I used to be a banker - the owner’s plan

[BigAl&Toby]

I’ve posted many times about my views for an individual’s motives for investing in what was once our club. I’ve been mocked by many each time I’ve done so.

I’ve mulled over posting and drafted and redrafted a post many times. After the most recent debacle I think it’s time…..

As the title says, I used to be a banker - cue for the nay sayers to change the B to a W……

In my time as a banker I met many of the great and good.  I met Lords and Ladies, a Major or two, and many, many businesses - large and small.

I also met others like me - similar bankers - who had met other actual and potential customers. One banker that I knew well had several meetings with someone who was touting his new business around the market.

The conversation went along the lines of not being able to help - banks were sensitive to providing any sort of facility to football clubs then. Believe it or not banks felt they had a reputation to uphold then and if in the future they needed to withdraw support then they might suffer a reputational risk - imagine that!

Anyway the offer from the successful businessman was politely declined. But as is often the way a conversation ensued. Largely about why said successful businessman was involved in a football club in the first place.

The conversation was detailed and far reaching. It was suggested that the reason for his involvement was less about football, and as much about what could come from that.

There was a plan. A plan that could provide a facility to group a number of similar, related activities under one roof. To develop that facility to extend beyond just sport.

In doing so the investment would be de-risked. It wouldn’t be reliant upon just one source of fan or income.

The plan also involved making sure that all aspects of that eventual entity would be under the control of just one man. Holding companies would be established and registered such that fan or public scrutiny would be almost impossible.

There was even talk that other property would be acquired to further improve the successful businessman’s own personal position.

That must’ve been the best part of 20 years ago. Some might say it’s bollocks and hearsay. Some might say that despite that the football club is in a better position now than it was then.

Some might even say that they do feel proud - remember that? Making Bristol proud……

All successful businessmen have plans. Several of them. Just in case one doesn’t work out.

Very few successful businessmen invest in a business without first knowing what their exit will be. Very few successful businessmen achieve great wealth simply from doing what they do.

Great wealth is usually achieved through identifying your exit before you get your chequebook out. An acquisition or trade sale. Or private equity. 

Great wealth can also be achieved through the acquisition of property. As one wise man once said to me “they ain’t making any more”……

Meanwhile we are where we are. In the midst of another almighty shit show. Decisions are made that don’t seem to make sense or stand up to consistency or scrutiny.

We lurch from one almighty mess to another. If it wasn’t so desperate, or if it was going on in Horfield, we’d all be laughing…….

 

[Port Said Red]

Yep. Definitely worth a new thread. 

[Cidre Monita]

15 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

Yep. Definitely worth a new thread. 

Oh yawn. What’s the matter does the truth hurt? Interesting stuff from Big Al and sounds about right to me. It’s never been about the football for SL just using the club as a convenient vehicle to increase his wealth. He has sabotaged any decent manager’s attempts to get us to the PL over the past decade or so. We as City fans need to unite to get these charlatans out of OUR club. 

[Port Said Red]

3 minutes ago, Cidre Monita said:

Oh yawn. What’s the matter does the truth hurt? Interesting stuff from Big Al and sounds about right to me. It’s never been about the football for SL just using the club as a convenient vehicle to increase his wealth. He has sabotaged any decent manager’s attempts to get us to the PL over the past decade or so. We as City fans need to unite to get these charlatans out of OUR club. 

**** you this OTIB not North Korea. My point could have been added to any number of the other threads. 

[Cidre Monita]

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

**** you this OTIB not North Korea. My point could have been added to any number of the other threads. 

So it’s ok for you to have an opinion but not BA? I appreciate someone with critical thinking skills and an analysis of the likely motives of said successful ‘business man’. We need more debate on this subject not closing down of it. And by the way potty mouth North Korea are probably being more transparent at this moment in time!! 

[BigAl&Toby]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

Yep. Definitely worth a new thread. 

Glad you appreciated it. Have you anything meaningful to add or that would contradict any of what I’ve set out?

As I said. A banker….

[BCFCGav]

Now now gents. You both have a fair point. The OP has interesting and unique insight given their previous career, but on the other hand we do have a vast number of threads on SL's intentions. 

I think this is just going to be one of those weeks OTIB is a bit crazy. I'm certainly looking forward to it settling down, it's hard to keep up at the mo!

[Rocky]

Can’t be f*cked reading all that 

[Topper 123]

2 hours ago, Cidre Monita said:

Oh yawn. What’s the matter does the truth hurt? Interesting stuff from Big Al and sounds about right to me. It’s never been about the football for SL just using the club as a convenient vehicle to increase his wealth. He has sabotaged any decent manager’s attempts to get us to the PL over the past decade or so. We as City fans need to unite to get these charlatans out of OUR club. 

So he walks away leaving us in 30 mill debt there abouts and no owners GREAT who then keeps us afloat , we got no buyers that I know of - do you ? It’s a very expensive buisness championship football 

[richwwtk]

53 minutes ago, BigAl&Toby said:

Glad you appreciated it. Have you anything meaningful to add or that would contradict any of what I’ve set out?

