Max...top shot stopper.

[spudski]

 

[GrahamC]

Bloody stats.

“Not good enough”, apparently..

[CyderInACan]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Bloody stats.

“Not good enough”, apparently..

Nowhere near as good as Bentley mind . . . 

[Selred]

Glad for Max, he's really steady but also this stat shows he faces far too many shots, so we need to close players down more. 

I think Onana had conceded 7 goals in the 9 shots he's faced in the past 7 games. Okay that's poor shot stopping, but also shows that United don't allow teams to get many shots away.

[ExiledAjax]

It's a good stat, but it's partly because the quality of the shots he has faced have been poor on the whole.

xGA/shot on target against of 0.23, which is low - many keepers are facing an average shot on target with xG of 0.3 or more. In fact most of the guys on that list have similar xGA/SoT rates, suggesting that Max may not be a true stand out in that field, and indeed calling the whole list "elite" is probably hyperbole, but all are obviously "doing the job".

Now that's not a bad caveat as it suggests that the other players are helping him to achieve an 80% save rate by forcing the opposition to take poor quality shots.

Together the two figures show that the low number of goals conceded is no accident and that we have a truly solid defensive unit.

Edited September 26, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Major Isewater]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

that we have a truly solid defensive unit.

At long blooming last! 

[ExiledAjax]

12 minutes ago, Selred said:

Glad for Max, he's really steady but also this stat shows he faces far too many shots, so we need to close players down more. 

I think Onana had conceded 7 goals in the 9 shots he's faced in the past 7 games. Okay that's poor shot stopping, but also shows that United don't allow teams to get many shots away.

No it doesn't show that. It's a % based stat. A goalie who faced one terrible shot and saved it would have a 100% save ratio. That doesn't mean anything.

Max has faced 32 shots on target, from 100 total shots against our goal. That puts him 11th highest of championship keepers for SoT against, and as a team we are in the lower half of the rankings for shots against.

These tweets are just misleading by quoting one stat in isolation of the context provided by others.

Edited September 26, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Cityboy1954]

25 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Nowhere near as good as Bentley mind . . . 

What the keeper afraid of crosses

[Davefevs]

Interesting that I think opponents have stopped pumping the ball on top of Max.  That is a big compliment to Max.

Last season his aerial stats were high, ie number of claims and punches.

This season they are well down.

[chinapig]

10 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No it doesn't show that. It's a % based stat. A goalie who faced one terrible shot and saved it would have a 100% save ratio. That doesn't mean anything.

Max has faced 32 shots on target, from 100 total shots against our goal. That puts him 11th highest of championship keepers for SoT against, and as a team we are in the lower half of the rankings for shots against.

These tweets are just misleading by quoting one stat in isolation of the context provided by others.

Yep, never take one measure in isolation especially if it's a %, which can be very misleading. Always ask % of what?

[frenchred]

Stats can be made to show anything you want. Anyone got a stat for how many saves he's had to make as a result of his mistakes and/or giving the ball away himself

He's not good enough to be number 1, never had been and doubt he ever will be

[Selred]

58 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

No it doesn't show that. It's a % based stat. A goalie who faced one terrible shot and saved it would have a 100% save ratio. That doesn't mean anything.

Max has faced 32 shots on target, from 100 total shots against our goal. That puts him 11th highest of championship keepers for SoT against, and as a team we are in the lower half of the rankings for shots against.

These tweets are just misleading by quoting one stat in isolation of the context provided by others.

Well corrected!! It was as it was so high, and clearly with the % meant he hadn't faced under 10 shots. Agree about misleading stats!

[Curr Avon]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Bloody stats.

“Not good enough”, apparently..

Don't worry Graham, the Max Factor will see the doubters make-up.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, Selred said:

Well corrected!! It was as it was so high, and clearly with the % meant he hadn't faced under 10 shots. Agree about misleading stats!

It's the fault of the Twitter account. They should publish stats like these with at least a little bit of context!

[Curr Avon]

53 minutes ago, Cityboy1954 said:

What the keeper afraid of crosses

No, that's vampires.

[grifty]

What’s his % of passes and goal kicks that go out for a throw in?

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

2 minutes ago, grifty said:

What’s his % of passes and goal kicks that go out for a throw in?

A lot less than Frankie Fielding % when he played for us. 

[Silvio Dante]

I’ve been critical of Max, but never his shot stopping so this stat is no surprise and in some way just confirms what we already knew was his strong suit.

As I’ve said on many occasions, the point that makes (me and others) have doubts is distribution and decisions. This has been a lot better in the last three games - there have been less “floaty” kicks and distribution has either been relatively accurate long passes or solid clearances (The one occasion in the first half against Plymouth aside!) and he was MoM for me Saturday for his holistic performance.

If he can keep up the broad form and distribution shown since the break I’ll be happy. I’m not going to hang him on one poor clearance in three games - that’s a heck of an improvement ratio on where he was where it was 1/2 poor decisions that led to chances and several poor clearances a game. I think Naismith back there really helps as he’s prepared to get the ball in tight situations and work it out - just proves how one players game can really positively impact another’s.

