Are Aston Villa overreacting to so called abuse of Watkins?

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, BCFC Rich said:

Mr P, you are one of my fav posters, but on this occasion, I think it might be more about your feelings about Villa + their fans than this actually being an issue. 

It seems like a club backing their player when he has received abuse. To be honest something I would like to see our club do in similar circumstances.  Not 100% sure what the abuse was and how significant, but doesn't really matter - it was enough to get an emotional response from the player (one who is particularly important to the club) and it makes sense to come out in support of that player. 

Thanks..I think. I'll admit I don't particularly like Aston Villa and think their fans are rather arrogant and entitled yeah.

The way I see it to some extent Rich is perhaps not ideal but player receives flak and gives it back when he scores. Anyway I assume it would have been reported to stewards or similar during the game if that bad.

11 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Nobody has claimed it was racist. He quashed that suggestion immediately. 

It doesn't mean it wasn't vile or unacceptable. 

Isn't a lot of stick subjective or hasn't it been historically so, in a football context? Feels like Aston Villa are cry babies to me.

Quite sure he'll get a lot more flak in the future now from Brentford fans but time will tell. Some players thrive on it...Not necessarily unacceptable flak but routine football stuff.

[TV Tom]

Giving players stick has gone on for ever and a day, who can remember Stanley Bowles when at QPR in the '70s after his missus had ran off with someone else and the whole EE singing to him about her running off with the milkman !!!

[johnbytheriver]

Bill Shakespeare asked to comment after the match said  "it was much ado about nothing" he further commented " we won the game so all's well that ends well.

[SecretSam]

It's an interesting debate. Footballers and officials get a dog's abuse sometimes, yet if they give some back, everyone goes nuts. Watkins was clearly directing it at one particular fan; fair play to him. 

All clubs - us included - have dished out plenty in the recent and long-gone past to players, etc. Can't say I'd want to be on the end of it...maybe this is the first step in addressing this? Perhaps in the same way that racist abuse was pretty common back in the early '80s, when I started going to games regularly. Now, it's just nothing like it was (in the UK, at least).

Watkins' BBC interview afterwards was excellent, seems a smart young man, and was clearly upset by the grief he got, and pleased to give some back. 

It's interesting how we all become different people on a terrace; I used to give Gabbiadini some terrible stick when he played against us; but many years ago, he moved in opposite some friends', and I really felt I ought to pop over and apologise. 

End of the day, they're just people, understandably they get upset. Interesting to see where this goes.

[Super]

10 hours ago, Edgy Red said:

I'm sorry Mr P but i have to disagree. My mate is a season ticket holder in the North Stand at Villa Park and i go to a few matches each season with him. Villa fans are a decent bunch and they are a proper club.

I know there was a bit of beef with Lee Johnson when we played there, but i'm not sure Villa did much wrong.

Just someone trying to create some kind of rivalry with them.

[bredwood]

18 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

It's an interesting debate. Footballers and officials get a dog's abuse sometimes, yet if they give some back, everyone goes nuts. Watkins was clearly directing it at one particular fan; fair play to him. 

I remember my Dad telling me that in a game at Ashton Gate in the 1950s some player jumped over the fence at Crackers Corner to sort out a guy who'd been giving him abuse all game. Not sure who it was but that's one way players used to deal with it back then.

[CodeRed]

2 hours ago, TV Tom said:

Giving players stick has gone on for ever and a day, who can remember Stanley Bowles when at QPR in the '70s after his missus had ran off with someone else and the whole EE singing to him about her running off with the milkman !!!

Yes, we've dished it out as well,  remember Jamie Cureton ?  So bad he didn't reappear for the second half .

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by CodeRed

[Mr Popodopolous]

People I assume get firstly a warning, then a final warning probably and then ejected if they go persistently overboard (not talking racism etc which would obviously constitute an instant ejection and probably arrest).

This seems not to have happened in this case which is curious.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[phantom]

16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

No particular issue with Watkins perse, not racism so what a load of crap from Aston Villa however.

