FBC - do we want to get promoted?

[Grey Fox]

1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

He would have had 12 months left on his deal and therefore his value would decrease. His injury was known as well as he missed the first game of the season because of it. 
 

He would not fire us to promotion as he would be either injured or out of match fitness for almost half of the season. So I would call that more of a “pipe dream” than a “promotion gamble”.

 

 

Good grief, 1) in 12 months his value may reduce but could equally rise depending on his form and the clubs interested in him, 2) clearly his injury wasn’t known, or at least the seriousness of it wasn’t, as Bournemouth & Boscombe would not have paid what they did, 3) neither of us know if he would have been injured if he stayed here, so he may have “ fired us to promotion “.

Remember , negative people have a problem with every solution

COYRs

[Rocking Red Cyril]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

It’s just the usual mixed messages from SL.

All very good points, words and figures differ don’t they?

Yep, don’t disagree on Scott. It’s all about the pulling up of the drawbridge after the sale where my frustration lies.

Yes, SL wants to sell, but he will struggle to find a buyer because he will price it (which bits he wants to sell or the whole thing) too high.  But nobody has a sustainable club at Champ level, so that doesn’t add up. The cost base is too high. The wage budget can’t really go any lower. 

So it seems from that successfully club cannot be sustainable ?

So it's promotion or keeping the books balenced

Or is that how SL see it's. ?

So therefore time to sell 

[marcofisher]

43 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Good grief, 1) in 12 months his value may reduce but could equally rise depending on his form and the clubs interested in him, 2) clearly his injury wasn’t known, or at least the seriousness of it wasn’t, as Bournemouth & Boscombe would not have paid what they did, 3) neither of us know if he would have been injured if he stayed here, so he may have “ fired us to promotion “.

Remember , negative people have a problem with every solution

COYRs

Not at all, I am positive it was the right thing to do at the time. Would have been more positive if we had reinvested more of the Scott money

[petehinton]

46 minutes ago, Grey Fox said:

Good grief, 1) in 12 months his value may reduce but could equally rise depending on his form and the clubs interested in him, 2) clearly his injury wasn’t known, or at least the seriousness of it wasn’t, as Bournemouth & Boscombe would not have paid what they did, 3) neither of us know if he would have been injured if he stayed here, so he may have “ fired us to promotion “.

Remember , negative people have a problem with every solution

COYRs

Bournemouth knew the severity of the injury, as his medical and scans were not showing good signs at all. They said as much after it was confirmed, but they wanted him so badly they are willing to take the hit and gamble. 
 

If it was a ‘normal’ signing or maybe someone that wasn’t top of the list, it was a bad enough injury for them to scrap the deal. 

[Andy082005]

2 hours ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

But we're only a club losing say 15 - 20 mill not 40 mill (say) because we've sold our best player and not re-invested the money in players. How long will that policy "sustain" 11th to 14th in the Championship? How long will Nige stick around doing that? Maybe Steve thinks "as long as it's long enough for me to sell up/get some return" that's good enough for him.

I'd imagine though that most potential investors are bright enough to see through that sort of "sustainability." 

Do you know what - I’m not fussed either way whether Pearson stays or goes come the end of the season. He has done his job - but - my personal opinion is we should be doing better than what we are. 
 

I certainly don’t understand the reaction from some fans that “we must keep Nige at all costs” or “will he stick around”

He hasn’t done enough to get a better job then the one he has 

 

[Bedred31]

I almost collided with the Luton team coach yesterday while negotiating a mini roundabout in Bedford. It was being used as part of a Thameslink replacement rail service. (Sunday engineering work etc). This says something but after 24 hours thought I’m still not sure what. Either a refreshing example of a modest, down to earth spirit. Or a pathetic illustration of a hopelessly cheap outfit. Either way, as I said to my neighbour back from Everton, I’m glad I’m a City fan.

[tin]

21 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@headhunter started a thread, based on the question….or are we happy to tread water in the Champ.

Yes, staying in the Championship is not what I aspire to…but that assumes we have some semblance of investment from whoever is in charge.  I want promotion, or at least a tilt at it, because it’s not easy to achieve.

If we are now expected to be sustainable / profit making, the answer is very different.

“We” being the Lansdowns? The answer is blatantly no. If they were serious about promotion, they would have spent the last two decades getting their ducks in row to ultimately create a winning environment — and that goes beyond bricks and mortar. 

