What has changed?

[ExiledAjax]

Two polls. Roughly 10 months and two transfer windows apart. 

In one, 56% vote to sack Pearson, in the second, 97% (at time of writing) want to give him some sort of contract extension.

My question, obviously targeted at those who have changed their opinion - and there must be a few given the numbers - is what has changed in those 10 months?

One obvious answer is league position. We were 18th on 26 December 2022, and are currently 8th...but surely people aren't that fickle?

I'm honestly curious as my opinion has not changed over the last 10 months and I seem to be pretty isolated in the "Pearson shouldn't be sacked but if he does leave then it's not the end of the world" camp.

 

 

[Bar BS3]

I can't see what you are confused about....

Upto last December we were pretty abysmal & NP's stats were up (down) there with the worst of any manager we've ever had.

Since then we have been much more competitive & are doing better in the league.

I think you'd struggle to find a club in the country where the fanbase aren't more content with the manager of a team in the top half of the table that the manager of a team who are in relegation trouble.

[GrahamC]

More people have realised the circumstances he’s working under & those previous critics have seen the fruits of his work.

Perversely the decision not to give him any more money to spend once Scott was sold could be key to this. There were a few wild posters expecting a Coventry style spending spree but even the more restrained of us expected more than a loan from WBA.

 

[cidercity1987]

I would have voted keep on both occasions however I can understand the fans wanting a change after that terrible West Brom game.

We were persisting with 3-5-2 which wasn't working but we then changed to 4-3-3 and results have been largely good since. Consistently top third form for almost a year now perhaps?

That is aside from the obvious improvements off the field.

Pearson has played the fans well onto his side but that's Lansdowns fault for Pearson being the sole one in the firing line when the chips were down(none of Pearsons making)

[tin]

1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

More people have realised the circumstances he’s working under & those previous critics have seen the fruits of his work.

Perversely the decision not to give him any more money to spend once Scott was sold could be key to this. There were a few wild posters expecting a Coventry style spending spree but even the more restrained of us expected more than a loan from WBA.

 

Exactly this. 

Not spending a penny of the Scott cash, especially after sailing so close to failing FFP, highlighted to many that Nige is doing the job with his hands tied behind his back. 

Mix that with more on-the-pitch progress and I think most fans can see we’re finally moving in the right direction after watching years of dross, ultimately caused by SL. After all, he’s the one who brought Ashton in and gave him the keys to the kingdom. 

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Upto last December we were pretty abysmal & NP's stats were up (down) there with the worst of any manager we've ever had.

Since then we have been much more competitive & are doing better in the league.

But that's really not true. Our numbers were fine in December last year (fine as in we weren't looking like relegation candidates) and we'd improved massively since he took over from Holden. Even if we reduce it to points per game then we were rolling at 1.4/1.5 per game earlier in the 2022/23 season, so I don't think it is just results, or shouldn't be at least.

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

More people have realised the circumstances he’s working under & those previous critics have seen the fruits of his work.

Perversely the decision not to give him any more money to spend once Scott was sold could be key to this. There were a few wild posters expecting a Coventry style spending spree but even the more restrained of us expected more than a loan from WBA.

So it's a reaction to a lack of support? It's just supporting the opposite of what Lansdown is doing because Steve is the big bad wolf who won't spend the money?

Did either of you vote to sack him in December?

[RedRoss]

I wasn't part of either sack or keep in that previous poll.. I think apathy had set in for me at that time and I considered the job a poisoned chalice for any manager.

You say surely people aren't that fickle. Of course they are especially when it comes to sport fans specifically football. It's a results based job and managers accept this when taking the job. However it's not solely the only reason fans, me included consider that Nigel has done a brilliant job. It's the context surrounding the results that is the main reason I support him right now. Drastically reducing the wage bill, hardly having any money to spend until this season (only after a huge clear out and two big sells) whilst maintaining and steadily improving our position in the table.