All they have done is stand with one of their players, completely the correct thing from the club

16 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Brentford fans were fighting over it as it was so out of order and some fans walked out as they were disgusted with the abuse he was getting.   I don’t see an issue with a club tweeting its support. Sounds like it was bad 

The lad was shouting abuse about his young child, and yeah Brentford supporters were disgusted with the vile abuse too

16 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think Aston Villa and their fans have arrogance in abundance sanctimonious in general tbh. Not many clubs I dislike more.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13032896/ollie-watkins-celebration-personal-abuse-behind-reaction-to-scoring-aston-villa-winner-at-brentford-says-striker

Being from Weston I have lots of friends that are Villa fans, and a close friend I hang out with is a lifelong Villa fan too. Yeah they pipe on about 1982 like it was yesterday, and like Leeds, Newcastle etc they have this belief that they are better than they actually are / have the best fans / best grounds etc, but that is just being passionate about their club

Don't get me started on the excitement about possibly being top of the league on Christmas Day, I'm spending the day at a house of Villa fans so wish me luck - though at least we have a common dislike for all things Small Heath

My point is their support is no worse than any others around the game, you only have to look North of the river to see how people are above their station

15 hours ago, East End Old Boy said:

Atmosphere must have been pretty crap if he could hear the constant abuse?

Have you ever sat close to the pitch at a game?

I'm sure those that sit in the South Stand behind the goal will tell you how easy it is to get your voice heard. 

15 hours ago, Natchfever said:

He didnt seem bothered and came across well so not sure why Villa are making a thing of it.

It's called being a professional

14 hours ago, chinapig said:

But he did say it was constant abuse to do with his family, hence his angry response to the fan doing it. Whether that is acceptable and should be shrugged off may be a matter of opinion. I certainly wouldn't accept it if I was a player.

All too often fans want to dish it out but start clutching their pearls if they get it back.

Spot on, it was a bitter fan making comments about his new born child etc, shame his fellow fans didn't give him a slap

14 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

No problem with Watkins giving it back when he scored tbh.

He hardly "gave it back" though did he, he stood still then pointed the guy out

It's not like he's ranted etc to the fan

Personally think Ollie Watkins and Aston Villa come out with this with massive praise

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

People get firstly a warning, then a final warming probably and then ejected if they go persistently overboard (not talking racism etc which would obviously constitute an instant ejection and probably arrest).

This seems not to have happened in this case which is curious.

Never heard of this before, certainly nothing ever mentioned at AG8

[Sixtyseconds]

27 minutes ago, phantom said:

All they have done is stand with one of their players, completely the correct thing from the club

The lad was shouting abuse about his young child, and yeah Brentford supporters were disgusted with the vile abuse too

Being from Weston I have lots of friends that are Villa fans, and a close friend I hang out with is a lifelong Villa fan too. Yeah they pipe on about 1982 like it was yesterday, and like Leeds, Newcastle etc they have this belief that they are better than they actually are / have the best fans / best grounds etc, but that is just being passionate about their club

Don't get me started on the excitement about possibly being top of the league on Christmas Day, I'm spending the day at a house of Villa fans so wish me luck - though at least we have a common dislike for all things Small Heath

My point is their support is no worse than any others around the game, you only have to look North of the river to see how people are above their station

Have you ever sat close to the pitch at a game?

I'm sure those that sit in the South Stand behind the goal will tell you how easy it is to get your voice heard. 

It's called being a professional

Spot on, it was a bitter fan making comments about his new born child etc, shame his fellow fans didn't give him a slap

He hardly "gave it back" though did he, he stood still then pointed the guy out

It's not like he's ranted etc to the fan

Personally think Ollie Watkins and Aston Villa come out with this with massive praise

Never heard of this before, certainly nothing ever mentioned at AG8

Ex YSC.

Interesting chants.

Dished it out a lot.

 

 

 

[BanburyRed]

Football club supports player in foul mouthed fan abuse shocker.

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, BanburyRed said:

Football club supports player in foul mouthed fan abuse shocker.

He'll get a lot more when he faces Brentford in the future, would be my prediction.

