Did he really say this???

[Son of Fred]

2 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

The school I went to in the late sixties had bank robbery on the curriculum.

Prefer a nice train job myself

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Merrywood? 

Began with an H

[Davefevs]

Just now, Son of Fred said:

Prefer a nice train job myself

Great!

[Son of Fred]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Merrywood? 

Eton.....

[Davefevs]

Just now, Countryfile said:

Began with an H

Ark at ee’

Since when did Artcliffe befin with an H.  You must’ve been from the posh bit!

1 minute ago, Son of Fred said:

Eton.....

You win OTIB for 2023

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

AI is going to be massive going forward. Check out Second Spectrum technology. Mental. 

I’ve just googled this……Big brother for football, not that I understood more than a couple of sentences.

[Lrrr]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Data is just that, data. Now I like data. But data doesn't tell you everything. Football is still a game that's full of randomness and emotions. 

Data might tell you that Sykes has made less runs than normal. It doesn't tell you why. But a good manager doesn't need data to tell him that Sykes has made less runs. He should just know that by what he sees with his eyes. 

Even Pep and Man City who have the best data available to them and Pep uses it himself, doesn't simply rely upon the data. 

The best managers have all that data in their head without the need of a spreadsheet to tell them it. 

Its very well documented and researched that coaches in sport can only recall something like 20% - 30% of a game after it, so how are coaches supposed to know everything about every player in any exact moment? Its simply not possible, when you're talking about match data, physical data etc there's just too much without other people feeding it into him or any head coach.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Lrrr

[Phileas Fogg]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Data is just that, data. Now I like data. But data doesn't tell you everything. Football is still a game that's full of randomness and emotions. 

Data might tell you that Sykes has made less runs than normal. It doesn't tell you why. But a good manager doesn't need data to tell him that Sykes has made less runs. He should just know that by what he sees with his eyes. 

Even Pep and Man City who have the best data available to them and Pep uses it himself, doesn't simply rely upon the data. 

The best managers have all that data in their head without the need of a spreadsheet to tell them it. 

Yeah, no one is disputing that. It's a tool to exploit. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Ark at ee’

Since when did Artcliffe befin with an H.  You must’ve been from the posh bit!

 

I was going to say Harrow, but your not wrong.

[Guest]

Just now, Countryfile said:

I was going to say Harrow, but you’re not wrong.

 

[Red Skin]

2 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

The fact it’s a load of nonsense?

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's nonsense. 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

Its very well documented and researched that coaches in sport can only recall something like 20% - 30% of a game after it

Pffft!

[Tomo]

9 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

I’ve just googled this……Big brother for football, not that I understood more than a couple of sentences.

There are many many AI software platforms out there. This is just one on them. Tracks everything....

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

So it makes the quote even worse then as the data showing we are in top doesn’t equate to wins?

However it can be a lagging indicator, provided that Manning is using the correct data.

That said, it's not like we are miles behind where we could be, a couple of points across 6 games maybe IMO.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Davefevs]

@Tomo at a recent Statsbomb conference they demo’d how AI / Machine Learning was being used in its infancy in Basketball, in particular spotting repeating patterns of play, e.g. a pick n roll between certain players to leave another player free.  So rather than a video analyst pouring over footage for hours on end, the computer was doing it for them.  They said it still took an incredibly powerful computer to run it.

[TheReds]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

No. What I'm saying is it should be a combination of things. So when making a sub it should be done on eyes, feelings and data. 

When talking about performances it should be the same. 

The fact he says he doesn't use any data at all for one thing but then relies upon it for something else is just a bit all over the place. 

You seem to be criticising your own criticisms!!

If he isn't using data for his subs then that means he is using his eyes doesn't it and a combination of other things, so what has he done wrong here exactly? You're saying he should be doing what you are suggesting, but he is already doing (if he isn't using data), then somehow criticising him for it.

If he is only using data for some things he isn't using it for everything, and you have said he shouldn't rely on data for everything.  He isn't.

You are criticising him for things that you have actually said he should be doing.

I think you are all over the place, not Manning (and I am certainly not saying I am convinced by him yet at all, but at least willing to give him some time).

Having to go massively out your way because you feel the need you "have to" criticise him. Very bizarre imo.

[formerly known as ivan]

22 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it's nonsense. 

The fact I have to sit there and watch what this data produces is an issue for me though

[harvey54]

3 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

"Data doesn’t give you points or change league positions, but what it does tell you is the direction you’re heading in and if you continue to create chances, and minimise the opposition, then you’ll win games."

Assuming this is a correct quote from Manning as it’s on the Bristol Live page. What waffle! Back to the days of measuring grass it would seem. Its nearly enough to make you want to tap out at this point.

Delete 'data'. 

Insert 'quality players'.

Kinda makes sense then. 

 

[formerly known as ivan]

1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 I listened to the press conference (rather than picking out a quote with no context from a printed summary) and I believe this was an answer directly to a question about data.. in which case, what else is he supposed to say in his answer?

 

Fair point

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

The fact I have to sit there and watch what this data produces is an issue for me though

The data doesn’t produce it….

[formerly known as ivan]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

The data doesn’t produce it….

