Naismith

[Super]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Effectively?  What by being on the pitch when a goal goes in.  The lengths people will go to scapegoat / blame a particular player is bizarre.

By your evaluation of assists - what you you give Pring for those?  2 goals?  Golden Boot? 

By all means criticise for a dangling leg pen last week, but don’t look for reasons.

About the same as blaming a ref when we lose like many seem to do

Edited October 1, 2023 by Super

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, Super said:

About the same as blaming a ref when we lose like many seem to do

So you agree, the criticism of Naismith for the goals is way OTT?

[Super]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

So you agree, the criticism of Naismith for the goals is way OTT?

He was weak for 3rd no blame for 1st.

[Dr Balls]

The common thread of all 3 goals yesterday is that they came down their right side and our left. Does that suggest we have an issue there? Yes because Pring was often left isolated against Leris, who was probably Stoke’s best player on the day, either by Bell not tracking back or not getting support from Naismith. I don’t think Naismith is completely hopeless defensively but he is caught out too often in a centre back pairing and is more suited to being one of a trio of central defenders or better still playing as a sweeper just in front of a pair of proper centre backs. Whether Naismith could play that role with James as a defensive midfield pairing, leaving Knight as the forward running midfielder, is something to consider. What we would lose is the hustling of Williams but it might be worth a try.

[BasSavage88]

13 hours ago, Bristol_Badger said:

Same one that got in to the championship team of the season the year before last? 

Wasn't he playing with 2 other CBS who covered his poor defending? If you watch the fifa stats reveal vid he says himself he's not a good defender 

[The chief]

3rd he was culpable -headed the ball into their forward’s path . Wasn’t helped by whoever missed the first header from their keepers boot upfield- cardinal sin letting the ball bounce !

He missed a tap in too! 
 

We defended their goals very poorly as a team though so it’s not all on Naismith . Very sloppy-threw 3 points away. 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

The common thread of all 3 goals yesterday is that they came down their right side and our left. Does that suggest we have an issue there? Yes because Pring was often left isolated against Leris, who was probably Stoke’s best player on the day, either by Bell not tracking back or not getting support from Naismith. I don’t think Naismith is completely hopeless defensively but he is caught out too often in a centre back pairing and is more suited to being one of a trio of central defenders or better still playing as a sweeper just in front of a pair of proper centre backs. Whether Naismith could play that role with James as a defensive midfield pairing, leaving Knight as the forward running midfielder, is something to consider. What we would lose is the hustling of Williams but it might be worth a try.

They overloaded our left (their right) most of the first half too, once they went 2-0 down.

I guess some of that is to stop Pring, but I guess also Wesley v Naismith aerially from their long balls.  Naismith fouled regularly though

[spudski]

25 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

The common thread of all 3 goals yesterday is that they came down their right side and our left. Does that suggest we have an issue there? Yes because Pring was often left isolated against Leris, who was probably Stoke’s best player on the day, either by Bell not tracking back or not getting support from Naismith. I don’t think Naismith is completely hopeless defensively but he is caught out too often in a centre back pairing and is more suited to being one of a trio of central defenders or better still playing as a sweeper just in front of a pair of proper centre backs. Whether Naismith could play that role with James as a defensive midfield pairing, leaving Knight as the forward running midfielder, is something to consider. What we would lose is the hustling of Williams but it might be worth a try.

45% of their attacks were down our left side. 

Only 25% down our right. 

That suggest an obvious game plan. 

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

I guess some of that is to stop Pring,

 

Didn't really work though, I thought Pringy was excellent yesterday.  One of the sad things was that despite the result, we had a number of players put in a really good shift. 

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Didn't really work though, I thought Pringy was excellent yesterday.  One of the sad things was that despite the result, we had a number of players put in a really good shift. 

Yes, lots of lung-busting runs forward.  I still don’t think he’s quite hit last seasons heights though, and I do wonder whether Bell doesn’t create enough space for him?

[Fuber]

12 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If we would have only Vyner, Dickie , Atkinson as natural CBs this is inevitable. You need two right footed and two left footed genuine CBs I believe.

Should we read anything into the fact that these errors came about in Vyner's absence? Vyner-Naismith as a pair worked okay IMO. Not that I don't rate Dickie but different pairs have different characteristics etc.