It means having the humility to hire people in senior positions who are, or have the potential to be, better than you; who can challenge your opinions freely and openly, and drive success. It means having a culture where people can be the best they can be in every department everyday, from the ticket office and the marketing team to the branding and kit deals that impact on how we are perceived. 

Things like that would help to make us PL-ready off the pitch, and the sad reality is we could not be further from that if we tried. I’d even go as far to say we’re getting increasingly amateur off the pitch and the irony is, IMO, that things are moving in the right direction on the pitch, even if that is slow progress because of the unnecessary austerity imposed on the manager. 

[Davefevs]

Well said @tin

[Kid in the Riot]

11 minutes ago, tin said:

“We” being the Lansdowns? The answer is blatantly no. If they were serious about promotion, they would have spent the last two decades getting their ducks in row to ultimately create a winning environment — and that goes beyond bricks and mortar. 

It means having the humility to hire people in senior positions who are, or have the potential to be, better than you; who can challenge your opinions freely and openly, and drive success. It means having a culture where people can be the best they can be in every department everyday, from the ticket office and the marketing team to the branding and kit deals that impact on how we are perceived.

Absolutely spot on. And ultimately that culture you describe HAS to come from the very top. The manager can do a lot, but can't influence everything. 

The drive and determination for success needs to come from the owners, and filter down through a CEO, through the manager and coaches, and then into all aspects of the football club.

Funnily enough, they were talking about similar on Football Weekly today regards Man United under the Glazers. The litany of managers failing under the Glazers' ownership isn't too dissimilar to the list under SL, is it? That's because it doesn't matter how good a manager is, if the structure around them isn't up to scratch, then whilst they may have some short-term success (think Gary Johnson, Steve Cotterill) ultimately they will fail, as the foundations the club is built on aren't strong enough.

[marmite]

22 minutes ago, tin said:

“We” being the Lansdowns? The answer is blatantly no. If they were serious about promotion, they would have spent the last two decades getting their ducks in row to ultimately create a winning environment — and that goes beyond bricks and mortar. 

It means having the humility to hire people in senior positions who are, or have the potential to be, better than you; who can challenge your opinions freely and openly, and drive success. It means having a culture where people can be the best they can be in every department everyday, from the ticket office and the marketing team to the branding and kit deals that impact on how we are perceived. 

Things like that would help to make us PL-ready off the pitch, and the sad reality is we could not be further from that if we tried. I’d even go as far to say we’re getting increasingly amateur off the pitch and the irony is, IMO, that things are moving in the right direction on the pitch, even if that is slow progress because of the unnecessary austerity imposed on the manager. 

Very well put. Most fans of course would like promotion to the Prem, even if it was for one season only.

I think the trouble is that SLs ambition is just to avoid relegation.

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, Andy082005 said:

Do you know what - I’m not fussed either way whether Pearson stays or goes come the end of the season. He has done his job - but - my personal opinion is we should be doing better than what we are. 
 

I certainly don’t understand the reaction from some fans that “we must keep Nige at all costs” or “will he stick around”

He hasn’t done enough to get a better job then the one he has 

 

He won’t get a better job because he’s said this will be his last one….and he’s had ample better jobs in the past than the one he’s currently in!

He absolutely has done enough, more than enough, to be given another deal. If people want to live off win % stats and whatever else then go for it. We were celebrating getting corners when he came in. First team players playing hide & seek during training, first team players thinking it was deemed strict to ask to be on time for meetings. A squad full of players that had absolutely £0 in value, combined. 
 

The culture he’s sorted and created is nothing short of exemplary, but as he’s sorted out so much mess the Lansdown’s won’t admit to have being set in at the club anyway, we’ll never hear the full extent of it. 

[Mr Chappers]

On 01/10/2023 at 20:56, frenchred said:

Really? 

Wow

Well worn path, spend money you don’t have, fail, massive cutbacks, relegation.

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Mr Chappers said:

Well worn path, spend money you don’t have, fail, massive cutbacks, relegation.

We are well clear of FFP now.

Most people are not I assume advocating a crazy spending spree, merely 2-3 signings in key areas to bolster the strength and depth, to perhaps accelerate our development a bit.

[tin]

8 hours ago, Mr Chappers said:

Well worn path, spend money you don’t have, fail, massive cutbacks, relegation.

Historically, maybe, but not this time around as the rebuild did not result in relegation and that’s a testament to the job Nige has done IMO.

