A more rational thread

[Red-Robbo]

7 minutes ago, Bris Red said:

Totality agree. I have woken up actually more angry today than anything. The statement from the boy saying our aim is promotion? Its the taking us fans for complete and utter idiots that is infuriating.

 

I think I'm more in despair than angry: the chance of building something; finally progressing - thrown away because of personality clashes and/or an utter lack of understanding of football.

I won't boycott the club. I've been here through shit chairmen, shit managers, shit players, in the past. They are just custodians. People like me, and most of us in this forum, we are the club.

I really can't wait for the Lansdowns to go though. I'm not going to say evrything they have done is bad - but in terms of progression, they are a definite drag on the club. 

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

But in that time hull have had owners who have tried desperately to change the name of the club and now owned by some faceless investment fund. Is it a molecule of success at any cost?

real investment is coming from hedge funds, despot regimes and the Americans - I don’t want this at my club 

 

 

 

It's Steve's club not yours, remember that.

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, Henry said:

Just because someone has a strong view and they’re upset/angry, doesn’t mean they are irrational 

It doesn’t mean that’s the case, sure. But there were more than a few instances yesterday where that was the case! 

[Clutton Caveman]

1 hour ago, Fjmcity said:

Appreciate this thread as long as it stays within the boundaries of your title!

as with everything the truth always lies somewhere in the middle and people have to understand that you will never fully know the truth at each end of the spectrum to truly know that middle part

things we know

1. lansdown silence has been poor, to be MIA and only break cover to sack him feels wrong although find me a football club where the upper management is front and centre and you show me a badly run football club

2. Nige is combative - this is well known and at the end of the day this is a business. No matter how disgruntled you are you mouth off publicly against your boss, it’s not ending well. Chances are Pearson knew the situation, but was impatient and concerned for his own employment so went to the press.

3. David Rennie going too. Did the board have concerns on player management from treatment room to management which could have contributed to the injury crisis?

4. Pearson has done a good job with what he’s been given. But aren’t there still other clubs doing more on less? There is no real footballing culture at city, we are determined and dig in but my god, ask yourself - why does every goal we score feel like a forcep delivery of a 15ib baby? Couldn’t someone else maybe do better?

5. Scott money - clubs need to run sustainably, last time we spaffed transfer money we ended up in this position where we have to retain the Scott/semenyo money. Granted that was through letting Ashton loose with the finances and that is on the lansdowns but wouldn’t you rather they learnt from that?

6. this forum presents a microcosm of our fan base, maybe many who identify with nige and feel him hard done by. But don’t think for a moment he is thinking of us, it’s a job. Where was the support for him before? I go home and away and can’t remember hearing a chant for him. This is because he is functional, there is no impetus behind the team because we don’t play in a way that offers that. We are established championship, not underdogs and we need a little more football to believe in and get excited by.

Im curious to see what happens next, what I fear is the lansdowns have got themselves in a position where they can no longer do right for doing wrong and could be hounded out and it will be out of the frying pan into the fire..

 

 

I don't think they need any hounding. If they could get a decent bid for the mess that is Bristol Sport they would sail off to Guernsey and Bermuda with a huge sense of relief and a big smile on their face

[Fjmcity]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

It's Steve's club not yours, remember that.

and the sky is blue. it’s got to be someone’s unless we are fan owned so not sure what the point is.

my point is I’m not going to support selling the clubs soul for one season in the premier league.

you may argue the club is currently souless as it is, but I am fairly certain it could be a lot lot worse

[Red Exile]

5 minutes ago, Fjmcity said:

But in that time hull have had owners who have tried desperately to change the name of the club and now owned by some faceless investment fund. Is it a molecule of success at any cost?

real investment is coming from hedge funds, despot regimes and the Americans - I don’t want this at my club 

 

 

 

But we’re owned by a faceless family living in tax exile. The head of which has had 20 years, achieved almost nothing of footballing note and has clearly lost interest. We’re hostages to a huge ego. Let go! 