As I said. A banker….

Your story seems to have nothing at all to do with having been a banker yourself, more a story that was told to you by someone who was a banker.

As I read it, the story is SL asked a bank for money to launch Bristol Sport - he was refused.

SL then told said bank all about his nefarious plans which were to diversify by bringing more sports under the BS umbrella and therefore spread any risk as well as including a bit about making ownership shady (something that probably won't fool anyone who knows what they are looking at) - why would he do that?

I really am struggling to see how this paints SL in a bad light, god knows there's enough other stuff going round at the moment to do that.

[Red-Robbo]

TBH I have no problem with Lansdown wanting to eventually make money out of Bristol Sport:  for most owners that's the dream. 

It's just if he thinks he can do that while we're a mediocre Championship side, he's off his rocker.  

[Cidre Monita]

1 hour ago, Topper 123 said:

So he walks away leaving us in 30 mill debt there abouts and no owners GREAT who then keeps us afloat , we got no buyers that I know of - do you ? It’s a very expensive buisness championship football 

He’s not going to walk away without selling the club is he? There has been no transparency coming from SL so we don’t know anything about potential buyers although he mentioned he had been in talks with a 3rd party earlier in the year but no updates on this? BTW football may be an expensive business but no one has held a gun to his head to buy or continue ownership of the club. Like others I suspect he is asking too much for the club which is not helped by the entangled web which is Bristol Sport. My fear is that the status quo will continue for the foreseeable which I think is reinforced by the sacking of NP. Why would SL get rid of him if he wasn’t thinking more long term? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Cidre Monita said:

He’s not going to walk away without selling the club is he? There has been no transparency coming from SL so we don’t know anything about potential buyers although he mentioned he had been in talks with a 3rd party earlier in the year but no updates on this? BTW football may be an expensive business but no one has held a gun to his head to buy or continue ownership of the club. Like others I suspect he is asking too much for the club which is not helped by the entangled web which is Bristol Sport. My fear is that the status quo will continue for the foreseeable which I think is reinforced by the sacking of NP. Why would SL get rid of him if he wasn’t thinking more long term? 

There is a third option, which maybe in progress right now.

Until he can find a buyer, he will intend to run us on a cash breakeven or minimal input basis.

Depressing for us, but sane from a business perspective. Leaves a cleanish slate for a new owner too.

[spudski]

4 hours ago, BigAl&Toby said:

 

All successful businessmen have plans. Several of them. Just in case one doesn’t work out.

Very few successful businessmen invest in a business without first knowing what their exit will be. Very few successful businessmen achieve great wealth simply from doing what they do.

Great wealth is usually achieved through identifying your exit before you get your chequebook out. An acquisition or trade sale. Or private equity. 

Meanwhile we are where we are. In the midst of another almighty shit show. Decisions are made that don’t seem to make sense or stand up to consistency or scrutiny.

We lurch from one almighty mess to another. If it wasn’t so desperate, or if it was going on in Horfield, we’d all be laughing…….

 

This bit sounds like the Government and Brexit

[Merrick's Marvels]

53 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

TBH I have no problem with Lansdown wanting to eventually make money out of Bristol Sport:  for most owners that's the dream. 

It's just if he thinks he can do that while we're a mediocre Championship side, he's off his rocker.  

Indeed. I think he knows we need to be in the Premier League before he can wash his hands of us. 

Hence dismissing Pearson, as progress towards promotion was deemed "too slow" - despite all the well documented constraints he was working under.

As so often, the owner's logic doesn't take long to unravel because Pearson's riposte to progress being "too slow" would be - well what do you expect, if you keep selling my best players and not replacing them, at the same time imposing a wage cap and also expecting me to play untried kids straight out of academy football? What other club has ever been promoted with a team of mostly kids and players bought from League 1, mate? 

And thus Guernsey's logic is reduced to rubble.  

[Oh Louie louie]

My favourite request from a Bank manager, rik mayall in the young ones for those old enough to remember, and there was more chance of him getting a loan, 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, richwwtk said:

Your story seems to have nothing at all to do with having been a banker yourself, more a story that was told to you by someone who was a banker.

As I read it, the story is SL asked a bank for money to launch Bristol Sport - he was refused.

SL then told said bank all about his nefarious plans which were to diversify by bringing more sports under the BS umbrella and therefore spread any risk as well as including a bit about making ownership shady (something that probably won't fool anyone who knows what they are looking at) - why would he do that?

I really am struggling to see how this paints SL in a bad light, god knows there's enough other stuff going round at the moment to do that.

I think what is being described here is a view that - getting into Bristol City Football allowed him opportunities to diversify into other “things” that he might not have been able to without.

For example, would he have been able to get Longmoor without The Sporting Quarter?  Not saying that’s dodgy, because I know some will jump on me for suggesting it, but at its most cynical it’s “give and take” (with the planners) to “make”.

@BigAl&Toby am I reading it right?

[Jan Window]

June 4, 2018

What is your long-term ambition for Bristol Sport?