And where has this “money you don’t have” come from? We made circa £35m of pure profit in 2023 and have spent less than 20% of that. 

I haven’t seen anyone advocating a reckless approach or calling for us to spend all of that; just add one or two quality players in key positions. 

“What football makes, football can spend” - Steve Lansdown

[Cityboy1954]

On 02/10/2023 at 09:22, Abraham Romanovich said:

I too had no idea what it meant, one of my pet hates is talking in acronyms 

FWIW

Forever Bristol city podcast after every game on podcast usually a good listen .

[Welcome To The Jungle]

Personally I'd rather the club was financially stable, and not reliant on any outside investment. The steps made recently of bringing through academy players is great to see. Of course I'd like to see us go up, but we cannot mortgage the club to achieve that. 

• Play attacking football
• Bring through academy players
• Harvest a good club atmosphere
• Might go down, might go up

 

[KegCity]

37 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

Personally I'd rather the club was financially stable, and not reliant on any outside investment. The steps made recently of bringing through academy players is great to see. Of course I'd like to see us go up, but we cannot mortgage the club to achieve that. 

• Play attacking football
• Bring through academy players
• Harvest a good club atmosphere
• Might go down, might go up

 

Are there any clubs outside the Premier League that don’t rely on outside investment?

[Kid in the Riot]

3 minutes ago, KegCity said:

Are there any clubs outside the Premier League that don’t rely on outside investment?

Exeter City?

[GrahamC]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Exeter City?

Yes & with the greatest of respect to their excellent achievements, a club who plays in a ground similar to Rovers, average under 7000 & consider League One stability is a decent effort isn’t really a valid comparison.

Even minnows at our level like Rotherham are spending millions on players.

If we are going to compete for top six, let alone strongly challenge then sustainability is not a realistic concept, no one has ever done this since Sky got involved in football.

[Kid in the Riot]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yes & with the greatest of respect to their excellent achievements, a club who plays in a ground similar to Rovers, average under 7000 & consider League One stability is a decent effort isn’t really a valid comparison.

Even minnows at our level like Rotherham are spending millions on players.

If we are going to compete for top six, let alone strongly challenge then sustainability is not a realistic concept, no one has ever done this since Sky got involved in football.

I know someone that went for the head of finance job at Exeter recently and they were saying the donations they receive (from about 3,000 fans) don't come close to covering the clubs operating costs. 

They are completely reliant on selling around £2-3m worth of academy talent each season, otherwise they are in the shit. 

Have to admire them though, really punching above their weight, given the constraints they operate under.

[fisherrich]

18 hours ago, petehinton said:

He won’t get a better job because he’s said this will be his last one….and he’s had ample better jobs in the past than the one he’s currently in!

He absolutely has done enough, more than enough, to be given another deal. If people want to live off win % stats and whatever else then go for it. We were celebrating getting corners when he came in. First team players playing hide & seek during training, first team players thinking it was deemed strict to ask to be on time for meetings. A squad full of players that had absolutely £0 in value, combined. 
 

The culture he’s sorted and created is nothing short of exemplary, but as he’s sorted out so much mess the Lansdown’s won’t admit to have being set in at the club anyway, we’ll never hear the full extent of it. 

No ambition, no senior management structure, no CEO, joke of a Board = FAILURE.

[fisherrich]

25 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I know someone that went for the head of finance job at Exeter recently and they were saying the donations they receive (from about 3,000 fans) don't come close to covering the clubs operating costs. 

They are completely reliant on selling around £2-3m worth of academy talent each season, otherwise they are in the shit. 

Have to admire them though, really punching above their weight, given the constraints they operate under.

Agreed, there “HPC centre” is basically a field and nothing much else.

[sh1t_ref_again]

Yes I want promotion, but not until we are ready to go up and be completive, unlike some on here who are just desperate to visit the prem stadiums or have all the big teams coming to AG, whilst watching it again on MOTD, I have no desire for this if we are getting stuffed every week, and the talk on MOTD is we are a joke. But some will argue that an embarrassing year in the prem is worth it as we will then have parachute payments and maybe have a more chance of going back up.

Currently bar doing a Luton, the only way we will get up and be competitive is having youngsters coming though the academy or young players we can talent spot and bring in, who are future prem starts. I think SL did want to keep Alex, but the injury meant we had to take the deal, but this is were the much attacked by some "nest egg" comes in, as it will allow us to keep our young stars without the financial pressure on us and maybe start to develop a home grown team, we tried the chucking cash and it did not work and could have badly backfired.

