Watford away match thread

[BrizzleRed]

4 hours ago, REDOXO said:

It is! Me too! But I have a brilliant knowledge of the ignore button. 
 

Thus if you talk nonsense and I don’t respond you are on the ignore/**** button!

Yes the old ignore button.  I’ve never actually resorted to in all my time on here, but there are definitely some tempting me lately.

I’ve always preferred to discuss, rather than ignore, but I need to remind myself why the phrase ‘flogging a dead horse’ exists!

[Bristol Oil Services]

17 hours ago, redsocks said:

A Christmas miracle.coyr

Yeah, Christmas Day sandwiched between consecutive wins, one of them a stuffing. Merry Christmas

[steviestevieneville]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

They are different managers with different personalities, attributes, abilities and approaches

It is probably the case that Manning could not have managed what NP was asked to do, and achieved, over the last two and a half years.

it could well be the case that NP could not have managed what Manning will go on to achieve in the next couple of seasons.

 

 

I get that. What I’m saying is . Pearson did all the dirty work & got us back to a good base to build from . 

[Andy082005]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

They are different managers with different personalities, attributes, abilities and approaches

It is probably the case that Manning could not have managed what NP was asked to do, and achieved, over the last two and a half years.

it could well be the case that NP could not have managed what Manning will go on to achieve in the next couple of seasons.

 

 

I think this is brilliantly put and couldn’t agree more 

Let’s hope Manning is the one to finally deliver us a top 6 challenge 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Sorry , nothing personal but I really dislike the part of your post “two winnable games” every game is very tough in this league . Drop our performance by 10% & we’ll get beat. 
no complacency . 

Sorry, nothing personal but I really dislike the part of your post “no complacency”, no part of my post was intended to convey any complacency at all, I would respectfully suggest that by nearly all parameters both of those games are more “winnable” than the Watford victory would have seemed before the event.

If we display the same ‘behaviours’ as shown at Watford then winning both games is more likely than not winning them in my opinion, do you not agree?

LM comes across to me as a dry sort, showing little emotion, that’s probably the modern coach’s way, but I would be genuinely amazed if all things being equal he and his team didn’t think those games were winnable at this moment in time.

As an aside I was absolutely delighted to hear his comment about bouncing, if I heard it correctly, happy for the fans to celebrate but grounded enough to enjoy the moment without getting carried away.

[Bar BS3]

9 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

There some validity to your first paragraph . However your second is childish , severely lacking in respect at what Pearson did to rescue the club from a massive slide that under other managers wouldn’t have recovered from . My point is

manning couldn’t do what he’s doing if NP hadn’t stabilised it first . 

This is true & I think everyone acknowledges this - but then, with exactly the same set of players, NP (I don't think) ever won 3 games on the trot here & there is a notable increase in the amount of shots we are taking at goal & possibly the about of times we are getting balls into the opponents box.

That has already lead to an increase in penalty awards & deflected goals, in our favour.

Of course there will be drab & frustrating defeats at times - but it already feels like LM is getting more from many of the players & the the squad as a collective & allowing them to play with more freedom & with more attacking intent.

LM has not yet had the opportunity to change a single thing personal wise, yet is producing a different type of play from them and, so far, the players seem to be embracing that. 

[steviestevieneville]

5 minutes ago, Countryfile said:

Sorry, nothing personal but I really dislike the part of your post “no complacency”, no part of my post was intended to convey any complacency at all, I would respectfully suggest that by nearly all parameters both of those games are more “winnable” than the Watford victory would have seemed before the event.

If we display the same ‘behaviours’ as shown at Watford then winning both games is more likely than not winning them in my opinion, do you not agree?

LM comes across to me as a dry sort, showing little emotion, that’s probably the modern coach’s way, but I would be genuinely amazed if all things being equal he and his team didn’t think those games were winnable at this moment in time.

As an aside I was absolutely delighted to hear his comment about bouncing, if I heard it correctly, happy for the fans to celebrate but grounded enough to enjoy the moment without getting carried away.

Football doesn’t work like that though does it . There are more so called surprising results in the championship than any league. Any game is “winnable” really & I never said you wrote complacency but that’s how your post come across . 

[BrizzleRed]

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

1 extra shot per game. Up from 11 per game under NP to 12 under LM. A 9% increase.

It's all come at home though which might be why people see a bigger increase. Shots at AG have gone from 10 to 13, whilst away from home we average almost exactly the same.

More important for me is that shots on target has increased by almost 50%, from 3 per game to 4.4 per game. Simultaneously shots on target against has come down to below 4 per game. I like that, I think it's good.

The average quality of these chances remains pretty consistent with NP's time here.

That’s interesting EA, I hadn’t actually checked the stats, but it felt like a bigger increase than that to me, so fair enough.

I haven’t been away this season, but my personal impression at the Gate is there seems to be an increasing willingness to fire off a shot, sometimes from distance.  
I’m not a big follower of stats and am more of a gut feeling type and it felt to me that we’d improved that element of our game more than the stats apparently suggest in that case.

