Watford away match thread

[W-S-M Seagull]

42 minutes ago, TV Tom said:

All of this is spot on, NP did as well as anyone could expect for which he deserves as much credit as many on here is/was giving him, for me his time was up and the decision made came at the right time

Why are you trying to bring up the past and stir tensions? 

Lets not rewrite history. Only a very very small minority thought it was the right time to sack NP and that his time was up. The general feeling within the fanbase was that he should have been given a new contract. 

Even if we go on and get promotion to the premier league, there is always going to be a sour taste in the mouth about how things were handled by the club. 

[JoeAman08]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

Hull away? Swansea away? Plymouth at home etc etc? 

Let's be realistic, it was only a week or so ago that we were looking over our shoulders at the relegation zone. 

That is called the championship. Couple wins and couple losses see you fly up or down the table. It is a competitive league. Hell Pearson had a horrid run when he was caretaker but most wanted him long term.
 

Manning had to put behaviours in place, find his best XI and fill the forward players with confidence all with one international break going into the busy christmas schedule. You can’t seriously have expected him to pick up maximum points in that time?  

At the end of the day, we are playing much more fluid and with more confidence on a regular basis. You can hear it in the ground. The football is attractive and AG is responding loudly. NP did a good job but that is achievement he didn’t come close to.  

[W-S-M Seagull]

7 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

That is called the championship. Couple wins and couple losses see you fly up or down the table. It is a competitive league. Hell Pearson had a horrid run when he was caretaker but most wanted him long term.
 

Manning had to put behaviours in place, find his best XI and fill the forward players with confidence all with one international break going into the busy christmas schedule. You can’t seriously have expected him to pick up maximum points in that time?  

At the end of the day, we are playing much more fluid and with more confidence on a regular basis. You can hear it in the ground. The football is attractive and AG is responding loudly. NP did a good job but that is achievement he didn’t come close to.  

Sorry I stopped reading when you said Manning had to put behaviours in place. 

All those behaviours were already in place. Maybe he's enhanced upon them, it's however too early too tell. 

Now I've gone picked myself off the floor I have gone back and read and now I'm back on the floor. 

Like I said, up until a week ago, we were looking over our shoulders. Ashton Gate was a morgue. Fans were booing our players for passing the ball between the cbs. Fans booed at the end of the Norwich game. 

So let's not make things up based on 3 good wins and pretend it's always been that way. Let's be balanced. 

It's like me going to the gym once ir twice and then me asserting that I always go to the gym. 

And it is complete and utter bullshit to suggest we didn't play attractive football under Nige. I've given examples of games this season alone when we did. Yes it certainly wasn't every game but for you to assert that it never happened is complete bullshit. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by W-S-M Seagull

[JoeAman08]

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Sorry I stopped reading when you said Manning had to put behaviours in place. 

All those behaviours were already in place. Maybe he's enhanced upon them, it's however too early too tell. 

Yea the quick one touch and out of feet and forward passing was already in place. The traps we set for our press were already there. Maybe you should finish reading so you can learn something. Also, I knew behaviours would make someone bite 

[steviestevieneville]

24 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

1. I explained the point to someone else, which was pretty much aimed at both of you. 

2. You've hurt my feelings 

[steviestevieneville]

23 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Ok I didn’t read all the way through. I agree he did a fine job. I agree they botched things with his sacking. The timing and letting it get toxic was silly. Maybe could not foresee it. Maybe they didn’t like the candidates available in the summer. Idk but agree it wasn’t handled great and LM had a good base to work with.
 

However, I think it was time to move on to a more progressive HC/Manager. It has felt very much like NP v LM as a fanbase. I’m not anti NP in the sense that you discredit his time here. I am anti NP after 3 years and not performing any better. LM has had 8-9 games and the feel from on the pitch has intensified. The players look not only confident but like they are enjoying their jobs being on the front foot. 
 