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

I know someone that went for the head of finance job at Exeter recently and they were saying the donations they receive (from about 3,000 fans) don't come close to covering the clubs operating costs. 

They are completely reliant on selling around £2-3m worth of academy talent each season, otherwise they are in the shit. 

Have to admire them though, really punching above their weight, given the constraints they operate under.

Their accounts are public and are very transparent and this is absolutely true. They have approx 3,500 "owners" who pay at least £24 per year. That's just £84,000. It's negligible.

As you say, they absolutely have to average £3m(ish) in net player sales every season.

We'd have to average about 10x that, so an Alex Scott every season. Never going to be possible sadly unless the whole structure and economy of football changes.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Yes I want promotion, but not until we are ready to go up and be completive, unlike some on here who are just desperate to visit the prem stadiums or have all the big teams coming to AG, whilst watching it again on MOTD, I have no desire for this if we are getting stuffed every week, and the talk on MOTD is we are a joke. But some will argue that an embarrassing year in the prem is worth it as we will then have parachute payments and maybe have a more chance of going back up.

Currently bar doing a Luton, the only way we will get up and be competitive is having youngsters coming though the academy or young players we can talent spot and bring in, who are future prem starts. I think SL did want to keep Alex, but the injury meant we had to take the deal, but this is were the much attacked by some "nest egg" comes in, as it will allow us to keep our young stars without the financial pressure on us and maybe start to develop a home grown team, we tried the chucking cash and it did not work and could have badly backfired.

Yep, think there’s a recruitment model to apply here.  Young players to grow and not be lumbered by high fees (amortisation) and wages if you do come back down.  And free transfers, either experienced but on short term, or other OOC players.

39 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Their accounts are public and are very transparent and this is absolutely true. They have approx 3,500 "owners" who pay at least £24 per year. That's just £84,000. It's negligible.

As you say, they absolutely have to average £3m(ish) in net player sales every season.

We'd have to average about 10x that, so an Alex Scott every season. Never going to be possible sadly unless the whole structure and economy of football changes.

Looks like they get donations too, unsure how much though as it’s under “Grants and Donations”.

[ExiledAjax]

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, think there’s a recruitment model to apply here.  Young players to grow and not be lumbered by high fees (amortisation) and wages if you do come back down.  And free transfers, either experienced but on short term, or other OOC players.

Looks like they get donations too, unsure how much though as it’s under “Grants and Donations”.

We get donations Dave. One guy donates quite a bit every season.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

We get donations Dave. One guy donates quite a bit every season.

Not sure I’d call them donations…he wants it back.

(assume we are talking about the same “one guy”)

Edited October 3, 2023 by Davefevs

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

We get donations Dave. One guy donates quite a bit every season.

He's the owner, it's "His club." I make 'donations' to the up keep of my house and family well being. No one forced him to buy the club. Being a so called astute financial wizard you would have thought that it should be no surprise that said 'donations' need to be made on an annual basis.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I suppose the equity is a donation of sorts as it means for every pound converted it won't fall on the club to repay him.

Whether he then includes said equity in full as part of the asking price well thst is another matter. It's not a donation as such no certainly.

[Grey Fox]

3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Yes I want promotion, but not until we are ready to go up and be completive, unlike some on here who are just desperate to visit the prem stadiums or have all the big teams coming to AG, whilst watching it again on MOTD, I have no desire for this if we are getting stuffed every week, and the talk on MOTD is we are a joke. But some will argue that an embarrassing year in the prem is worth it as we will then have parachute payments and maybe have a more chance of going back up.

Currently bar doing a Luton, the only way we will get up and be competitive is having youngsters coming though the academy or young players we can talent spot and bring in, who are future prem starts. I think SL did want to keep Alex, but the injury meant we had to take the deal, but this is were the much attacked by some "nest egg" comes in, as it will allow us to keep our young stars without the financial pressure on us and maybe start to develop a home grown team, we tried the chucking cash and it did not work and could have badly backfired.

With respect, did you listen to either of Uncle Steve’s interviews. He won’t be keeping “our young stars “, but where possible will be selling them to cover our annual running cost deficit. Only sale receipts above the deficit figure, will be available to spend (what football makes, football can spend).

What this means is the club’s focus is on finding, developing and selling players, not promotion ( unless we can do a Luton). With no ambition, we are never going to be “ready to go up “ under the current regime.