Another big part for my support is the culture he's manifested during his tenure. We may play crap sometimes but the players always seem to want it. This has given us some type of identity as a team. It might not be tiki taka but it's definitely hard work. This has to be credited to the Nigel, his staff and players of course.

He's got credit in the bank with me for sure right now. I'm not saying another manager couldn't do better than him but I think you'd be pushed to find one considering the circumstances.

[Bar BS3]

4 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

But that's really not true. Our numbers were fine in December last year (fine as in we weren't looking like relegation candidates) and we'd improved massively since he took over from Holden. Even if we reduce it to points per game then we were rolling at 1.4/1.5 per game earlier in the 2022/23 season, so I don't think it is just results, or shouldn't be at least.

So it's a reaction to a lack of support? It's just supporting the opposite of what Lansdown is doing because Steve is the big bad wolf who won't spend the money?

Did either of you vote to sack him in December?

You said it yourself - in December we were 18th.

Today we are 8th.

What fanbase wouldn't have a variable in poll results about the manager between those to 2 situations..?

In my mind, regardless of the limitations he was working within - we didn't look like we were progressing atall at that point.

Fast forward to now & we look alot more balanced & have much more of a fame plan that we did , pretty much upto the Millwall away game at that time.

Keeping in touching distance whilst having so many players out injured could well see us being capable of a serious top 6 challenge when they return & that is a whole different prospect to how things looked back in December last year, imho.

[GrahamC]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

 

So it's a reaction to a lack of support? It's just supporting the opposite of what Lansdown is doing because Steve is the big bad wolf who won't spend the money?

Did either of you vote to sack him in December?

You either didn’t read all what I said or have simply chosen not to.

I also said that he has persuaded some of his previous critics by what he’s done since.

Those who presumably were under the impression before he would be backed like his predecessors.

This is all opinion anyway (both mine & yours), not fact, a fact is that Pearson won a game yesterday with a squad of players available to him unlike any in the division in terms of Championship experience.

I would have thought my posting history would make it fairly obvious I voted to keep him, I have never wanted him sacked & would happily see him get 3 more years, let alone two.

[Red Exile]

9 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

So it's a reaction to a lack of support? It's just supporting the opposite of what Lansdown is doing because Steve is the big bad wolf who won't spend the money?

Did either of you vote to sack him in December?

I don't think I voted in the poll but after the WBA game I'd lost patience...but not necessarily with Pearson. What's changed is the Scott sale and what I perceive as a failure on the part of the club's owners to invest in a way that a) supports the manager and b) indicates ambition. Look at the bench yesterday - I think Pearson is being asked to make bricks with straw. Now when it comes to 'fickle' I've done my time, 50 years, watched us at Carlisle and York etc, and right now if Pearson left the little hope I had of progress would walk out the door with him. If Lansdown is the 'big bad wolf' its because he's donned the costume...there was never any need to, he's rapidly squandering whatever goodwill he had left.

[ralphindevon]

Back then there was no side to take and we all love taking a side in something we love.

Now it’s becoming more apparent every day that for most not all,  it’s either the Lansdown’s or Pearson you support and the Alex Scott money situation has pushed most into the Pearson camp.

Plus you have to remember how fickle a lot of fans are, if Coventry had taken 3 of their chances in the first half the numbers on Nige’s side this morning may not be as big.

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by ralphindevon

[westonred]

I think people are starting to realise that NP is doing a great job and what was asked of him. lower the wage bill, cut the size of the squad, get rid of the deadwood and also he had constructed a side difficult to beat on a limited budget. People are starting to realise that SL is the villian for all the great things he has done in the past Ground Training facilities etc he seems to be losing interest in the football side of things and only seems interested in money

[fisherrich]

IMO, most on here also now see through the Lansdown meddling/mess of running this football club. Clear to most that Lansdown needs to sell up and move on before we lose a decent manager in NP. 

