An outsiders views on Bristol City’s strategies , and the appointment of Liam Manning

[Sheltons Army]

Benjamin Blooms thoughts regarding us , our change and the appointment of Manning

(Thought it was worth giving him / it a new thread as , for those interested might get missed amongst the other lively Manning discusssions)

I found , as I always do with BB , it interesting , thought provoking with some excellent points about us , Manning etc

This guy for an outsider actually , and regularly ,talks more sense about us IMHO than those involved in home produced Podcasts 

 

[Red Army 75]

19 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Benjamin Blooms thoughts regarding us , our change and the appointment of Manning

(Thought it was worth giving him / it a new thread as , for those interested might get missed amongst the other lively Manning discusssions)

I found , as I always do with BB , it interesting , thought provoking with some excellent points about us , Manning etc

This guy for an outsider actually , and regularly ,talks more sense about us IMHO than those involved in home produced Podcasts 

 

Enjoy listening to some of his stuff in the past. Very knowledgeable and does his research. 

[Sheltons Army]

2 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Enjoy listening to some of his stuff in the past. Very knowledgeable and does his research. 

Yes

In this piece he hits a lot of nails about us as a Club and our current strategies etc IMHO and provides balanced and sensible points positive and negative about Liam Manning 

It’s actually the most sensible view and views on it all that I’ve heard from outside or within our own

[Harry]

Said pretty much everything I put on my post on the early pages of the Manning thread. 
I wonder if I ought start a YouTube channel

[bcfc01]

I like BB and his vids, he always comes across as having done his research and is unbiased.

I thought this one started ok but ended up with him just having a bit of a ramble.

 

 

[Sheltons Army]

Talking about views from a non City viewpoint , I saw this , and to be brutally honest expected a ranting Oxford fan , with a full on tirade aimed at Manning

Well worth a watch , the young man is incredibly articulate and intelligent 

He’ gutted , he questions Manning loyalty / morality in an intelligent explanation , but explains what Manning did at Oxford and the job he did there and is extremely complimentary about his work

A highly impressive lad and another , very interesting , thought provoking,  listen 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[petehinton]

13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Talking about views from a non City viewpoint , I saw this , and to be brutally honest expected a ranting Oxford fan , with a full on tirade aimed at Manning

Well worth a watch , the young man is incredibly articulate and intelligent 

He’ gutted , he questions Manning loyalty / morality in an intelligent explanation , but explains what Manning did at Oxford and the job he did there and is extremely complimentary about his work

A highly impressive lad and another , very interesting , thought provoking,  listen 

 

Saw that earlier. Oxfords reaction has been ******* odd tbh. As far as I’m aware he’s never said he’d never leave, never said he wants to be there forever.
 

We are a bigger club with much higher expectations, much bigger salary for him, better squad, better facilities, much higher average attendance. That’s without red specs on, just pure facts. 
 

The talk of them “picking him up from the scrap heap” is laughable as well. One of the most highly thought of coaches in England. Not some down and outer journeyman coach that had been sacked from his last 10 jobs. 

[Kid in the Riot]

The more "outsiders" I speak to, but people that work in football, the more I'm convinced we've made a very shrewd appointment. 

No guarantees it'll work, of course. But for the situation we find ourselves in I think he could be a great fit.

I'm sure we weren't the only Championship club that had him high on a list of potential replacements.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Kid in the Riot

[transfer reader]

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Saw that earlier. Oxfords reaction has been ******* odd tbh. As far as I’m aware he’s never said he’d never leave, never said he wants to be there forever.
 

We are a bigger club with much higher expectations, much bigger salary for him, better squad, better facilities, much higher average attendance. That’s without red specs on, just pure facts. 
 

The talk of them “picking him up from the scrap heap” is laughable as well. One of the most highly thought of coaches in England. Not some down and outer journeyman coach that had been sacked from his last 10 jobs. 

I think there is a valid point about him leaving quickly though. 

Is it going to be harder in this summer for him to sell to others that he's building a long term project when players can see him leaving 1/3 of the way through a season?

I'm sure there's counter points like it being a divisional jump, and the way Benjamin Bloom said (probably paraphrased) it's about a 3 year jump from where he was to where he is now.

[ExiledAjax]

3 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

I think there is a valid point about him leaving quickly though. 

Is it going to be harder in this summer for him to sell to others that he's building a long term project when players can see him leaving 1/3 of the way through a season?

I'm sure there's counter points like it being a divisional jump, and the way Benjamin Bloom said (probably paraphrased) it's about a 3 year jump from where he was to where he is now.