…to be honest I really don’t care what the fearful Lansdown loyalists think any more. You’ve had your way and will doubtless continue to have it until the moment Steve finally sells up. Enjoy the mediocrity!

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Good discussion from the OP

I don't get the absolute kneejerk.

We've had plenty of managers who've mopped up others messes and then others have kicked on.

I was going to start a thread about NP  best games as in where we were epic. Preston Away a few seasons back and Man City last season stick.

However on pitch as a few have mentioned it wasn't brilliant in the main ( only seen highlights this season)

In terms of progress and wanting a not cushy club we have that on an off the field, players who aren't afraid to step up and ruthlessness up high which many have criticized the higher ups for before for being too nice.

Can't have it both ways 

Stripped away from all of the emotions. We had a manager who achieved nothing of note on the field broadly speaking but did lots for the culture and laid foundations (ala Leicester)

Sometimes the person who does the dirty work, isn't the one to move a team forward and absolutely not getting the anger especially around the mediocrity on the field .

The signs have been there for ages, going from last December's ( I think) shocking run 

See where the next manager, coach takes us as the journey evolves.

 

Hang on, we've improved year on year broadly speaking while cutting the cost base- for which Gould also was a key part and while NP is the bigger loss, Gould was another.

The injury list is a concern but NP should have had the chance to build some good work, several million more this summer across wages, fees etc. That little more depth means a greater ability to rotate, perhaps less risk of burnout.

It is plausible someone else will benefit from his good work but it really should be him.

[Numero Uno]

1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

But we’re owned by a faceless family living in tax exile. The head of which has had 20 years, achieved almost nothing of footballing note and has clearly lost interest. We’re hostages to a huge ego. Let go! 

…to be honest I really don’t care what the fearful Lansdown loyalists think any more. You’ve had your way and will doubtless continue to have it until the moment Steve finally sells up. Enjoy the mediocrity!

Exactly. You used to get your head bitten off if you went anywhere near the Lansdown family with criticism. Shame it's taken over 20 years of mediocrity and a club that literally cannot be sold for us all to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Point of accuracy, Hull are owned by the Turkish Simon Cowell (Acun Ilicali) not a faceless investment fund.

Some of his public pronouncements are interesting and if they don't go up in the next 18 months..

Allam family did try to change name yeah and that was when things went South however they initially saved them from bankruptcy and handed them on in a solid state.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Clutton Caveman]

46 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Exactly this… the board think the current squad should be good enough for promotion so let’s see who the have in mind to come in now and better lead / inspire the players.. as a minimum it ought to be someone has who has at least been a proven number 2 at an established PL club or someone who has already earned credibility by taking a team up to the prem. We know it won’t be though, it’ll be the best for the less they can get..

The crazy thing is.... for all of our anger and disgust, if 8 weeks from now we have a new manager and are winning with a more entertaining brand of football, all of this will be forgotten but nobody will say "the ownership got it right" This is not a forecast but more of an observation of the fickle nature of football supporters.

[Red Exile]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Point of accuracy, Hull are owned by the Turkish Simon Cowell not a faceless investment fund.

Allam family did try to change name yeah and that was when things went South however they initially saved them from bankruptcy and handed them on in a solid state.

Indeed. I’m not at all sure that I buy the current ownership or that it will end well…but it is certainly entertaining! My in-laws aren’t fearful. More inclined to gently taunt me for our crapness!

[IAmNick]

17 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Good discussion from the OP

I don't get the absolute kneejerk.

We've had plenty of managers who've mopped up others messes and then others have kicked on.

I was going to start a thread about NP  best games as in where we were epic. Preston Away a few seasons back and Man City last season stick.

However on pitch as a few have mentioned it wasn't brilliant in the main ( only seen highlights this season)

In terms of progress and wanting a not cushy club we have that on an off the field, players who aren't afraid to step up and ruthlessness up high which many have criticized the higher ups for before for being too nice.