 

 

 

[One Team]

2 minutes ago, westonred said:

I think people are starting to realise that NP is doing a great job and what was asked of him. lower the wage bill, cut the size of the squad, get rid of the deadwood and also he had constructed a side difficult to beat on a limited budget. People are starting to realise that SL is the villian for all the great things he has done in the past Ground Training facilities etc he seems to be losing interest in the football side of things and only seems interested in money

Spot on! NP is also the only person portraying anything remotely like transparency here; although I am sure he knows exactly what he’s doing by what he’s saying, when and to who. 

 

Edited October 22, 2023 by One Team

[Buster Footman's T shirt]

I have always been and continue to be a strong supporter of NP. In answer to the OP original question I believe it is because that along with the fact that most of the fan base can see and understand what he has done on the playing side with the hand he has been dealt there is also something else at play.

Namely with the club seemingly drifting from the top levels (I won't say board level as there isn't one worth the name) Nigel is the only face and leader at the club. Silence from all other quarters is deafening. Those of us that remember the days of Terry Cooper may recognise this. For very different reasons they both are/were the figureheads of the club and therefore the most important person in the club at that time.  Nigel is the Terry Cooper of modern times in my opinion. The hierarchy need to recognise this. Will they? I doubt it. Will we look back (any of us that are still here) in 40 years and see how important NP has been? Almost certainly I reckon. 

[B-Rizzle]

I was very much in the Pearson out camp last Christmas before he started sorting things out a bit.

I’ve never been quite convinced by him nor do I buy into the ‘he’s sorted the wages out’ narrative as that’s not his remit. However, I do respect the circumstances he’s worked in, the stability he’s slowly built and the strong foundations of a squad and coaching staff that we now have.

He definitely doesn’t deserve to be sacked but I do understand the reluctance to give him a new contract as he hasn’t ever quite done it on the pitch consistently, yet. I think this season with the good squad we now have is key in my mind about whether he deserves a new deal and the next couple of months could be key in this. Have a good run = new deal. Go on a bad run = could easily be sacked.

My biggest overall frustration in this is the lack of comment from SL from so long which has resulted in so much speculation. I wish he’d communicate better, or allow his employees (Tins) to on his behalf.

[Ian M]

I cannot profess to have changed my mind either but were we broadly operating under the assumption that we were going through a period of austerity and that when we emerged the other side, there would be a certain relaxing of the budgets to allow us to compete? It turns out that austerity is the permanent approach moving forward and given that, there's an element of "careful what you wish for"?

Nige has shown he is capable of maintaining, and maybe even improving upon our position within the Championship despite having his best players sold and offered peanuts to replace them with. Last season we bemoaned our small squad size yet we now operate on -1 vs last term. To get to +1 vs last season we would have needed to not sign Knight and sign 3 players on average L1 wages. And yet we are 1 point outside the play-offs.

How many managers have we seen falter at AG before when they've been given money to spend? If there's none to spend I know I'd damn well rather stick with Nige.

[Ian M]

7 minutes ago, One Team said:

Spot on! NP is also the only person portraying anything remotely like transparency here; although I am sure he knows exactly what he’s doing by what he’s saying, he when and to who. 

 

He's only able to do that because he's the only person at the club saying anything at all.

[One Team]

8 minutes ago, Ian M said:

He's only able to do that because he's the only person at the club saying anything at all.

Fair point Ian! 

[IAmNick]

I'm surprised you describe people potentially changing their minds as we're 10 positions better off in the table as "fickle"!

Seems like a bit of an odd hand wave away of a pretty legitimate reason people may be happier now to me.

If you want to base it off more than that - style of play and the work behind the scenes, that only strengthens Pearson's case in my mind.

[ExiledAjax]

30 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

I also said that he has persuaded some of his previous critics by what he’s done since.

Those who presumably were under the impression before he would be backed like his predecessors.

I actually need to remind myself to be delighted that more fans recognise now the good job he has done. That was my frustration ten months ago, that people were calling for the sack based solely on results. So I'd do need to remember that actually, I've kind of got what I wanted.

