Guardiola Ball is NOT the Way

[Nogbad the Bad]

As things stand 75 readers of the thread have been moved to say they agree with Scrumpy by positively rating his OP, with just 5 indicating that they don't.

Pretty overwhelming agreement with Scrumpy's view.

[Open End Numb Legs]

You can set up your team however you want but if the tactics aren't working after 20 minutes then you have to adapt.

That is where the coaches earn their corn, during those 90+ minutes. If plan A doesn't create shots on goal then you can't keep repeating that and expect a different outcome, you need to change something in game and ideally, not wait until the 70th minute to do so.

When losing I have been encouraged by some of the subs giving it a go as it shows we can do something different but it is disappointing that we leave that too late sometimes.

As a fan I want to see us giving it a lash and not lose with a whimper, playing it backwards and allowing defences to re set.

[RedRock]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

My simple view is that in changing the way we play, some players will benefit, others won’t….and we end up on a similar state.  And the benefits aren’t huge enough, the downsides not damming enough.

At this point, it all feels a bit “samey”.

I can watch a match as a fan and see some good things, and also some not so good things.

It’s like a big set of levers, you pull one, it impacts another.

FWIW it’s kinda what I expected.

It’s why I’ve just sat on the fence and observed, whilst several have jumped up and down on whatever side they sit on, jumping to conclusion way too early.  I already knew of the strengths and weaknesses of the squad.  The task for Manning is to remove the weaknesses and add to the strengths.  I honestly don’t think that will be achieved by coaching….it needs investment in the squad, through top-class recruitment as well.

I’ve ’sat on the fence’ too, but after a 10 or so game block, can start gaining first impressions. I said though, when he was first appointed, it won’t be until February before I can determine the merits, or otherwise, of Manning’s appointment. 

Like you, unsurprised at where we are at but hoped for better, as you do, the ‘new manager bounce’ and all that. Dream on though, this is Bristol City. 

[Numero Uno]

12 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

As things stand 75 readers of the thread have been moved to say they agree with Scrumpy by positively rating his OP, with just 5 indicating that they don't.

Pretty overwhelming agreement with Scrumpy's view.

Yep, whether the self appointed "football intelligentsia" like it or not an overwhelming number of football fans pay money to be entertained and aren't particularly interested in watching "chess style" tactical mastery unfold in front of them. In simple terms if you pay £30 for something then you expect to ENJOY it more often than not. When you go to the restaurant and your corned beef hash and baked beans tastes like shit you don't normally forgive the chef because the way it was served was pleasing on the eye......

Edited January 2 by Numero Uno

[Three Lions]

50 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Front foot football is a meaningless description. Pep Guardiloa's teams sit on the opposition with possession, playing positionally dominating territory in numerical overloading units looking to switch and reset utilising width and depth. As the team plays in patterns using numerical overloads when the ball is lost this provides opportunity to counter press in numbers aggressively further up the pitch. The team dominates in and out of possession.

Is that front, or back foot football?    

Whats is this Manning Pep style of football? Pepe Guardiola doesn't have a style of football his team has an identity, clear playing principles, sub principles and a model of play. 

If Liam Manning  can take over a team mid season install an identity, principles of play and a new playing model around the team playing twice a week, and three times a week with limited training time (no pre season), and with a squad of limited ability in two months he will be a coach surpassing Guardiola's standard!

Full back to CB to full back and back to CB to full back reminds me of Southgate and England not Man City!!

[Dr Balls]

18 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Yep, whether the self appointed "football intelligentsia" like it or not an overwhelming number of football fans pay money to be entertained and aren't particularly interested in watching "chess style" tactical mastery unfold in front of them. In simple terms if you pay £30 for something then you expect to ENJOY it more often than not. When you go to the restaurant and your corned beef hash and baked beans tastes like shit you don't normally forgive the chef because the way it was served was pleasing on the eye......

Trying to make corned beef hash and baked beans pleasant on the eye really sums up where we are. I would like us to be entertaining in our style and win matches. However I am enough of a pragmatist to know that the ingredients of our squad mean that’s not possible very often, so I would accept winning but pragmatic football I.e. 1-0 wins. At least I leave the ground happy at the end of the game. What none of us want is turgid, safety-first, low entertainment, ineffective, no scoring, possession-based amongst our defenders, drawing or losing football, because we are trying to be something our current players cannot perform at this level. I would expect our team to have more possession and look great against League 1 opposition such as Oxford. If Manning was assuming that these players could do the same against better teams at this level, then you would suggest he was either naive or deluded or both!