I’m a massive fan of NP btw, but my only reservation about him was, we seemed to be overly cagy and cautious at home and we all know how poor our home record was.  

It just feels to me we are now more willing and geared to get forward quicker and put the opposition under more pressure in their own box and maybe that’s given me the skewed impression of our shot count.

[johnheadbcfc]

Just so I know... its partly down to pearson if we do well but all mannings fault if we don't?

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

Football doesn’t work like that though does it . There are more so called surprising results in the championship than any league. Any game is “winnable” really & I never said you wrote complacency but that’s how your post come across . 

Glad you agree the games are winnable

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Just so I know... its partly down to pearson if we do well but all mannings fault if we don't?

No.

[Northern Red]

28 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Just so I know... its partly down to pearson if we do well but all mannings fault if we don't?

No. Nobody has said that so I don't know why you're suggesting they have.

[TV Tom]

2 hours ago, downendcity said:

They are different managers with different personalities, attributes, abilities and approaches

It is probably the case that Manning could not have managed what NP was asked to do, and achieved, over the last two and a half years.

it could well be the case that NP could not have managed what Manning will go on to achieve in the next couple of seasons.

 

 

All of this is spot on, NP did as well as anyone could expect for which he deserves as much credit as many on here is/was giving him, for me his time was up and the decision made came at the right time

[johnheadbcfc]

10 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

No. Nobody has said that so I don't know why you're suggesting they have.

Every win or good performance there's a mention of that's a nigel pearson performance or that's nigels tactics but when we lose or play bad the job is too big for Manning,  tinnions fault or that's what we get giving a job to someone who got sacked from mk dons.

[BrizzleRed]

26 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Just so I know... its partly down to pearson if we do well but all mannings fault if we don't?

Is everything ok, as you seem to be super-sensitive about everything LM?

Any new manager/head coach is going to be inheriting the team of players assembled by his predecessor.  A lot of people believe that LM has actually inherited a solid team of honest players with a great team spirit and work ethic.  

They may not be especially gifted, but they are arguably a lot better than you’d usually expect to to inherit from a sacked manager, as they were already performing ok under NP.

Of course LM has been given a solid base to work with, so are you disputing that then?  You seem to be part of a group on here who are throwing around snide comments and seem determined to create a them and us attitude and try to twist anything into a Pearson v Manning narrative.  

We had enough of that shit under LJ, so how about accepting we all want to City to succeed and enjoy a ******* good win yesterday!!!

[steviestevieneville]

49 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Just so I know... it’s partly down to pearson if we do well but all mannings fault if we don't?

Nobody has said that have they. You’ve completely missed the point . 

[johnheadbcfc]

2 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

Is everything ok, as you seem to be super-sensitive about everything LM?

Any new manager/head coach is going to be inheriting the team of players assembled by his predecessor.  A lot of people believe that LM has actually inherited a solid team of honest players with a great team spirit and work ethic.  

They may not be especially gifted, but they are arguably a lot better than you’d usually expect to to inherit from a sacked manager, as they were already performing ok under NP.

Of course LM has been given a solid base to work with, so are you disputing that then?  You seem to be part of a group on here who are throwing around snide comments and seem determined to create a them and us attitude and try to twist anything into a Pearson v Manning narrative.  

We had enough of that shit under LJ, so how about accepting we all want to City to succeed and enjoy a ******* good win yesterday!!!

Not LM sensitive just sick of 5 weeks of a Pearson love in to the point people seem to revel in city struggling over it , not gonna dig through pages and pages to prove my point. I very much enjoyed the win 

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Nobody has said that have they. You’ve completely missed the point . 

Cheers mate  

[JoeAman08]

1 hour ago, steviestevieneville said:

I get that. What I’m saying is . Pearson did all the dirty work & got us back to a good base to build from . 

Then how come he didn’t build off that good base? Yet Manning with barely any training time has us playing like, dare I say it, a top 6 side

[JoeAman08]

It has gone so far the other way you would think NP is paying some of these posters He’s not going to shag you lads ffs

[Northern Red]

Why are you lying, Joe?

[BrizzleRed]

4 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Not LM sensitive just sick of 5 weeks of a Pearson love in to the point people seem to revel in city struggling over it , not gonna dig through pages and pages to prove my point. I very much enjoyed the win 

Cheers mate  

Well, if it makes you feel any better, you and your little cohort’s constant digs and snidey comments are just as wearing, so I guess we’ll all have to suffer together then!

Hopefully people will eventually grow up and realise we all want the same thing …… a successful BCFC.

[johnheadbcfc]

Just now, BrizzleRed said:

Well, if it makes you feel any better, you and your little cohort’s constant digs and snidey comments are just as wearing, so I guess we’ll all have to suffer together then!

Hopefully people will eventually grow up and realise we all want the same thing …… a successful BCFC.

Yeah the burden of supporting such a club I suppose!

