Are Aston Villa overreacting to so called abuse of Watkins?

[redsocks]

It's something what got out of hand.it must of been something not nice for watkins to react how he did.i think it was brentford supporters who reported this guy plus the TV cameras picked it up.it happens all the time look what happened to vardy v city this year.

[TheReds]

Abuse all game from one fan, crowd fights, actual fans walking out in disgust, so why isn't there multiple videos on here of all of this? There must be multiple videos from multiple people capturing all of it seeing as it was sustained through the whole game?  

My guess is "all game" means a couple of times in 90 minutes. 

Villas statement says "investigate this incident", wouldn't that mean it happened once, or is it a 90 minute incident?

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, redsocks said:

It's something what got out of hand.it must of been something not nice for watkins to react how he did.i think it was brentford supporters who reported this guy plus the TV cameras picked it up.it happens all the time look what happened to vardy v city this year.

Vardy often gets flak by opposition fans tbh, he's one of those players who attracts it via his actions.

Thrives off it too, Watkins doesn't seem like that kinda player.

As for Vardy he will get it worse at Ashton Gate owing to his conduct up there I suspect.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Abuse all game from one fan, crowd fights, actual fans walking out in disgust, so why isn't there multiple videos on here of all of this? There must be multiple videos from multiple people capturing all of it seeing as it was sustained through the whole game?  

My guess is "all game" means a couple of times in 90 minutes. 

Villas statement says "investigate this incident", wouldn't that mean it happened once, or is it a 90 minute incident?

Exactly. Good points.

It doesn't fully stack, does it?

Fights in the crowd, that's notable and newsworthy. Arguments maybe not so much.

There should be multiple videos over the internet, stewards and police should have got involved and ejected the individual in question if it was as bad as Jackanorys at Villa Park claim.

[redsocks]

Well Mr p this is going nowhere you obviously hate villa which is your choice.hope one day you might change your opinion.on to Friday coyr.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Agree to disagree eh Redsocks but the claims sound suspect to me, unless and until concrete proof released.

Yes here's hoping for an early Christmas present v Hull, Coyr.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[redkev]

City for me , then England that’s it , I have mixed nationality parents but am 100% Bristolian & English end of 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Fair yeah, some people like 2 sides for fsmily reasons, work any range really.

Yes it would be nice but them complaining about abuse to the police, depending on what precisely was said...I dunno it seems unnecessary to me although a transcript would clear it up for everyone.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to see a transcript? 

Those involved know what was said, it certainly doesn't need to be made public just because someone doesn't like Villa supporters, when you say "clear it up for everyone" you're the only person persistently posting about it 

For information the police contacted Villa, there was no complaining done by the club. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, phantom said:

I'm not sure why you feel the need to see a transcript? 

Those involved know what was said, it certainly doesn't need to be made public just because someone doesn't like Villa supporters, when you say "clear it up for everyone" you're the only person persistently posting about it 

For information the police contacted Villa, there was no complaining done by the club. 

The way it was reported, Aston Villa made a complaint I thought?

Well it all seems a bit silly on the face of it making it a Police issue IMO.

I wouldn't say I dislike Aston Villa supporters verbatim but they do seem a rather arrogant bunch or indeed that the club are an arrogant club.

[redkev]

7 hours ago, phantom said:

All they have done is stand with one of their players, completely the correct thing from the club

The lad was shouting abuse about his young child, and yeah Brentford supporters were disgusted with the vile abuse too

Being from Weston I have lots of friends that are Villa fans, and a close friend I hang out with is a lifelong Villa fan too. Yeah they pipe on about 1982 like it was yesterday, and like Leeds, Newcastle etc they have this belief that they are better than they actually are / have the best fans / best grounds etc, but that is just being passionate about their club

Don't get me started on the excitement about possibly being top of the league on Christmas Day, I'm spending the day at a house of Villa fans so wish me luck - though at least we have a common dislike for all things Small Heath

My point is their support is no worse than any others around the game, you only have to look North of the river to see how people are above their station

Have you ever sat close to the pitch at a game?

I'm sure those that sit in the South Stand behind the goal will tell you how easy it is to get your voice heard. 

