from where I was sitting it was a miss, though the goalkeeper also did well. 
 

I was hoping after a pre-season that Cornick would kick on this year.  Only fleeting glimpses of any progression so far, though I can’t criticise his work rate.   

Good contrast can be made with Yeboah.  Exciting prospect, fast, strong, unpredictable, and excellent work rate.  

What’s your data source?

 

 

(because it’s wrong )

[JAWS]

From what I've seen so far & the clips for Luton he looks like a no.10 & to be effective needs to be given the freedom to roam

[JAWS]

Appreciate NP budget limited & we were very thin on ground in Jan with weimann and Conway injured (bell was still in background beginning Jan) but still the wrong buy for me & his wages could've been better utilised

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, JAWS said:

From what I've seen so far & the clips for Luton he looks like a no.10 & to be effective needs to be given the freedom to roam

Bar Boro (h) last season, as a generalisation I think he’s looked far more effective central…which is the position he ended up at Luton, playing off of Adebayo for a couple of seasons (and Morris last season).  He isn’t a thoroughbred footballer, he’s a bit scruffy, and as you say, you need to let him roam.  The best place for him to roam from (imho) is central.

4 minutes ago, JAWS said:

Appreciate NP budget limited & we were very thin on ground in Jan with weimann and Conway injured (bell was still in background beginning Jan) but still the wrong buy for me & his wages could've been better utilised

I don’t think many of us (even me who isn’t down on him like some) think he’s hit the heights we expected / hoped.  FWIW I saw why we went after him, albeit I expected him to play more central.

[JAWS]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bar Boro (h) last season, as a generalisation I think he’s looked far more effective central…which is the position he ended up at Luton, playing off of Adebayo for a couple of seasons (and Morris last season).  He isn’t a thoroughbred footballer, he’s a bit scruffy, and as you say, you need to let him roam.  The best place for him to roam from (imho) is central.

I don’t think many of us (even me who isn’t down on him like some) think he’s hit the heights we expected / hoped.  FWIW I saw why we went after him, albeit I expected him to play more central.

Yes agree Dave. Central but tucked in behind & freedom to roam so more of a 10. We don't play him in that role 

[JAWS]

Hence why he's come across as being ineffective on the whole. Same as sykes playing wingback at beginning of last season 

[Alessandro]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

And a defender sliding in on him too.

Can’t believe it took 4 pages for someone to say this….

If Cornick went to the keepers right, the defender blocks it.

The keeper closed the gap, made himself big and covered the middle and left.

1) It’s a great first touch from Cornick.

2) A good recovery from the defender.

3) Top quality positioning and a top quality reaction save from the keeper.

Yes maybe maybe on another day Messi in his prime curls that in the bottom left hand corner but personally think Cornick couldn’t have done much more.

[Roger Red Hat]

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Can’t believe it took 4 pages for someone to say this….

If Cornick went to the keepers right, the defender blocks it.

The keeper closed the gap, made himself big and covered the middle and left.

1) It’s a great first touch from Cornick.

2) A good recovery from the defender.

3) Top quality positioning and a top quality reaction save from the keeper.

Yes maybe maybe on another day Messi in his prime curls that in the bottom left hand corner but personally think Cornick couldn’t have done much more.

Please stop with the reasoning and positivity.............

[JoeAman08]

Think Conway or Wells more than likely finish that.

Cornick not the one for me. Reminds me of Marley Watkins a bit except Cornick come here at better value and probably better reputation? Watkins flopped at Norwich and couldn’t believe their luck they got 1m for him. Cornick went for much less from a side that still probably wanted to keep him at least for rotation purposes. 
 

I’d probably lean more minutes towards Yeboah at this stage. Not because he is young but because I think he causes problems no one else in our side can cause. I get protecting a young player and all that. Just saying his pace is electric and for his age he is quite aggressive and strong. A blend I don’t think anyone in this team provides. 
 

I think the fact we are talking about this shows where we are as a team. Good culture and all that but lacking quality. Cornick sums that up. Great worker but lacking technically. Until we start addressing quality over culture we’ll probably be lower mid table. Even Millwall and Preston who I think are traditionally culture sides have tried sprinkling in some magic in their team. We needed another player as soon as Scott left but think we all know that

[Davefevs]

Agree with sentence 1 @JoeAman08, they are better finishers, so yes, more likely to score.