Always thought the squad 3 light.

This. Essentially. I agree Pops.

Zak bailed Naismith out a couple of times with his pace - an example of where he couldn't was Cullen against us for Swansea's goal (he also jogged back for that one too).

Think Dickie and Zak will be the go to once the latter is fit. Atkinson back as cover also once fit until one of the two go out of form.

What I wouldn't mind is rotating Kal into midfield - he's good in a 50:50 and we lack a bit of steel at times. Ironically will credit Dickie today. Really tried pushing play up the pitch.

One player who hasn't impressed me off the bench so far since back is Andi. Would have bough Mehmeti on to give the latter a chance to make a point.

[Super]

39 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Didn't really work though, I thought Pringy was excellent yesterday.  One of the sad things was that despite the result, we had a number of players put in a really good shift. 

I don't get why he is so reluctant to hit a shot. A few times yesterday he had the ball just outside the box and he ended up chipping it into the box for the giant defenders.

[petehinton]

23 minutes ago, Fuber said:

This. Essentially. I agree Pops.

Zak bailed Naismith out a couple of times with his pace - an example of where he couldn't was Cullen against us for Swansea's goal (he also jogged back for that one too).

Think Dickie and Zak will be the go to once the latter is fit. Atkinson back as cover also once fit until one of the two go out of form.

What I wouldn't mind is rotating Kal into midfield - he's good in a 50:50 and we lack a bit of steel at times. Ironically will credit Dickie today. Really tried pushing play up the pitch.

One player who hasn't impressed me off the bench so far since back is Andi. Would have bough Mehmeti on to give the latter a chance to make a point.

Naismith has also bailed Zak & us out a fair few times this season. Two brilliant last ditch tackles in the space of 3 seconds against Plymouth, not to mention the excellent last ditch one against WBA. 
 

Are people really expecting him to be as good on the ball as he is, with his delivery, and his passing, play CB be strong as **** and make no mistakes? And still be in the championship?! 
 

I think Vyner has had a good season don’t get me wrong, but let’s not shy away from the fact a fair few of his last ditch excellent defensive tackles have come from errors he’s made in the first instance. 
 

We were incredible defensively last week. This week we got done by an absolute wonder strike (yes, could’ve been defended better, but he’s still got a hell of a lot to do), their second is a good cut back that takes a deflection on it way past Max, third we’ve been hit after throwing everything forward to try and win the game again. It’s football. It’s definitely the championship. It’ll happen to us again this season probably, and I’ve no doubt we’ll do it to someone this season too like we have done countless times over the last 2 seasons. 

We absolutely should’ve been out of sight. Two decent penalty shouts, Yeboah’s chance cleared from 4 yards out, Naismith’s from the same distance straight at the keeper, Bell getting on the end of Sykes cross, Wells hitting Long Ashton from 20 yards out centrally with no defenders ahead of him.

First time we’ve conceded more than 2 goals in a game in the league in almost exactly 12 months, that doesn’t scream to me constant defensive fragility or that we’ve been lucky this hasn’t happened earlier with whoever we’ve had at the back. 
 

One of the most frustrating losses in many a game, but definitely not one to start making 5/6 changes from, including putting Roberts at LCB on Wednesday…!?

[Offside]

I thought Naismith struggled defensively yesterday and seemed to get out-muscled quite often (although I agree with other posters that there were a lot of fouls the ref didn’t give). But then again the defending by the whole team for their goals was weak. 

[GrahamC]

35 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Naismith has also bailed Zak & us out a fair few times this season. Two brilliant last ditch tackles in the space of 3 seconds against Plymouth, not to mention the excellent last ditch one against WBA. 
 

Are people really expecting him to be as good on the ball as he is, with his delivery, and his passing, play CB be strong as **** and make no mistakes? And still be in the championship?! 
 

I think Vyner has had a good season don’t get me wrong, but let’s not shy away from the fact a fair few of his last ditch excellent defensive tackles have come from errors he’s made in the first instance. 
 