[bcfc01]

32 minutes ago, grifty said:

What’s his % of passes and goal kicks that go out for a throw in?

TBF, he did a couple of very impressive long passes on saturday.

[Cityboy1954]

39 minutes ago, Curr Avon said:

No, that's vampires.

That was Bents for all his shot stopping.

[1960maaan]

Supposing these stats are right. 

Max top of save %

City ; per game

9th in XGAgainst

5th XGDifference

12th xG vs Actual goals conceded

3rd GA 

And we've played top, 3rd & 4th. 

I'd say the whole back 5 have improved as a unit. Great that when we concede chances we have a keeper performing well. Plus we have what was going to be our starting RB still to play and last years starting CB yet to play this season.
I'd say, so far so good.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2023 by 1960maaan

[REDOXO]

I can take the fact his eyebrows have come down for a drink while he’s playing well!

[downendcity]

I know we've had a change of personnel in the back 4 but also think that one of the reasons we look more solid at the back is that defenders are more confident with Max behind them than they were with Bents between the sticks.

[1960maaan]

6 minutes ago, downendcity said:

I know we've had a change of personnel in the back 4 but also think that one of the reasons we look more solid at the back is that defenders are more confident with Max behind them than they were with Bents between the sticks.

Where Bentley would back away from through balls, approached crosses like he had a bungee rope tied to a post and Divers boots on, Max comes for crosses and is clear with his shouts. Knowing what the keeper will do makes a big difference to the defence. That has shown over the time he has played , we look much more solid as a unit.
I liked Bents, but we needed a change.

[GrahamC]

33 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Supposing these stats are right. 

Max top of save %

City ; per game

9th in XGAgainst

5th XGDifference

12th xG vs Actual goals conceded

3rd GA 

And we've played top, 3rd & 4th. 

I'd say the whole back 5 have improved as a unit. Great that when we concede chances we have a keeper performing well. Plus we have what was going to be our starting RB still to play and last years starting CB yet to play this season.
I'd say, so far so good.

 

 

 

 

True- I’d just add two more points;

We look well drilled as a side, I posted after the West Brom game that out of possession we usually have a good shape & presumably Curtis Fleming’s coaching is a big part of that.

Secondly I take your point about the absence of McCrorie, Atkinson & now Vyner, but the back four that we fielded at Leicester (Tanner, Dickie, Naismith, Pring) wasn’t exactly shabby, Pearson said recently that the squad was certainly tight in terms of numbers but the difference in quality within it is now much narrower, which is spot on.

[Davefevs]

Here’s the game by game stats if anyone is interested:

Saves with reflexes are “shots from near distance…” hence needing a reaction.

Leicester’s Hermansen reflex saves are 47.6%.

Here’s Onana:

 

[brad blit]

The key difference for me between Max and Dan was always Max's ability with the ball at his feet. Its become such an important role now for Keepers to be able to make pinpoint long range passes to start attacking plays, and very recently his kicking in the Plymouth game was brilliant. Nigel has been trying to implement playing out from the back ever since he became our Manager and it starts with the GK.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, brad blit said:

The key difference for me between Max and Dan was always Max's ability with the ball at his feet. Its become such an important role now for Keepers to be able to make pinpoint long range passes to start attacking plays, and very recently his kicking in the Plymouth game was brilliant. Nigel has been trying to implement playing out from the back ever since he became our Manager and it starts with the GK.

Like Silvio, I don’t think Max is brilliant with his distribution, ie not always the greatest decision-maker or executor, but he generally has a better starting position, so he can be a bit of a sweeper-keeper and can be used as a bit of an outfielder player (within reason) too.  Nor does he run backwards when a ball is knocked back to him.  That is something that helps our back-four I reckon.  Add to that the stuff he dies in and around his 6-yard box and he is certainly competent at this level.

Should we push on from 9th towards the playoffs we will get to see his true ability.

[headhunter]

28 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Like Silvio, I don’t think Max is brilliant with his distribution, ie not always the greatest decision-maker or executor, but he generally has a better starting position, so he can be a bit of a sweeper-keeper and can be used as a bit of an outfielder player (within reason) too.  Nor does he run backwards when a ball is knocked back to him.  That is something that helps our back-four I reckon.  Add to that the stuff he dies in and around his 6-yard box and he is certainly competent at this level.

Should we push on from 9th towards the playoffs we will get to see his true ability.

I hope not 

[bcfc01]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Like Silvio, I don’t think Max is brilliant with his distribution, ie not always the greatest decision-maker or executor, but he generally has a better starting position, so he can be a bit of a sweeper-keeper and can be used as a bit of an outfielder player (within reason) too.  Nor does he run backwards when a ball is knocked back to him.  That is something that helps our back-four I reckon.  Add to that the stuff he dies in and around his 6-yard box and he is certainly competent at this level.

Should we push on from 9th towards the playoffs we will get to see his true ability.

I think his distribution has improved greatly this season from a low starting point, his long passing is now quite good imo, he's largely cut out the slow lofty kicks which gives the opposition time to react to them.

It is his decision making that needs improvement imo, giving the ball to a team mate where the team mate has no options for a pass isn't good and he does that too often for comfort. 

But he's earned his place and will only get better.