An outsiders views on Bristol City’s strategies , and the appointment of Liam Manning

[Sir Geoff]

18 minutes ago, Cristored said:

Exactly this, there are a number of clubs that I know have a long term interest in Manning, he was part of succession planning for clubs at the top of this division, another reason the club deserve credit for going early while he was available. 

Well done, you read the Ipswich fans post on the LM Manager thread. No actual knowledge of this, I guess.

[transfer reader]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The fact I'd never heard of Lommel until a few days ago speaks volumes, hence why I easily forgot about it when posting. 

To appease you I'll change it to only head coach role in England  

But the point still stands, if we heavily backed him in the Jan window and we do well and he ***** off in March to a Luton or Bournemouth then we'd be pissed off too.

But he'd not been sacked by Oxford either, so it's still not correct.

 

Why are you so fixated on the end of his time at MK Dons?

Especially as you seem to not want to give credit to him for where he got them the previous season, before they sold all their best players...

[red panda]

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The fact I'd never heard of Lommel until a few days ago speaks volumes, hence why I easily forgot about it when posting. 

To appease you I'll change it to only head coach role in England  

But the point still stands, if we heavily backed him in the Jan window and we do well and he ***** off in March to a Luton or Bournemouth then we'd be pissed off too.

Indeed

[Harry]

29 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Pulis to Pompey!

Ha ha. You missed the important words “successful enough to poach”. 
Pulis leaving was a bloody relief!! 

[Rocky]

might have been posted elsewhere already but this is a long tweet on Manning. Click show more for the rest! 

[Major Isewater]

33 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Pulis to Pompey!

One of the happiest days of my football supporting life. 

[Spud21]

42 minutes ago, Harry said:

Most managers don’t last more than 15 months anyway. 
I just wish that one day we’d have a manager successful enough for other clubs to poach. 
Last one was Joe Jordan in 1990!!! 
 

If Manning does a superb job here and Bournemouth want him in 12 months I’d not like it but wouldn’t be bitter. 

Dunno, Pulis was "poached" by Portsmouth wasn't he.

 

Well that will teach me for not finishing the thread before quoting ffs. 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Spud21

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Rocky said:

might have been posted elsewhere already but this is a long tweet on Manning. Click show more for the rest! 

Really enjoyed reading that. Very well written and balanced.

[Sleepy1968]

49 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Pulis to Pompey!

What a relief. I'm almost convinced we got compo as well.

[rednotblue]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Saw that earlier. Oxfords reaction has been ******* odd tbh. As far as I’m aware he’s never said he’d never leave, never said he wants to be there forever.
 

We are a bigger club with much higher expectations, much bigger salary for him, better squad, better facilities, much higher average attendance. That’s without red specs on, just pure facts. 
 

The talk of them “picking him up from the scrap heap” is laughable as well. One of the most highly thought of coaches in England. Not some down and outer journeyman coach that had been sacked from his last 10 jobs. 

It may well be a bitter pill for Oxford to swallow in that the liklehood would be next season Oxford are in the championship.

However when you look at average attendance, stadium, training facilities, academy etc. I imagine they would have been a big pull for Manning.

 

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

But he will only leave us quickly if we're flying in the division in 12 month's time and a club come knocking that can treble his salary and provide him even better facilities. Plenty of those clubs exist, but that's a known threat for us and we should be planning ahead for that situation.

The food chain sucks when you're not at the top of it, but you can do things to mitigate its impact.

If Oxford have not planned in that way then more fool them.

……..and only a seven month jump to the Prem

[Sleepy1968]

1 minute ago, rednotblue said:

It may well be a bitter pill for Oxford to swallow in that the liklehood would be next season Oxford are in the championship.

However when you look at average attendance, stadium, training facilities, academy etc. I imagine they would have been a big pull for Manning.

 

I'm sure all that helped, but surely doubling or tripling his salary is a big pull. Presumably we've also convinced him he will be backed to get us up, or at least mske a genuine attempt.

[shelts]

58 minutes ago, Gimme Shelton said:

One of my favourite days ever, getting that ****** out of our club!

One of the most oddest of appointments I can remember . 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

Enjoy listening to some of his stuff in the past. Very knowledgeable and does his research. 

Yep, clear from his Championship Check-in pod (with Sam Parkin) that he has a great knowledge.  His recall of years, players, etc is amazing.

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Most managers don’t last more than 15 months anyway. 
I just wish that one day we’d have a manager successful enough for other clubs to poach. 
Last one was Joe Jordan in 1990!!! 
 

If Manning does a superb job here and Bournemouth want him in 12 months I’d not like it but wouldn’t be bitter. 

For Ben’s programme I recently set the question - what was the average number of days a championship manager lasts….it was 15 months near as dammit.

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Come on Pete. If we had signed an inexperienced manager who had been sacked from his only job and then gave him the money to spend that he demanded, got players to buy in and sign new contracts and then ****** off at the 1st opportunity then we'd also be pissed off. 

Even tho you can understand why he's left them, we'd be pissed off it that happened to us. 