After all that, it still feels like a lot of you want to discredit the job LM is doing. I don’t get it

You’ve obviously not read my posts on manning & to be fair why would you  . I was against Pearson’s sacking , especially the way it was handled. 
I’ve been 100% behind manning since he was appointed. He had nothing to do with the shambles that pre seeded  him. My problem is with the lansdowns. I’ll always get behind any player or manager . We support the club & anyone who works for it. Not however who owns it. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

17 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yea the quick one touch and out of feet and forward passing was already in place. The traps we set for our press were already there. Maybe you should finish reading so you can learn something. Also, I knew behaviours would make someone bite 

OK, you're a self confessed WUM. Let's leave this conversation here. 

[Davefevs]

42 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

Then how come he didn’t build off that good base? Yet Manning with barely any training time has us playing like, dare I say it, a top 6 side

FWIW, LM has now been in role 7 weeks.

If you have a look at a pre-season schedule you’ll notice that some of that 5 week schedule is taken up with pretty much fitness only. Then you start training-in tactical plans, interspersed with friendlies, etc.

So, I’d say LM is now at a point where he’s probably had a similar amount of time as he would’ve had in a pre-season.

Id rather be focussing on LM, but people want to drag it back to Nige.  So, don’t forget that before he got hit by a hideous amount of injuries, he did have us 7th, 8th and 7th at points this season.  Yeah, yeah, that’s selective, but shows he was building on that base…we spent most of the season in the top-half.  But, that’s my opinion, albeit somewhat based on fact too.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

You’ve obviously not read my posts on manning & to be fair why would you  . I was against Pearson’s sacking , especially the way it was handled. 
I’ve been 100% behind manning since he was appointed. He had nothing to do with the shambles that pre seeded  him. My problem is with the lansdowns. I’ll always get behind any player or manager . We support the club & anyone who works for it. Not however who owns it. 

Have a Robin from me

 

[cotswoldred2]

9 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their view and you clearly have yours.

I also have mine too and I can assure you, it differs greatly from yours.  

I certainly don’t agree that it’s a ‘given’ that Pearson is a ‘sour puss’.  You may think so, but that certainly doesn’t automatically make it a given!

Why are you also assuming that any anti board/Lansdown/Pearson sacking is also anti-Manning?

I’ll bet the massive majority of pro-Pearson supporters are willing Liam Manning to do well, as it means the Club will also be doing well and what fan wouldn’t want that??

That doesn’t mean they’ll have forgiven those who are running the club for some of their actions and why should they be immune from criticism anyway?

That does sound like back peddling a tad. This club has a reputation for being loyal with managers, perhaps a bit too loyal, complacency has been our downfall, do you need proof? 

Boxing day last year we had just come of two home defeats Stoke and W.B.A it was a dark depressing Christmas and I thought then Pearson should have gone, and so did the majority of the football world, but we dallied...contrast that with yesterday and the it's chalk and cheese.

I too in a fit of pique ranted on here about a succession of poor owners after Saints away, but perhaps Jon has pulled a rabbit in getting LM, I certainly hope so.

[Engvall’s Splinter]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Is everything ok, as you seem to be super-sensitive about everything LM?

Any new manager/head coach is going to be inheriting the team of players assembled by his predecessor.  A lot of people believe that LM has actually inherited a solid team of honest players with a great team spirit and work ethic.  

They may not be especially gifted, but they are arguably a lot better than you’d usually expect to to inherit from a sacked manager, as they were already performing ok under NP.

Of course LM has been given a solid base to work with, so are you disputing that then?  You seem to be part of a group on here who are throwing around snide comments and seem determined to create a them and us attitude and try to twist anything into a Pearson v Manning narrative.  

We had enough of that shit under LJ, so how about accepting we all want to City to succeed and enjoy a ******* good win yesterday!!!

Great post. 

[elhombrecito]

Must every thread turn into an argument? 

[cheese]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

They are different managers with different personalities, attributes, abilities and approaches

It is probably the case that Manning could not have managed what NP was asked to do, and achieved, over the last two and a half years.

it could well be the case that NP could not have managed what Manning will go on to achieve in the next couple of seasons.

 

 

That's how I see it too (and hope), similar to Leicester - NP created the culture and bought the players, Ranieri won the trophy.  Could Ranieri have created what NP did and could Pearson have delivered the Premier League title.  We'll never know.

