Max O'Leary 1-0 Sunderland AFC

[Gimme Shelton]

I really do wonder if some people ever watch other keepers? Where did our goal come from today?

[Graham76]

50 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

18 shots, half of which were on target...but not one of Sunderland's shots were inside the 6 yard box and all those shots came to a paltry xG total of only 0.74 (early numbers).

So he was busy, very busy even, but none of those shots were actually particularly dangerous.

Still did his job well though. A good day at the office.

This is a good point as well. He managed the box well today.

Whats this sudden obsession with xG?  Max made some amazing saves today regardless of what xG suggests. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Graham76

[Maltshoveller]

The xg  thing is total crap

18 shots half on target xg .74 what ever rubbish that means

18 shots half on target = 0 goals is the only sat which matters

Coulda shoulda woulda counts for nothing

[steviestevieneville]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, that’s where post-shot-xg comes in handy.

Fair play Dave if like you people enjoy their stats . But, post xg ! Imo most stats in the game these days are ridiculous . Has most of it come into the game through football manager ? Genuinel question because I’m baffled by it.  
I can just imagine in my Sunday morning pub team back in the 90’s . Well played lads , great win but our xg was down this week. He would of been debagged & dragged through the mud  

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Graham76 said:

Whats this sudden obsession with xG?  Max made some amazing saves today regardless of what xG suggests. 

There’s no obsession, it’s a well-used piece of data used up and down football.

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Good enough for this level despite what a lot of people think

I think people have said pretty similar to me - that his shot stopping is not in doubt, it’s decision making and distribution where there are question marks. 
 

Definite MOM today but in the last game he was correctly getting pelters for his kicking - this isn’t an “I told you so” moment that solves that issue!

[ChippenhamRed]

I wasn’t at the match today but great to hear he had a superb game.

What I would say is, one excellent game alone doesn’t suddenly end the conversation about whether he is good enough in the long term to help take us to the next level, any more than one poor game would suddenly mean he isn’t good enough.

Which is why smug “not good enough for this level apparently” type comments on here aren’t as clever as people think they are. We all know he is capable of outstanding performances and he has always been a great shot stopper.

It’s about whether he is consistently at the required level across a 46 game season. I’m still to be convinced on that, but neither have I made my mind up.

[And Its Smith]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think people have said pretty similar to me - that his shot stopping is not in doubt, it’s decision making and distribution where there are question marks. 
 

Definite MOM today but in the last game he was correctly getting pelters for his kicking - this isn’t an “I told you so” moment that solves that issue!

No I told you.  It’s one game.  But he is good enough for this level.  

[Davefevs]

Just now, steviestevieneville said:

Fair play Dave if like you people enjoy their stats . But, post xg ! Imo most stats in the game these days are ridiculous . Has most of it come into the game through football manager ? Genuinel question because I’m baffled by it.  
I can just imagine in my Sunday morning pub team back in the 90’s . Well played lads , great win but our xg was down this week. He would of been debagged & dragged through the mud  

All it’s done is give a bit more of a numerical evaluation to subjective comments like “that was a gilt-edged chance”, “he’s got to score from there”, “the keeper has had a blinder today”, etc.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/04/08/the-roots-of-expected-goals-xg-and-its-journey-from-nerd-nonsense-to-the-mainstream/
 

I don’t tend to use it in everyday football conversation, ie I never say to Joe or the bloke on the other side of me, “blimey, that was a 0.12 xg chance”, but it can be useful to debate in written forums.

It ain’t for everyone, granted.

[robin_unreliant]

I also thought young Tanner defended very well against Clarke, one of their best attackers. Had a solid game, despite some of the stick he gets on this forum.

[hertsexile]

Just now, And Its Smith said:

No I told you.  It’s one game.  But he is good enough for this level.  

Max is as good as any goalkeeper in the championship. Plus he is one of our own. So give him a break outstanding today and commands his area well unlike other keepers. 
Max is our number one so live with it 

[frenchred]

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

No I told you.  It’s one game.  But he is good enough for this level.  

He's really not!

When we talk about "this level" it's elite level there are a lot more steps below us than up!

He is not good enough, he is not elite level and I doubt he would get I'm many (if any) teams "this level"

[Charlie BCFC]

Gets far too much stick, think a lot of what he did with how he deals with crosses he does most weeks but that save from the O’Nien header was incredible. Also want to point out that I think his kicking has been a lot better in recent weeks

[frenchred]

Just now, hertsexile said:

Max is as good as any goalkeeper in the championship. Plus he is one of our own. So give him a break outstanding today and commands his area well unlike other keepers. 
Max is our number one so live with it 

Wow

Do we really watch the same games?

[Dollymarie]

1 hour ago, Ghost Rider said:

Not a huge fan of Max, but, credit where it’s due, he had a corker today. 

Exactly this. Well done Max  

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I also thought young Tanner defended very well against Clarke, one of their best attackers. Had a solid game, despite some of the stick he gets on this forum.

Yep, tweeted the same.

 

As for Max, he’s not the best in the Champ, he’s not the worst.  He’s kinda mid-table(ish).  Their keeper, highly rated, England u21 cap, stuffed up twice for our goal, first the pass, then fouling TGH.

[joe jordans teeth]

1 hour ago, ExiledAjax said:

18 shots, half of which were on target...but not one of Sunderland's shots were inside the 6 yard box and all those shots came to a paltry xG total of only 0.74 (early numbers).