But he will only leave us quickly if we're flying in the division in 12 month's time and a club come knocking that can treble his salary and provide him even better facilities. Plenty of those clubs exist, but that's a known threat for us and we should be planning ahead for that situation.

The food chain sucks when you're not at the top of it, but you can do things to mitigate its impact.

If Oxford have not planned in that way then more fool them.

[Sheltons Army]

11 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Saw that earlier. Oxfords reaction has been ******* odd tbh. As far as I’m aware he’s never said he’d never leave, never said he wants to be there forever.
 

We are a bigger club with much higher expectations, much bigger salary for him, better squad, better facilities, much higher average attendance. That’s without red specs on, just pure facts. 
 

The talk of them “picking him up from the scrap heap” is laughable as well. One of the most highly thought of coaches in England. Not some down and outer journeyman coach that had been sacked from his last 10 jobs. 

I thought he was measured and made some sensible points Pete

Regarding the loyalty thing , firstly , well it’s football isn’t it , loyalty ....sadly...really...

Its life , but to see somebody jump 8 months into a project is not unusual , (sadly IMHO), these days , but there we are

Its unusual for us as City fans to consider as we don’t get our managers poached and rarely have we pinched somebody else’s.

it did make we consider 

If we knew Now that Liam Manning with his new project , will , at the end of the season say get us into 7th place but then get poached by say our friends at Bournemouth , leaving us with a search for a new man , would we actually take that , ......... I guess morals aside ....... We absolutely would

 

(* I’m not suggesting Manning will , or won’t and the morals and ethics in football never settle well for me )

Edited November 8, 2023 by Sheltons Army

[bcfc01]

17 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Talking about views from a non City viewpoint , I saw this , and to be brutally honest expected a ranting Oxford fan , with a full on tirade aimed at Manning

Well worth a watch , the young man is incredibly articulate and intelligent 

He’ gutted , he questions Manning loyalty / morality in an intelligent explanation , but explains what Manning did at Oxford and the job he did there and is extremely complimentary about his work

A highly impressive lad and another , very interesting , thought provoking,  listen 

 

Thanks for posting this, very watchable.

Poor lad is distraught, but kept his emotions under control and it wasn't a senseless rant like some of the posts on their forum. Some of those forum members could do with watching this kid and how to react.

I understand that Oxford insisted on a clause in his contract which absolved them of any recompense if it didn't work out and ended with him being sacked. LM countered it by having his own clause inserted which meant he could leave if another club triggered the compensation amount. I'm not sure, but I think he was on a rolling one year contract as well.

As such, I fail to see how he's been disloyal. The Oxford board agreed those terms and now the CEO is whining that a club came in and LM walked away. They should have had the courage of their convictions and given him a 3 year contract, no ifs or buts. If they had done that, he would probably still be there as they could dictate the compensation amount. Idiots.

Nice to hear the lads positive thoughts on LM, very encouraging.

 

[Harry]

Most managers don’t last more than 15 months anyway. 
I just wish that one day we’d have a manager successful enough for other clubs to poach. 
Last one was Joe Jordan in 1990!!! 
 

If Manning does a superb job here and Bournemouth want him in 12 months I’d not like it but wouldn’t be bitter. 

[transfer reader]

Just now, ExiledAjax said:

But he will only leave us quickly if we're flying in the division in 12 month's time and a club come knocking that can treble his salary and provide him even better facilities. Plenty of those clubs exist, but that's a known threat for us and we should be planning ahead for that situation.

The food chain sucks when you're not at the top of it, but you can do things to mitigate its impact.

If Oxford have not planned in that way then more fool them.

Oh absolutely, on that. I'm more wondering about the players side.

If he gets a reputation for jumping ship at the first chance, will that harm his ability to bring in players to be a part of his project.

It could also be said it's far too early to say he has a reputation for it yet though, as its literally the first time it's happened.

[Desso]

29 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Talking about views from a non City viewpoint , I saw this , and to be brutally honest expected a ranting Oxford fan , with a full on tirade aimed at Manning

Well worth a watch , the young man is incredibly articulate and intelligent 

He’ gutted , he questions Manning loyalty / morality in an intelligent explanation , but explains what Manning did at Oxford and the job he did there and is extremely complimentary about his work

A highly impressive lad and another , very interesting , thought provoking,  listen 

 

Very articulate, but too much repeating the same things. What he had to say could have been done in half the time.

[ExiledAjax]

7 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Oh absolutely, on that. I'm more wondering about the players side.

If he gets a reputation for jumping ship at the first chance, will that harm his ability to bring in players to be a part of his project.