[Sir Geoff]

56 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Maybe Jon and Tins thought we had those players, Manning - based on his two matches against us when Oxford manager - had a similar view, but the majority of us fans and Nige knew we didn’t. 

Up to Jon and Tins now to salvage the situation by buying in the players that fit the ‘Pep’ system and for Manning and his coaches to try and develop some of our core players that have the potential to deliver his style. 

Won't that mean also shipping out most of the academy , seeing that we intend playing the same system throughout all age levels of the club.

[Numero Uno]

4 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Trying to make corned beef hash and baked beans pleasant on the eye really sums up where we are. I would like us to be entertaining in our style and win matches. However I am enough of a pragmatist to know that the ingredients of our squad mean that’s not possible very often, so I would accept winning but pragmatic football I.e. 1-0 wins. At least I leave the ground happy at the end of the game. What none of us want is turgid, safety-first, low entertainment, ineffective, no scoring, possession-based amongst our defenders, drawing or losing football, because we are trying to be something our current players cannot perform at this level. I would expect our team to have more possession and look great against League 1 opposition such as Oxford. If Manning was assuming that these players could do the same against better teams at this level, then you would suggest he was either naive or deluded or both!

I like your opening comment............very true indeed.

[Silvio Dante]

1 minute ago, Sir Geoff said:

Won't that mean also shipping out most of the academy , seeing that we intend playing the same system throughout all age levels of the club.

Apparently, there are some great young players coming through

[Cowshed]

5 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

Full back to CB to full back and back to CB to full back reminds me of Southgate and England not Man City!!

U passing.

England frequently struggle to break down teams that sit in and get compact conceding space only to the side or in front of a screening block, and the ball has to move in a U shaped pattern across the CB's to WB's. 

That is from a England team that plays with world stars in its midfield. 

Bristol City have? 

[Red Skin]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I kinda agree.  (Totally disagree about Hull though)

I’m not that fussed about winning runs, losing runs, per se (except momentum +/-), whether we win more at home than away or vice-versa.

Ultimately we need to win more than we lose to move up the table.

Despite a good run, we are back at equal wins and losses.  That good run recovered us from a bad run where we slipped to less wins than losses.

We are witnessing a mid table squad showing all the inconsistent of a mid table squad.  We are seeing some positives against some opponents and some deficiencies against others.

I’m positive about Liam Manning, but I still think results won’t be much different under him.

You know I’m into data, and the only things that have materially changed are:

• patience in possession
• patience in the press (but good triggers)

Our attacking output - chances / shots / xG - has regressed slightly 

Our defensive output - has improved slightly.

Simplistic view of why - both our play and our opponents play is more structured.  Our patience in possession gives time to our opponents to get back into shape. And vice-versa.

Unless others have different definitions, it isn’t more attacking, more front foot.  It’s not creating more chances, nor better chances.

It’s still relatively early days.  We are about where we should be - 11th.  He needs the window to bolster us.

Good post.

Obviously results and performances haven't been what any of us wanted.

It's a forum so everyone has a right to an opinion, but what I find frustrating in some of these opinions is that people seem very quick to judge and write off the style LM is attempting based on results and performances without considering any the following mitigating factors:

1)  Player implementation.  How successful the players are in implementing it.   Just listen to LM post-match comments on Saturday and he mentioned that the players weren't brave enough.  He did not send them out to play turgid unambitious possession football for possession sake.   

2).  Opposition tactics. The opposition's success in countering our initial game plan.  As teams study our performances they will become more successful setting up to  counter it.

3)  Player education. The still limited time LM has had to coach the players on how to deal with all the eventualities and different patterns of play they need to use to deal with different in game scenarios.  The players are still learning.

4). Player understanding and decision making.  The players' ability in game see what is happening and to pick the right approach to counter opposition responses to our initial game plan.  Other than perhaps Watford we haven't seen a complete 90 min LM performance, but we have seen aspects of it for spells in almost all games.   What we haven't done well is change in response to the opposition, which really needs to come from the players (once they've been schooled of course).

Thankfully, LM does recognise these and is staying true to his beliefs despite some poor performances and results, because he is better placed than any of us because he knows what the players have been coached in, the things he still needs to teach them, what he has asked them to do and where they have fallen short.  (Which may mean we need some different players, despite what we were told by the hierarchy).  It's clear from quite expansive comments the players have made that they believe in what LM is doing so I am happy to so along with it too despite the frustrations.