[W-S-M Seagull]

11 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

I  thought then Pearson should have gone, and so did the majority of the football world

That's not really true tho is it. 

[Engvall’s Splinter]

16 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

and so did the majority of the football world,

 

[Kingswood Robin]

Well that was good to watch yesterday and my sons first away match too. The number of times we robbed them of the ball was unbelievable.

3 Boxing Day away matches for me now, Fulham, Brentford and Watford and all wins.

I was quite impressed with my first visit to Vicarage Road, neat, compact, good sound system and four corner floodlights always look good. Nice of them to play a song for us as well.

[italian dave]

13 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Must every thread turn into an argument? 

Yes. OTIB rules. 

[TheReds]

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Is everything ok, as you seem to be super-sensitive about everything LM?

Any new manager/head coach is going to be inheriting the team of players assembled by his predecessor.  A lot of people believe that LM has actually inherited a solid team of honest players with a great team spirit and work ethic.  

They may not be especially gifted, but they are arguably a lot better than you’d usually expect to to inherit from a sacked manager, as they were already performing ok under NP.

Of course LM has been given a solid base to work with, so are you disputing that then?  You seem to be part of a group on here who are throwing around snide comments and seem determined to create a them and us attitude and try to twist anything into a Pearson v Manning narrative.  

We had enough of that shit under LJ, so how about accepting we all want to City to succeed and enjoy a ******* good win yesterday!!!

This.

Fair play to what Manning and his team has done the last few games, I don't think anyone is knocking that (apart from one poster who wanted him out of the club last week when 2-1 down). But let's be realistic here, if Manning would have come in and inherited even a part of what Pearson did we/he would be nowhere near seeing improvements as quickly. The players seem to all have a togetherness and an attitude that gives us fans a bit of pride. The fans that want to constantly think it is simply all down to Manning then they are just being a bit disingenuous imo, and likewise the ones at the other end saying it's Pearsons team so he deserves the credit

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and they both deserve credit for what is happening now, all this point scoring is just pathetic. We battered a Watford side on their patch and after that it's like a few schoolground kids making snide comments at every opportunity on here. If we lose to Brum on Friday with a bang average/poor performance we will no doubt have to endure all the "this is a top 6 squad mind" comments.

 

[BrizzleRed]

7 minutes ago, cotswoldred2 said:

That does sound like back peddling a tad. This club has a reputation for being loyal with managers, perhaps a bit too loyal, complacency has been our downfall, do you need proof? 

Boxing day last year we had just come of two home defeats Stoke and W.B.A it was a dark depressing Christmas and I thought then Pearson should have gone, and so did the majority of the football world, but we dallied...contrast that with yesterday and the it's chalk and cheese.

I too in a fit of pique ranted on here about a succession of poor owners after Saints away, but perhaps Jon has pulled a rabbit in getting LM, I certainly hope so.

Got absolutely no idea where you think I was back peddling.  

As you chose not to answer any of the straightforward questions I posed, and just continued pushing your own pov, it seems obvious you aren’t up for discussion, so let’s just leave it there.

[ExiledAjax]

2 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

That’s interesting EA, I hadn’t actually checked the stats, but it felt like a bigger increase than that to me, so fair enough.

I haven’t been away this season, but my personal impression at the Gate is there seems to be an increasing willingness to fire off a shot, sometimes from distance.  
I’m not a big follower of stats and am more of a gut feeling type and it felt to me that we’d improved that element of our game more than the stats apparently suggest in that case.

I’m a massive fan of NP btw, but my only reservation about him was, we seemed to be overly cagy and cautious at home and we all know how poor our home record was.  

It just feels to me we are now more willing and geared to get forward quicker and put the opposition under more pressure in their own box and maybe that’s given me the skewed impression of our shot count.

If you've only been watching the home games then your perception is correct. At home we've seen a 30% increase in the number of shots taken. That's notable.

The most important thing is that the increase in number has come without a drop off in the quality of the chance. 

We're still a little way off the sort of numbers that top 6 teams typically display, but it's trending in the right direction.

Edited December 27, 2023 by ExiledAjax

[Red Army 75]

23 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Must every thread turn into an argument? 