It's called being a professional

Spot on, it was a bitter fan making comments about his new born child etc, shame his fellow fans didn't give him a slap

He hardly "gave it back" though did he, he stood still then pointed the guy out

It's not like he's ranted etc to the fan

Personally think Ollie Watkins and Aston Villa come out with this with massive praise

Never heard of this before, certainly nothing ever mentioned at AG8

Being a Weston lad then phantom what is the % city to Rovers , I believe it’s more city now due to many people from south Bristol moving down to west wick Worle & St George’s over the last few years , when I was a lad and visiting Weston ( mods , punks ,skins etc bank holidays days  ) always had the impression it was heavily gas .

[TheReds]

14 minutes ago, phantom said:

I'm not sure why you feel the need to see a transcript? 

Those involved know what was said, it certainly doesn't need to be made public just because someone doesn't like Villa supporters, when you say "clear it up for everyone" you're the only person persistently posting about it 

For information the police contacted Villa, there was no complaining done by the club. 

Surely the way it has been reported including on their podcast, then people should at least be told exactly what has happened with some actual evidence. They are saying it's disgusting abuse that lasted for 90 minutes, that had fans fighting etc. 

When a City fan got accused of abusing one of our own supporters (by the Gas liar) everyone seemed to want evidence and proof.

The statement from Villa states they asked Authorities to investigate, not the other way around. So where are you getting your information from exactly? Villa are saying one thing and you are saying another.

I wouldn't mind seeing exactly what happened just to see how much has actually been added to the actual event, to the story of a full game of horrendous abuse and fans fighting, walkouts etc.

[Mr Popodopolous]

15 minutes ago, TheReds said:

Surely the way it has been reported including on their podcast, then people should at least be told exactly what has happened with some actual evidence. They are saying it's disgusting abuse that lasted for 90 minutes, that had fans fighting etc. 

When a City fan got accused of abusing one of our own supporters (by the Gas liar) everyone seemed to want evidence and proof.

The statement from Villa states they asked Authorities to investigate, not the other way around. So where are you getting your information from exactly? Villa are saying one thing and you are saying another.

I wouldn't mind seeing exactly what happened just to see how much has actually been added to the actual event, to the story of a full game of horrendous abuse and fans fighting, walkouts etc.

Exactly right, agreed.

Mountains and molehills spring to mind on the limited evidence we have so far and if reporting is inaccurate well..

"Aston Villa FC wants to express its support for Ollie Watkins and with the utmost respect for the big majority of Brentford fans and for the club, we ask the authorities to investigate this incident to find this individual. Zero tolerance to abuse in football."

By the authorities I assume they mean the Met.

Maupay and Mee albeit the latter for very valid reasons took some flak from Aston Villa fans, however that's fine.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[phantom]

1 hour ago, redkev said:

Being a Weston lad then phantom what is the % city to Rovers , I believe it’s more city now due to many people from south Bristol moving down to west wick Worle & St George’s over the last few years , when I was a lad and visiting Weston ( mods , punks ,skins etc bank holidays days  ) always had the impression it was heavily gas .

There's very little visible evidence of Rovers fans around now, the vast majority are elder supporters who have been with the team for years. 

I'd say I know less than five supporters under the age of 40.

One thing they do have is an active supporters club branch in the town that I've always been envious of. They organise away travel and various functions 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, TheReds said:

Surely the way it has been reported including on their podcast, then people should at least be told exactly what has happened with some actual evidence. They are saying it's disgusting abuse that lasted for 90 minutes, that had fans fighting etc. 

When a City fan got accused of abusing one of our own supporters (by the Gas liar) everyone seemed to want evidence and proof.

The statement from Villa states they asked Authorities to investigate, not the other way around. So where are you getting your information from exactly? Villa are saying one thing and you are saying another.

I wouldn't mind seeing exactly what happened just to see how much has actually been added to the actual event, to the story of a full game of horrendous abuse and fans fighting, walkouts etc.

You mention two completely different scenarios, one was completely fabricated by some Rovers fantasist the other actually happened. 

You are mixing up your information, between the police etc

Information will come public but everything takes time before being made public 

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Exactly right, agreed.

Mountains and molehills spring to mind on the limited evidence we have so far and if reporting is inaccurate well..

"Aston Villa FC wants to express its support for Ollie Watkins and with the utmost respect for the big majority of Brentford fans and for the club, we ask the authorities to investigate this incident to find this individual. Zero tolerance to abuse in football."