We were incredible defensively last week. This week we got done by an absolute wonder strike (yes, could’ve been defended better, but he’s still got a hell of a lot to do), their second is a good cut back that takes a deflection on it way past Max, third we’ve been hit after throwing everything forward to try and win the game again. It’s football. It’s definitely the championship. It’ll happen to us again this season probably, and I’ve no doubt we’ll do it to someone this season too like we have done countless times over the last 2 seasons. 

We absolutely should’ve been out of sight. Two decent penalty shouts, Yeboah’s chance cleared from 4 yards out, Naismith’s from the same distance straight at the keeper, Bell getting on the end of Sykes cross, Wells hitting Long Ashton from 20 yards out centrally with no defenders ahead of him.

First time we’ve conceded more than 2 goals in a game in the league in almost exactly 12 months, that doesn’t scream to me constant defensive fragility or that we’ve been lucky this hasn’t happened earlier with whoever we’ve had at the back. 
 

One of the most frustrating losses in many a game, but definitely not one to start making 5/6 changes from, including putting Roberts at LCB on Wednesday…!?

As usual completely fair.

Also despite the “injury crisis” rhetoric on here, we are only Vyner short of the players available that we started the season off with now.

That means we will have to persist with a Dickie & Naismith CB pairing & as TGH is the most likely midfielder to come in, with Tanner at RB if he’s fit.

Logic of that is we need to accept we are shorter of pace in the central defensive area & set up accordingly.

Wednesday’s team will be interesting, we play again very soon afterwards & do have (the defence aside) more options than in some while. We also don’t know if Sykes will be fit enough to be involved.

Certainly can see the logic in TGH & Cornick both starting, Weimann too if Sykes is ruled out, but that would be enough changes for me.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by GrahamC

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

As usual completely fair.

Also despite the “injury crisis” rhetoric on here, we are only Vyner short of the players available that we started the season off with now.

That means we will have to persist with a Dickie & Naismith CB pairing & as TGH is the most likely midfielder to come in, with Tanner at RB if he’s fit.

Logic of that is we need to accept we are shorter of pace in the central defensive area & set up accordingly.

Wednesday’s team will be interesting, we play again very soon afterwards & do have (the defence aside) more options than in some while. We also don’t know if Sykes will be fit enough to be involved.

Certainly can see the logic in TGH & Cornick both starting, Weimann too if Sykes is ruled out, but that would be enough changes for me.

 

I suppose the thing is the defence injury crisis is an ongoing thing as both Atko and McCrorie, who Pearson had wanted available, have been out since the start.

I wasn't terribly impressed with TGH yesterday. His snatching at that shot on goal, when he had time to get it under control, summed up a meh afternoon for him.  He'll have better games for us I'm sure. 

[pikeysrobins]

Naismith is very culpable of not chasing back for sure with an attitude of ‘I’ll leave that to the others’ when his line of defence has been broken. If that happened to Vyner, Pring or Dickie they would chase back and do all they can to retrieve the situation.

 

Another incredibly annoying  Naismith occurrence from yesterday. We had 5-6 minutes to find an equaliser and Naismith aside we did our utmost without impact to do so. (This is something I have liked about the City of late - heads remain up for the most part when we concede and we go all out again to score again even if often without penetration and result). Anyway…back to my Naismith point… when Stoke scored on 89 minutes he practically gave up both physically and mentally. He spent 6 minutes throwing his toys out of his pram and played like a teenager who had just been grounded for a week! His head went, he had poor body language and his head and feet disconnected resulting him spraying around several misplaced passes. Not the attitude that’s going to endear him to the crowd if he wants a song about him. 
 

Naismith has qualities for sure but yes it’s not part of being a back line. 

[pongo88]

4 hours ago, tin said:

I suspect we would be stronger down that left side with Roberts at LB and Pring further forward. 

As for Naismith, I think he’s better in midfield but until Atkinson’s fit, Roberts is the only CB alternative. Other than that, it’s the academy boys. If only we had some cash to address that lack of strength in depth!

I like Naismith; his vision and ability to pick a pass is essential. But he’s a costly mistake waiting to happen at CB and it’s pretty clear Vyner was mopping up behind him as well.