Just adding a bit of perspective. 

Just being pedantic, LM had a job before being sacked at MKD…Lommel which he kept.

FWIW, Barnsley fans (remember them - Saul Goodman?) who used to come on here saying LJ was a snake, would leave us in a year, etc, etc.

[REDOXO]

It’s threads like this that make me appreciate that I have a life!

[Dan11]

1 hour ago, rednotblue said:

It may well be a bitter pill for Oxford to swallow in that the liklehood would be next season Oxford are in the championship.

However when you look at average attendance, stadium, training facilities, academy etc. I imagine they would have been a big pull for Manning.

 

You have to look at his decision to leave in the context of his past experience at MK as well. He had a couple of opportunities to leave when he was flying there and he stuck around for the family silver to be sold a few months later and the recruitment team to struggle to replicate their loan success from the previous summer. 6 months is a long time in football and you have to cash in whilst your stock is high!

[CliftonCliff]

2 hours ago, petehinton said:

Saw that earlier. Oxfords reaction has been ******* odd tbh. As far as I’m aware he’s never said he’d never leave, never said he wants to be there forever.
 

We are a bigger club with much higher expectations, much bigger salary for him, better squad, better facilities, much higher average attendance. That’s without red specs on, just pure facts. 
 

The talk of them “picking him up from the scrap heap” is laughable as well. One of the most highly thought of coaches in England. Not some down and outer journeyman coach that had been sacked from his last 10 jobs. 

I agree with what you say, but reading this I was uncomfortably reminded of Derek McInnes being appointed when regarded as one of the up and coming young managers in the game. That went well. Not that I thought he was as bad as some made him out to be. More that BCFC brought him when in he was doing extremely well and spat him out again with his career in far worse shape than when he joined us. He wasn't the first to suffer that fate and he won't be the last.

Hopeful about Manning and hope he does well, despite my fury at the treatment handed out to NP - why would any genuine supporter want any other outcome? - but it's not just the head coach we need to worry about, is it? It's the same regime in place now that was there when DMcI was given the job. They've just made one incredibly wrong-headed decision, in the opinion of many of us. Don't bet against them doing it again at some future point.

[Kid in the Riot]

6 minutes ago, CliftonCliff said:

I agree with what you say, but reading this I was uncomfortably reminded of Derek McInnes being appointed when regarded as one of the up and coming young managers in the game. That went well. Not that I thought he was as bad as some made him out to be. More that BCFC brought him when in he was doing extremely well and spat him out again with his career in far worse shape than when he joined us. He wasn't the first to suffer that fate and he won't be the last.

Hopeful about Manning and hope he does well, despite my fury at the treatment handed out to NP - why would any genuine supporter want any other outcome? - but it's not just the head coach we need to worry about, is it? It's the same regime in place now that was there when DMcI was given the job. They've just made one incredibly wrong-headed decision, in the opinion of many of us. Don't bet against them doing it again at some future point.

McInnes is probably the closest comparison in some ways but he came from a very small club in St Johnstone and had only ended his playing career 3 years before joining us, so didn't have anything like the coaching experience that Manning has. He also managed in Scotland of course. There are certainly comparisons in the set-up behind the scenes then and now, as in it's very threadbare and Jon has a significant role, so I agree that is a concern.

I suppose the final point is that whilst unsuccessful at City (in part due to the clown show around him) he has subsequently had decent success at Aberdeen, in fact I think he's arguably the only Lansdown appointment who has gone onto better things since leaving City. So, there are worse people for Manning to be compared with, for sure.

The general set-up in terms of recruitment, academy and facilities are obviously far better now than under McInnes. 

[TDarwall]

The other thing re McInnes was that he came after Johnson, Coppell & Millen had all failed in quick succession, but each having spent some ££ & bought more players.  He inherited a massively bloated squad & had to get pound shop purchases if he wanted anything else.

Not sure anyone can argue that Manning is getting a slender squad & whilst it was unfair none of it was offered to Nige, I suspect there will be at least some cash to spend in Jan.

[Henry]

I do get the point of what Oxford fans are saying, just not the promotion.

 I wish some of these young managers would stay in their jobs for a bit and actually achieve something, before jumping.  I’d be disappointed if he ever got us 2nd in the table and jumped before finishing the job.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, Spud21 said:

Dunno, Pulis was "poached" by Portsmouth wasn't he?

Only after being "battered", "fried" and " roasted" by us! 

[JP Hampton]

3 hours ago, Cristored said:

Exactly this, there are a number of clubs that I know have a long term interest in Manning, he was part of succession planning for clubs at the top of this division, another reason the club deserve credit for going early while he was available. 

Would be genuinely interested to know how you know something like this? Surely to know “a number of clubs” that have a long term interest in Manning, you’d have to have inside info. So do you?

[Cristored]

Just now, JP Hampton said:

Would be genuinely interested to know how you know something like this? Surely to know “a number of clubs” that have a long term interest in Manning, you’d have to have inside info. So do you?