Sure, there are aspects of what we are seeing that are questionable e.g. persevering with one up front.  But maybe when Wells can last a full game, then we might see him and Tommy together up front? 

Despite the protestations otherwise, I still believe that if we had sacked a manager that was unpopular with the fans then LM would be afforded more patience than he is currently being given by some on here.

Edited January 2 by Red Skin

[Sir Geoff]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Apparently, there are some great young players coming through

Even better than what has come through recently, allegedly.

[Sir Geoff]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

U passing.

England frequently struggle to break down teams that sit in and get compact conceding space only to the side or in front of a screening block, and the ball has to move in a U shaped pattern across the CB's to WB's. 

That is from a England team that plays with world stars in its midfield. 

Bristol City have? 

So that has to be down to the manager and his tactics, whichever standard of football you play at.

[Dr Balls]

1 minute ago, Red Skin said:

Good post.

Obviously results and performances haven't been what any of us wanted.

It's a forum so everyone has a right to an opinion, but what I find frustrating in some of these opinions is that people seem very quick to judge and write off the style LM is attempting based on results and performances without considering any the following mitigating factors:

1)  Player implementation.  How successful the players are in implementing it.   Just listen to LM post-match comments on Saturday and he mentioned that the players weren't brave enough.  He did not send them out to play turgid unambitious possession football for possession sake.   

2).  Opposition tactics. The opposition's success in countering our initial game plan.  As teams study our performances they will become more successful setting up to  counter it.

3)  Player education. The still limited time LM has had to coach the players on how to deal with all the eventualities and different patterns of play they need to use to deal with different in game scenarios.  The players are still learning.

4). Player understanding and decision making.  The players' ability in game see what is happening and to pick the right approach to counter opposition responses to our initial game plan.  Other than perhaps Watford we haven't seen a complete 90 min LM performance, but we have seen aspects of it for spells in almost all games.   What we haven't done well is change in response to the opposition, which really needs to come from the players (once they've been schooled of course).

Thankfully, LM does recognise these and is staying true to his beliefs despite some poor performances and results, because he is better placed than any of us because he knows what the players have been coached in, the things he still needs to teach them, what he has asked them to do and where they have fallen short.  (Which may mean we need some different players, despite what we were told by the hierarchy).  It's clear from quite expensive comments the players had made that they believe in what LM is doing so I am happy to so along with it too despite the frustrations.

Sure, there are aspects of what we are seeing that are questionable e.g. persevering with one up front.  But maybe when Wells can last a full game, then we might see him and Tommy together up front? 

Despite the protestations otherwise, I still believe that if we had sacked a manager that was unpopular with the fans then LM would be afforded more patience than he is currently being given by some on here.

Your last paragraph sums it up. The powers that be sacked a manager who was popular with the fans and one of which we could generally see what he was trying to do with the resources he was afforded. Even the players brought in the summer with what budget he was given were good buys: Dickie, Knight, TGH. We weren’t really failing but JL decided to replace experience with potential that may or may not exist or be realised. That’s the risk they have taken and although this was supposedly about the short term I.e. making the top 6 this season, there is little or no evidence for that happening. Hence why Manning has been given no honeymoon to speak of by many of the fans, because it was a change that many felt was unnecessary. And at least so far it hasn’t gone as badly as Rooney at Brum.

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

4). Player understanding and decision making.  The players' ability in game see what is happening and to pick the right approach to counter opposition responses to our initial game plan.  Other than perhaps Watford we haven't seen a complete 90 min LM performance, but we have seen aspects of it for spells in almost all games.   What we haven't done well is change in response to the opposition, which really needs to come from the players (once they've been schooled of course).

 

I think that’s giving Liam a bit of a free pass. I do agree with something he said early on about players not being able to necessarily hear him so having to make their own decisions on the pitch, but those decisions can only be micro as opposed to macro. A change in response to the opposition is more macro and has to come from the manager - or there is no point in him being there.

It’s fair to say that whether people like LMs style or not, the biggest weakness since he took over has been poor in game management as you acknowledge above. But that is 80% manager, 20% players - I’m damn sure if someone was not executing what they’d been told on a macro basis LM or any manager would have them off.

Bottom line is other managers have countered us mid game. Our manager/head coach needs to have the ability to do the same.