 

2 hours ago, Dr Balls said:

The common thread of all 3 goals yesterday is that they came down their right side and our left. Does that suggest we have an issue there? Yes because Pring was often left isolated against Leris, who was probably Stoke’s best player on the day, either by Bell not tracking back or not getting support from Naismith. I don’t think Naismith is completely hopeless defensively but he is caught out too often in a centre back pairing and is more suited to being one of a trio of central defenders or better still playing as a sweeper just in front of a pair of proper centre backs. Whether Naismith could play that role with James as a defensive midfield pairing, leaving Knight as the forward running midfielder, is something to consider. What we would lose is the hustling of Williams but it might be worth a try.

I was about to make these comments about the left back / left side problems as I’ve always thought that Pring would make a good left sided midfield player. If he moved to left midfield with Roberts at left back it would strengthen the defence when the opposition attacks and give an added bit of energy in midfield when City attack. 
 

As for Naismith, he obviously has skill but, IMO, he lacks the pace, physicality and mentality, to produce a consistent performance. He looks good when not under pressure but when the crunch comes I’m sure he gives a lot of supporters the collywobblefications 

[tin]

1 minute ago, pongo88 said:

I was about to make these comments about the left back / left side problems as I’ve always thought that Pring would make a good left sided midfield player. If he moved to left midfield with Roberts at left back it would strengthen the defence when the opposition attacks and give an added bit of energy in midfield when City attack. 

As for Naismith, he obviously has skill but, IMO, he lacks the pace, physicality and mentality, to produce a consistent performance. He looks good when not under pressure but when the crunch comes I’m sure he gives a lot of supporters the collywobblefications 

I’ve always thought Pring’s best position is LW, but I think we currently lack a No.9 or someone (Sykes?) gambling to get on the end of his deep crosses which are often to the far post. I think we’d be better defensively from that side if we made that change and that in turn would help Naismith is he has to play CB. 

I would bench Bell to accommodate Roberts, which might be harsh, but I think he offers little defensively and still has spells where he’s anonymous for large periods. That a different debate, though. 

[pongo88]

25 minutes ago, tin said:

I’ve always thought Pring’s best position is LW, but I think we currently lack a No.9 or someone (Sykes?) gambling to get on the end of his deep crosses which are often to the far post. I think we’d be better defensively from that side if we made that change and that in turn would help Naismith is he has to play CB. 

I would bench Bell to accommodate Roberts, which might be harsh, but I think he offers little defensively and still has spells where he’s anonymous for large periods. That a different debate, though. 

I like that (I suggested the same in a post a few weeks ago). It might surprise a few people to suggest moving a left back to left wing but players changing position isn’t unusual. As an example Clive Whitehead moved in the opposite direction, for City, when he went from the wing to full back. Donnie Gillies moved from centre forward to full back. Bobby Reid moved from midfield, where he was average, to a central forward position, where he was excellent. If you want to take an extreme example Ray Cashley started out as a full back and then had a good career for City as a goalkeeper! 

[Simon bristol]

I think kal has a place in midfield along side james, or in his place if hes out, but seeing as he was brought in, presumably on a good salary as a top centre back, i dont think hes been a particularly great signing?

[Spike]

Whilst on this subject of busting a gut and making the best efforts there was a situation at the end of the game yesterday that irked me, Weimann is known for always giving 100% even if he doesn't always produce but yesterday there was an incident where he went down easily and rather than get back up when the free kick was not given he stood around complaining as Stoke got on with it. In comparison at that exact moment Cornick was chasing down three men and busting a gut to try and regain possession. 
I cannot remember if it was directly before they came up and scored the winner or if it was a cycle or two before but I know not long afterwards they got the winner which really bothered me as I was thinking the same thing that OP posted about Naismith. That's two senior players either ball watching or complaining whilst our younger/ most critiqued players were running around giving 100%. 
I think what bothers me the most is both Weimann and Naismith have so much to offer to this squad but it seems to come at a cost recently, Weimann just doesn't seem to have a place in this formation/tactic and Naismith for all of his qualities seems to not have the drive that Knight, Williams or James have which makes it very difficult in my mind to put them in the team. We're a team built on high energy, constant pressure and fast countering and whilst Naismith has qualities in carrying the ball and making direct passes his energy and drive seem to be lacking.
If we had a 100% fit squad I do wonder if our back 2 would be best being contended by Vyner, Atkinson and Dickie and I do not see how Naismith gets in the middle unless we go Naismith, James and Knight as James always gives his all, controls the midfield off of the ball and does a lot of work that is overlooked so I cannot see how we drop him, Knight has an engine and a drive that is unrivalled in closing down and chasing 50/50's so I can't see how we can drop him which leaves Williams and Naismith competing for that last spot.