SL: Good question because it’s evolving. There’s a lot of moving parts to it, primarily I think it’s marketing and media related and therefore commercially related. It’s focusing on making sure the clubs that we’re involved with make the best out of what they got. Whether that’s improving the brand, the commercial opportunities or their community infiltration.

[numbeast]

I don't blame him for having an exit strategy nor would I blame him from making a few quid. But surely by backing a manager with NP's CV it could have brought about that windfall. How much would the club be worth if we did achieve promotion? A damn sight more than it's worth now. But given the plan that's been laid out I'd say its highly unlikely we will see Premier League football any time soon.

Steve Landsdown continues to be the architect of his own failure regarding BCFC, but a clash of personalities once more set the club back despite Pearson delivering most of the points made by Tinnion. They say you must "speculate to accumulate" and who knows where we be had SL given Nige a budget once Alex Scott was sold. 

[richwwtk]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think what is being described here is a view that - getting into Bristol City Football allowed him opportunities to diversify into other “things” that he might not have been able to without.

For example, would he have been able to get Longmoor without The Sporting Quarter?  Not saying that’s dodgy, because I know some will jump on me for suggesting it, but at its most cynical it’s “give and take” (with the planners) to “make”.

@BigAl&Toby am I reading it right?

I think that would all come down to whether he got involved in the first place with a view to using BCFC as a vehicle to make money out of things such as Longmoor by creating Bristol Sport. I'm not convinced there was ever that kind of plan around it.

I met and spoke to him and Maggie a few times around 2002 just after he had become a director and he told me 100% that the only reason he got involved then was because Jon was a fan and he was using the corporate facilities etc. which led to somebody at the club asking him to invest which he did.

The Bristol Sport idea was something that evolved afterwards, and I still believe he has done it for the right reasons, and not to cynically exploit the club as Big Al seems to imply.

I would say that he is not going about things the way that most people agree with, that is obvious, but I really do think that he is doing things because he believes it's for the good of the club. I.e. You can question his methods but not his intentions.

[cityal]

Something I am finidng hard to reconcile: The SL only wants a "yes man" narrative, and SL's obvious success as a buisnessman.

It is almost inconceivable that he was an instrumental part of building a multi billion pound business WITHOUT employing at least a few people that he didn't see eye-to-eye with, or a few people in areas in which he himself had no skills.

Just to be clear the yes man argument on the face of it appears strong (hence me being conflicted). but I do wonder if there is something more to this...

Edited November 1, 2023 by cityal

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, cityal said:

Something I am finidng hard to reconcile: The SL only wants a "yes man" narrative, and SL's obvious success as a buisnessman.

It is almost inconceivable that he was an instrumental part of building a multi billion pound business WITHOUT employing at least a few people that he didn't see eye-to-eye with, or a few people in areas in which he himself had no skills.

Just to be clear the yes man argument on the face of it appears strong (hence me being conflicted). but I do wonder if there is something more to this...

There is nothing more to it. 

As I have said before, the words 'Hargreaves' and 'Coat Tails' springs to mind 

[Sir Geoff]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There is a third option, which maybe in progress right now.

Until he can find a buyer, he will intend to run us on a cash breakeven or minimal input basis.

Depressing for us, but sane from a business perspective. Leaves a cleanish slate for a new owner too.

In that case we will soon be a League one club and worth an awful lot less, particularly with only small (£1million) annual solidarity payments.

[BigAl&Toby]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I think what is being described here is a view that - getting into Bristol City Football allowed him opportunities to diversify into other “things” that he might not have been able to without.

For example, would he have been able to get Longmoor without The Sporting Quarter?  Not saying that’s dodgy, because I know some will jump on me for suggesting it, but at its most cynical it’s “give and take” (with the planners) to “make”.

@BigAl&Toby am I reading it right?

Spot on. I think!

[Davefevs]

43 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

In that case we will soon be a League one club and worth an awful lot less, particularly with only small (£1million) annual solidarity payments.

This is yet another model, the Bristol Rovers model.  You eventually end up in the NatLg.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

In that case we will soon be a League one club and worth an awful lot less, particularly with only small (£1million) annual solidarity payments.

I mean it's hard to say, yes I agree it is a potential direction of travel but these new financial regulations if they come in could change matters drastically.

If football wages, amortisation and agents fees are capped at 70% of turnover plus transfer profits e.g. then this will force a lot of Championship clubs to look at the business model.

If it comes to pass then wages will be somewhat pushed down.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[IdliketoRogerMoore]

I used to be a milkman some might think that this a jovial unimportant job but somebody’s got to do it!

I load up my float early in the morning and I’d go off on my round and I’d meet some very influential people on my round jogging and what not before work.
 

They’d share with me tells from from their day in the office putting together important business deals and I tell them how I changed over empty milk bottles for full ones (I have to admit they were amazed and how proficiently I did my job.) 

Anyway I started to realize that making a difference in your community is all these business types wanted as well as finding new ways to put weekly visits to ladies of the night on the business credit cards, they want to leave a legacy. 

I still deliver milk these days although demand is not what it was and my round has changed oh and I had a sex change like I said I used to be a milkman!