[Bs4Red]

5 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

So why didn't he change it from the touchline. Issue some instructions to move the ball quicker, change the shape, anything other than doing nothing.

That’s a fair question mate, I guess his post match presser he said, they discussed it at half time. 
 

I don’t think changing the shape would suddenly make us pass the ball quicker. 
 

It’s about bravery with the ball and not being afraid to give it away. Constantly taking the safe option, that’s a split second decision for the player. 

[Red Skin]

4 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think that’s giving Liam a bit of a free pass. I do agree with something he said early on about players not being able to necessarily hear him so having to make their own decisions on the pitch, but those decisions can only be micro as opposed to macro. A change in response to the opposition is more macro and has to come from the manager - or there is no point in him being there.

It’s fair to say that whether people like LMs style or not, the biggest weakness since he took over has been poor in game management as you acknowledge above. But that is 80% manager, 20% players - I’m damn sure if someone was not executing what they’d been told on a macro basis LM or any manager would have them off.

Bottom line is other managers have countered us mid game. Our manager/head coach needs to have the ability to do the same.

I think we have generally tended to start games well, and other managers have made tactical changes at HT to counter us.  It is then that we don't respond.  And yes, we can disagree about percentages of accountability, but I'm not absolving LM from some responsibility for that. 

Perhaps I am being too patient, but I am not sure what the alternative is?  Hound Manning? Get on the players backs so they become even less ambitious on the ball?  Right now we really need to be supporters rather than detractors.  

Despite what the hierarchy said we all know we are a number of players short of top 6.  It'll take some new signings to take us further.  Admittedly it's only been for short periods, but if we can play the way LM wants us to play with players capable of playing that way then I feel progress is possible.  

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I think that’s giving Liam a bit of a free pass. I do agree with something he said early on about players not being able to necessarily hear him so having to make their own decisions on the pitch, but those decisions can only be micro as opposed to macro. A change in response to the opposition is more macro and has to come from the manager - or there is no point in him being there.

It’s fair to say that whether people like LMs style or not, the biggest weakness since he took over has been poor in game management as you acknowledge above. But that is 80% manager, 20% players - I’m damn sure if someone was not executing what they’d been told on a macro basis LM or any manager would have them off.

Bottom line is other managers have countered us mid game. Our manager/head coach needs to have the ability to do the same.

I might summarise this wrong, so apologies in advance, but…

…this is the difference from Lg1 to the Championship, especially when you don’t have better players than most of the rest of the division (ie Oxford’s status in Lg1).  You have to be able to spot (first of all) how your opponents are stopping you and then come up with a solution to get around it and hope the players execute it. You can of course continue what you’re doing if you truly believe it will play out successfully.  Every game is a challenge for Bristol City.  We don’t have the strength of playing squad to play like Leicester or Saints, whose managers know that 9/10 they have the players to overcome the problems they might be posed.  I’m not saying they win 9/10, sometimes you do it all right but don’t stick the ball in the net.

I’m waiting to see what Liam Manning does in this respect.  I also don’t think there are any issues in questioning this either, doesn’t mean you’re not supportive, it’s just your inquisitive nature.

From a fans view I thought Lee Johnson was poor in game.  I don’t think Nige was great either, but he accepted what he had to an extent.

 

[Cowshed]

16 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

So that has to be down to the manager and his tactics, whichever standard of football you play at.

Yes.

England generally find answers to the challenges virtually all opposition set them. England play in their defined methodical way established over a significant period of time and tournaments, qualifiers etc frequently needing to take time and patience in possession to overcome opponents. That is a team with world stars.

Now Bristol City. Liam Manning doesn't have world stars. He also appears to be expected to find solutions in a extraordinary short period of time with minimal training time. Guardiola's and Klopp's had pre season and a season to not get their sides playing the football they wanted with squads of exceptional talent. Guardiolas and Klopp's teams were not instant.

 

 

 

[Greyrobbo]

18 hours ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Today was dire, absolutely dire and a prime example of how this modern trend of Play Station football will be the death of the game we love.