Can't have it both ways 

Stripped away from all of the emotions. We had a manager who achieved nothing of note on the field broadly speaking but did lots for the culture and laid foundations (ala Leicester)

Sometimes the person who does the dirty work, isn't the one to move a team forward and absolutely not getting the anger especially around the mediocrity on the field .

The signs have been there for ages, going from last December's ( I think) shocking run 

See where the next manager, coach takes us as the journey evolves.

 

That "year on year improvement with a positive net spend" thing Lee got seems to have gone huh!

I'm also interested in who has mopped up messes for others to then kick on - the two in my mind recently, Gary and Cotts, both did the mopping up and kicking on themselves imo.

In my experience we usually get the club in a reasonable position, only to make a couple of ultimately poor appointments and undo it all.

I'm struggling to think of a single Championship appointment we've made which has left the club in a better position than that found it apart from Pearson - seriously. Who??

Edited October 30, 2023 by IAmNick

[Atticus]

There isn't a chance in hell we will make the right appointment. 

Steve Lansdown cannot stand having somebody in charge of team affairs that's in control. History has repeatedly shown this.

We will always be going nowhere fast while he owns the club. His ego is to big and to fragile to allow this.

 

But. What I do expect now. Is the same farcical harsh remit given to our next manager that Pearson was given. Ie top 6. Regardless of circumstances.

Lansdown has laid down the marker now. 

This will show if what's happened now is purely a football decision or not....funnily enough, I suspect its not. 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Atticus

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Indeed. I’m not at all sure that I buy the current ownership or that it will end well…but it is certainly entertaining! My in-laws aren’t fearful. More inclined to gently taunt me for our crapness!

He definitely seems entertaining! Could go great, could implode. I guess if they go up this season or next at worst it'll pay off but if not...?

I heard an interview on Talksport with him last year.

Highlights included his claim that he'd trebled the wage bill, his shock that England the home of fairness restricted expenditure in a League of Parachute Payments and that he was happy to throw money away as he remembers being poor!!

He is giving it a good go, having inherited a solid if unspectacular base.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Fjmcity]

6 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

But we’re owned by a faceless family living in tax exile. The head of which has had 20 years, achieved almost nothing of footballing note and has clearly lost interest. We’re hostages to a huge ego. Let go! 

…to be honest I really don’t care what the fearful Lansdown loyalists think any more. You’ve had your way and will doubtless continue to have it until the moment Steve finally sells up. Enjoy the mediocrity!

I’m no loyalist, and don’t see why it has to be one camp or the other. As I said in my original post there is a middle ground here which is where the truth will be. Public discourse on everything these days has to be for or against and it’s very draining.

could the lansdowns have done better? Yes 100% but there’s no manual to running a football club, there are a million and one variables that factor into it when dealing with what is ultimately how 11 men play on a Saturday. and the alternatives just don’t look very appealing. People talk about soul and the old ways, what a club means - the lansdowns aren’t bringing this but none of the alternatives will either and they might bring a hell of a lot more baggage with them too! Debt leveraging, sports washing, Americanisation, multi club ownership, gambling - it’s a what’s what of shite, and for what? A season in the premier league? Lansdowns may not be perfect but they are one appointment away from this all going away and I think they NEED to do better but the alternatives just look horrible.

football is hard. There are 92 other clubs trying to do exactly the same as us and who is really “getting it right” maybe 10 of them?? 

 

 

 

[Fjmcity]

7 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

The crazy thing is.... for all of our anger and disgust, if 8 weeks from now we have a new manager and are winning with a more entertaining brand of football, all of this will be forgotten but nobody will say "the ownership got it right" This is not a forecast but more of an observation of the fickle nature of football supporters.

So true.

[Kimpton]

Very harshly treated. Brutal from board put it this way they need to get it right or they are in trouble.

[Fjmcity]

5 minutes ago, Kimpton said:

Very harshly treated. Brutal from board put it this way they need to get it right or they are in trouble.

Probably the best 2 line summation we’ve had!  

[Fuber]

2 hours ago, Jeez said:

None whatsoever - more a case of luck than judgement. 

I sense you’re too dug in to accept there were games where Pearson didn’t get it right.