[bcfcredandwhite]

Every manager has contributed in their own way on the Bristol City journey. 
Sacking Pearson and appointing Liam was a big gamble and I admit I was very concerned, but right now the signs point to wards it paying off. Of course there are a lot of games ahead so it’s early days, but I’m really enjoying the football again and the last 3 games have contributed to me and my family having a great Christmas. 
I really hope we can carry the momentum on into January. 

COYR

[eardun]

Credit from a Watford fan on their forum - he could see that Manning had worked out how to hurt them:

“Before the rant, well done Bristol City and Manning. Setup correctly, attacked us down right where we are weakest, made Hoedt score another own goal then make him play their striker onside for their third goal. Fourth goal I didn't see because I turned it off near the end. As bad as we were, credit has to go to BC today and take nothing away from them, they battered us all game and forced us into errors and took their chances.

From our prospective, whatever was in that malt whiskey, stick the rest of it down the sink. VI's constant chopping and changing of the line up is not helping our cause at all. Yes we were bound to get punished heavily again since Leeds and today was the day. Nobody turned up worth a damn and despite "Dave" finally getting on the scoresheet with a goal, we had very little to cheer or be happy about. Only positive thing is we can put this result out of sight if we beat Stoke City on the 29th. However, that is not far off and I do not think we will have the time to get over such as result/performance as a team till then. Hoedt with another OG, I mean come on, has that wonder goal at Hull gone to his head? He hasn't been the same since. Why did VI start Raj? Bristol City did exactly what I expected them to do, play down our weaker side and exploited us to no end all game. Left side wasn't much better and how many times are we going to play an opponent onside? 

Whatever the gameplan, tactics or formation was today, chuck it in the bin because Stoke will do exactly the same as Bristol did. People have been saying it all season, and maybe the good results have painted over this, but we have riding a lot of luck this season with other teams not finishing chances. Are we really as bad as 1-4 suggested? No, not as a team overall but today we were totally outclassed from a side on a good run with a new manager bounce. BC have some decent players' and we just could not cope with their press. I think oppo managers are getting the memo how to play us now. Especially if we continue to start Rajovic, get down the wings and stop the crosses. We are not going to score, or threaten.

VI got it completely wrong today and he must accept much of the blame. But as I said in the opening paragraph, Bristol City were excellent. Our home form is a bit dodgy of late, and we only have three days till our next game, again at home. Defence was all over the shop and closing down strikers was not taken into account.
Another Boxing Day battering at home. Millwall last year, Bristol City this year. 

Surely this is not a sign of things to come? Lose badly again to Stoke and I think any goodwill VI and the side had built up could be cracking faster than we anticipated. Bad day at the office, lots to work on, nothing to take from it at all as a positive. We need to move on and move on quick.”
 
 

[steviestevieneville]

3 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Then how come he didn’t build off that good base? Yet Manning with barely any training time has us playing like, dare I say it, a top 6 side

Again , missed my point which is . Without NP’s three years of firefighting  we wouldn’t be in a position to build on. Perhaps that’s what he’s good at . 

[steviestevieneville]

13 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Not LM sensitive just sick of 5 weeks of a Pearson love in to the point people seem to revel in city struggling over it , not gonna dig through pages and pages to prove my point. I very much enjoyed the win 

Cheers mate  

I’m not your mate. Why not not come up with a counter argument rather just being a troll 

[johnheadbcfc]

2 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

I’m not your mate. Why not not come up with a counter argument rather just being a troll 

1. I explained the point to someone else, which was pretty much aimed at both of you. 

2. You've hurt my feelings 

[W-S-M Seagull]

12 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Then how come he didn’t build off that good base? Yet Manning with barely any training time has us playing like, dare I say it, a top 6 side

Hull away? Swansea away? Plymouth at home etc etc? 

Let's be realistic, it was only a week or so ago that we were looking over our shoulders at the relegation zone. 

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, steviestevieneville said:

Again , missed my point which is . Without NP’s three years of firefighting  we wouldn’t be in a position to build on. Perhaps that’s what he’s good at . 

Ok I didn’t read all the way through. I agree he did a fine job. I agree they botched things with his sacking. The timing and letting it get toxic was silly. Maybe could not foresee it. Maybe they didn’t like the candidates available in the summer. Idk but agree it wasn’t handled great and LM had a good base to work with.
 

However, I think it was time to move on to a more progressive HC/Manager. It has felt very much like NP v LM as a fanbase. I’m not anti NP in the sense that you discredit his time here. I am anti NP after 3 years and not performing any better. LM has had 8-9 games and the feel from on the pitch has intensified. The players look not only confident but like they are enjoying their jobs being on the front foot. 
 

After all that, it still feels like a lot of you want to discredit the job LM is doing. I don’t get it

[johnheadbcfc]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Hull away? Swansea away? Plymouth at home etc etc? 

Let's be realistic, it was only a week or so ago that we were looking over our shoulders at the relegation zone. 

Just goes to show how fickle we are as fans to overreact when the league is so tight!