I'm kind of interested in what our first 11 is if the whole squad was fit? I personally think O'Leary, TGH, Vyner, Atkinson, Pring, Naismith, James, Knight, Bell, Wells, Sykes. That said, I personally would have Cornick in front of Wells, Wells scored yesterday but I honestly think given enough games in the middle instead of Wells and we'd really see what Cornick has to offer. I think yesterday he got a raw deal, Wells got a goal given to him and then Cornick wasn't brought on until we were actually struggling to create meaning he really wasn't given anything to work with and yet he closed down, made a few decent moves that created space and as we pushed on and started having a better last section of the game he looked sharp, I do worry that Wells is being picked over him because of experience and the attitude many of our fans have towards Cornick, but I can see a good player who just needs consistency rather than being thrown on whenever we're struggling.

We also have a situation where Pring was showing some of his best quality again yesterday and Bell was his usual menace meaning neither Mehmeti or Roberts are getting a chance and whilst with Mehmeti it's not overly surprising he's not getting a chance Roberts has looked sharp every time he's been given a chance, I think the left side is actually stacked with Roberts and spring both more than capable of playing LB or LWF but Bell is undroppable right now.

I still can't say "this is our best 11" without umming or ahhhing about some positions but I do think Pearson needs to consider how Weimann fits into this team and he certainly needs to have a word with Naismith about if he's capable of keeping up with our playstyle as a center back as to me he looks a little too slow and lacking the stamina to keep up with the rest of the team at times despite having some of the best technical abilities in the team.

[Shauntaylor85]

2 hours ago, Super said:

I don't get why he is so reluctant to hit a shot. A few times yesterday he had the ball just outside the box and he ended up chipping it into the box for the giant defenders.

West Ham must be watching him closely. He’s got all the attributes to get to the PL. Expect some bids. Cam is our best player IMO. 

[Davefevs]

@Spike the Weimann incident by the Dolman was in injury time, after we’d gone 3-2 down.  He got a yellow card for his moaning.

McCrorie will be the RB used most of the time when everyone is fit.

[real_bristol]

20 hours ago, Harry said:

Ok. Before I start, I just want to make it clear that I do like Naismith very much and he’s arguably the best passer, best organiser & talker and most composed player we have in the squad. 
 

But…… 

For Stoke’s winning goal today, Naismith committed what I view as a cardinal sin. 

My biggest pet hate is players not putting in the effort to get back. Whether that’s just simple tracking of a runner or busting a gut to make up for an error or loss of possession. 
 

Their winning goal today started about 30 seconds before where Naismith had the ball just inside our half, wide to the left. He had time and he looked up and saw he had a nice easy pass inside. He chose not to make the pass, travelled forwards, ended up down an alley and lost the ball. Not long after, they hit a long ball forward - Naismith was favourite for the header but misjudged it completely and ended up underneath it. 
The key point to note here is that the Stoke player who he challenged aerially was the guy who ended up scoring. 
 

After misjudging the header, Naismith stands still. He now watches the play unfold. And 7 seconds later, the chap he’s just jumped with slotted in the winner. 
Naismith was now approximately 25 yards away from him. 
 

Now, as said, I do like Naismith. But this, for me, is the biggest sin you can commit on a football pitch. 
I can forgive errors, misjudgments, mistakes, slips of concentration etc, but the one thing I cannot tolerate is lack of effort. 
Naismith simply gave up on this play. He missed the header and immediately went into “oh bugger” mode. If he’d stayed focussed instead of being frustrated with himself he’d have tracked back with the eventual goalscorer. 
 

Now, I’m not saying he’d have ended up preventing the goal, but he’d have had a darn well better chance of doing so had he not just given up altogether. 
 

I like him, but actions like this are unforgivable in my book. 
It’s not something I’ve seen from him before, so I’ll allow him some slack on this, but his actions (or lack of) have lost us this game and if I see anything like that from him again he’ll be going into my naughty book - and once you’re in there you gotta turn it around something special to get out of it

Don’t give up. Track back. Effort and commitment must be at max. This one is on Naismith. Let’s hope we don’t see it again. 