So how are they using the data if that then doesn’t translate into performance? Genuine question 

edit: and is this “data” behind what many feel as either strange starting line ups or strange substitutions?

Edited December 16, 2023 by formerly known as ivan

[Tomo]

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Tomo at a recent Statsbomb conference they demo’d how AI / Machine Learning was being used in its infancy in Basketball, in particular spotting repeating patterns of play, e.g. a pick n roll between certain players to leave another player free.  So rather than a video analyst pouring over footage for hours on end, the computer was doing it for them.  They said it still took an incredibly powerful computer to run it.

Exactly that mate. It's crazy. Statsbomb, Second Spectrum, Stats Perform and many others are fighting for the AI contracts with television companies worldwide and then that filters down to club level of course. I understand that Man City Academy are already using Second Spectrum and have AI cameras at all games....

I am also a sucker for data and stats, but ultimately the most important stat is the scoreline after 90+ minutes.

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Tomo

[W-S-M Seagull]

21 minutes ago, TheReds said:

You seem to be criticising your own criticisms!!

If he isn't using data for his subs then that means he is using his eyes doesn't it and a combination of other things, so what has he done wrong here exactly? You're saying he should be doing what you are suggesting, but he is already doing (if he isn't using data), then somehow criticising him for it.

If he is only using data for some things he isn't using it for everything, and you have said he shouldn't rely on data for everything.  He isn't.

You are criticising him for things that you have actually said he should be doing.

I think you are all over the place, not Manning (and I am certainly not saying I am convinced by him yet at all, but at least willing to give him some time).

Having to go massively out your way because you feel the need you "have to" criticise him. Very bizarre imo.

No what's bizarre is that you're not undersmy point. 

I shall make it very clear. 

He attempted to use data to say "im not doing such a bad job as people think" 

In the same interview he then said he doesn't use data to make subs. 

I'm saying every single approach should include using different methods.

It really is very clear. 

[Numero Uno]

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

I think people are going to have to get used to his persona & personally can’t see the issue with this one at all.

He’s not Pearson in terms of what he says but he wasn’t picked by Lansdown & Tinnion for that.

Obvious but people will stop obsessing about this stuff if we start picking up more points, it will become a stick to beat him with if we don’t.

Simple for me. I won't be listening to him. Heard the post-Blackburn interview and that was more than enough for me. All I want him to do is get it right on the pitch, not in front of the mic and he can then talk whatever bollocks he likes to Ed Hadwin or whoever it is as far as I'm concerned. I appreciate not everyone feels that way.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

So how are they using the data if that then doesn’t translate into performance? Genuine question 

edit: and is this “data” behind what many feel as either strange starting line ups or strange substitutions?

The data is view of what has happened in the last, ie last game, last x games, etc.  It is helping to show what LM thinks is going well and what isn’t.

To take a really crude / made up example.

They night have a target of 20 shots per game.  Since he’s coming in they’re averaging 15 shots per game.  So it’s telling him they need more shots, they’re underachieving.  But it might also show that game by game, they’ve got 10,10,10,15,20,25.  He might read into that that the methods are embedding, game 4 was getting there, game 5 achieved and game 6 is proof of the method.

It will also show (which is probably what you mean - correct me if not) that it might drive what they try to do, ie the approach for the next game.

Again, very crude made up example.

We want 600 passes per game.  We are averaging 600 passes per game, but too many are in our own third and not hurting the opposition.  So it might influence the how we go about the next game, and work on being a bit more adventurous in the final third, taking a few more risks, etc.

As I’ve said, crude examples.  Better to have 5 good shots (e.g. total xg of 2.50) than 20 crap ones (total xg 1.00).

Its being used to help inform decisions.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[Cowshed]

3 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

"Data doesn’t give you points or change league positions, but what it does tell you is the direction you’re heading in and if you continue to create chances, and minimise the opposition, then you’ll win games."

Assuming this is a correct quote from Manning as it’s on the Bristol Live page. What waffle! Back to the days of measuring grass it would seem. Its nearly enough to make you want to tap out at this point.

Nigel Pearson used data to tell which direction payers were heading in, how fast, and how often - The GPS system catapult one the club use did that.

[Davefevs]

Just now, Cowshed said:

Nigel Pearson used data to tell which direction payers were heading in, how fast, and how often - The GPS system catapult one the club use did that.

I’m guessing when you say direction, you means towards “targets”, not NSEW?

[chinapig]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Its being used to help inform decisions.

Which is the point of analytics in any business. Quite why people think football should be an exception is a bit of a puzzle, especially since lots of other sports do the same.

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

I’m guessing when you say direction, you means towards “targets”, not NSEW?

Which zones of the pitch and how often, but these are direction. Catapult easily will tell you if you if players are staying N if you want them to, and importantly it can demonstrate to a player they are, or not. There is frequently a benefit here to using person centred communication styles as we learn differently .. You know all that.

[Abraham Romanovich]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’m guessing when you say direction, you means towards “targets”, not NSEW?

I have no idea what NSEW means so just googled it :-

"A random adventure taken by a person or people that are high or intoxicated that usually leads to accomplish absolutely nothing but can be quite entertaining and memorable."

Perhaps this is the way forward send them out half cut