I’d have never paid £900k (£1m whatever!) for Watkins, but as disliked as he was by a lot of our fan base, a fit Watkins played a role.  I remember chatting to Jack Hunt once and he said he liked Watkins ahead of him (over Eliasson) because he never got left exposed, he was physical with his opposing left-back.  And he did get the odd goal too.  Fitness / staying fit was his biggest issue.  There are similarities though, both a bit crude on the eye, both lower level football backgrounds too.

Yeboah is gonna get his chance at some point.  I don’t think Nige wants to expose him down the middle though, and Sykes is playing well at RF, so biding his time.  He looks a mini version of Semenyo though, which is no bad thing.  I think Nige will trust him with more minutes though going forward.

Quality over culture is a tough transition to make.  I think TGH will bring that too, once he gets in, I think he’ll be hard to dislodge, I see a fair bit of ability in him.  Good age too.  Would not surprise me if we try to make it a perm in January.  Much as I’m a big fan of Williams’s form this season, if TGH comes in for him, then that makes Williams as a sub, a stronger option too.  I think we are moving towards what you suggest, one more player of the TGH / Knight profile could’ve made a big difference with the foundation we have.

[Numero Uno]

37 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Think Conway or Wells more than likely finish that.

Cornick not the one for me. Reminds me of Marley Watkins a bit except Cornick come here at better value and probably better reputation? Watkins flopped at Norwich and couldn’t believe their luck they got 1m for him. Cornick went for much less from a side that still probably wanted to keep him at least for rotation purposes. 
 

I’d probably lean more minutes towards Yeboah at this stage. Not because he is young but because I think he causes problems no one else in our side can cause. I get protecting a young player and all that. Just saying his pace is electric and for his age he is quite aggressive and strong. A blend I don’t think anyone in this team provides. 
 

I think the fact we are talking about this shows where we are as a team. Good culture and all that but lacking quality. Cornick sums that up. Great worker but lacking technically. Until we start addressing quality over culture we’ll probably be lower mid table. Even Millwall and Preston who I think are traditionally culture sides have tried sprinkling in some magic in their team. We needed another player as soon as Scott left but think we all know that

Everyone bar the three most important people at the club..........we've got a lot going in the right direction but lack of quality will always hurt you and stop you going where you want to go in the end. I'm obviously using an unfair comparison to prove a point but if Leicester City put in the first 45 minutes we did yesterday against anyone in our league they are literally 4-0 up at half time and it's game over.

[mozo]

3 hours ago, GrahamC said:

In League games Wells has only scored one goal that wasn’t a penalty since last January.

Having said that, he’s had at least one disallowed & is working as hard as ever.

Yesterday he was being marked by Ajayi who is about 6ft 5 alongside Kipre who isn’t that much shorter, but despite the ridiculous height disparity he gave it a proper go.

Obvious that as you say, with Conway & Weimann unavailable we are lacking a fair percentage of our goal threat, but until they’re back, unless we are going to give Cornick a run (& bet that would be popular on here) he’s still probably our best bet.

I was really skeptical about Wells after his first year at the club,  and made a fool of myself prior to last season when I predicted he wouldn't have any meaningful impact. Since then he's been consistently putting in good performances. He's always fit too. The downside is that for all the good running and link up, he's not a player  that offers a target (either via pace or stature) and he doesn't create his own chances. So he typically needs the chance right on a plate for him. My view of him is much more positive now, but I really would only play him in a two as a supporting striker. Maybe the same goes for Cornick. Is Cornick in some way our Havertz in that he doesn't fit into the system? 

 

[Davefevs]

51 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Even Millwall and Preston who I think are traditionally culture sides have tried sprinkling in some magic in their team

Just watching Millwall v Leeds…possible to argue (early doors) that one team getting it right, the other not finding the balance.

Rowett under pressure, not that I don’t think he should be given time.

[Offside]

My initial reaction during the game was that Cornick should have scored. But watching the footage I think he did well to react quickly to chest the ball down and get the shot on target. The keeper spread himself well and made a decent save. 

[Spike]

I think at this point many fans have made their mind up, I mean people are criticising him almost every time he doesn't score with a chance and yet the same people love Wells and when he missed an absolute sitter against Birmingham he was forgiven the next week and people stopped speaking of it.