If he always got it 'right' he wouldn't be managing at this level.

[red panda]

Thanks for starting a slightly more nuanced discussion.  I like NP and really wanted him to succeed.  And yes there have been financial constraints and injuries.  But I just can't shake off the feeling that progress was pretty slow and there were too many times when the team seemed like less than the sum of its parts.  Was 14th last season really a good outcome given the players we had?  So I'm sad to see him go, but perhaps something needed to change for us to kick on??

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Broadly we've won 15 games a season under NP.

19,17,14th despite points weirdness 

Season 4 under Nige and after a 1/3rd of a season with 5 wins we're vaguely on course for same again 

Off pitch, no doubt been it's what's been needed.

On pitch not so much, looking at it in cold light of day 

We can argue black is blue and green is red til cows come home, but a Nige spend is not going to happen.

As I said,sometimes the guy who does the dirty work isn't the one who reaps the benefits 

Improved position each time, would have to check but statistics broadly improving each time, Cup run in Year 2 in both, Lincoln the big disappointment there, baseline performances improving each time while having less to work with in terms of resources each time.

He's never been on a level playing field here...firstly due to what he inherited, then due to the sudden swings in strategy post Scott sale.

"We can argue black is blue and green is red til cows come home, but a Nige spend is not going to happen."

So long as his successors have to work under the same constraints for a year or longer then it'll be a fairish comparison. Otherwise meaningless.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Street red]

2 hours ago, Jeez said:

None whatsoever - more a case of luck than judgement. 

I sense you’re too dug in to accept there were games where Pearson didn’t get it right.

If people from the outside can see Nige was building something and he was then I've no confidence in our owners at all. Time and time again this keeps happening but this time you can't put into words how pathetic this decision was, And also losing two members of backroom staff that have to be replaced and maybe one more soon. Nobody can defend this no faith at all in future appointments and decision making.

[FNQ]

13 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

The crazy thing is.... for all of our anger and disgust, if 8 weeks from now we have a new manager and are winning with a more entertaining brand of football, all of this will be forgotten but nobody will say "the ownership got it right" This is not a forecast but more of an observation of the fickle nature of football supporters.

Perhaps and I know that my glass is not half full it’s empty.. but to be honest I’m a bit worried where we’ll be in 8 weeks from now. It’s hard to imagine a new head coach (we won’t be allowed to have a manager)coming in with such a wealth of experience and new ideas being able to make such a quantum change with our current squad in the short term. In fact I think that the new guy will do a bloody good job in the weeks ahead if he can convince Matty James and Andy King that they’re no longer injured..

[BrizzleRed]

14 minutes ago, red panda said:

Thanks for starting a slightly more nuanced discussion.  I like NP and really wanted him to succeed.  And yes there have been financial constraints and injuries.  But I just can't shake off the feeling that progress was pretty slow and there were too many times when the team seemed like less than the sum of its parts.  Was 14th last season really a good outcome given the players we had?  So I'm sad to see him go, but perhaps something needed to change for us to kick on??

It was very slow under Alan Dicks and look where that ended up!

Nobody would be allowed that amount of time these days, but we were definitely making slow progress under NP.  The very least he deserved was to have time to get his sqaud back to fitness and then see what he could do with it.

Shocking decision, whichever way you look at it and imho, the ‘change we need’ is right at fhe top!

[lenred]

11 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I've just said 19th 17th 14th. We finished higher in some seasons with less points.. hence points weirdness.

"He's never had a level playing field" 

"So long as his successors etc"

Are hot air and hurt.

I'm sorry that this has pissed you off as it has others. However some of the hyperbole at the moment is off the scale .

We've sacked a manager, life moves on. See where we go next.

Clueless as ever then.  Nothing changes.  

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

I believe they made the right choice of manager in NP, but for the wrong reasons.  

Rather than appointing him for the long-tern benefit of the club, they viewed it as short-term to drag us out of the FFP hole they’d dug for us.  

