I'll go against the tide

[cheese]

Well, not sure this will be universally accepted but I thought the first half today was better than we were used to seeing under Nige.  There was better control in confined spaces and I thought that we always had an "out" ball.  We had players taking the ball between the lines and, with some better finishing could have been a couple of goals to the good.  I thought the "system" was working well but that the players didn't quite have the quality (or confidence maybe) to finish the job.

Second half, clearly Norwich made some adjustments to counter what they'd seen in the first half which made it more difficult.  Then they equalised with a freakish own goal and then Zak got caught out under the ball and with a player like Idah (who would walk into our team but can only make the Norwich bench) was a fatal mistake.

Against So'ton we could, and should, have been 2/3 goals up at half time.

Fine margins and I'm optimistic it will come good and the results will come.

[Harry]

I agree 

[W-S-M Seagull]

Whilst we may be 'better coached' we have also developed a powerpuff mentality. 

 

 

 

 

[spudski]

3 minutes ago, cheese said:

Well, not sure this will be universally accepted but I thought the first half today was better than we were used to seeing under Nige.  There was better control in confined spaces and I thought that we always had an "out" ball.  We had players taking the ball between the lines and, with some better finishing could have been a couple of goals to the good.  I thought the "system" was working well but that the players didn't quite have the quality (or confidence maybe) to finish the job.

Second half, clearly Norwich made some adjustments to counter what they'd seen in the first half which made it more difficult.  Then they equalised with a freakish own goal and then Zak got caught out under the ball and with a player like Idah (who would walk into our team but can only make the Norwich bench) was a fatal mistake.

Against So'ton we could, and should, have been 2/3 goals up at half time.

Fine margins and I'm optimistic it will come good and the results will come.

I've watched and commented that we've improved in certain areas. It's noticeable. 

But as you imply...have we the players capable to win games, more so than under NP, whilst in mid season and a transition period, whilst ticking the box of the board of having a squad capable of being promotion contenders, under a new coach. 

If they had said...' we don't think we'll get promoted under NP and need another transition period', whilst the fan base would be pissed off, at least it would be an honest move. 

Rather than the ridiculous situation Manning finds himself in. 

Under different circumstances, ignoring his interview skills, given a clean sheet, and time, he may well prove good. 

Sadly the board have nailed him. 

 

[cheese]

4 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've watched and commented that we've improved in certain areas. It's noticeable. 

But as you imply...have we the players capable to win games, more so than under NP, whilst in mid season and a transition period, whilst ticking the box of the board of having a squad capable of being promotion contenders, under a new coach. 

If they had said...' we don't think we'll get promoted under NP and need another transition period', whilst the fan base would be pissed off, at least it would be an honest move. 

Rather than the ridiculous situation Manning finds himself in. 

Under different circumstances, ignoring his interview skills, given a clean sheet, and time, he may well prove good. 

Sadly the board have nailed him. 

 

Yes, absolutely.  Honesty is all we needed.  They could easily have said that they thought Nige had now taken us as far as he could.  That, with his health issue making it impossible for him to attend the training ground that it would be better to change now rather than wait.  Thank him properly for what he had done and achieved since joining, and wish him well and a speedy recovery. Then maybe, just maybe, they would have had the fanbase on their side.

But, as Nige would probably have said himself, we are where we are and have to get on with it.  And I just think I can see what Manning is trying to do and he has made a difference in the short time he's been here.

[cheese]

Oh, and I think Manning has some learning to do also.  In league 1, if you dominated a side in the first half the opposition probably didn't have the nouse, or the players, to change things.  This is the championship, the managers are better and the teams have deeper and better squads.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 minute ago, cheese said:

Yes, absolutely. Honesty is all we needed. They could easily have said that they thought Nige had now taken us as far as he could. That, with his health issue making it impossible for him to attend the training ground that it would be better to change now rather than wait. Thank him properly for what he had done and achieved since joining, and wish him well and a speedy recovery. Then maybe, just maybe, they would have had the fanbase on their side.

 

 

 

But, as Nige would probably have said himself, we are where we are and have to get on with it. And I just think I can see what Manning is trying to do and he has made a difference in the short time he's been here.

Huh? Really?

[cheese]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

Huh? Really?

Yes, thanks for your contribution.

[And Its Smith]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Huh? Really?