I guess I'm surprised that the needle has moved so far though. As personally he, or any other manager, could get us promoted and I'd not say it automatically deserves an extension.

33 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I don't think I voted in the poll but after the WBA game I'd lost patience...but not necessarily with Pearson. What's changed is the Scott sale and what I perceive as a failure on the part of the club's owners to invest in a way that a) supports the manager and b) indicates ambition. Look at the bench yesterday - I think Pearson is being asked to make bricks with straw. Now when it comes to 'fickle' I've done my time, 50 years, watched us at Carlisle and York etc, and right now if Pearson left the little hope I had of progress would walk out the door with him. If Lansdown is the 'big bad wolf' its because he's donned the costume...there was never any need to, he's rapidly squandering whatever goodwill he had left.

Interesting and thank you. But let me ask why does the lack of support for Pearson in the transfer window translate into a desire to see him given a new contract? If the current owners don't support him then why do you want that relationship to continue.

The answer may be "I don't, I want the Lansdowns to sell rather than Pearson be sacked". But I think we need to assume that a sale is not happening before Pearson's contract runs out at the end of the season, so that argument can be set aside for now.

[spudski]

It's the expectation by SL that I find annoying. 

He looks at the likes of Luton and expects us to do the same. 

He uses Clubs like that as an ' example' of it can be done, with arguably a weaker squad, and sees it as the only thing holding us back from replicating, is the manager. 

On paper, even with a fully fit squad, regardless of manager, we are not promotion contenders. 

That is not a realistic assumption. 

We are a squad like the majority of the division. One win away from approx 7th and 18th, as the latest table shows. 

The footballing side of the club is producing a conveyor belt of players that are being bloodied into the first team. Look at yesterday's bench. 

It's unheard of at other Championship clubs. 

The disappointment of losing Semenyo, Scott, little money re invested, the debacle of the kit, Robins TV, stadium outlet issues, etc etc, etc...that's the side of of things that are pointed towards the Lansdowns. Add that to the nest egg statement, no verbal backing of NP and SLs more apparent interest in the Rugby, then it's wearing thin with the fan base. 

[Red Exile]

18 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Interesting and thank you. But let me ask why does the lack of support for Pearson in the transfer window translate into a desire to see him given a new contract? If the current owners don't support him then why do you want that relationship to continue.

Good question. My answer would be that if they don't want to support him he will, presumably, go.

If I was offered a choice I'd rather the owners left the stage...but I've thought that for a while. The elder seems to have become disenchanted, his few comments seems to indicate his focus is elsewhere - Guernsey...Botswana - what I recall of his limited City related stuff is uninspiring or suggests resentment at the neediness and presumption of the fanbase. As for the younger - words fail me.

Football is an entertainment business.  I have sufficient geographical distance from Ashton Gate to make the journey seem a long one...a very long one if there's nothing entertaining at the end of it. You need hope. The Lansdowns offer none these days - by contrast Pearson has the qualities that a football fan of my ilk respects, and offers some hope.

[Ian M]

27 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I actually need to remind myself to be delighted that more fans recognise now the good job he has done. That was my frustration ten months ago, that people were calling for the sack based solely on results. So I'd do need to remember that actually, I've kind of got what I wanted.

I guess I'm surprised that the needle has moved so far though. As personally he, or any other manager, could get us promoted and I'd not say it automatically deserves an extension.

Interesting and thank you. But let me ask why does the lack of support for Pearson in the transfer window translate into a desire to see him given a new contract? If the current owners don't support him then why do you want that relationship to continue.

The answer may be "I don't, I want the Lansdowns to sell rather than Pearson be sacked". But I think we need to assume that a sale is not happening before Pearson's contract runs out at the end of the season, so that argument can be set aside for now.