By the authorities I assume they mean the Met.

Maupay and Mee albeit the latter for very valid reasons took some flak from Aston Villa fans, however that's fine.

The only person making a mountain out of a mole hill is you, by continually going on about it, and that was days after it actually happened 

In this thread you've bounced between the Ollie Watkins incident and then calling their fanbase arrogant etc. 

Two completely unconnected things. 

I'm struggling to get my head around what your actual issue is? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, phantom said:

The only person making a mountain out of a mole hill is you, by continually going on about it, and that was days after it actually happened 

In this thread you've bounced between the Ollie Watkins incident and then calling their fanbase arrogant etc. 

Two completely unconnected things. 

I'm struggling to get my head around what your actual issue is? 

My overall issue is that, on the face of it Aston Villa referring it to the police is nonsense..IMO.

Waste of police time and resources, and it feeds into the sense of entitlement at that club.

If there is much more to come out, well time will tell.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I suppose too on my part, it's an instinctive anger combined with my antipathy towards Aston Villa, towards the continued gentrification of the game continuing apace.

The fact that Aston Villa are the whinging  aggrieved party is an unfortunate coincidence but doesn't come as a huge surprise to me.

[Mr Popodopolous]

One very last point.

The chanting about Sane's mother at Ashton Gate.

I don't condone it but I don't recall reports to the police.

Not that long ago either, just under 6 years ago.

[MarcusX]

On 20/12/2023 at 15:02, Mr Popodopolous said:

20 years ago would it have been a notable issue?

It seems a bit unprecedented for this..how much flak do Vardy and Sharp get?

Is that really a gauge of whether it’s acceptable? It was ok 20 years ago? Or am I misunderstanding?

Within the last 20 years I’ve heard the derogatory chants about rather being something other than a “taff”, and chants about Aberfan.

Luckily society has generally improved. I don’t think racism is the only thing off the table when it comes to abusing players. Why do they need to be abused anyway?

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Is that really a gauge of whether it’s acceptable? It was ok 20 years ago? Or am I misunderstanding?

Within the last 20 years I’ve heard the derogatory chants about rather being something other than a “taff”, and chants about Aberfan.

Luckily society has generally improved. I don’t think racism is the only thing off the table when it comes to abusing players. Why do they need to be abused anyway?

Society has improved yeah.

Is Aberfan chanting really that recent?? I assumed it was further back than that- disgraceful at any time but not so recent. The other bit than a "taff" likewise also.

It is a bit of a kickback against sanitisation on my part too. Doesn't it rather depend on the action of the player up to a point...it does raise an interesting wider debate as to what and where the line should be.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Mr Popodopolous]

Final final bit. Apologies for posting the link but as I understand it Sane got pelters in 2018 here.

Did Man City or Sane call in the police? Early 2018 is barely that long ago either.

Am not altogether sure how persistent it was, it was a minority but it was seemingly audible. Benchmark or precedent?

 

The first is more normal football stuff.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[MarcusX]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Society has improved yeah.

Is Aberfan chanting really that recent?? I assumed it was further back than that- disgraceful at any time but not so recent. The other bit than a "taff" likewise also.

It is a bit of a kickback against sanitisation on my part too. Doesn't it rather depend on the action of the player up to a point...it does raise an interesting wider debate as to what and where the line should be.

I think it’s last 20 years as I’ve only been going around 25 years, so maybe a little over? I’ve definitely heard it away at Cardiff for example. Not recently though.

As for players, yes there probably are some who give it out and therefore it’s fair to give some back - but is celebrating in-front of a crowd enough to get overly personal? Probably not really.

For the Sane comparison, until we know what’s actually been said to Watkins it’s not the same comparison - but the second chant is just weird.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

I think it’s last 20 years as I’ve only been going around 25 years, so maybe a little over? I’ve definitely heard it away at Cardiff for example. Not recently though.

As for players, yes there probably are some who give it out and therefore it’s fair to give some back - but is celebrating in-front of a crowd enough to get overly personal? Probably not really.

For the Sane comparison, until we know what’s actually been said to Watkins it’s not the same comparison - but the second chant is just weird.

Not been to Cardiff away tbh so I can't comment too far, been to lots of Home games vs them since the late 1990s. Wrong either way at any time.

Case by case, depends how personal as you say..