Great assessment by the OP here. Always thought Naismith is great going fwd but prone to the mother of all **** ups. I’m not against selecting positive-minded players but without someone like Zak to mop up the shite we are in trouble. Hopefully big Dickie just needs games to get up to Zak’s standards but thought he looked pretty soft for their 3rd as well. There was possibly some giving up in there which is unacceptable.

Edited October 1, 2023 by real_bristol

[James54De]

4 hours ago, Spike said:

Whilst on this subject of busting a gut and making the best efforts there was a situation at the end of the game yesterday that irked me, Weimann is known for always giving 100% even if he doesn't always produce but yesterday there was an incident where he went down easily and rather than get back up when the free kick was not given he stood around complaining as Stoke got on with it. In comparison at that exact moment Cornick was chasing down three men and busting a gut to try and regain possession. 
I cannot remember if it was directly before they came up and scored the winner or if it was a cycle or two before but I know not long afterwards they got the winner which really bothered me as I was thinking the same thing that OP posted about Naismith. That's two senior players either ball watching or complaining whilst our younger/ most critiqued players were running around giving 100%. 
I think what bothers me the most is both Weimann and Naismith have so much to offer to this squad but it seems to come at a cost recently, Weimann just doesn't seem to have a place in this formation/tactic and Naismith for all of his qualities seems to not have the drive that Knight, Williams or James have which makes it very difficult in my mind to put them in the team. We're a team built on high energy, constant pressure and fast countering and whilst Naismith has qualities in carrying the ball and making direct passes his energy and drive seem to be lacking.
If we had a 100% fit squad I do wonder if our back 2 would be best being contended by Vyner, Atkinson and Dickie and I do not see how Naismith gets in the middle unless we go Naismith, James and Knight as James always gives his all, controls the midfield off of the ball and does a lot of work that is overlooked so I cannot see how we drop him, Knight has an engine and a drive that is unrivalled in closing down and chasing 50/50's so I can't see how we can drop him which leaves Williams and Naismith competing for that last spot.

I'm kind of interested in what our first 11 is if the whole squad was fit? I personally think O'Leary, TGH, Vyner, Atkinson, Pring, Naismith, James, Knight, Bell, Wells, Sykes. That said, I personally would have Cornick in front of Wells, Wells scored yesterday but I honestly think given enough games in the middle instead of Wells and we'd really see what Cornick has to offer. I think yesterday he got a raw deal, Wells got a goal given to him and then Cornick wasn't brought on until we were actually struggling to create meaning he really wasn't given anything to work with and yet he closed down, made a few decent moves that created space and as we pushed on and started having a better last section of the game he looked sharp, I do worry that Wells is being picked over him because of experience and the attitude many of our fans have towards Cornick, but I can see a good player who just needs consistency rather than being thrown on whenever we're struggling.

We also have a situation where Pring was showing some of his best quality again yesterday and Bell was his usual menace meaning neither Mehmeti or Roberts are getting a chance and whilst with Mehmeti it's not overly surprising he's not getting a chance Roberts has looked sharp every time he's been given a chance, I think the left side is actually stacked with Roberts and spring both more than capable of playing LB or LWF but Bell is undroppable right now.

I still can't say "this is our best 11" without umming or ahhhing about some positions but I do think Pearson needs to consider how Weimann fits into this team and he certainly needs to have a word with Naismith about if he's capable of keeping up with our playstyle as a center back as to me he looks a little too slow and lacking the stamina to keep up with the rest of the team at times despite having some of the best technical abilities in the team.

You wouldn’t put Conway in our first choice 11? 

[Spike]

15 hours ago, James54De said:

You wouldn’t put Conway in our first choice 11? 

I mean in all fairness he skipped my mind benday of his injury, I'd put him first and then Cornick but at this point I'd like to see either Cornick or Conway get a good run in that position ahead of Wells as I don't think Wells does a good enough job. 

Conway was showing amazing talent before his injury so I am interested to see how he does after getting back and having some time starting, Cornick I also think could offer more in that middle role given an actual run, not just 30 minutes on as a sub here and there.