What has changed?

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, The Swan and Cemetery said:

Think the OP is saying if basing only on league position that would be a bit fickle? Given we’re 4 points above 18th and 2 points above 15th, think league position alone would be an odd rationale for the swing in sentiment.

From a supporters perspective think a) people are seeing the fruits of culture change and like seeing a team that works hard and to the end (however much that should be a given) and b) are frustrated by the lack of support in the transfer window, particularly given NP has maintained (improved vs the latter stages of LJ and all of DH reigns) our position, with a vastly smaller and less expensive squad. 

Suspect NP is more frustrated by the snippy/passive aggressive comments from the hierarchy about expectations, inc comparisons to the tactical genius Mark Robins. Think he’s more comfortable than the supporters to operate on a very tight budget, but (quite rightly) expects to be recognised for doing so. 

In terms of why we’d want NP continuing if not getting on with the doves from above, think NP without support is still likely to deliver more success than a supported innovative young manager (/sycophant), which is surely what we’d get. Whether NP fancies continuing is a different matter, albeit with supporters on his side, he may see it as an intriguing battle of wills. 

Who would just base it on league position alone? Seems a bit strange. I don’t really understand what the argument is. The poll was on OTIB for fans?

[cityexile]

2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

...One obvious answer is league position. We were 18th on 26 December 2022, and are currently 8th...but surely people aren't that fickle....

 

Au contraire...

[The Swan and Cemetery]

15 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Who would just base it on league position alone? Seems a bit strange. I don’t really understand what the argument is. The poll was on OTIB for fans?

OP said league position changed, but surely people not that fickle. Some posts in the chain saying the league position change is a factor. You said fickle was reductive. I was saying that it would be fickle (agreeing with OP), but don’t think that’s why people’s views have changed (despite the other comments), agreeing with you. Basically OP, you and me all agreeing! 

[Lack of Action Man]

What has changed is that we have learned collectively that a lot of the reasons why the club is stagnating is not due to the management or coaching staff but rather it is due to the erratic behaviour of the board (minus RG and PA) and majority shareholder. 
 

In addition to that NP has:

1) Trimmed a heavily bloated squad.

2) Blooded academy and young players.

3) Carefully managed fan expectations of league and cup performance.

4) Been clear to the media that he likes the club, he enjoys living in this part of the world and wants to stay. 
 

[David Brent]

Why does it matter what’s changed? Why can’t we just accept the current opinion?

Those who are fully behind NP, but weren’t previously, obviously see enough in the job he’s done and is doing.

We all know football fans are fickle but why wouldn’t you back the bloke who 97%* of fans are currently in favour of?

[And Its Smith]

Basically, we were 18th with no real sign of improving and he was sticking to a formation that wasn’t working.  Hardly surprising that those fans who are always the first to call for change were getting louder.  Then we had a change in formation, which led to a change in confidence and results improved. As did the standard of football.  There was suddenly proof of progression.  Really easy to see why the two polls are different I would say 

[INCRED]

NP was given a big task to sort out an overpaid underperforming squad and keep us in the Championship 

I think he more than achieved that brief and has stabilised the playing side albeit with a level of inconsistency but now with a much smaller & tighter squad 

I’m not sure what the hierarchy expect from NP when he’s had very little scope and budget to work with?

Unless SL wants to spend and go for it  again then we will have to wait and see a la Rooney at Brum but learn the lessons of the past and stick with NP and give him some funds to push us another step forward and if he fails then that is the time to change 

[ExiledAjax]

40 minutes ago, OddBallJim said:

What has changed is that we have learned collectively that a lot of the reasons why the club is stagnating is not due to the management or coaching staff but rather it is due to the erratic behaviour of the board (minus RG and PA) and majority shareholder. 
 

In addition to that NP has:

1) Trimmed a heavily bloated squad.

2) Blooded academy and young players.

3) Carefully managed fan expectations of league and cup performance.

4) Been clear to the media that he likes the club, he enjoys living in this part of the world and wants to stay. 
 

Wasn't he doing/had done all of this last year? Or were people waiting for Massengo to leave an Leeson to debut before truly being convinced?

I agree all 4 are things to like about Pearson, but I don't think they are new things that have appeared in the past 10 months.

I guess we land back at the awareness point that has been made - people have become aware of these things and so changed their opinions. Maybe?