I liken it to someone hating medicine, but knowing they needed to take it to get better, so just hold their nose and swallow.  We have now cleared the FFP issue and the Lansdowns couldn’t wait to dump someone they clearly didn’t want at the club, but tolerated to get the job done.

For me, the Lansdown’s latest actions have removed any hope I had that they had the Club’s best interests at heart and I’m done with them.

Totally agree with you re Richard Gould and he was massive in the FFP issue and a huge loss when he went.  NP was still the person who managed to protect our Championship status through all the player cuts and upheaval though.

Spot on.

They were desperate after the shambles of Holden so held their nose & appointed a leader.

They didn’t like him though & once he started telling our idiot chairman where it was going wrong they didn’t like the message so set him up to fail.

They are the constant behind our underachievement, it is all on them now.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Fjmcity said:

But in that time hull have had owners who have tried desperately to change the name of the club and now owned by some faceless investment fund. Is it a molecule of success at any cost?

real investment is coming from hedge funds, despot regimes and the Americans - I don’t want this at my club 

 

 

 

As long as they’re not Saudis or Chinese, bring it on.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

14 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think I'm more in despair than angry: the chance of building something; finally progressing - thrown away because of personality clashes and/or an utter lack of understanding of football.

I won't boycott the club. I've been here through shit chairmen, shit managers, shit players, in the past. They are just custodians. People like me, and most of us in this forum, we are the club.

I really can't wait for the Lansdowns to go though. I'm not going to say evrything they have done is bad - but in terms of progression, they are a definite drag on the club. 

A few months back you posted something that struck a chord with me.

You were walking back from the Gate after another disappointing home display and you overheard two chaps discussing why they bothered to go to matches and I believe you questioned same. You mention years of crap with or without SL.

@ChippenhamRedmade some points a couple of weeks back ( 'not putting out the bunting')which were home truths to any BCFC fan in that the bad times far outweigh any good times- in fact bad times are the norm and the football club was a bit "meh". Some idiot told him to to go support the gas. To me, it was like reading my own thoughts back.

I'm not in the camp that we were on the cusp of something special or a promotion but I have seen a team prepared to fight for each other and NP has to be responsible for that alone and ,for me, that was worth watching win or lose. Yet it could equally could have  been just another false dawn and fizzled out. No one will ever know for sure but we'll talk about it forever or until we win something.

I had a few posts with @Alessandro a week back about no longer getting too bothered about results either way. The idea of a boycott because of not having a certain manager or having a certain owner is pointless imo. For many, including on here, they will just continue not going because that's what they do.

I'm with you- I'll keep going. I only ever boo the ref or opposition players but I don't have any real expectations of a golden era of Premiership football around the corner.

Awful.

[Mr Popodopolous]

26 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

I've just said 19th 17th 14th. We finished higher in some seasons with less points.. hence points weirdness.

"He's never had a level playing field" 

"So long as his successors etc"

Are hot air and hurt.

I'm sorry that this has pissed you off as it has others. However some of the hyperbole at the moment is off the scale .

We've sacked a manager, life moves on. See where we go next.

I see your point a bit better now, yea having re-read and seen the explanation.

It is totally true, if Rowett e.g. or Eustace or whoever gets a healthy budget in January and beyond, some of that nest egg then that is fairly terrible. I'd sooner trust NP with it for a start, let alone that his strong work had helped to create it in the first place.

By allegedly offering free agents that is a moving of the goal posts. Perhaps some within that free agent budget range should be offered, let's see what the successor can do under the same conditions.

[BrizzleRed]

9 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Spot on.

They were desperate after the shambles of Holden so held their nose & appointed a leader.

They didn’t like him though & once he started telling our idiot chairman where it was going wrong they didn’t like the message so set him up to fail.

They are the constant behind our underachievement, it is all on them now.

Absolutely!!!

I appreciate the concerns of the dwindling ‘careful what you wish for brigade’.  That said, after this latest debacle, it amazes me how anyone can still think that what we have now is preferable to a change of ownership.

It feels to me like the Landowns are slowly strangling the life out of this club.