It is well known that The Etihad is a library and that is because nothing exciting happens there anymore 

Clubs that try and emulate this beware. Today, 21,000 people were bored rigid watching players endlessly recycling the ball in an attempt to emulate this turgid shite

It was probably the worst atmosphere I think I have ever experienced in 50 years of watching football at The Gate, there was literally nothing to get excited about 

At least the "dinosaur" football that I used to watch was exciting. Wingers taking on their full backs, through balls, crosses, shots, stuff that used to get you out of your seat, ALL GONE thanks to this modern brand of football which is dull as dishwater 

We've been sold the Emperor's new clothes, there is no substance to it, PlayStation is NOT REAL. When are people going to open their eyes to this game killer....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mark this down as early contender for over reaction of the year.

Will be many more candidates.

[Charlie BCFC]

1 hour ago, JoeAman08 said:

Yep ref let them play aggressively. I didn’t mind it too much but it suits them more than us for sure. He went through the back of Conway multiple times yesterday and I felt for TC a bit as not much more he can do. Would take a different type of forward to deal with that yesterday and we don’t have that in the squad. 

I normally am impressed with how well Wells deals with aggressive centre halves. Considering his height he has a high jump and holds it up fairly well, maybe something that comes with more experience in fairness. Problem is think we need to sell before we can buy a striker, Cornick isn’t suited to how Manning wants to play imo but with him just signing a new deal last January not sure what offer we’d get 

 

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

I think we have generally tended to start games well, and other managers have made tactical changes at HT to counter us.  It is then that we don't respond.  And yes, we can disagree about percentages of accountability, but I'm not absolving LM from some responsibility for that. 

Perhaps I am being too patient, but I am not sure what the alternative is?  Hound Manning? Get on the players backs so they become even less ambitious on the ball?  Right now we really need to be supporters rather than detractors.  

Despite what the hierarchy said we all know we are a number of players short of top 6.  It'll take some new signings to take us further.  Admittedly it's only been for short periods, but if we can play the way LM wants us to play with players capable of playing that way then I feel progress is possible.  

 

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I might summarise this wrong, so apologies in advance, but…

…this is the difference from Lg1 to the Championship, especially when you don’t have better players than most of the rest of the division (ie Oxford’s status in Lg1).  You have to be able to spot (first of all) how your opponents are stopping you and then come up with a solution to get around it and hope the players execute it. You can of course continue what you’re doing if you truly believe it will play out successfully.  Every game is a challenge for Bristol City.  We don’t have the strength of playing squad to play like Leicester or Saints, whose managers know that 9/10 they have the players to overcome the problems they might be posed.  I’m not saying they win 9/10, sometimes you do it all right but don’t stick the ball in the net.

I’m waiting to see what Liam Manning does in this respect.  I also don’t think there are any issues in questioning this either, doesn’t mean you’re not supportive, it’s just your inquisitive nature.

From a fans view I thought Lee Johnson was poor in game.  I don’t think Nige was great either, but he accepted what he had to an extent.

 

I think these two points probably summarise the situation quite nicely. We have started well in a lot of games (Blackburn notable exception) and then typically got worse. I’d also totally acknowledge that neither LJ (“gung ho”) or NP were perfect at in game management, but as @Davefevs says, it does become all the more important as you go up the leagues. Better managers. Better coaches. Better players. Quicker counters.

I don’t think the answer is to hound Manning or to boo the players by any stretch @Red Skin - I do however think it’s worth questioning if we’re on the right path as the progressive worsening in game is a constant. I said after Saints on here I wasn’t worried by it - I probably more am now as it seems to be regular. And you’re right in saying that it may get better when LM gets his own players, but as Dave rightly says, we’re still likely to have a flawed playing squad - so the in game management angle does become a continued problem that Liam (and it is chiefly Liam) will need to solve.

The annoyance for me is that against Watford and Hull we did play differently so he has it in him. But in the last two games (Brum a bit more by their design) he’s reverted back to his preferred style and made us less effective as a result. One of the things that was said of LM at MK Dons is that he didn’t know how to change things (NB this isn’t me saying he was sacked there so has no chance here) and that’s why he ultimately went. We’re seeing that in microsm here, and he needs to get on top of that quickly.

[Charlie BCFC]

3 hours ago, Fuber said:

Scrumps main point, to me, was the effort by clubs (and managers) attempting to emulate Guardiola as being a poor strategy, comparing it to the style yesterday, and that without tempo it means very little.

The Etihad comment is arguably wide of the mark, agreed - the PL as a whole has become more and more sterile.

The issue here is you just insulted the poster without any context. Then meaning you were criticised in turn as people thought the criticism of Scrumps post could be taken as a defence of the performance.

"Not Great" performance could still be interpreted as mediocre or OK, and it just wasn't - at least in my opinion, for clarity.