[downendcity]

I'd suggest that while more fans will have seen and appreciated the work NP has done,  the most significant change has been fans' attitude/opinion of SL over the last year.

Pearson's contract is by far the biggest stick with which to beat the owner (I'm not saying that to defend SL), but the groundswell of negative opinion towards SL will surely crescendo if Pearson is allowed to leave without a new contract.

Until now I'd wondered whether NP saw this current contract as his last and wanted to finish nest summer. His post match comments seem to have nailed his flag to the mast as wanting to extend his stay and throwing down the gauntlet to the owner.

 

 

 

[Silvio Dante]

The other thing is that IIRC that poll was immediately post West Brom, and possibly the worst performance under NP. So, if you want to ask what’s changed then yesterday is a damn good microsm.

In both games, we were rudderless, shapeless and dominated by the opposition. The difference is that against Coventry that lasted 40 minutes and the side showed exactly what they are - a team who will fight for the shirt and each other. That wasn’t there against WBA, but it was turned round bloody quickly - I think Millwall was next where a lot of the traits displayed yesterday were evident.

I’ve no doubt Nige used his “barbed words” because he knows that what goes down better than anything else with a fanbase - more than an easy 2-0, more than a “flair” 4-1, is a performance against the odds where everything was left on the pitch. You add in that we know the constraints, we know he’s been shafted on the Scott money (and I’d love to hear Phil Alexander’s story incidentally), and fans can see it for what it is - a very good manager doing a job way beyond expectations despite all the hurdles.

A poll in the heat of the WBA game Vs a poll yesterday probably aren’t the best comparatives as emotions are heightened and you get disproportionate high/low results on both cases. But it doesn’t change the narrative.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Silvio Dante

[LondonBristolian]

I don’t think I ever wanted him to go - I can’t remember for sure - but the big difference for me between then and now is consistency. 

For Pearson’s first couple of seasons, we generally improved but there was nonetheless a sense we could suddenly turn up and play terribly with no clear rhyme or reason.

This season, there has only really been one game where we’ve not turned up and Pearson has shown he can get a small squad constrained by budget limitations to give consistent performances, even when players are injured.

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

Why does it matter what’s changed? Why can’t we just accept the current opinion?

Those who are fully behind NP, but weren’t previously, obviously see enough in the job he’s done and is doing.

We all know football fans are fickle but why wouldn’t you back the bloke who 97%* of fans are currently in favour of?

Why wouldn't one back the guy that 97% of fans are currently in favour of?

Because 10 months ago fan consensus was to sack him! So, if fan consensus is to be followed now...then it stands to reason he should have been sacked at the end of last year.

People are currently using the fact that the owner seems to not be following fan consensus as a stick to beat them with. But if fan consensus had been followed in December 2022 we'd currently not be discussing the prospect of Pearson's contract being extended.

[downendcity]

3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Why wouldn't one back the guy that 97% of fans are currently in favour of?

Because 10 months ago fan consensus was to sack him! So, if fan consensus is to be followed now...then it stands to reason he should have been sacked at the end of last year.

People are currently using the fact that the owner seems to not be following fan consensus as a stick to beat them with. But if fan consensus had been followed in December 2022 we'd currently not be discussing the prospect of Pearson's contract being extended.

So you're saying that City fans are fickle - surely not?

How very dare you!  

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Why wouldn't one back the guy that 97% of fans are currently in favour of?

Because 10 months ago fan consensus was to sack him! So, if fan consensus is to be followed now...then it stands to reason he should have been sacked at the end of last year.

People are currently using the fact that the owner seems to not be following fan consensus as a stick to beat them with. But if fan consensus had been followed in December 2022 we'd currently not be discussing the prospect of Pearson's contract being extended.

56/44 at a time when a question is predisposed to be answered a certain way (ie post a very poor performance) is not fan consensus and you know it. There’s a reason why most sensible referendums have a 70% threshold.

In the same way as 52/48 hasn’t been proven to be a “consensus” and has ended shittily, then had you gone with your 56/44 “consensus” with nobody agreeing on what the shape of Nigexit they’d want (so even the 56 not being in accord so actual chance of all being happy with his replacement being far lower) we’d be in far worse shape now 

Its a willingly disingenuous argument.

[ExiledAjax]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

56/44 at a time when a question is predisposed to be answered a certain way (ie post a very poor performance) is not fan consensus and you know it. There’s a reason why most sensible referendums have a 70% threshold.