Although Brentford fans are known to be fairly placid.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

All they have done is stand with one of their players, completely the correct thing from the club

The lad was shouting abuse about his young child, and yeah Brentford supporters were disgusted with the vile abuse too

Being from Weston I have lots of friends that are Villa fans, and a close friend I hang out with is a lifelong Villa fan too. Yeah they pipe on about 1982 like it was yesterday, and like Leeds, Newcastle etc they have this belief that they are better than they actually are / have the best fans / best grounds etc, but that is just being passionate about their club

Don't get me started on the excitement about possibly being top of the league on Christmas Day, I'm spending the day at a house of Villa fans so wish me luck - though at least we have a common dislike for all things Small Heath

My point is their support is no worse than any others around the game, you only have to look North of the river to see how people are above their station

Have you ever sat close to the pitch at a game?

I'm sure those that sit in the South Stand behind the goal will tell you how easy it is to get your voice heard. 

It's called being a professional

Spot on, it was a bitter fan making comments about his new born child etc, shame his fellow fans didn't give him a slap

He hardly "gave it back" though did he, he stood still then pointed the guy out

It's not like he's ranted etc to the fan

Personally think Ollie Watkins and Aston Villa come out with this with massive praise

Never heard of this before, certainly nothing ever mentioned at AG8

Perhaps they should release a transcript if it is so bad.

Seems to have split opinion among Brentford fans, don't agree with abuse of family though. Albeit it isn't unheard of in football.

Perhaps RL and forums differ then as reading social media and their forums, they come across as sanctimonious and arrogant, insufferable and so forth.

Aston Villa and their fans strike me as a classic example of being able to give it out but not take it.

Clearly there are lines and boundaries but they seem a bit precious really, saw a video clip of Maupay and significant abuse of Mee by them also reported.

I certainly hope they come down with the Christmas decorations in 2024, they're insufferable already.

No particular issue with Watkins perse tbh. Had he given some back I'd have been the first to defend him too.

That last bit was speculation but I am surprised it wasn't reported or flagged to a steward, indeed if it was causing a problem in the stands that scenario is absolutely ripe for stewards, security and if needed police to get involved in.

Fair bit that doesn't add up really- a transcript and video footage would prove the matter either way.

[Mr Popodopolous]

https://www.villatalk.com/topic/19935-brentford/page/41/

Granted fans are biased but Villatalk and probably the same on their other forum, can give it but can't take it a lot of them.

[redkev]

41 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Perhaps they should release a transcript if it is so bad.

Seems to have split opinion among Brentford fans, don't agree with abuse of family though. Albeit it isn't unheard of in football.

Perhaps RL and forums differ then as reading social media and their forums, they come across as sanctimonious and arrogant, insufferable and so forth.

Aston Villa and their fans strike me as a classic example of being able to give it out but not take it.

Clearly there are lines and boundaries but they seem a bit precious really, saw a video clip of Maupay and significant abuse of Mee by them also reported.

I certainly hope they come down with the Christmas decorations in 2024, they're insufferable already.

No particular issue with Watkins perse tbh. Had he given some back I'd have been the first to defend him too.

That last bit was speculation but I am surprised it wasn't reported or flagged to a steward, indeed if it was causing a problem in the stands that scenario is absolutely ripe for stewards, security and if needed police to get involved in.

Fair bit that doesn't add up really- a transcript and video footage would prove the matter either way.

I have personally hurled a few words at players before , but only the usual banter types after they have scored , faked injury the usual scenarios but never Racist or family , must admit I use to cringe with the Holloway chant about his kids one step to far for me ( use to the hate the bloke when he played for them mind ) also I have no problem players giving it back , people do my head in when they hurl abuse / banter etc for 90 mins then the second a player does something back there off running to the nearest steward / copper

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, redkev said:

I have personally hurled a few words at players before , but only the usual banter types after they have scored , faked injury the usual scenarios but never Racist or family , must admit I use to cringe with the Holloway chant about his kids one step to far for me ( use to the hate the bloke when he played for them mind ) also I have no problem players giving it back , people do my head in when they hurl abuse / banter etc for 90 mins then the second a player does something back there off running to the nearest steward / copper

The Holloway chant about his kids was unacceptable without doubt, likewise anything racist, homophobic etc.