It was just very very poor against a mediocre Millwall side. Agree to disagree.

Obviously completely agree with your last two sentences and maybe my comment was a bit reactionary so apologies to @Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. . I do stand by opinion though that the style many teams have adapted hasn’t ruined football, I also think it will work and we have seen it in games under Manning. I didn’t even think in the first half we were too bad but second half is up there with one of the worst half’s I’ve seen from us at this level 

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Yep, whether the self appointed "football intelligentsia" like it or not an overwhelming number of football fans pay money to be entertained and aren't particularly interested in watching "chess style" tactical mastery unfold in front of them. In simple terms if you pay £30 for something then you expect to ENJOY it more often than not. When you go to the restaurant and your corned beef hash and baked beans tastes like shit you don't normally forgive the chef because the way it was served was pleasing on the eye......

I can't do anymore reactions today so just to say, this post pretty much nails it. 

Virtually nothing of interest happened yesterday and the lack of it pretty much killed the atmosphere stone dead

Football is all about passion and excitement, something to get you going to relieve the mundane nature of life, it NEEDS this to survive. Displays like yesterday will spell the end as a live spectator sport.

If I want chess, I'll watch or play chess. When I watch football, I want 2 teams going at each other, blood and thunder style so, win lose or draw, I have something to talk/shout about 

As for players not being brave, why is that .? We know they can be, so what is stopping them. LM is not the first manager to suggest this ..

Whilst not wishing to highlight players, I must ask what is going on with George Tanner. I rate him highly but at the moment, he looks like he will be fined a month's wages if he passes the ball forward. 

Back to you ..

[Numero Uno]

8 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Obviously completely agree with your last two sentences and maybe my comment was a bit reactionary so apologies to @Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. . I do stand by opinion though that the style many teams have adapted hasn’t ruined football, I also think it will work and we have seen it in games under Manning. I didn’t even think in the first half we were too bad but second half is up there with one of the worst half’s I’ve seen from us at this level 

Slow, patient, possession based football isn’t ruining the game BUT when it’s executed poorly is as bad as any football you will ever watch.

Edited January 2 by Numero Uno

[Wade Wilson]

I just don’t get why people try to emulate Pep’s style, at all. For starters, Man City play the most boring football I’ve ever seen. They can win 6-0 and still bore you to tears.

Secondly, Pep has never managed a team where he hasn’t had the absolute best players in the world. He’s executing his style of play with KDB and Haaland. We have Joe Williams and Conway. 
 

Just play two up top or something simple. What I hate about Pep is he’s made it fashionable to overanalyse and overthink football. You don’t need to pass it 28 times before having a shot, you can get from one end of the pitch to the other in about 6 passes. Just ******* do that. We do not have the team to play patient, passing football, just ******* pass and move it’s so simple. 

Edited January 2 by Wade Wilson

[SecretSam]

19 hours ago, Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. said:

Probably because you're too young to remember proper football...

Jumpers for goalposts...pitches like ploughed fields, one sub only, slow, lumpen football (see pitches issue), appalling tackles and dire facilities.

Ah, the good old days.

Utter bollocks.

[SecretSam]

16 hours ago, Alan Dicks said:

Modern day football is absolutely dire, it’s slow uninspiring and boring.

I don’t bother watching it these days, and that includes City unfortunately.

So...how do you know it's dire, if you don't watch?

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Jumpers for goalposts...pitches like ploughed fields, one sub only, slow, lumpen football (see pitches issue), appalling tackles and dire facilities.

Ah, the good old days.

Utter bollocks.

While pre 1992 some major issues existed as you say, otoh there was a Happy medium.

Back then, at least clubs weren't listed on foreign Stock Exchanges, owned by oligarchs, Nation States etc.

Matchday experience now is sterile, pre game..talking in the ground.

Happy medium between the 2 maybe 1990s, early 2000s. Beyond that.. 

The modern technical football when played with pace, precision and quality can be outstanding. Can be..but a half-done job can be truly soporific- see large chunks of yesterday and Norwich at home for 2.

[Sir Geoff]

8 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

Jumpers for goalposts...pitches like ploughed fields, one sub only, slow, lumpen football (see pitches issue), appalling tackles and dire facilities.

Ah, the good old days.

Utter bollocks.

Any of that I would happily swap for the sterile atmosphere and dross served up on a billiard table of a pitch, yesterday.