Another thing that bothers me is that when you look at the stats for this season:

Wells - 1 goal every 279 minutes played
Bell - 1 goal every 285.5 minutes played
Cornick - 1 goal every 291 minutes played
Knight - 1 goal every 311 minutes played
Naismith - 1 goal every 447 minutes played
Sykes - 1 goal every 485 minutes played
James - 1 goal every 598 minutes played

So when you look at goals per time played Cornick is actually our third most prolific scorer and not that far behind Bell or Wells.

Cornick has started 4 games, Preston on the Right side, Oxford on the Right Side, Birmingham on the Right Side and Norwich, again, on the right side. Cornick is not a right winger at all, so he's being judged whilst playing out of position, not to his strengths and being ridiculed and insulted every time he makes a mistake. How is the bloke supposed to prove himself when anything other than scoring is not good enough, he's being played out of position and a little more than half the amount of play time than the man who plays where he is best suited. He's being given no chance of getting consistent and yesterday really peeved me off as the West Brom keeper made a fantastic save and the City fans lit up social media with how he'd missed and is "crap".

Yesterdays chance when you actually look at it from a non overly critical point of view shows Cornick make a great run to get in front of his marker, take control of an awkward ball coming across his body on his chest, pushing the ball down with it, a very hard technique and then getting the shot on target as soon as he could at which point the keeper had closed him down very quickly to only have 5 yards between him and Cornick. Essentially what we saw was a good run, a fantastic touch off the chest from a fast paced ball and a shot on target from a ball just about to bounce of the ground. A lot of our fans are choosing to see what they want to see, as they saw a key chance "missed" when the shot was actually on target and had required some good football to even create it. 

I don't think it matters what Cornick does anymore, people have already made their minds up and he's now going to have to score goals in a team that plays him out of his best position, gives him far less time on the pitch than his teammates in the same position and in a team that has the third highest xG in the league but is 20th in goals scored.
The fact is we're not converting enough chances into goals, Cornick is not the only one struggling here, the whole team is and yet it's Cornick who gets called out every time he fails, whilst others get forgiven or looked over.

[Son of Fred]

3 minutes ago, Spike said:

I think at this point many fans have made their mind up, I mean people are criticising him almost every time he doesn't score with a chance and yet the same people love Wells and when he missed an absolute sitter against Birmingham he was forgiven the next week and people stopped speaking of it.

Another thing that bothers me is that when you look at the stats for this season:

Wells - 1 goal every 279 minutes played
Bell - 1 goal every 285.5 minutes played
Cornick - 1 goal every 291 minutes played
Knight - 1 goal every 311 minutes played
Naismith - 1 goal every 447 minutes played
Sykes - 1 goal every 485 minutes played
James - 1 goal every 598 minutes played

So when you look at goals per time played Cornick is actually our third most prolific scorer and not that far behind Bell or Wells.

Cornick has started 4 games, Preston on the Right side, Oxford on the Right Side, Birmingham on the Right Side and Norwich, again, on the right side. Cornick is not a right winger at all, so he's being judged whilst playing out of position, not to his strengths and being ridiculed and insulted every time he makes a mistake. How is the bloke supposed to prove himself when anything other than scoring is not good enough, he's being played out of position and a little more than half the amount of play time than the man who plays where he is best suited. He's being given no chance of getting consistent and yesterday really peeved me off as the West Brom keeper made a fantastic save and the City fans lit up social media with how he'd missed and is "crap".

Yesterdays chance when you actually look at it from a non overly critical point of view shows Cornick make a great run to get in front of his marker, take control of an awkward ball coming across his body on his chest, pushing the ball down with it, a very hard technique and then getting the shot on target as soon as he could at which point the keeper had closed him down very quickly to only have 5 yards between him and Cornick. Essentially what we saw was a good run, a fantastic touch off the chest from a fast paced ball and a shot on target from a ball just about to bounce of the ground. A lot of our fans are choosing to see what they want to see, as they saw a key chance "missed" when the shot was actually on target and had required some good football to even create it. 

I don't think it matters what Cornick does anymore, people have already made their minds up and he's now going to have to score goals in a team that plays him out of his best position, gives him far less time on the pitch than his teammates in the same position and in a team that has the third highest xG in the league but is 20th in goals scored.
The fact is we're not converting enough chances into goals, Cornick is not the only one struggling here, the whole team is and yet it's Cornick who gets called out every time he fails, whilst others get forgiven or looked over.