Although, was it a Police matter ever? This is where it diverges somewhat.

Agree, if fans give it out when the player rams it back after scoring then it's to be expected, the norm. Likewise if a player inflames opposition fans without provocation, sure it can occur but their card will be marked somewhat.

[Maltshoveller]

For me it is part of the game

Give players stick but dont cross the line

also dont cry about it if that player then scores and throws it back in your face

 

Just wish both fans and players alike were not so ducking sensitive/precious 

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 hours ago, Super said:

Just someone trying to create some kind of rivalry with them.

Maybe subconsciously but tbh Aston Villa do come across as sanctimonious tossers and perhaps a bit hypocritical too.

The fact that non racist abuse was referred to the police could be a watershed moment and while I see Villa as pathetic for it, it is worthy of debate IMO.

[phantom]

I hate to say Mr P, from this thread it reads that you have an issue with Villa supporters, there's nothing else really to see here

[Mr Popodopolous]

Well okay I'll try a bit constructive Phantom. I see them as a fairly arrogant club who are easy to dislike. They're spawny and their fans across social media etc.

That aside though, does this Police Investigation set a dangerous precedent? Without a transcript it's impossible to say but it seems like a waste of police resources frankly, on the face of it.

[redsocks]

It seems on here our fans don't seem to have a problem with villa apart mr p.i my self have a season ticket at city and like villa as I have supported them since the late 70s as that was my first away game with city.i have never had a problem with their supporters and its nice to see someone else doing well in the prem.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Each to their own eh redsocks, I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum but maybe I am, who remembers their fans and Championship arrogance.

I don't wish them well at all, nothing like the Leicester story.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsocks]

Its not a Leicester story mr p.if they do well this year its because they have a top manager and a good team.they deserve to be we're they are.do you support another team.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Do I support another side, Redsocks?

Bristol City and England for me..Well I have a couple of other nationalities so obviously when they aren't playing England I don't mind them winning.

Club level though, nope.

Clearly Aston Villa are a good side, presently well run and Unai Emery top is a top manager/coach. However their fans are arrogant, sanctimonious, bang on about other clubs and their apparent FFP while disregarding a key foundation to their success, bit holier than thou maybe. 

Their club are little better given the moaning over Watkins.

Leicester was a precipitous rise, Aston Villa though have shelled out loads..making the most of it at last but seem quite freespending.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsocks]

Every top team in the prem has spent loads to achieve we're their at.villa have spent well and are we're they are because they deserve to.if city every got to the prem we would have to spend to stay their but unfortunately we will never achieve that dream because lansdown won't spend the money.hes quite happy to be a average championship side.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Are you an Aston Villa fan of some kind, Redsocks? I cannot understand why you're defending them so much but each to their own.

Used dodgy means to get up in 2019, a fortunate Accident of Geography, Public Money and access to the HS2 Committee. 

Arrogance from top to bottom tbh.

Grealish falls over after a light breeze too. You can tell he started his career there. Dean Smith was a good fit for them.

[redsocks]

Yes iam Mr p.a lot of supporters have a 2nd team mine is villa.a lot of our supporters either like Liverpool or man utd because of of we're they are in the league.if that's what you feel for villa is your choice.

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fair enough Redsocks, but for me something negative about them I just can't shake.

I suppose Aston Villa are more authentic and less bandwagon jumping than those 2 glory clubs who attract many plastic fans due to long periods of success.

[redsocks]

I have supported villa for over 40 years and city all my life.i wish one day we could be In could be up their in the prem.i have been lucky to see city In the top league.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fair yeah, some people like 2 sides for fsmily reasons, work any range really.

Yes it would be nice but them complaining about abuse to the police, depending on what precisely was said...I dunno it seems unnecessary to me although a transcript would clear it up for everyone.