Clearly he has made a difference. We are playing in a different way. 

[robin_unreliant]

20 minutes ago, cheese said:

 

Fine margins and I'm optimistic it will come good and the results will come.

My concern is that we don't have enough quality up front to consistently take the chances we create. Plus the soft goals are creeping back in again after we seemed to have cut them out. So, to summarise, I am not as optimistic as you. All comes down to inconsistency due to the level of players in the squad imo.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Clearly he has made a difference. We are playing in a different way. 

When someone says "made a difference" that's implying it's a good difference. 

We're playing incredible shit boring dull football. That's not a difference I wanted to see! 

Edited December 3, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[REDOXO]

I really don’t see where we have improved. We tip tap the ball around going nowhere which teams will allow us to do. Hickmans goal papered over cracks and helped us all to believe for a second that maybe the firing of Pearson was a good idea. 

Vyner has converted back to his former self. Bell looks off it as does Wiemann. ConwAy looks like he couldn’t score in a brothel. Tanner was completely uncomfortable further forward. Mehmeti looks as crap as he’s always been and Pring seems to be second guessing himself and becoming a bit anonymous as a threat

Knight and Dickie are putting it in and Sykes has been decent enough. 
 

Where are we improved under Mr Manning so far. Asking for a friend. 

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, cheese said:

Yes, absolutely.  Honesty is all we needed.  They could easily have said that they thought Nige had now taken us as far as he could.  That, with his health issue making it impossible for him to attend the training ground that it would be better to change now rather than wait.  Thank him properly for what he had done and achieved since joining, and wish him well and a speedy recovery. Then maybe, just maybe, they would have had the fanbase on their side.

But, as Nige would probably have said himself, we are where we are and have to get on with it.  And I just think I can see what Manning is trying to do and he has made a difference in the short time he's been here.

I agree. Whether we are capable with this squad, under his guidance, to improve league position this season is certainly questionable. 

[cidered abroad]

Today was a replica of several previous home games this season.

Take a lead first half, while the opponents are still having a good look at us and working out how to play the more important second half.

They equalise within minutes of the second half starting. About ten minutes from time, City go on all out attack and lose with a sloppy defensive play in the last couple of added time minutes.

The comedian on another thread who said the bottom three were already down a couple of weeks ago will still be laughing at the end of April/early May?

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I really don’t see where we have improved. We tip tap the ball around going nowhere which teams will allow us to do. Hickmans goal papered over cracks and helped us all to believe for a second that maybe the firing of Pearson was a good idea. 

Vyner has converted back to his former self. Bell looks off it as does Wiemann. ConwAy looks like he couldn’t score in a brothel. Tanner was completely uncomfortable further forward. Mehmeti looks as crap as he’s always been and Pring seems to be second guessing himself and becoming a bit anonymous as a threat

Knight and Dickie are putting it in and Sykes has been decent enough. 
 

Where are we improved under Mr Manning so far. Asking for a friend. 

I find it hilarious that people think we have improved because we can pass it round our back 4 better than before. 

[REDOXO]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

I find it hilarious that people think we have improved because we can pass it round our back 4 better than before. 

Exactly. I do too. But I am prepared for someone to actually tell me what the improvements are outside of an unquestionable comment. 
 

Where are we improved nail it down someone/anyone?

[Mr Popodopolous]

40 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Clearly he has made a difference. We are playing in a different way. 

Making a difference making isn't always for the better.

Serious note, still early I guess but perhaps more possession and less crossing and I thought we crossed it a bit too much under NP, but on the downside a bit slow, plodding.

33 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Today was a replica of several previous home games this season.

Take a lead first half, while the opponents are still having a good look at us and working out how to play the more important second half.

They equalise within minutes of the second half starting. About ten minutes from time, City go on all out attack and lose with a sloppy defensive play in the last couple of added time minutes.

The comedian on another thread who said the bottom three were already down a couple of weeks ago will still be laughing at the end of April/early May?

Only happened once this year, v Stoke iirc.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

34 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Clearly he has made a difference. We are playing in a different way. 

But there are pros and cons to it.

I think some are only seeing the differences that are positive, and not seeing the differences that aren’t.  And we are happy for a 20-minute positive spell, whereas in games earlier this season that would be dismissed for what happened in the rest of the game.  It’s natural.  I think most on here want LM to succeed, so want to highlight the positives.