It could also be said it's far too early to say he has a reputation for it yet though, as its literally the first time it's happened.

Agreed, and I think you also have to ask if having such a reputation marks him out in his field?

I'd posit that it doesn't at all. Off the top of my head look at Potter, Jones, Edwards, many others I'm sure. There's no loyalty. Any manager, any man (or woman), in this game will take the higher salary, higher level, bigger challenge.

But clubs know it, and they build contracts that anticipate it.

Players will know it too...and aren't exactly immune to making "mercenary" moves themselves are they!

Edited November 8, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Cristored]

15 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The more "outsiders" I speak to, but people that work in football, the more I'm convinced we've made a very shrewd appointment. 

No guarantees it'll work, of course. But for the situation we find ourselves in I think he could be a great fit.

I'm sure we weren't the only Championship club that had him high on a list of potential replacements.

Exactly this, there are a number of clubs that I know have a long term interest in Manning, he was part of succession planning for clubs at the top of this division, another reason the club deserve credit for going early while he was available. 

[Nogbad the Bad]

 

 

1 hour ago, Sheltons Army said:

Benjamin Blooms thoughts regarding us , our change and the appointment of Manning

(Thought it was worth giving him / it a new thread as , for those interested might get missed amongst the other lively Manning discusssions)

I found , as I always do with BB , it interesting , thought provoking with some excellent points about us , Manning etc

This guy for an outsider actually , and regularly ,talks more sense about us IMHO than those involved in home produced Podcasts 

 

I like Bloom a lot, been watching his podcasts for years and he's one of the best and most knowledgeable imo.

When comparing him with our home produced City podcasts though he has one overwhelming advantage in 'talking sense', he's not lumbered with decades of disappointment increasing his frustration, or an emotional attachment to the club, which means he can view the club with detachment, as you say, as an outsider.

Which he does extremely well.

Got to say though I appreciate all the City fans who take the time to do podcasts - whether I agree with what they say or not - and them having having travelled the same road, and being able to identify with their emotional attachment to the club, is a big part of that.

[Kid in the Riot]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

Most managers don’t last more than 15 months anyway. 
I just wish that one day we’d have a manager successful enough for other clubs to poach. 
Last one was Joe Jordan in 1990!!! 

Pulis to Pompey!

[38MC]

10 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

The more "outsiders" I speak to, but people that work in football, the more I'm convinced we've made a very shrewd appointment. 

No guarantees it'll work, of course. But for the situation we find ourselves in I think he could be a great fit.

I'm sure we weren't the only Championship club that had him high on a list of potential replacements.

Interested in this part KITR. It's actually my main concern - he's not a good fit for the situation we find ourselves in. And the reason I have concerns on that front is the autocratic nature of those above him ('we don't need a CEO'), the owner seemingly out of interest; persona non-grata; actively looking to sell, an underinvested squad, a divided fan base and wholesale changes in coaching staff and needing to rebuild quite a few different functions. To me it feels like quite a big job and dare I say it's come a bit too early. 

Where he is fortunate with regards to our situation is that the powers that be really can't be seen to have failed on this one. So I suspect he will be well backed and will be given time (so long as we don't flirt with relegation).

But to me the situation is what's most worrying. 

 

[W-S-M Seagull]

16 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Saw that earlier. Oxfords reaction has been ******* odd tbh. As far as I’m aware he’s never said he’d never leave, never said he wants to be there forever.
 

We are a bigger club with much higher expectations, much bigger salary for him, better squad, better facilities, much higher average attendance. That’s without red specs on, just pure facts. 
 

The talk of them “picking him up from the scrap heap” is laughable as well. One of the most highly thought of coaches in England. Not some down and outer journeyman coach that had been sacked from his last 10 jobs. 

Come on Pete. If we had signed an inexperienced manager who had been sacked from his only job and then gave him the money to spend that he demanded, got players to buy in and sign new contracts and then ****** off at the 1st opportunity then we'd also be pissed off. 

Even tho you can understand why he's left them, we'd be pissed off it that happened to us. 

Just adding a bit of perspective. 

[bcfc01]

2 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Oh absolutely, on that. I'm more wondering about the players side.

If he gets a reputation for jumping ship at the first chance, will that harm his ability to bring in players to be a part of his project.

It could also be said it's far too early to say he has a reputation for it yet though, as its literally the first time it's happened.

He's been given a three and a half year contract which shows some backing from the club. I have no idea of the make up of the contract but I would think the club wouldn't be so stupid as to have any performance clauses inserted. That should satisfy LM that he has the backing of the club and he can talk to players and highlight that fact.