Until we know we can't be sure either way can we but I'm sceptical at this juncture. The 2nd Sane chant..I'd be intrigued to know how the reasons behind that but it wasn't deemed a Police matter.

[Mr Popodopolous]

They seem rather an unpleasant arrogant lot tbh. Reaffirms my views on Aston Villa.

https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=64507.330

I often feel for clubs in financial peril, but in this instance.

Administration in 2018 would have helped on two counts. Taken the blowhards down a peg or 2 and pushed football towards quicker reform.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Mr Popodopolous

[Tim Monaghan]

On 20/12/2023 at 20:38, East End Old Boy said:

Atmosphere must have been pretty crap if he could hear the constant abuse?

Funny you should say that, I was only talking about this the other day. When I used to play, I used to say that it was funny what you would pick up. I know Twerton is hardly Villa Park, but on a busy game I could still hear individual voices. But you’re right, the guy must of have a bit of a booming voice and going for it. 

[luke_bristol]

4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

They seem rather an unpleasant arrogant lot tbh. Reaffirms my views on Aston Villa.

https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=64507.330

I often feel for clubs in financial peril, but in this instance.

Administration in 2018 would have helped on two counts. Taken the blowhards down a peg or 2 and pushed football towards quicker reform.

What a strange bunch, have they all just agreed to pretend they weren’t recently a Championship club and cheated their way to promotion?

Edited December 22, 2023 by luke_bristol

[TheReds]

9 hours ago, phantom said:

You mention two completely different scenarios, one was completely fabricated by some Rovers fantasist the other actually happened. 

You are mixing up your information, between the police etc

Information will come public but everything takes time before being made public 

I am mentioning two scenarios from what I have seen no evidence of either. Both are said to have happened, one was dismissed due to no evidence and one is deemed to have so bad but there also seems to be no evidence at the moment..

The Villa statement itself states Villa have asked authorities to investigate, so how am I mixing up my information - it is actually the first post on this thread "we ask the authorities to investigate this incident to find this individual. Zero tolerance to abuse in football". So where are you getting your information from? I have only seen what has been put on here, and in todays World of all the muppets filming absolutely everything bar watching the game, I am hugely surprised there aren't multiple videos from multiple people from multiple angles etc. Plus this must have all happened in the front few rows if the player has heard it all game, there would be even more video of the incidents from other stands as plenty would see it kicking right off.

Has something happened, probably. Has something happened for a full game with fan fights, walk outs as reported etc, doubtful imo. Probably no different that us fans saying "we don't get given penalty decisions all the time", said to make it look worse than what it actually is.

Slightly off topic, as for their zero tolerance to abuse in football, I wonder what they call abuse? Are they going to ban thousands of their fans when they abuse the referee in their next game - pretty much a guarantee?  

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

What a strange bunch, have they all just agreed to pretend they weren’t recently a Championship club and cheated their way to promotion?

Agreed...although they vehemently deny any view of cheating and now talk about how well run they are.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Anyway I'll bite my tongue a big on Aston Villa for now..I'll try.

Until more comes out on this story.

[AnAstonVillafan]

9 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

What a strange bunch, have they all just agreed to pretend they weren’t recently a Championship club and cheated their way to promotion?

Aston Villa did not cheat. Two investigations found no wrong doing. 

It was good ownership and astute decisions leading to improved footballing performance that got us promoted.

[AnAstonVillafan]

On 21/12/2023 at 16:55, Mr Popodopolous said:

Do I support another side, Redsocks?

Bristol City and England for me..Well I have a couple of other nationalities so obviously when they aren't playing England I don't mind them winning.

Club level though, nope.

Clearly Aston Villa are a good side, presently well run and Unai Emery top is a top manager/coach. However their fans are arrogant, sanctimonious, bang on about other clubs and their apparent FFP while disregarding a key foundation to their success, bit holier than thou maybe. 

Their club are little better given the moaning over Watkins.

Leicester was a precipitous rise, Aston Villa though have shelled out loads..making the most of it at last but seem quite freespending.

The only foundation to our success, Mr Popodopolous is our ownership. We have spent money, yes. 

You actually need to do that in Premier League to progress. There is nothing wrong with that. 

Our owners have put in the club a similar amount of money to what Brighton's owner has put into that club.  And less than what Arsenal, City, United, West Ham have put into theirs.