 

[Harry]

City fans over the last 5 years :

”we’re rubbish - we can’t string 2 passes together” 

“we hardly ever get a shot on target - this is the most boring game I’ve ever seen”. 
 

City under Manning :

Regularly keeping the ball for 20-30 passes. 
Double the amount of shots on target. 
 

City fans :

”why do we just keep passing the ball about” 

“this is so boring” 

Each to their own I guess 

[Harry]

I think we’ve generally done ok so far and I can see positive changes in how we are playing. 

We’ve let in 5 goals under Manning. 
1 dickwad own goal from Vyner. 
1 sloppy mistake from Tanner gifting Boro the ball in his own half. 
1 unstoppable shot into the top corner by a full back. 
1 unlucky own goal that derived from Weimann gifting Norwich the ball in his own half. 
1 dickwad error from Vyner misjudging the flight of a long ball. 
 

We’ve actually played ok I think. We’ve competed, we’ve created, we’ve ran, we’ve worked, we’ve passed, we’ve just conceded 4 very very soft goals (none of which were as a result of how we’re trying to play and thus are not manager error). 

I’ve actually been rather encouraged so far. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Harry

[IAmNick]

Must admit I was surprised how negative the reaction on here was when I got home. It wasn't a great performance but I don't think it deserved the criticism it's getting.

I think a not great performance is being amplified by a few loud voices.

I think we're starting to see little movements, sequences, and patterns of play we didn't under Nige. Some of them looked pretty good so I was encouraged by that.

We're keeping the ball better, having more shots, and have cut out the endless chipped balls into the channels.

It's not all great and there were many poor things today but I do feel the reaction is a little OTT personally.

[Red Skin]

17 minutes ago, Harry said:

I think we’ve generally done ok so far and I can see positive changes in how we are playing. 

We’ve let in 5 goals under Manning. 
1 dickwad own goal from Vyner. 
1 sloppy mistake from Tanner gifting Boro the ball in his own half. 
1 unstoppable shot into the top corner by a full back. 
1 unlucky own goal that derived from Weimann gifting Norwich the ball in his own half. 
1 dickwad error from Vyner misjudging the flight of a long ball. 
 

We’ve actually played ok I think. We’ve competed, we’ve created, we’ve ran, we’ve worked, we’ve passed, we’ve just conceded 4 very very soft goals (none of which were as a result of how we’re trying to play and thus are not manager error). 

I’ve actually been rather encouraged so far. 

It's clear to me that some fans are so pissed with the board for sacking Pearson, they are blind to anything that could be seen as improvement.  

I didn't want to see Pearson sacked (feel I have to say that when I post anything positive) and no one believes what the Club hierarchy says about the reason why, but let's give Manning a chance.

Yes, there was a fair deal of passing along the back that didn't go anywhere but we did make a number of incisive pieces of play to open up Norwich.  As the players get more used to what Manning wants I am optimistic we'll see more incisive passing and more opportunities. 

I also think clever players like Bell will be more impactful coming inside and linking play than being stuck out on the wing and just being asked to chase hopeful punts down the channels.   Conway is struggling now, but I see more chances (like he had today) coming his way too, as the players become more adept at executing what the new regime are trying to implement.  

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

City fans over the last 5 years :

”we’re rubbish - we can’t string 2 passes together” 

“we hardly ever get a shot on target - this is the most boring game I’ve ever seen”. 
 

City under Manning :

Regularly keeping the ball for 20-30 passes. 
Double the amount of shots on target. 
 

City fans :

”why do we just keep passing the ball about” 

“this is so boring” 

Each to their own I guess 

We had 1 shot on target in 2nd half and it was just a tame effort by Conway.

[Sir Geoff]

5 hours ago, Harry said:

I think we’ve generally done ok so far and I can see positive changes in how we are playing. 

We’ve let in 5 goals under Manning. 
1 dickwad own goal from Vyner. 
1 sloppy mistake from Tanner gifting Boro the ball in his own half. 
1 unstoppable shot into the top corner by a full back. 
1 unlucky own goal that derived from Weimann gifting Norwich the ball in his own half. 
1 dickwad error from Vyner misjudging the flight of a long ball. 
 

We’ve actually played ok I think. We’ve competed, we’ve created, we’ve ran, we’ve worked, we’ve passed, we’ve just conceded 4 very very soft goals (none of which were as a result of how we’re trying to play and thus are not manager error). 