Being on the uncertain contract he was on at Oxford, I'm surprised he managed to get players to buy into a long term plan.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, Cristored said:

Exactly this, there are a number of clubs that I know have a long term interest in Manning, he was part of succession planning for clubs at the top of this division, another reason the club deserve credit for going early while he was available. 

Thanks for repeating what you said in the press conference Jon.

[red panda]

I can understand Oxford fans' frustrations at LM jumping ship for a club that, on paper, is only a few places above them.  It's possible that if he does well then a bigger club will come calling.  But many Premier League clubs (including Bournemouth) seem to look overseas these days, or to others with previous PL experience.  And hopefully Nathan Jones' wrecking of Southampton will discourage other clubs from dipping into the Championship for their managers in the near future 

[Sheltons Army]

4 minutes ago, transfer reader said:

Oh absolutely, on that. I'm more wondering about the players side.

If he gets a reputation for jumping ship at the first chance, will that harm his ability to bring in players to be a part of his project.

It could also be said it's far too early to say he has a reputation for it yet though, as its literally the first time it's happened.

The reality is players are not much different - If they are part of something going in an upward trajectory that benefits them , and the new head coach is picking them they will be onboard

And if a similar move is on similarly upwards they will be off too

Thats the reality 

 

Players will look back at Pearson , I’m sure with gratitude and respect , in the years ahead , but , after some genuine sadness IMHO , the players will look after themselves 

[Gimme Shelton]

3 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Pulis to Pompey!

One of my favourite days ever, getting that ****** out of our club!

[transfer reader]

8 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Agreed, and I think you also have to ask if having such a reputation marks him out in his field?

I'd posit that it doesn't at all. Off the top of my head look at Potter, Jones, Edwards, many others I'm sure. There's no loyalty. Any manager, any man (or woman), in this game will take the higher salary, higher level, bigger challenge.

But clubs know it, and they build contracts that anticipate it.

Players will know it too...and aren't exactly immune to making "mercenary" moves themselves are they!

 

3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

He's been given a three and a half year contract which shows some backing from the club. I have no idea of the make up of the contract but I would think the club wouldn't be so stupid as to have any performance clauses inserted. That should satisfy LM that he has the backing of the club and he can talk to players and highlight that fact.

Being on the uncertain contract he was on at Oxford, I'm surprised he managed to get players to buy into a long term plan.

 

3 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

The reality is players are not much different - If they are part of something going in an upward trajectory that benefits them , and the new head coach is picking them they will be onboard

And if a similar move is on similarly upwards they will be off too

Thats the reality 

 

Players will look back at Pearson , I’m sure with gratitude and respect , in the years ahead , but , after some genuine sadness IMHO , the players will look after themselves 

All valid comments and not sure I disagree with much if any that's said there

[red panda]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Come on Pete. If we had signed an inexperienced manager who had been sacked from his only job and then gave him the money to spend that he demanded, got players to buy in and sign new contracts and then ****** off at the 1st opportunity then we'd also be pissed off. 

Even tho you can understand why he's left them, we'd be pissed off it that happened to us. 

Just adding a bit of perspective. 

Really?  Who knew  ?

But with apologies for being boring, it was absolutely not his only job.  He's been coaching for a long time, and was head coach at Lommel before MK.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, red panda said:

Really?  Who knew  ?

But with apologies for being boring, it was absolutely not his only job.  He's been coaching for a long time, and was head coach at Lommel before MK.

The fact I'd never heard of Lommel until a few days ago speaks volumes, hence why I easily forgot about it when posting. 

To appease you I'll change it to only head coach role in England  

But the point still stands, if we heavily backed him in the Jan window and we do well and he ***** off in March to a Luton or Bournemouth then we'd be pissed off too.

[Kid in the Riot]

13 minutes ago, 38MC said:

Interested in this part KITR. It's actually my main concern - he's not a good fit for the situation we find ourselves in. And the reason I have concerns on that front is the autocratic nature of those above him ('we don't need a CEO'), the owner seemingly out of interest; persona non-grata; actively looking to sell, an underinvested squad, a divided fan base and wholesale changes in coaching staff and needing to rebuild quite a few different functions. To me it feels like quite a big job and dare I say it's come a bit too early. 

Where he is fortunate with regards to our situation is that the powers that be really can't be seen to have failed on this one. So I suspect he will be well backed and will be given time (so long as we don't flirt with relegation).

But to me the situation is what's most worrying. 

I meant from a purely football perspective; I share your concerns with the wider governance of the club.