In the same way as 52/48 hasn’t been proven to be a “consensus” and has ended shittily, then had you gone with your 56/44 “consensus” with nobody agreeing on what the shape of Nigexit they’d want (so even the 56 not being in accord so actual chance of all being happy with his replacement being far lower) we’d be in far worse shape now 

Its a willingly disingenuous argument.

I wanted him to stay in December 2022, and I don't want him sacked now. It wasn't my "accord" then and it isn't now.

I just wondered why people had changed their minds in 10 months, because elsewhere the 97% approval rating is being used as a mandate for him getting a new contract. It seems to be a combination of a) realising that he'd actually done a decent job up until Dec 22, b) a higher league position, c) a change in formation, and d) a reaction against the lack of support being given to him by the owners.

Not all are relevant to all fans, but most are stating one or more of these broad factors.

Great, thank you everyone for your answers, I find it very interesting.

I still don't see how any of it adds up to mean that he absolutely must get a new co tract offer, but I'm obviously on my own there, and that's for another thread.

Also, I know OTIB polls aren't legally binding, just as advisory referenda aren't...doesn't mean they don't get follows though does it!

[exAtyeoMax]

35 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Why wouldn't one back the guy that 97% of fans are currently in favour of?

Because 10 months ago fan consensus was to sack him! So, if fan consensus is to be followed now...then it stands to reason he should have been sacked at the end of last year.

People are currently using the fact that the owner seems to not be following fan consensus as a stick to beat them with. But if fan consensus had been followed in December 2022 we'd currently not be discussing the prospect of Pearson's contract being extended.

yes but is it exactly the same fans? And the same number of fans…

[David Brent]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Why wouldn't one back the guy that 97% of fans are currently in favour of?

Because 10 months ago fan consensus was to sack him! So, if fan consensus is to be followed now...then it stands to reason he should have been sacked at the end of last year.

People are currently using the fact that the owner seems to not be following fan consensus as a stick to beat them with. But if fan consensus had been followed in December 2022 we'd currently not be discussing the prospect of Pearson's contract being extended.

If only my auntie had bollocks..

Right now the general consensus is he should be allowed to continue in the role.

There are more than enough reasons to support that consensus.

Why is there a few % who are desperate to ignore all the work that’s been done?

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, exAtyeoMax said:

yes but is it exactly the same fans? And the same number of fans…

I don't know, and no. Hence I started this thread to see if any who have changed their minds would mind explaining it, a few did and I find it interesting.

48 minutes ago, David Brent said:

If only my auntie had bollocks..

Right now the general consensus is he should be allowed to continue in the role.

There are more than enough reasons to support that consensus.

Why is there a few % who are desperate to ignore all the work that’s been done?

I can't wait to hear the consensus in a few weeks' time. 

[Sheltons Army]

What’s changed ?

Simply a number of posters / voters have opened their eyes , or rather , had their eyes prised open by what was / is actually happening and the piece by piece demolition and rebuild

 

Some , quite a few were  , and are , obsessed with ppg , goal difference , XG , even league position and don’t look any deeper or with any context 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[David Brent]

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I can't wait to hear the consensus in a few weeks' time. 

Hopefully after Nige has signed the ting.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

To my mind, the fact that the previous poll was straight after the Baggies game tells you all you need to know.

just for the record, I was NP in then and still am.

[lenred]

30 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I don't know, and no. Hence I started this thread to see if any who have changed their minds would mind explaining it, a few did and I find it interesting.

I can't wait to hear the consensus in a few weeks' time. 

Why?

[italian dave]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

I'd suggest that while more fans will have seen and appreciated the work NP has done,  the most significant change has been fans' attitude/opinion of SL over the last year.

Pearson's contract is by far the biggest stick with which to beat the owner (I'm not saying that to defend SL), but the groundswell of negative opinion towards SL will surely crescendo if Pearson is allowed to leave without a new contract.

Until now I'd wondered whether NP saw this current contract as his last and wanted to finish nest summer. His post match comments seem to have nailed his flag to the mast as wanting to extend his stay and throwing down the gauntlet to the owner.

 

 

 

True, yet ironically it was SL who stuck with NP last year, when the majority voted for the sack! And now it turns out that everyone thinks that was the right decision!!