I personally have taken the conclusion that Lansdown is tired of spending good money after bad on Bristol City and whilst the strings may initially be loosened with a new appointment, it won't be long term. So as I said above, I don't think I trust anyone to work with no budget more than I trust Nigel.

[exAtyeoMax]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

Two polls. Roughly 10 months and two transfer windows apart. 

In one, 56% vote to sack Pearson, in the second, 97% (at time of writing) want to give him some sort of contract extension.

My question, obviously targeted at those who have changed their opinion - and there must be a few given the numbers - is what has changed in those 10 months?

One obvious answer is league position. We were 18th on 26 December 2022, and are currently 8th...but surely people aren't that fickle?

I'm honestly curious as my opinion has not changed over the last 10 months and I seem to be pretty isolated in the "Pearson shouldn't be sacked but if he does leave then it's not the end of the world" camp.

 

 

Things have improved and moved on since last December. I don’t think people just look at the league position, people look at the performances, attitude of the players, external circumstances, transfer window, new signings, past appointments of SL… I think assuming that people are fickle is a bit shortsighted and reductive. 
 

[DaveInSA]

I think for me it's about continuity and what we want to achieve as a club.

Lansdown, for all his billions has taken us literally nowhere in footballing terms over his tenure. 

Granted, we have a nice ground and some great facilities in the HPC. But TBC I don't care much for shiny toys, I'd like a bit of ambition and nous on the footballing side of things. Which Lansdown doesn't really have. He flip flops about all the ****ing time. This, and the lack of accountability to him by board and footballing staff makes the whole thing absolutely laughable.

I've not liked how SL manages the footballing side for ages. It's tinpot and shambolic. He doesn't communicate. In my judgement he doesn't like being challenged, has a massive ego which needs to be massaged and it's time to go.

[Pezo]

I don't want people sacked for the sake of it but I voted to sack and now think he should have a 2 year extension.

I voted to sack because we were not competitive in the league against the vast majority of sides and I had my target at the half way point as having to be above 18th - we weren't so I stuck to my original target and decided that he should be sacked. I'm happy that we didn't sack him.

This season my target is above 16th by the half way point. We do look competitive. I have no reason to want him to be sacked.

I don't let an individual result dictate if he should stay or not I judge it over 1/2 a season.

[Major Isewater]

What NP has done is overhaul completely the culture at the club. People will run through brick walls for the cause whereas before… 

[The Swan and Cemetery]

6 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Things have improved and moved on since last December. I don’t think people just look at the league position, people look at the performances, attitude of the players, external circumstances, transfer window, new signings, past appointments of SL… I think assuming that people are fickle is a bit shortsighted and reductive. 
 

Think the OP is saying if basing only on league position that would be a bit fickle? Given we’re 4 points above 18th and 2 points above 15th, think league position alone would be an odd rationale for the swing in sentiment.

From a supporters perspective think a) people are seeing the fruits of culture change and like seeing a team that works hard and to the end (however much that should be a given) and b) are frustrated by the lack of support in the transfer window, particularly given NP has maintained (improved vs the latter stages of LJ and all of DH reigns) our position, with a vastly smaller and less expensive squad. 

Suspect NP is more frustrated by the snippy/passive aggressive comments from the hierarchy about expectations, inc comparisons to the tactical genius Mark Robins. Think he’s more comfortable than the supporters to operate on a very tight budget, but (quite rightly) expects to be recognised for doing so. 

In terms of why we’d want NP continuing if not getting on with the doves from above, think NP without support is still likely to deliver more success than a supported innovative young manager (/sycophant), which is surely what we’d get. Whether NP fancies continuing is a different matter, albeit with supporters on his side, he may see it as an intriguing battle of wills. 

[Baldyman]

Personally I’m dreading tomorrow ! Have a horrible feeling we’re going to do the unthinkable and pull the trigger based on “ irreconcilable differences” rather than anything on the pitch . No inside knowledge , just a gut feeling after Nige’s blast in their direction yesterday !