So he was busy, very busy even, but none of those shots were actually particularly dangerous.

Still did his job well though. A good day at the office.

This is a good point as well. He managed the box well today.

Don’t talk stats because some won’t like it 

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Well played Max.  Take the OTIB plaudits tonight

Yes he deserves what ever comes his way tonight. What a save that was from the header. The goal line tech picture really highlights that. 
 

My personal opinion is Max is a very good goalkeeper with nearly a hundred appearances under his belt.

Why some still have to have a nibble at the boy at every opportunity gets on my ******* tits!

Edited December 16, 2023 by REDOXO

[Robbored]

21 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Iit’s a well-used piece of data used up and down football.

It’s also horses for courses Dave. Some, like yourself find in depth analysis of match stats fascinating whereas others like Stevie and to a degree, myself find them far from fascinating and listening LM he has a similar opinion on statistical information as Stevie and I do.

 

[Leabrook]

19 minutes ago, hertsexile said:

Max is as good as any goalkeeper in the championship. Plus he is one of our own. So give him a break outstanding today and commands his area well unlike other keepers. 
Max is our number one so live with it 

I think you misunderstood what TIS is saying.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, Robbored said:

It’s also horses for courses Dave. Some, like yourself find in depth analysis of match stats fascinating whereas others like Stevie and to a degree, myself find them far from fascinating and listening LM he has a similar opinion on statistical information as Stevie and I do.

 

It doesn’t matter whether you find them fascinating or boring as f+#k, if you take possession as you did to give an indication of who stuffed who, you’ll often reach the wrong conclusions.

And if you think Liam Manning isn’t well into his data you’ll be wrong.  Data will form a huge part of his analysis.

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Yes he deserves what ever comes his way tonight. What a save that was from the header. The goal one tech picture really highlights that. 
 

My personal opinion is Max is a very good goalkeeper with nearly a hundred appearances under his belt.

Why some still have to have a nibble at the boy at every opportunity gets on my ******* tits!

He showed very parts of good goalkeeping today from shot stopping to dominating his box. It was a top performance.

His distribution has been criticised at times and twice to today he had the opportunity to drop kick the ball up to Conway as he  started making a run but either Max didn’t see him or chose to take a safer option.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Robbored

[steviestevieneville]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

All it’s done is give a bit more of a numerical evaluation to subjective comments like “that was a gilt-edged chance”, “he’s got to score from there”, “the keeper has had a blinder today”, etc.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2020/04/08/the-roots-of-expected-goals-xg-and-its-journey-from-nerd-nonsense-to-the-mainstream/
 

I don’t tend to use it in everyday football conversation, ie I never say to Joe or the bloke on the other side of me, “blimey, that was a 0.12 xg chance”, but it can be useful to debate in written forums.

It ain’t for everyone, granted.

Apologies as I haven’t clicked on the link . In basic layman’s terms if possible , how is it calculated. Can we take cornick one on one today . Now that’s not what I would call a sitter but at that level I’d expect a striker to score .

[steviestevieneville]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It doesn’t matter whether you find them fascinating or boring as f+#k, if you take possession as you did to give an indication of who stuffed who, you’ll often reach the wrong conclusions.

And if you think Liam Manning isn’t well into his data you’ll be wrong.  Data will form a huge part of his analysis.

Possession stats are the worst imo . Martins,  Swansea side last season would take 5 minutes to get out of their half . Could get dispossessed 3 times , lose 3-0 but have 80% possession . Which means how you use possession is pivotal . So the actual possession stat is meaningless in that scenario . 

[formerly known as ivan]

2 hours ago, The Nest Egg said:

Outstanding performance, one of his very best 

Massive critic of his but he was outstanding that second half

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Apologies as I haven’t clicked on the link . In basic layman’s terms if possible , how is it calculated. Can we take cornick one on one today . Now that’s not what I would call a sitter but at that level I’d expect a striker to score .

It was a Bas moment! 

[glynriley]

That save in the second half, I turned to my mate and said that’s ‘David Seaman’ esque. That’s why I’ve said on another thread, for me, today’s win is all about the players.. Every single one put in a shift, even Anis…

[steviestevieneville]

1 minute ago, REDOXO said:

It was a Bas moment! 

I think bas’s xg would of been in the minus 

[Robbored]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It doesn’t matter whether you find them fascinating or boring as f+#k, if you take possession as you did to give an indication of who stuffed who, you’ll often reach the wrong conclusions.

And if you think Liam Manning isn’t well into his data you’ll be wrong.  Data will form a huge part of his analysis.

Not according to him Dave. He thinks that too much statistical information can be a confusing hindrance. Listening to him he gives me the impression that he’s concentrates far more on tactical variables - something he refers to in pretty much every interview so far.

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Apologies as I haven’t clicked on the link . In basic layman’s terms if possible , how is it calculated. Can we take cornick one on one today . Now that’s not what I would call a sitter but at that level I’d expect a striker to score .

It calculated the likelihood of scoring from a shot.  Between 0 and 1.

A penalty is 0.74 (74 out of 100 are scored).

It takes lots of factors into account, e.g. position of shot, goalkeeper, defenders, header or foot, etc,

The penalty is the simplest, as the position is fixed.

Cornicks won’t even register on xG as he didn’t actually have a shot