I’m with you on that last paragraph. 

11 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

What’s changed ?

Simply a number of posters / voters have opened their eyes , or rather their eyes prised open by what was / is actually happening and the piece by piece demolition and rebuild

 

Some , quite a few were  , and are , obsessed with ppg , goal difference , XG , even league position and don’t look any deeper or with any context 

Presumably, having wobbled their heads?

[italian dave]

5 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Who would just base it on league position alone? Seems a bit strange. I don’t really understand what the argument is. The poll was on OTIB for fans?

If we’d lost yesterday, we’d now be 17th! No-one’s going to convince me that would be the difference for 45% of people voting! 

[Top Robin]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

If only my auntie had bollocks..

Right now the general consensus is he should be allowed to continue in the role.

There are more than enough reasons to support that consensus.

Why is there a few % who are desperate to ignore all the work that’s been done?

I'm 'Pearson out', but I totally appreciate the work that Pearson has done both on and off the pitch. 

And in general, performances have improved albeit punctuated with some dross.

However, it is just my opinion that with  Pearson in charge, we will neither get related or promoted and he will just keep us floating around in that middle area of the league

For many City fans, that may be OK as it would show stability and a mixture of good performances and probably some not so good.,

But, there must be some fans who aspire for greater things and would prefer to see more consistent quality performances where we will be serious promotion contenders.

I know Pearson has stabilized us but I do not feel that he has the dynamism and ability to get us promoted.

Tbh, I don't know who could do this for us right now and until we find someone who can, we may as well stick with Nige.

 

 

 

 

 

[fisherrich]

So when is the next Poll - Lansdown In or Lansdown Out coming??

[westonred]

Hopefully he will have sold the club to someone who is interested in taking this club forward before the next poll

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Top Robin said:

I'm 'Pearson out', but I totally appreciate the work that Pearson has done both on and off the pitch. 

And in general, performances have improved albeit punctuated with some dross.

However, it is just my opinion that with  Pearson in charge, we will neither get related or promoted and he will just keep us floating around in that middle area of the league

For many City fans, that may be OK as it would show stability and a mixture of good performances and probably some not so good.,

But, there must be some fans who aspire for greater things and would prefer to see more consistent quality performances where we will be serious promotion contenders.

I know Pearson has stabilized us but I do not feel that he has the dynamism and ability to get us promoted.

Tbh, I don't know who could do this for us right now and until we find someone who can, we may as well stick with Nige.

 

 

 

 

 

Out of interest, does your opinion change re “kicking on” if Nige gets backing to bring in another couple / few of the likes of JK and TGH (or better), with the Scott money?  Is your position on Nige what it is because of the constraints he’s working under, or do you just think he doesn’t “have it”?  No right or wrong answer either.

 

[Top Robin]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Out of interest, does your opinion change re “kicking on” if Nige gets backing to bring in another couple / few of the likes of JK and TGH (or better), with the Scott money?  Is your position on Nige what it is because of the constraints he’s working under, or do you just think he doesn’t “have it”?  No right or wrong answer either.

 

Dave, as an ardent City fan, nothing would give me more pleasure than Nige bringing in a couple of player who can transform our team into a more consistent, quality outfit and we will all be happy.

But tbh, he has been given money, albeit not lots and he has targeted and signed players who have had mixed degrees of success.

However, I think that Nige may have lost the energy and dynamism that he had in the Leicester days and although he has stabilized us, I feel he will not be the one to get us promoted....but we won't go down.

Just my view at the moment and I would love it if he succeeds and gets us up.

 

 

 

[westonred]

13 hours ago, Top Robin said:

Dave, as an ardent City fan, nothing would give me more pleasure than Nige bringing in a couple of player who can transform our team into a more consistent, quality outfit and we will all be happy.

But tbh, he has been given money, albeit not lots and he has targeted and signed players who have had mixed degrees of success.

However, I think that Nige may have lost the energy and dynamism that he had in the Leicester days and although he has stabilized us, I feel he will not be the one to get us promoted....but we won't go down.

Just my view at the moment and I would love it if he succeeds and gets us up.

 

 

 

To me i think NP still has the passion but he must be so pi**ed off and it's starting to show as he is getting no support from above, he has his hands tied from an owner and son who are showing no interest in the football side of things anymore. SL and JL need to come out and address the fans to let us know what the hell is going on