Its fair to say a fully firing Tommy Conway changes this landscape -

When he's back it's imperative we keep him fit

[Dr Balls]

We are clearly short of goals without Conway and to a lesser extent Weimann. To lose one would be unfortunate but to have both out injured was always going to make it difficult for us to score many goals. We also have a midfield that doesn’t score many (and didn’t either when Scott was here) so that means we are really struggling.

Where we have generally improved appears to be defensively both at the back and in midfield. Despite our low scoring rate we haven’t conceded many either and yesterday was at least a clean sheet. If you don’t let the opposition score you are at least guaranteed a point. Of course, that thought of an improved defence is going to be put to the test at Leicester next weekend…

[Benneythered]

Should be scoring it all day long, fresh off the bench and can see the whole goal. The guy needs to do something soon he's had two clear chances at home and not scored either.

[mozo]

1 hour ago, Spike said:

I think at this point many fans have made their mind up, I mean people are criticising him almost every time he doesn't score with a chance and yet the same people love Wells and when he missed an absolute sitter against Birmingham he was forgiven the next week and people stopped speaking of it.

Another thing that bothers me is that when you look at the stats for this season:

Wells - 1 goal every 279 minutes played
Bell - 1 goal every 285.5 minutes played
Cornick - 1 goal every 291 minutes played
Knight - 1 goal every 311 minutes played
Naismith - 1 goal every 447 minutes played
Sykes - 1 goal every 485 minutes played
James - 1 goal every 598 minutes played

So when you look at goals per time played Cornick is actually our third most prolific scorer and not that far behind Bell or Wells.

Cornick has started 4 games, Preston on the Right side, Oxford on the Right Side, Birmingham on the Right Side and Norwich, again, on the right side. Cornick is not a right winger at all, so he's being judged whilst playing out of position, not to his strengths and being ridiculed and insulted every time he makes a mistake. How is the bloke supposed to prove himself when anything other than scoring is not good enough, he's being played out of position and a little more than half the amount of play time than the man who plays where he is best suited. He's being given no chance of getting consistent and yesterday really peeved me off as the West Brom keeper made a fantastic save and the City fans lit up social media with how he'd missed and is "crap".

Yesterdays chance when you actually look at it from a non overly critical point of view shows Cornick make a great run to get in front of his marker, take control of an awkward ball coming across his body on his chest, pushing the ball down with it, a very hard technique and then getting the shot on target as soon as he could at which point the keeper had closed him down very quickly to only have 5 yards between him and Cornick. Essentially what we saw was a good run, a fantastic touch off the chest from a fast paced ball and a shot on target from a ball just about to bounce of the ground. A lot of our fans are choosing to see what they want to see, as they saw a key chance "missed" when the shot was actually on target and had required some good football to even create it. 

I don't think it matters what Cornick does anymore, people have already made their minds up and he's now going to have to score goals in a team that plays him out of his best position, gives him far less time on the pitch than his teammates in the same position and in a team that has the third highest xG in the league but is 20th in goals scored.
The fact is we're not converting enough chances into goals, Cornick is not the only one struggling here, the whole team is and yet it's Cornick who gets called out every time he fails, whilst others get forgiven or looked over.

That would be a very compelling argument, but aren't you including the Oxford game in this sample?

If so, keep to league games and tell a different story.

Oxford are having a decent season but I don't include that game when appraising where we are this season because it was clear outlier.

 

[Spike]

19 hours ago, mozo said:

That would be a very compelling argument, but aren't you including the Oxford game in this sample?

If so, keep to league games and tell a different story.

Oxford are having a decent season but I don't include that game when appraising where we are this season because it was clear outlier.

 

The same game that Wells scored in, we remove that and Wells scoring record gets worse again. Yes Cornick has no goals if you take that away but Wells plays in the middle, every game, Cornick has had around 20-40 minutes there. If Cornick had as many minutes as Wells in the middle I think we'd be seeing a whole different discussion but the fact is Cornick is willing to play out of position, Wells simply cannot and yet we're cussing out Cornick for not scoring from out wide when that's not his game.

[ExiledAjax]

Downgraded to 0.12 xG by Opta.