Southampton/Middlesbrough/Stoke all had him on their ‘list’ if things turned sour, so I was told by a football agent who I know as a family friend. I’m not ITK in anyway shape or form usually as I rarely see him but I asked about Manning as I was initially unsure. He said that Manning would be going to a top champ club after Oxford and that we were probably acting early to get him. 

[JP Hampton]

9 minutes ago, Cristored said:

Southampton/Middlesbrough/Stoke all had him on their ‘list’ if things turned sour, so I was told by a football agent who I know as a family friend. I’m not ITK in anyway shape or form usually as I rarely see him but I asked about Manning as I was initially unsure. He said that Manning would be going to a top champ club after Oxford and that we were probably acting early to get him. 

Thanks, interesting. 

[Spud21]

37 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Only after being "battered", "fried" and " roasted" by us! 

God he was awful, about the only thing he could be credited with is I thinj being the man responsible for starting the Greatest single redemption arc in football history the big man with the tan Steve Jones. 

[the1stknowle]

4 hours ago, transfer reader said:

I think there is a valid point about him leaving quickly though. 

Is it going to be harder in this summer for him to sell to others that he's building a long term project when players can see him leaving 1/3 of the way through a season?

I'm sure there's counter points like it being a divisional jump, and the way Benjamin Bloom said (probably paraphrased) it's about a 3 year jump from where he was to where he is now.

He’s likely disappointed himself that he didn’t get to see it through as it was looking very positive. 

But career chances don’t always come along when you want them, or indeed, twice. So sometimes you have to be selfish. Hardly a morality issue. But fully understand the frustration from Oxford fans (search ‘Alex Scott’ ‘Bournemouth’ on OTIB). 

[Spud21]

56 minutes ago, Henry said:

I do get the point of what Oxford fans are saying, just not the promotion.

 I wish some of these young managers would stay in their jobs for a bit and actually achieve something, before jumping.  I’d be disappointed if he ever got us 2nd in the table and jumped before finishing the job.

Agreed but as Manning himself has expirienced thst does not necessarily swing the other way, let's say he got Oxford into the Playoffs which would still have been one hell of an achievement, and then they sell his best players and don't replace them and they start the next season poorly suddenly he's under pressure and could be out of a job. 

I would argue that we are one of the few clubs that do give a manager time to get through a sticky patch, things looked pretty bleak for Pearson last Christmas and a lot of clubs would have pulled the trigger, Johnson has some spectacular streaks in both bloody directions, GJ had some times where he could have been out on his ear. 

The only manager I can think of who didn't get that was Cotts who should really have been in massive credit but due to other reasons was not with those at the top. 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Spud21

[W-S-M Seagull]

34 minutes ago, Cristored said:

Southampton/Middlesbrough/Stoke all had him on their ‘list’ if things turned sour, so I was told by a football agent who I know as a family friend. I’m not ITK in anyway shape or form usually as I rarely see him but I asked about Manning as I was initially unsure. He said that Manning would be going to a top champ club after Oxford and that we were probably acting early to get him. 

Thanks for your insight, Jon. 

Would you like to buy some tartan paint off of me? Bloke down the pub told me it's the next big thing in interior design.

[Ian M]

4 hours ago, 38MC said:

Interested in this part KITR. It's actually my main concern - he's not a good fit for the situation we find ourselves in. And the reason I have concerns on that front is the autocratic nature of those above him ('we don't need a CEO'), the owner seemingly out of interest; persona non-grata; actively looking to sell, an underinvested squad, a divided fan base and wholesale changes in coaching staff and needing to rebuild quite a few different functions. To me it feels like quite a big job and dare I say it's come a bit too early. 

Where he is fortunate with regards to our situation is that the powers that be really can't be seen to have failed on this one. So I suspect he will be well backed and will be given time (so long as we don't flirt with relegation).

But to me the situation is what's most worrying. 

 

Is he definitely disinterested or just didn't like Pearson and knew he'd likely not renew his contract?

It could be that with a HC that he likes, he might loosen the purse strings slightly again, though hopefully not to LJ/MA levels.

With my theory it's akin to knowing your relationship is not likely to last much longer so not spending a huge amount on them even though you can afford it. It doesn't mean you then won't spend on your next partner.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, Dan11 said:

You have to look at his decision to leave in the context of his past experience at MK as well. He had a couple of opportunities to leave when he was flying there and he stuck around for the family silver to be sold a few months later and the recruitment team to struggle to replicate their loan success from the previous summer. 6 months is a long time in football and you have to cash in whilst your stock is high!

I think where my concerns lay is that he did well at MK, after taken on the team that Russell Martin built. Credit to him for getting to the play offs but they did lose to Wycombe. 

The next season, when able to make his own stamp on the team, he built a team that ended up getting relegated. It would be nieve to think he had no input to the recruitment process. 

Here he will also lose his best players over the course of his time here. Our recruitment has been good here recently so hopefully that will continue.

I can see why he has left Oxford but I can also see how Oxford fans feel a bit sour leaving after only 7 months and having recieved significant funds to build the squad he wanted.