I’ve actually been rather encouraged so far. 

And scored only 3.

1. Penalty

1. Wonder goal from the edge of the box

1. Proper goal from open play 

Glad you're satisfied with things so far, cos I'm not 

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

And scored only 3.

1. Penalty

1. Wonder goal from the edge of the box

1. Proper goal from open play 

Glad you're satisfied with things so far, cos I'm not 

Yup. Volume of passes and volume of shots is not necessarily a reliable metric when it comes to entertainment and/or performance. Today we allegedly had 14 shots. Ignoring xG (we’ve been through that!) the number of genuine tests for the goalkeeper were low (Sky says 1 clear cut chance). If you have the majority of possession but create one clear chance, it’s bad possession - simple as. 
 

What there is, and I got some pelters for pointing this out on Wednesday, is a degredation as the game goes on. Teams are happy to let us have the ball and get our pass count up at the back in the first half then tweak what they need to at half time. And so far, there has been a chronic inability from the coach to “combat the counter”. I get that he believes in process over outcomes, but when other coaches counter that process you need to have a plan B and not get all huffy and blame it on a culture that only existed since you signed your contract.

 

[robinforlife2]

7 hours ago, cheese said:

Well, not sure this will be universally accepted but I thought the first half today was better than we were used to seeing under Nige.  There was better control in confined spaces and I thought that we always had an "out" ball.  We had players taking the ball between the lines and, with some better finishing could have been a couple of goals to the good.  I thought the "system" was working well but that the players didn't quite have the quality (or confidence maybe) to finish the job.

Second half, clearly Norwich made some adjustments to counter what they'd seen in the first half which made it more difficult.  Then they equalised with a freakish own goal and then Zak got caught out under the ball and with a player like Idah (who would walk into our team but can only make the Norwich bench) was a fatal mistake.

Against So'ton we could, and should, have been 2/3 goals up at half time.

Fine margins and I'm optimistic it will come good and the results will come.

This, we are not as bad as some fans are making out. We are just being wasteful and not taking our opportunities when they come. We could have easily been 2 or 3 nil up at HT at St Mary's and here yesterday and if we were, it's a completely different game and result. 

[Totterdown's Finest]

7 hours ago, cheese said:

Well, not sure this will be universally accepted but I thought the first half today was better than we were used to seeing under Nige.  There was better control in confined spaces and I thought that we always had an "out" ball.  We had players taking the ball between the lines and, with some better finishing could have been a couple of goals to the good.  I thought the "system" was working well but that the players didn't quite have the quality (or confidence maybe) to finish the job.

Second half, clearly Norwich made some adjustments to counter what they'd seen in the first half which made it more difficult.  Then they equalised with a freakish own goal and then Zak got caught out under the ball and with a player like Idah (who would walk into our team but can only make the Norwich bench) was a fatal mistake.

Against So'ton we could, and should, have been 2/3 goals up at half time.

Fine margins and I'm optimistic it will come good and the results will come.

I agree, I thought we looked comfortable in possession and Knight and TGH were finding space in the middle and in front of the Norwich back four. Still lack a cutting edge and were to blame for both goals, but Norwich are a good side who we made look average and who celebrated like they'd won the league!

[Sir Geoff]

1 minute ago, Totterdown's Finest said:

I agree, I thought we looked comfortable in possession and Knight and TGH were finding space in the middle and in front of the Norwich back four. Still lack a cutting edge and were to blame for both goals, but Norwich are a good side who we made look average and who celebrated like they'd won the league!

Norwich were / are ( I haven't looked at the table today ) below us in the league before yesterday. They looked a poor side, how can you say they are a good side 

People kept saying that about Middlesbrough, yet they were only a point better off than us before we played them.

Neither are or were good sides, although one or both may be considered as such at the end of the season.

[johnheadbcfc]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We had 1 shot on target in 2nd half and it was just a tame effort by Conway.

What about the games under Pearson that we had sometimes 1 shot on target throughout the game, I didnt recall you being critical about it then.

Edited December 4, 2023 by johnheadbcfc

[redrum]

First half was decent in general.

But still think we made the first 15 far too comfy for Norwich. They're supposedly low on confidence yet we let them settle nicely into the game. Would have liked to see us get into them from start.