Have to say you wouldn’t think we had won 3 on the bounce. Posters seem the more concerned with tedious point scoring.

Time to move on lads and lasses 

[italian dave]

22 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Must every thread turn into an argument? 

Despite my earlier reply, I do agree with your sentiment.

And what makes these endless arguments even more pointless (in my view) is that they are nearly all framed in a football context. We were playing better/worse under NP/LM; we were wherever in the table, our style of play has/hasn’t altered.

And yet, almost all of us also acknowledge that there was an awful lot more to NPs departure than just the football. And we don’t know what that is.

Yet, we’ll still continue arguing as though it was all about the football. 

[Davefevs]

13 minutes ago, TheReds said:

This.

Fair play to what Manning and his team has done the last few games, I don't think anyone is knocking that (apart from one poster who wanted him out of the club last week when 2-1 down). But let's be realistic here, if Manning would have come in and inherited even a part of what Pearson did we/he would be nowhere near seeing improvements as quickly. The players seem to all have a togetherness and an attitude that gives us fans a bit of pride. The fans that want to constantly think it is simply all down to Manning then they are just being a bit disingenuous imo, and likewise the ones at the other end saying it's Pearsons team so he deserves the credit

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle and they both deserve credit for what is happening now, all this point scoring is just pathetic. We battered a Watford side on their patch and after that it's like a few schoolground kids making snide comments at every opportunity on here. If we lose to Brum on Friday with a bang average/poor performance we will no doubt have to endure all the "this is a top 6 squad mind" comments.

 

Bravo

[BrizzleRed]

2 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

If you've only been watching the home games then you're perception is correct. At home we've seen a 30% increase in the number of shots taken. That's notable.

The most important thing is that the increase in number has come without a drop off in the quality of the chance. 

We're still a little way off the sort of numbers that top 6 teams typically display, but it's trending in the right direction.

Cheers for the clarification EA and at least I wasn’t imagining things.

I’m more than happy with trending in the right direction, so long may it continue

[RUSSEL85]

29 minutes ago, elhombrecito said:

Must every thread turn into an argument? 

Yes. It has put me off visiting or contributing on OTIB, good or bad results it results in a bloody argument.

And if anyone disagrees with me let’s have it out!! 

[TV Tom]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Why are you trying to bring up the past and stir tensions? 

Lets not rewrite history. Only a very very small minority thought it was the right time to sack NP and that his time was up. The general feeling within the fanbase was that he should have been given a new contract. 

Even if we go on and get promotion to the premier league, there is always going to be a sour taste in the mouth about how things were handled by the club. 

That's rich coming you, it's about the only thing you've talked about in the past two months, practically every day without fail, most of NP backers seem to have come around to the fact that although they weren't happy with the decision (which is fair enough) they have now accepted it whereas you can't seem to hide your angst

[W-S-M Seagull]

Just now, TV Tom said:

That's rich coming you, it's about the only thing you've talked about in the past two months, practically every day without fail, most of NP backers seem to have come around to the fact that although they weren't happy with the decision (which is fair enough) they have now accepted it whereas you can't seem to hide your angst

Stop making up lies Tommy. 

If people chat rubbish and try to rewrite history, then they will be pulled up on that. 

You must have missed my posts where I said Manning has my support. 

[TV Tom]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

Stop making up lies Tommy. 

If people chat rubbish and try to rewrite history, then they will be pulled up on that. 

You must have missed my posts where I said Manning has my support. 

Absolutely no point in getting in dialogue with you so i'll leave it there

[Davefevs]

 

[awbb]

It's great to get 3 wins on the bounce. 

I don't think we'd have seen what we saw yesterday had we not grabbed those 6 points at home from games in which, on other days, we might not have been able to get over the line. Confidence helps so much.

The near impossibility in The Championship is to be able to do that game in and game out. It needs your Manager/Head Coach to get their plan right and have the players execute it. Most of the time, you need the opposition to help you by doing the opposite.

So, it's fair to say, I'm not expecting us to tear teams apart, yet, as much as I would like it! If we put Birmingham in our pocket and give Milwall a kicking at AG on New Year's Day, I might... just might start to get excited.

I'm not ******* bouncing until we've done something, after all.